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Tags Coronavirus , Sweden incidents , Sweden issues

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Old 7th September 2020, 11:58 AM   #2041
dann
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Look at all that has been said and what has been written even in this thread. And what do we have to show for it? A cure? No. An established preventative method? No.

Oh man, what a disappointment! Here we were, posting day after day in the Let's-find-a-cure-for-Covid-19 thread, and now you tell us that we didn't succeed, we didn't find the cure!
Life is so unfair!

In the meantime, back to the Sweden's-liberal-pandemic-strategy-questioned-as-Stockholm-death-toll-mounts thread:

Monday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Sep. 6, 2020)
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
[Sweden: 577 (5,837) 573* 13 *according to SVT.se.
Denmark: 108 (628) 230 3
Finland: 61 (336) 36 1
Norway: 49 (264) 74 1
Iceland: 29 (10) 5 0
Iceland has 81 active cases, Faroe Islands 4, New Zealand 118.
The Faroe Islands have 7 in quarantine, 1 hospitalized, and all tests from yesterday analyzed.
Only four active Covid cases - Infected Russian sailors are no longer included in the Faroese Covid statistics (KVF.fo, Sep. 7, 2020)


Nye restriktioner i 18 kommuner: Forsamlingsforbud sænkes fra 100 til 50 (DR.dk, Sep. 7, 2020)
New restrictions in 18 municipalities: the size of crowds lowered from 100 to 50 17 of those municipalities are in the Copenhagen region. And the opening hours of bars will be 12:00 midnight instead of 2:00. People are encouraged to postpone private parties. At one private birthday party, 30 participants got infected.

Minister bekymret – borgmester har indkaldt kriseledelse (TV2.dk, Sep. 7, 2020)
Minister worried – mayor (of Copenhagen) calls in crisis management group Young people are encounraged to stop going to pirate parties, avoid yelling at each other up close and avoid hugging.

Yderligere tre minkfarme ramt af coronavirus (TV2.dk, Sep. 7, 2020 – 14:59)
Three more mink farms infected with coronavirus All three in the same area (Hjørring) as the ones reported earlier

Quote:
Av 100 000 norrmän har 1,4 smittade registrerats varje dag under de senaste sju dagarna – i Sverige är samma siffra 1,1 per 100 000 invånare. Detta skriver NRK om idag.
Coronan ökar snabbare i Norge än i Sverige (SVT.se, Sep. 7, 2020)
Of 100,000 Norwegians, 1.4 infections were registered daily in the last seven days – in Sweden, the same number is 1.1 of 100,000. According to NRK.no today.
The coronavirus increases faster in Norway than in Sweden - However, the Swedish article doesn’t mention that Norway’s slightly higher number ”kan blant anna skuldast at vi testar meir enn før” = ’among other things may be due to the fact that we (= Norway) are testing more now.’
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 7th September 2020 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 7th September 2020, 12:10 PM   #2042
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The equivalent number in Scotland is 2.8. I'm not comfortable with this at all.

They've banned people from visiting other people's houses in Glasgow, Renfrewshire and Dunbartonshire, but hospitality venues are still open. If it were actually possible to ensure that hospitality venues obeyed the distancing regulations and this was properly enforced this might not be too bad, but the rumour mill says that isn't the case.
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Old 7th September 2020, 10:35 PM   #2043
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All that we are doing (all that we dan do) is copy and paste what some media source has said or has quoted from some other source. That’s all there is and in nearly all world-event cases that’s all there ever is. That’s fine. That’s danndy. No one can blame us for that because we are naturally interested in what is happening in our world and how it affects us.

As I say, no one can blame us for that. We can, however, be blamed for treating the media news info as an up-to-date pinnacle of knowledge that supersedes all the info that was reported previously. “Today we know more than yesterday” is a fool’s crutch because we know very little. It’s all guess-work and mark my words that if (hopefully ‘when’) the whole coronavirus is sorted out and beaten we will then get all the ‘expert’ explanations about how we were wrong about this and that. So, grand-standing and playing it up as though you (we) are a quick-step authority whose pseudo knowledge is gleaned from the daily media rumours is well ….. untrustworthy.

Sweden has its theories as does every other nation. Whose theory is best … is still up for grabs and there are several factors that mere mortals employ in the appraisal shell game. Some of it is cultural and a whole lot of it is based upon political partiality and even “neighbour hating”, as one very astute fellow member describes it. “Sweden's liberal pandemic strategy” (the title of this thread, believe it or not!) has yet to be either officially condemned or vindicated. That is where we were at the beginning of this thread and that is where we are still today. All of the discussing and debating and arguing is a lot of fun but we haven’t progressed an inch into the discerning validy of “Sweden’s liberal pandemic strategy”.

Carry on.
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Old 8th September 2020, 01:45 AM   #2044
dann
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Just the day before yesterday you were cocky enough to make it a question of "simple math skills" when interpreting the numbers coming out of Belarus, but as soon as it becomes obvious how absurd those numbers are, you resort to Tegnell's excuse: 'We can't know anything.'
The poster who presented those Belarus numbers remains as "astute" as you think you are. You have contributed with nothing but obfuscation to this thread.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th September 2020, 01:57 AM   #2045
dann
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The equivalent number in Scotland is 2.8. I'm not comfortable with this at all.

They've banned people from visiting other people's houses in Glasgow, Renfrewshire and Dunbartonshire, but hospitality venues are still open. If it were actually possible to ensure that hospitality venues obeyed the distancing regulations and this was properly enforced this might not be too bad, but the rumour mill says that isn't the case.

That is what is so infuriating about this approach: You don't go to a bar to practice social distancing, obviously. If the problem is that the owners of bars can't pay their bills, then find a way to pay those bills for them to enable them to stay closed. Considering the disease that they help spread, I can't imagine that it won't be cheaper than paying the hospital bills.
Winter is coming ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th September 2020, 03:06 AM   #2046
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I don't know why the politicians don't see this.

I'm pretty much resigned to staying isolated until the vaccine is available. Which I always thought woud be spring or summer next year, based on my experiences with similar situations in veterinary disease control.
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Old 8th September 2020, 08:49 AM   #2047
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I stay away from bars, cinemas, concerts and all kinds of indoor parties with more than 10 participants. It really bugs me that I have had to give up salsa, except for outdoor salsa suelta (= without a partner). I could do with the exercise. After this month, I don't think it will be possible till May unless the vaccine gets here much earlier than expected.

Tuesday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Sep. 7, 2020)
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
[Sweden: 577 (5,838) 149* 13 *according to SVT.se.
Denmark: 108 (628) 243 2
Finland: 61 (336) 10 1
Norway: 49 (264) 39 1
Iceland: 29 (10) 0 0
Iceland has 76 active cases, Faroe Islands 5, New Zealand 123.
The Faroe Islands have 7 in quarantine, 1 hospitalized, and all tests from yesterday analyzed. They seem to have managed to hammer it down again without any fatalities.
Hospitals open to visitors again: Masks no longer a requirement (KVF.fo, Sep. 8, 2020)

Vanskelig å sammenligne Norge og Sverige - Selv om koronasmitten i Norge nå øker mer enn i Sverige, dør det fremdeles folk daglig av korona i nabolandet vårt. (NRK.no, Sep. 7, 2020)
It’s difficult to compare Norway and Sweden – Even though the number of cases is increasing more in Norway than in Sweden, people still die every day in our neighbouring country

Smitteøkning flere steder – Norge er «rødt» (NRK.no, Sep. 8, 2020)
Increase in infections in many places – Norway is ”red”

Kontakttal stiger fra 0,9 til 1,5 (TV2.dk, Sep. 8, 2020)
The R0 goes from 0.9 to 1.5
- Wherever possible, companies and local government offices are letting people work from home again. Every day there are reports of schools and universities sending home students and staff.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 8th September 2020 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 8th September 2020, 09:29 AM   #2048
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I'm still thinking about a visit to the cinema, but it's unusual to find more than ten people in one screen at the 14-screen cinema complex and the space is pretty large. I can also wear a respirator mask if I'm at all concerned. However, people tend mainly to sit quietly in a cinema and that isn't superspreader behaviour.
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Old 8th September 2020, 10:29 AM   #2049
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I haven't yet seen cinemas mentioned in the context of super-spreader events. I went twice in the week before the lockdown in March to watch Jojo Rabbit and Parasite when there were probably more cases than there are now and nobody wore face masks, but in a discussion with my friends who recently feared that they had caught the infection at a wedding, we agreed that it isn't really worth the anxiety that you may feel after events like that.
So far, I haven't felt any anxiety at all, but I've also mostly avoided risky behavior. And I haven't heard about any films yet that I can't wait to watch until they are streamed or released on DVD.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th September 2020, 10:31 AM   #2050
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7 procent på Stockholms äldreboenden har dött i covid-19 (DagensNyheter.se, Sep. 8, 2020)
7 percent in Stockholm's old people's homes have died from Covid-19

Editorial:
Quote:
Har Sverige gått från skräckexempel till förebild i coronabekämpningen? Inte för den som studerar dödssiffrorna.
Nej, den svenska coronastrategin har inte plötsligt blivit en världssucces (DagensNyheter.se, Sep. 7, 2020)
Did Sweden go from being a dire warning to the world to becoming a role model in the struggle against corona? Not to people who study the death toll.
No, the Swedish corona strategy didn’t suddenly turn into a world success
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 9th September 2020, 11:54 AM   #2051
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Wedesday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Sep. 9, 2020)
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
[Sweden: 578 (5,842) 173* 13 *according to SVT.se.
Denmark: 108 (628) 251 5
Finland: 61 (337) 93 1
Norway: 49 (264) 61 1
Iceland: 29 (10) 3 0
Iceland has 76 active cases, Faroe Islands 5, New Zealand 125.
The Faroe Islands have 7 in quarantine, 1 hospitalized, and all tests from yesterday analyzed.


Quote:
Detta som en protest mot att regeringen vill se ett högskoleprov i höst, trots det osäkra smittoläget. UHR och de lärosäten som anordnar provet står bakom bedömningen att det inte kan genomföras på ett säkert sätt
Karin Röding säger till tidningen att politikerna inte följt principen att lyssna till expertmyndigheterna i frågan om provet kan genomföras på ett smittsäkert sätt.
UHR:s generaldirektör Karin Röding avgår (SVT.se, Sep. 9, 2020)
In protest against the government wanting to have a university entrance exam this autumn, despite the uncertain Covid-19 infection situation. UHR (the agency in charge of universities and colleges) and the institutions of higher education organizing the exams are behind the assessment that it can not be carried out safely.
Karin Röding tells the newspaper that the politicians did not follow the principle of listening to the expert authorities on the question of whether the test can be carried out in a manner that doesn't expose people to infections.
UHR's Director General Karin Röding resigns

Nye tall: Hele Danmark kan bli rødt (VG.no, Sep. 9, 2020)
New numbers: All of Denmark may become red - As the map shows, that was actually what happened today. Due to the number of new cases, Denmark has gone all red, i.e. 10 days of quarantine now required when Danes go to Norway. This goes for most of Europe, major parts of Sweden and two regions in Finland.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 10th September 2020, 04:03 AM   #2052
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Despite initial criticism of “Sweden's liberal pandemic strategy” its strategy is being more and more praised and/or tolerated by the world. Quite apparently the pandemic remedy is subject to the “Less is more” theory. I’m not very surprised. It is common knowledge that the more one raves on about anything the greater the likelihood of bullcrappy infiltrating the facts of the subject.

It's the end of the world! Again!
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Old 10th September 2020, 04:58 AM   #2053
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Despite initial criticism of “Sweden's liberal pandemic strategy” its strategy is being more and more praised and/or tolerated by the world.
Interesting to hear that the Swedish strategy is being praised, but could you bring some quotes ... or is it just nazis and other covidiots that is doing the praising?
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Old 10th September 2020, 06:04 AM   #2054
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
Interesting to hear that the Swedish strategy is being praised, but could you bring some quotes ... or is it just nazis and other covidiots that is doing the praising?
As Dagens Nyheter told us the day before yesterday:
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Editorial:
Quote:
Har Sverige gått från skräckexempel till förebild i coronabekämpningen? Inte för den som studerar dödssiffrorna.
Nej, den svenska coronastrategin har inte plötsligt blivit en världssucces (DagensNyheter.se, Sep. 7, 2020)
Did Sweden go from being a dire warning to the world to becoming a role model in the struggle against corona? Not to people who study the death toll.
No, the Swedish corona strategy didn’t suddenly turn into a world success

And Nazis are not the only ones praising the Swedish strategy, unfortunately. Sweden is an inspiration to politicians in all countries that adopted a similar strategy, England*, for instance. And Anders Tegnell is doing his utmost to make the Swedish (= his) strategy appear to be a success story. The Swedish Public Health Agency's press briefing ended less than an hour ago:

Folkhälsomyndigheten om coronaläget: Anders Tegnell (9:53 -->): ”Greece, another country with many Swedish tourists, which had a very moderate spread in the beginning, has now had a rather massive spread lately as we can see, with quite a lot of deaths.”
When Sweden had the same number of deaths per week it was considered a big success!

I guess that in the middle of the apparently alarming numbers, there’s no reason to mention that Greece, a country with a population the size of Sweden, so far has had 293 deaths (the graph behind Tegnell has the number 290, which most people watching the press briefing won't notice), Sweden has had 5,843.

The per-capita death toll of Greece is only 28 per million, slightly better than Iceland’s 29 and much better than Norway’s 49, Finland’s 61, Denmark’s 109 or Sweden’s 578.


ETA: *Brittiska vändningen om svenska taktiken (Expressen.se, Aug. 22, 2020)
The article is followed by links to articles about similar (alleged) turnarounds in other countries.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 10th September 2020 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 10th September 2020, 07:09 AM   #2055
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Denying knowledge of praise for Sweden’s strategy against the Coronavirus is dishonest It really is. We know nothing and that is why the reports fluctuate so greatly. One day we know something and the next day we don’t. What was true yesterday is proven false today. Knowing that we were wrong yesterday means, in essence, that we know less today than we did thenn .... and the same will be said tomorrow. Too much is mere speculation – most of it crap – so we plod along following the media that knows less than we do and quoting out-of-context and misleading statistics that are spun and tweaked for each political agenda.

If it's the end of the world then I'm going to drink beer and eat chocolate and enjoy the last days, weeks, months, or years. I've seen enough BS in the past 73 years and I'm not going to let this one dampen my joy. Everyone else can do what they like and I don't care. When the experts finally figure it out I'll know about it just the same and we can all laugh about the hysteria their media-bourne mistakes have caused.

"I see skies of blue and clouds of white
The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night
And I think to myself what a wonderful world"
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Old 10th September 2020, 07:19 AM   #2056
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Denying knowledge of praise for Sweden’s strategy against the Coronavirus is dishonest It really is. We know nothing and that is why the reports fluctuate so greatly. One day we know something and the next day we don’t. What was true yesterday is proven false today. Knowing that we were wrong yesterday means, in essence, that we know less today than we did thenn .... and the same will be said tomorrow. Too much is mere speculation – most of it crap – so we plod along following the media that knows less than we do and quoting out-of-context and misleading statistics that are spun and tweaked for each political agenda.

If it's the end of the world then I'm going to drink beer and eat chocolate and enjoy the last days, weeks, months, or years. I've seen enough BS in the past 73 years and I'm not going to let this one dampen my joy. Everyone else can do what they like and I don't care. When the experts finally figure it out I'll know about it just the same and we can all laugh about the hysteria their media-bourne mistakes have caused.

"I see skies of blue and clouds of white
The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night
And I think to myself what a wonderful world"
Anyone praising Sweden for enabling 6000 covid deaths in a small country is an idiot.
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Old 10th September 2020, 12:01 PM   #2057
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It has actually come to this! The comparison with Belgium's 9,917 Covid-19 deaths is no longer enough to make Sweden's 6,000 seem negligible.


Thursday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Sep. 10, 2020)
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
[Sweden: 578 (5,843) 314* 13 *according to SVT.se.
Denmark: 109 (629) 317 5
Finland: 61 (337) 39 1
Norway: 49 (265) 55 1
Iceland: 29 (10) 4 0
Iceland has 75 active cases, Faroe Islands 5, New Zealand 120.
The Faroe Islands have 7 in quarantine, 1 hospitalized, and all tests from yesterday analyzed.

Expert: Vi har været for længe om at lukke ned igen (DR.dk, Sep. 10, 2020)
Expert: It took us too long to lock down again

The Norwegians are much faster after cases have been increasing for two weeks:
Solberg (PM): Närmaste dagarna avgörande för Norge (DagenNyheter.se, Sep. 10, 2020)
The next days are crucial for Norway
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 10th September 2020, 02:11 PM   #2058
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 11.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Reply to off topic post


How about this:

Sweden population 10m, covid deaths 6000
Australia population 25m, covid deaths 800

Care to comment?
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Last edited by zooterkin; 11th September 2020 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 10th September 2020, 10:18 PM   #2059
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Anyone praising Sweden for enabling 6000 covid deaths in a small country is an idiot.
Utterly off topic.


Originally Posted by lionking View Post
How about this:
Sweden population 10m, covid deaths 6000
Australia population 25m, covid deaths 800

Care to comment?
Yes. We know nothing and that is why the reports fluctuate so greatly. One day we know something and the next day we don’t. What was true yesterday is proven false today. Knowing that we were wrong yesterday means, in essence, that we know less today than we did thenn .... and the same will be said tomorrow. Too much is mere speculation – most of it crap – so we plod along following the media that knows less than we do and quoting out-of-context and misleading statistics that are spun and tweaked for each political agenda. But there must be an echo here because I'm sure I said this before. Perhaps you missed it.

Would you care to comment on that?
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Old 11th September 2020, 03:23 AM   #2060
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You argue like a woo claiming that some day science will prove astrology right because science has been known to be wrong before.

Lionking provides you with something that we know:

"Sweden population 10m, covid deaths 6000
Australia population 25m, covid deaths 800"


And you pretend that we don't know anything, which is wrong, and your claim that "Knowing that we were wrong yesterday means, in essence, that we know less today than we did thenn .... and the same will be said tomorrow," is utterly absurd: Knowing that you were wrong about something is still knowledge, often very useful knowledge, actually.

You fluctuate between arrogant claims that we are all wrong and denial of the possibility of any and all knowledge when your errors are pointed out to you. That your own statistics are misleading doesn't mean that all statistics are misleading. That you and Childlike Empress have a problem with very simple math doesn't mean that the rest of us do, too.
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Old 11th September 2020, 03:33 AM   #2061
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Meanwhile a flagrant and very sick disbeliever weighs in, note Anders Tegnall now dons virginal white garb as the deification moves apace.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/new...ectid=12364015
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Old 11th September 2020, 05:20 AM   #2062
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Utterly off topic.




Yes. We know nothing and that is why the reports fluctuate so greatly. One day we know something and the next day we don’t. What was true yesterday is proven false today. Knowing that we were wrong yesterday means, in essence, that we know less today than we did thenn .... and the same will be said tomorrow. Too much is mere speculation – most of it crap – so we plod along following the media that knows less than we do and quoting out-of-context and misleading statistics that are spun and tweaked for each political agenda. But there must be an echo here because I'm sure I said this before. Perhaps you missed it.

Would you care to comment on that?
Yes. Australia locked down when the virus hit and places with, by international standards, very low infection rates are still locked down, like Victoria with 6 million people and 40 or so infections a day. Sweden didn't.

Open your eyes. The Swedish government made disastrous decisions and the country is still suffering. Places like New Zealand and Australia made prudent decisions and can look to the future with optimism.

And despite what you assert, we do know what works. Some stupid countries (not only Sweden) made atrocious decisions.
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Old 11th September 2020, 05:54 AM   #2063
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Gosh! All of this "Cry wolf!" and yet each match of the 2020 European Women's Handball Championship will be played with a minimum of 500 spectators in Denmark. Maybe the Danish haven't been told about the Coronavirus? Golly! Let's hope they have a cavalcade of ambulances at the ready!

https://www.vk.se/2020-09-10/klartec...-em-med-publik

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Old 11th September 2020, 06:04 AM   #2064
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Gosh! All of this "Cry wolf!" and yet each match of the 2020 European Women's Handball Championship will be played with a minimum of 500 spectators in Denmark. Maybe the Danish haven't been told about the Coronavirus? Golly! Let's hope they have a cavalcade of ambulances at the ready!

https://www.vk.se/2020-09-10/klartec...-em-med-publik

Yeah, people using masks and distance to try to get back to normal, what are they thinking

If only they asked some random person on the web, they would know the truth.
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Old 11th September 2020, 06:14 AM   #2065
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Yeah, people using masks and distance to try to get back to normal, what are they thinking
Dreadful isn't it.

Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
If only they asked some random person on the web, they would know the truth.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. There are a couple of guys here on this very thread who know more about it than all of the experts just by reading the interpretation of the experts by the media. I guess it's like a snowball. You know ... a bit of knowledge seeps out of the soup can and once the media gets hold of it and adds their spin and tweak before you know it, presto ... it can fill a barrel.
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Old 11th September 2020, 06:22 AM   #2066
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Dreadful isn't it.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. There are a couple of guys here on this very thread who know more about it than all of the experts just by reading the interpretation of the experts by the media. I guess it's like a snowball. You know ... a bit of knowledge seeps out of the soup can and once the media gets hold of it and adds their spin and tweak before you know it, presto ... it can fill a barrel.
Riiight.

None of this waffle hides the fact that Sweden ****** up royally. The figures speak for themselves.
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Old 11th September 2020, 06:27 AM   #2067
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Dreadful isn't it.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. There are a couple of guys here on this very thread who know more about it than all of the experts just by reading the interpretation of the experts by the media. I guess it's like a snowball. You know ... a bit of knowledge seeps out of the soup can and once the media gets hold of it and adds their spin and tweak before you know it, presto ... it can fill a barrel.
Yeah, it is hilarious.
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Old 11th September 2020, 06:34 AM   #2068
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Lightbulb

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
None of this waffle hides the fact that Sweden ****** up royally.
... and where is this "fact"? I mean seriously if it's an undisputed "fact" then the world really needs to know about it. Oh! I see! You want us to take YOUR word for it. Yeah, I get it.



Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The figures speak for themselves.
No doubt, but they speak TO YOU. I mean the figures that YOU believe, ignoring all the rest as well as the in/and out of context figures. That's wonderful! I am so impressed that from now on I won't read anything on the subject unless YOU sanction the info within.
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Old 11th September 2020, 06:37 AM   #2069
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Yeah, it is hilarious.
Let us appreciate our ability to see the humour. Just think of those who are hiding beneath their beds taking these guys seriously.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:03 AM   #2070
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
... and where is this "fact"? I mean seriously if it's an undisputed "fact" then the world really needs to know about it. Oh! I see! You want us to take YOUR word for it. Yeah, I get it.




No doubt, but they speak TO YOU. I mean the figures that YOU believe, ignoring all the rest as well as the in/and out of context figures. That's wonderful! I am so impressed that from now on I won't read anything on the subject unless YOU sanction the info within.
Oh my goodness.

Like it or not we have an almost perfect controlled experiment going on here. We can look at a range of first world democracies with good health, education, political, media, nutrition and communication systems. Not much difference between, for example, Australia and Sweden. Agreed?

And then we can look at government action.

When it comes to response to covid, the variable is one country locked down and the other did not. You are welcome to make up, er propose other variables like, oh I don’t know, existence of marsupials or something, but the two countries compare very well.

The results? And these are not my figures at all, and you know it.

Sweden, population 10m, covid deaths 6000
Australia, population 25m, covid deaths 800.

Unarguable. Sweden ****** up.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:06 AM   #2071
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Let us appreciate our ability to see the humour. Just think of those who are hiding beneath their beds taking these guys seriously.
This is getting weird. You realize that I am not agreeing with your ramblings, right? right?
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Old 11th September 2020, 08:01 AM   #2072
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Like it or not we have an almost perfect controlled experiment going on here.
Like it or not? Oh, I would like it but it's not true.
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Old 11th September 2020, 08:54 AM   #2073
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
This is getting weird. You realize that I am not agreeing with your ramblings, right? right?
What does your assessment tell you?
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Old 11th September 2020, 08:58 AM   #2074
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
What does your assessment tell you?
You could just answer the question...
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Old 11th September 2020, 09:44 AM   #2075
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Meanwhile a flagrant and very sick disbeliever weighs in, note Anders Tegnall now dons virginal white garb as the deification moves apace.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/new...ectid=12364015

Very interesting article, Samson - mainly based on an interview with a retired "epidemiologist," ... "former public health researcher from the University of Queensland who has called Sweden home for 20 years."

Quote:
"In Sweden it's estimated there are over 150,000 people who have been ill with Covid-19 symptoms now for more than 10 weeks. I am one of them. For many weeks I had blood oxygen levels that under normal circumstances would trigger a clinical assessment of supplemental oxygen."
When he first became ill, the advice from doctors was to stay away.
"Having suspected I had Covid-19, I was told not to even go to the doctor for fear of infecting health staff," he says.
Steadson says what is perhaps even more concerning is the portrayal of the virus in Sweden's media.
"Media outlets seem more concerned with protecting Sweden's image than they do in reporting the facts, and challenging the authorities over some of the frankly outrageous statements they make is left almost entirely to foreign journalists," he says.
The deliberate ignorance sits heavy on his chest, like the virus he has been fighting since March.
Some days it feels like "someone is strangling me", he says. He stays awake until the small hours of the morning when his body is finally "too exhausted to stay awake".

Swedish consensus culture endangers your health!
The number of 'long-haulers' is staggering when you consider Sweden's number of registered cases, 86,505, but it's no wonder when even people who were seriously ill from Covid-19 sometimes weren't tested.

However, I think the journalist got this wrong:

Quote:
In the past week just 1.3 per cent of tests showed Covid-19 cases, compared to more than 19 per cent at the pandemic's peak. The number is lower than in neighbouring Norway and Denmark.

I think that the percentage of positive tests in Denmark after the massive rise in cases in the recent two weeks is now approaching Sweden's 1.3 percent. (I failed to find the most recent number.) For the past few months, it was much lower.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 11th September 2020, 09:48 AM   #2076
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
You could just answer the question...

It's a waste of time expecting anything useful from him. At least Gavin tried to come up with facts to support his claims.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 11th September 2020, 09:51 AM   #2077
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Friday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Sep. 11, 2020)
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
Sweden: 578 (5,846) 311* 13 *according to SVT.se.
Denmark: 109 (629) 292 7
Finland: 61 (337) 43 1
Norway: 49 (265) 58 1
Iceland: 29 (10) 4 0
Iceland has 72 active cases, Faroe Islands 6, New Zealand 114.
The Faroe Islands have 7 in quarantine, 1 hospitalized, and all tests from yesterday analyzed.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 11th September 2020, 09:57 AM   #2078
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
You could just answer the question...
You must have an opinion, yes? Yes?
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Old 11th September 2020, 11:53 AM   #2079
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
... and where is this "fact"? I mean seriously if it's an undisputed "fact" then the world really needs to know about it. Oh! I see! You want us to take YOUR word for it. Yeah, I get it.
FTFY
Quote:
...I am so impressed that from now on I won't read anything on the subject unless YOU sanction the info within.
Wise choice.
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Old 11th September 2020, 12:19 PM   #2080
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
FTFY
SIFLUYAS

Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Wise choice.
Yes, I think so too.
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