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23rd February 2020, 11:37 PM | #1 |
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Aus. Expert says men should have mandatory mental assessment after divorces
And maybe monitored
Bit left field nutty https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/...baxter-murder/
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23rd February 2020, 11:48 PM | #2 |
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I think men should have a mental assessment before marriage.
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24th February 2020, 12:21 AM | #3 |
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Job security for the profession. I was required to attend mandatory classes for how to mentally handle a divorce with someone I hadn't seen or talked to in a year.
They wanted me to pay for the privilege too. I was already single in life and she had a new guy. Blanket solutions to spotty problems at its best here. Not good. |
24th February 2020, 02:33 PM | #4 |
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For starters, is there any evidence Rowan Baxter would fail any such checks? If not then mental health checks would be pointless.
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24th February 2020, 02:42 PM | #5 |
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The state should probably do mental health checks and monitoring of men who -
- get fired from their job - lose their home to fire or flood - are the victim of a robbery - get turned down for a date - owe taxes at the end of the year (instead of getting a return) - lose their entire bankroll on one spin of the roulette wheel Really, the state should just put all men on psych monitoring all the time anyway. Forget the draft: On your 18th birthday you should have to register for your ankle monitor and monthly check-ups. Because you're a man. We should probably do the same for women, but they're the weaker sex, so we can save money by just letting the men deal with whatever angry women happen to cross their paths. And then give them extra treatments afterwards, of course. Because they're men. |
24th February 2020, 11:31 PM | #6 |
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What a horrible story.
The idea of requiring all men getting a divorce to undergo mandatory mental health checks is a ridiculous idea. However, something more should have been done to protect this woman and her children in this case. https://nypost.com/2020/02/23/killer...heater-family/ https://nypost.com/2020/02/20/ex-rug...parents-claim/ Difficult to say exactly what, but this guy had a restraining order. I don't see how a "mental health check" would have made any difference. (What happens if you fail this mental health check? Anything?) Short of preemptively throwing the man in prison, I don't see much that can be done. If he violated a restraining order, that might be grounds to do something, but it isn't easy to stop an enraged abuser who's out for revenge before he strikes. Should she have gone to a shelter for abused women where she could get protection? What action or policy could have prevented this? The idea in the OP wouldn't have prevented it, it would only be a completely pointless and unnecessary exercise for the vast majority of men or women going through a divorce, and probably wouldn't even make a difference in the few cases where the man really is an abuser. |
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24th February 2020, 11:44 PM | #7 |
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I think having regular mental health check-ups should be as normal as having physicals.
And of course, it should be done around the time when some damage might have occurred. The actual question is: who gets to have access to the results? |
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25th February 2020, 01:04 AM | #8 |
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Denmark enacted legislation that requires counselling for couples seeking a divorce, not just men.
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25th February 2020, 02:24 AM | #9 |
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I have to say that in the days and weeks immediately following my divorce, I would have found any intrusive and extensive questioning particularly unwelcome. I didn't welcome it from family or friends. I'm fairly sure any court-mandated counselling would not have found me a cooperative subject.
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25th February 2020, 02:41 AM | #10 |
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25th February 2020, 05:56 AM | #11 |
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25th February 2020, 06:04 AM | #12 |
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25th February 2020, 06:48 AM | #13 |
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*Couples with children. If no children are involved there's no counselling required.
Not that I approve of this legislation. The purpose is of course to try to preempt that the children get caught in a conflict between parents. This is a noble purpose but I think it's too late if it already got to the point of divorce. We also got rid of the possibility to get divorced directly without separation. Now if children are involved a 6 month separation period is mandatory. Again I think this is silly. My ex-wife and I got divorced before this legislation. 6 months of separation would no doubt have aggravated the relationship. We are doing fine now. Re the OP I'm wondering what happens if the man fails this mental assessment? Should he be thrown in jail just because? |
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26th February 2020, 04:58 PM | #14 |
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26th February 2020, 05:02 PM | #15 |
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We are should probably require that women undergo cpunswlinf the moment they get pregnant... Actually, before they get pregnant.
Probably we should round up every male once a year, and anyone who says they have a girlfriend we should track her down and make sure she's properly cared for by the Mental Health Police. --- ETA: Yes, autocorrect screwed up big time. No, I'm not going to fix it. |
26th February 2020, 05:10 PM | #16 |
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26th February 2020, 05:14 PM | #17 |
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26th February 2020, 06:04 PM | #18 |
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26th February 2020, 06:16 PM | #19 |
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Maybe it's misandric, even.
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26th February 2020, 06:50 PM | #20 |
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Again this is another one of those articles that could do with a boomer trigger warning. We see them again and again held up as nutty leftwing academic ideas in contrast to a commonsense every man thinking.
What we have in the article are people looking at a terrible tragedy, in the context of a wider domestic violence problem where on average a woman a week in Australia is murdered by a current or former partner, and examining ways to prevent this. This is an extreme problem we are dealing with. The idea that “one of the ways that this could occur is that family members, friends or colleagues who are concerned about someone's wellbeing as they transition out of a relationship could ask for help” is very reasonable in this light. But here we are again in the anti intellectual culture wars with a story of this type framed hyperbolically by/for a reactionary audience. https://www.whiteribbon.org.au/under...ce-statistics/ |
26th February 2020, 07:31 PM | #21 |
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26th February 2020, 07:41 PM | #22 |
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26th February 2020, 08:28 PM | #23 |
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I concede that you have a point. In post #6 I tried to take the issue seriously and give a thoughtful response. Others chose to make jokes about it.
The problem as I see it is that this was a murder-suicide, and those seem particularly difficult to prevent. A mere restraining order cannot deter a man willing to take his own life in order to get revenge. In cases where the man cares about his own future, and is thinking rationally, it could be an effective deterrent. I just don't think it would have made a difference in this case. The problem is that the justice system didn't respond effectively to earlier crimes by the offender. He kidnapped one of the children late last year.
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I agree that more should have been done, just not this idea that treats all men as needing an intervention. |
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26th February 2020, 08:47 PM | #24 |
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Do Domestic Violence Restraining Orders Ever Really Work? (Psychology Today)
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26th February 2020, 09:34 PM | #25 |
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26th February 2020, 09:39 PM | #26 |
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This is the issue, people need to face serious consequences for breaking Restraining Orders. Restraining Orders need to be considered a due process court order, break one and you go to jail, you go straight to jail, and you stay there until the Judge decides to let you out. They might still not work on the suicidal killer, but most of them don't get there as a first step. If they get locked up for the first offence of breaking the court order, then it might never get to the point of a murder/suicide.
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26th February 2020, 09:52 PM | #27 |
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As a divorce attorney, this is absolutely nuts.
First of all, many couples who divorce have actually been separated for some time (even those living in the same house and sharing the same bed). Second of all, it's sexist. Men running away from an alcoholic probably number the same as women leaving a similar substance abuser - the same for adultery. And the sexism doesn't end there. What about homosexual marriages? Forcing a divorcing couple to seek counseling together, something that's floated about occasionally, will mean putting one spouse in a room with his/her abuser. It will give that abuser one more chance to exploit that power dynamic. The only time that divorcing spouses should be given mental health counseling, together or independently, is to help them co-parent children - and that's only if the relationship did not involve abuse and if they each agree to it voluntarily. I've seen couples who I absolutely thought would fight to the death over a paperclip come out of such voluntary programs and be respectful and communicative in a way that let them each keep good, strong relationships with their children. I do agree with the liberal granting of orders of protection including taking away a significant other's firearms and placing an automatic hold if they try to acquire one. Those cases should move swiftly through the justice system so that the spouse under order has a fast lane to have his/her rights restored. |
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27th February 2020, 02:14 AM | #28 |
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27th February 2020, 05:34 AM | #29 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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27th February 2020, 06:32 AM | #30 |
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27th February 2020, 07:42 AM | #31 |
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In 2017 there were 40,032 divorces in Australia (https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/blog...australia.html) This, with my dodgy maths and accepting your 52 women a year statistic above give a rate of just under 0.0013% Would you consider the inconvenience and the expense worth it at that rate? |
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27th February 2020, 09:51 AM | #32 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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27th February 2020, 10:30 AM | #34 |
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Is this because women don't kill their kids? Or, in this current War on Men, do we just pretend it doesn't happen?
The hypocrisy and double standards are astounding. And because I believe in mens rights, I think every child born in the west should have a paternity test to see who the father REALLY is. Funny how the media doesn't dare bring up what all the DNA/genetic testing companies already know. |
27th February 2020, 10:41 AM | #35 |
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I agree. This should happen.
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27th February 2020, 10:51 AM | #36 |
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It's explicitly not a tu quoque. A tu quoque would be absurd. Just like the proposal as such is absurd. It's a bigoted, sexist stereotype, like saying women shouldn't be president because of PMS.
If you see my reductio as absurd and offensive, then you're halfway to understanding why the original serious proposal is also absurd and offensive. |
27th February 2020, 10:54 AM | #37 |
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It doesn't result in misogyny. It rejects misanthropy on the same grounds that we reject misogyny.
You're basically making the Schroedinger's Rapist argument. Except instead of making it as a guideline for how women should protect themselves around men, you're making it to justify government-mandated medical treatments. Because #notallmenbutwhyriskit |
27th February 2020, 11:08 AM | #38 |
I would save the receptionist.
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In the only case in my career where children were murdered, it was the wife who asphyxiated herself with her two children in her car. I had one case where the man murdered the wife (after she let an order of protection expire). I had two where the man committed suicide. But these were the vast minority of my 17 year caseload. |
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27th February 2020, 12:06 PM | #39 |
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27th February 2020, 12:07 PM | #40 |
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