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Tags Coronavirus , Sweden incidents , Sweden issues

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Old 11th October 2020, 03:19 PM   #2441
Samson
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This is an intriguing article. it may be argued New Zealand is the exception that proves the rule, UP TO NOW. Or did the initial lockdowns allow a steep learning curve in treatment?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/cov...LCITIMKOYXLRU/
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Old 11th October 2020, 03:53 PM   #2442
banquetbear
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
This is an intriguing article. it may be argued New Zealand is the exception that proves the rule, UP TO NOW. Or did the initial lockdowns allow a steep learning curve in treatment?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/cov...LCITIMKOYXLRU/
...there is no backflip. The Herald is doing as the Herald tends to do: twist what was said to provide a catchy headline. The byline goes to News Corp. Its Murdoch propaganda.

For context:

Originally Posted by Dr Jin Russell
If you’ve read a piece in @nzherald today about the WHO stance on lockdowns, and wonder if this is relevant for NZ - then read this piece alongside. The Herald really needs to select articles that provide better info for NZ, our lockdown was used to good effect as recommended.

People help read the Herald piece might be falsely led to think that the WHO is chastising countries like NZ for lockdowns - that isn’t the case. WHO has praised NZ’s response, BECAUSE we test, trace, isolate, distance and mask (when needed) and have successfully contained...

The virus, multiple times, and in the last Auckland cluster - at a lower alert level. Lockdowns are our “last resort”, we are using them exactly as WHO advises. So don’t be fooled by Herald piece (biased selection), *this* is the point:

What is happening elsewhere (eg UK) is being described as “continual lockdown” - because overseas there are chronic restrictions on daily life, and lockdowns considered without getting the basics (test/trace) right. The WHO is saying “don’t use lockdowns like this” - absolutely.

My worry is not for people reading this thread - it is for the people at home reading their print @nzherald, stoking a vague sense of dissatisfaction with our Covid response, fostering a resolve to never lockdown again even if hospitals overwhelmed. That’s dangerous. /end
https://twitter.com/DrJinRussell/sta...88437151662080

This Guardian article provides more nuance.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e_iOSApp_Other
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Old 11th October 2020, 07:43 PM   #2443
Clutch Cargo
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Exclamation

LATEST UPDATE. according to WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19),
Data last updated: 2020/10/11, 2:45pm CEST

Newly reported cases in the last 24 hours:

U.S. 57,828
Australia 15
Sweden 0
Denmark 444
New Zealand 1

As is clear by the statistics only Sweden has “eliminated” the virus although New Zealand is doing its best to catch up. But don’t worry, New Zealand has “eliminated” the virus (if you believe that fairy tale) almost as often as Sweden has so it’s only a matter of time before New Zealand can hold its head up high alongside Sweden.

The big loser is Denmark, once again, and I’m beginning to suspect they’d be better off (certainly no worse) if they follow Sweden’s strategy. In the end …. they’ll have to. All smiles aside Denmark really is no better off than Sweden …. for better or for worse. And that is a stone cold fact.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I have been a sceptic of all the statistics because I find them to be political fiddles/propaganda. However, I have come under criticism for my scepticism (on a discussion forum entitled “international skeptics!” Can you believe that?!) so in order to appease my antagonists I am faithfully and ever so accurately providing the statistics on a daily basis. But as I was saying earlier, the majority of readers are selective in what they believe – or WANT to believe. I see there are those who rely on SVT’s reports (notoriously biased on political matters) and ignore the ones from WHO (calling it "lies") and then there are the people who slander the Herald (calling it “propaganda”) in favour of some other propaganda. I do realize that all the reports from all of the sources cannot all be “right” but this habit of rejecting one source out-of-hand yet bowing in solemn admiration for another is simply put, ‘selective ignorance’.
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Old 11th October 2020, 09:13 PM   #2444
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You are joking, right?
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Old 11th October 2020, 09:32 PM   #2445
banquetbear
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
You are joking, right?
...LATEST UPDATE.

No, they are not.
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Old 11th October 2020, 11:33 PM   #2446
dann
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
You are joking, right?

It must be true! I mean, look at the font size!
Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
And that is a stone cold fact.

The more obvious it gets that Sweden has no herd immunity, the more the fonts will grow!
What better way to spend your time at 04:43 AM.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 11th October 2020 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 12th October 2020, 12:08 AM   #2447
dann
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New cases on the increase in Stockholm for a couple of weeks, so ...
Stureplan nattklubbar öppnar igen (SVT.se, Oct. 10, 2020)
Stureplan nightclubs reopening

Quote:
Smittspridningen har ökat i Stockholm de senaste dagarna. Enligt Region Stockholm har 855 nya fall av covid-19 konstaterats under de senaste tre dagarna, jämfört med 622 fall samma period veckan innan.
Nattklubbarna öppnar – tvivel på att restriktionerna kan hållas (Aftonbladet.se, Oct. 10, 2020)
The spread of the virus has increased in Stockholm in recent days. According to Region Stockholm, 855 new cases of Covid-19 were registered in the recent three days, in comparison to 622 the week before.
Nightclubs are reopening – doubt that the restrictions can be obeyed
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 12th October 2020, 12:31 AM   #2448
dann
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...there is no backflip. The Herald is doing as the Herald tends to do: twist what was said to provide a catchy headline. The byline goes to News Corp. Its Murdoch propaganda.

For context:

https://twitter.com/DrJinRussell/sta...88437151662080

This Guardian article provides more nuance.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e_iOSApp_Other

The Guardian article is great:

Quote:
During the summer, the UK appeared to have crushed the curve and brought its R number under control. But rather than replacing harsh lockdown measures with a functioning testing and tracing strategy, switching from quarantining the population to only quarantining those who had been exposed to the virus, the UK lifted restrictions without an effective fallback.
(...)
For the government, the purpose of lockdown seemed to be simply that: lock the country down and hope the problem would go away. But lockdown itself doesn’t fundamentally change the virus or its trajectory. It just buys us time. And as time went on, fatigue and anger set in. People started to equate suppressing the virus with staying at home and shutting businesses. The alarm bells began to ring: could the cost of these measures be higher than the toll of the virus itself? Should the lives of millions be constrained just to prevent the deaths of thousands?
It’s no surprise that those offering easy, compelling solutions – “You can have your life back by Christmas”; “It’s either the economy or health”; “This virus is practically harmless to those under 55” – have found a willing audience in a frustrated and fatigued society. Many of these arguments can be grouped together under terms such as “herd immunity”, “focused protection” or “shielding the vulnerable”.

Unfortunately, the highlighted facts seem to be too difficult for most politicians and ordinary people to understand, which makes it damn easy for people dealing in obfuscation to confuse them.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 12th October 2020, 12:59 AM   #2449
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
You are joking, right?
CC is pretty much in his own thread. He doesn't read any of the other posts and so constantly misses the fact that Sweden is reporting its numbers about 12 hours late and is actually having hundreds of cases a day. Nor does he take in that in several countries, such as here in NZ, the only cases we are having are in our managed isolation centres and not within the population itself.

The problem is that these facts absolutely destroy his wishful thinking that Sweden is somehow ahead of the game, so he just flat out ignores it.
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Old 12th October 2020, 02:06 AM   #2450
Samson
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
CC is pretty much in his own thread. He doesn't read any of the other posts and so constantly misses the fact that Sweden is reporting its numbers about 12 hours late and is actually having hundreds of cases a day. Nor does he take in that in several countries, such as here in NZ, the only cases we are having are in our managed isolation centres and not within the population itself.

The problem is that these facts absolutely destroy his wishful thinking that Sweden is somehow ahead of the game, so he just flat out ignores it.
New Zealand will now enjoy unique freedoms and then access the suite of vaccines. Meanwhile Outbreaks will be immediately controlled.
Then we can reingage with the utopia that is swathes of mindless tourists resembling a biblical plague.
Paradise is a brief experience.

Last edited by Samson; 12th October 2020 at 02:07 AM.
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Old 12th October 2020, 03:05 AM   #2451
dann
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
He doesn't read any of the other posts and so constantly misses the fact that Sweden is reporting its numbers about 12 hours late and is actually having hundreds of cases a day.

That is a fact he is very well aware of. He knows that Sweden hasn't had a day of zero new cases since March. He deliberately makes sure to get WHO's numbers before the Swedish number of cases has been registered so he can lay claim to his own kind of imaginary 'objectivity': But I'm just reporting the facts. That is also why he is so meticulous about the time: "2:45pm CEST"
It may not be an actual fact, but it appeared to be when I said it.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 12th October 2020 at 03:06 AM.
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Old 12th October 2020, 10:54 AM   #2452
dann
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Sweden - new cases increasing:
Quote:
Från flera håll kommer nu signaler om att spridningen av det nya coronaviruset åter tagit fart och antalet bekräftade fall per dygn har nått vårens höga nivåer.
Samtidigt är antalet döda och intensivvårdade i sjukdomen på bara en bråkdel av vad vi såg under toppen i mars och april. Den grundläggande frågan är hur en pandemi kan mätas och vilka mått som bäst förklarar verkligheten.
Smittspridningen ökar igen – det är skillnaderna från i våras (DagensNyheter.se, Oct. 12, 2020)
From several directions there are now signs that the spread of the new coronavirus is accelerating again and the number of confirmed cases per day has reached the high levels of spring.
At the same time, the number of deaths and Covid-19 patients in ICUs is just a fraction of what we saw at the peak in March and April. The basic question is how a pandemic can be measured and which measurements best explain reality.
The spread of the virus is increasing again – these are the differences from spring this year

The biggest difference is pretty obvious: In March and April, Sweden tested only people who were seriously ill from Covid-19. If you were asymptomatic or not seriously ill, you wouldn’t get tested, so Sweden’s dark number of infections was considerably higher than now. Nobody knows exactly how high, and we will probably never know, but it is most likely the reason for the incongruity between the the number of confirmed cases and hospitalizations and deaths in March-April and now.

Sweden - Tegnell about more cases in nursing homes:
Quote:
Den 1 oktober hävdes det nationella besöksförbudet på äldreboenden.
Smittspridningen på äldreboenden har ökat - men det kan inte kopplas till att anhöriga nu tillåts besök igen, menar statsepidemiolog Anders Tegnell till Expressen.
– Nej det finns inga tecken på det.
Tegnell: Inte fel att häva besöksförbudet (Expressen.se, Oct. 12, 2020)
Oct. 1, the natonal ban on visits to nursing homes was suspended.
The spread of the virus at nursing homes has increased – but that cannot be traced to relatives being allowed to visit again, national epidemiologist Anders Tegnell says to Expressen.
– No, there aren’t any signs of that.
Not a mistake to suspend the ban on visits (to nursing homes)

Denmark - travel restrictions for people from eight regions in Sweden:
Danmark inför nya reserestriktioner (Expressen.se, Oct. 8, 2020)
Denmark introduces new travel restrictions

Denmark - current mortality (not Covid-19 specific):
Quote:
Trots att covid-19-pandemin rasar dör det färre människor i Danmark än på väldigt länge.
Men ändå kritiseras regeringen för sin corona-strategi.
– Vill man ha den lägsta möjliga dödligheten oavsett priset? Det är naivt och dyrt, säger överläkaren Joachim Hoffmann-Petersen.
(…)
Vill man besegra coronan? Det är omöjligt, säger han till tidningen Politiken.
Han tycker att man i väntan på ett vaccin accepterar ett högre smittotal och lite färre restriktioner.
– I gengäld bör man fokusera extremt mycket på smittspårning.
Lägsta dödligheten i Danmark på sex år (Expressen.se, Oct. 12, 2020)
In spite of the Covid-19 pandemic raging, fewer people die in Denmark than for a very long time.
And yet the government is criticized for its corona strategy.
– Do you want the lowest mortality at any cost? It is naïve and expensive, leading doctor Joachim Hoffmann-Petersen says.
(…)
– Do you want to defeat the coronavirus? That is impossible, he tells the newspaper Politiken.
He thinks that while waiting for the vaccine, you should accept a higher number of infections and a little fewer restrictions.
– But then you should focus extremely much on contact tracing.
Lowest mortality in Denmark in six years

If there is one strategy that has been tested only to fail again and again in this pandemic, it’s the idea that you can loosen the restrictions just a little bit more and still contain the virus. It’s what most of the countries in Europe have tried and are dealing with right now.
Interesting that the Swedish newspaper talks about the situation in Denmark as "the Covid-19 pandemic raging." I doubt that it would use the same word about the situation in Sweden.


Denmark - the number of new cases seems to be dropping, but very s-l-o-w-l-y:
Professor: Falder ikke så hurtigt som vi kunne have drømt om (TV2.dk, Oct. 12, 2020)
The number of cases doesn’t drop as fast as we could have hoped for
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by zooterkin; 12th October 2020 at 02:04 PM. Reason: Fixing broken quote tag
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Old 12th October 2020, 12:30 PM   #2453
dann
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Monday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Oct. 12, 2020)
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
Sweden: 583 (5,894) 919* 26** *according to SVT.se, ** according to SVT.se No new numbers from Sweden till Tuesday.
Denmark: 116 (671) 389 19
Finland: 62 (346) 214 10
Norway: 51 (276) +61* 5 *+ because Norway’s numbers are reported to Worldometers more than once a day. Sunday's number updated from 40 to 58.
Iceland: 29 (10) 56 3 Status of Covid-19 in Iceland (Oct. 7, 2020).
Iceland has 1,022 active cases, Faroe Islands 14, New Zealand 45.
The Faroe Islands have 99 in quarantine, 0 hospitalized.
Quote:
Over the past week, the daily number of positive tests has been as follows: 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0 and 0.
No new Covid cases since Wednesday (KVF.fo, Oct. 9, 2020)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 12th October 2020, 01:25 PM   #2454
lionking
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Sweden - new cases increasing:

From several directions there are now signs that the spread of the new coronavirus is accelerating again and the number of confirmed cases per day has reached the high levels of spring.
At the same time, the number of deaths and Covid-19 patients in ICUs is just a fraction of what we saw at the peak in March and April. The basic question is how a pandemic can be measured and which measurements best explain reality.
The spread of the virus is increasing again – these are the differences from spring this year

The biggest difference is pretty obvious: In March and April, Sweden tested only people who were seriously ill from Covid-19. If you were asymptomatic or not seriously ill, you wouldn’t get tested, so Sweden’s dark number of infections was considerably higher than now. Nobody knows exactly how high, and we will probably never know, but it is most likely the reason for the incongruity between the the number of confirmed cases and hospitalizations and deaths in March-April and now.

Sweden - Tegnell about more cases in nursing homes:
Quote:
Den 1 oktober hävdes det nationella besöksförbudet på äldreboenden.
Smittspridningen på äldreboenden har ökat - men det kan inte kopplas till att anhöriga nu tillåts besök igen, menar statsepidemiolog Anders Tegnell till Expressen.
– Nej det finns inga tecken på det.
Tegnell: Inte fel att häva besöksförbudet (Expressen.se, Oct. 12, 2020)
Oct. 1, the natonal ban on visits to nursing homes was suspended.
The spread of the virus at nursing homes has increased – but that cannot be traced to relatives being allowed to visit again, national epidemiologist Anders Tegnell says to Expressen.
– No, there aren’t any signs of that.
Not a mistake to suspend the ban on visits (to nursing homes)

Denmark - travel restrictions for people from eight regions in Sweden:
Danmark inför nya reserestriktioner (Expressen.se, Oct. 8, 2020)
Denmark introduces new travel restrictions

Denmark - current mortality (not Covid-19 specific):

In spite of the Covid-19 pandemic raging, fewer people die in Denmark than for a very long time.
And yet the government is criticized for its corona strategy.
– Do you want the lowest mortality at any cost? It is naïve and expensive, leading doctor Joachim Hoffmann-Petersen says.
(…)
– Do you want to defeat the coronavirus? That is impossible, he tells the newspaper Politiken.
He thinks that while waiting for the vaccine, you should accept a higher number of infections and a little fewer restrictions.
– But then you should focus extremely much on contact tracing.
Lowest mortality in Denmark in six years

If there is one strategy that has been tested only to fail again and again in this pandemic, it’s the idea that you can loosen the restrictions just a little bit more and still contain the virus. It’s what most of the countries in Europe have tried and are dealing with right now.
Interesting that the Swedish newspaper talks about the situation in Denmark as "the Covid-19 pandemic raging." I doubt that it would use the same word about the situation in Sweden.


Denmark - the number of new cases seems to be dropping, but very s-l-o-w-l-y:
Professor: Falder ikke så hurtigt som vi kunne have drømt om (TV2.dk, Oct. 12, 2020)
The number of cases doesn’t drop as fast as we could have hoped for
A couple of points about a high infection rate/low death rate policy are firstly younger people can get very ill and secondly that nobody knows the longer term impact of the disease. The whole idea of accepting a higher infection rate in the pursuit of imaginary herd-immunity-without-a-vaccine is disgraceful.
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Last edited by zooterkin; 12th October 2020 at 02:05 PM. Reason: Fixing broken quote tag
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Old 12th October 2020, 01:28 PM   #2455
dann
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The thread starter returned briefly to the forum as a sock puppet.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 12th October 2020, 09:12 PM   #2456
Clutch Cargo
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Exclamation

LATEST UPDATE. according to WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19),

Data last updated: 2020/10/12, 3:29pm CEST

Newly reported cases in the last 24 hours:

U.S. 53,055
Australia 20
Sweden 0
Denmark 340
New Zealand 0

Only New Zealand and Sweden have managed to “eliminate” the virus. Kudos to Kiwis and Swedes! Denmark, unfortunately, is the biggest loser again. One would think that Denmark would follow Sweden’s lead being neighbours and all. Oh well, Sweden leads in medicine while Denmark leads the way in Stram Kurs politics. We all have something to learn from one another. The really sad thing is that there are still those who choose to be misled by information sources that are politically biased. SVT sources are deeply involved in political propaganda whereas WHO has no political affiliation at all and so they report the daily tally of Coronavirus “as is”. Alas, there are those who would rather succumb to sources based upon propaganda. I guess that if everyone were earnest in their curiosity the world would be a boring place to live, eh?
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Old 13th October 2020, 12:23 AM   #2457
dann
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In CC's made-up dreamworld:

Sep. 30:
Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Sweden 0
Oct. 1:
Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Sweden 0
Oct. 2:
Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Sweden 397
Oct. 3:
Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Sweden 0
Oct. 4:
Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Sweden - 0
Oct. 5:
Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Sweden 0
Oct. 6:
Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Sweden 0
Oct. 7:
Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Sweden 0
Oct. 8:
Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Sweden 0
Oct. 9:
Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Sweden 0
Oct. 10:
Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Sweden 0
Oct. 11:
Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Sweden 919
Oct. 12:
Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Sweden 0
Oct. 13:
Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Sweden 0

Meanwhile in the real world:
WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Dashboard - Data last updated: 2020/10/12, 3:29pm CEST: Search by Country, Territory, or Area --> Sweden:
Confirmed cases:
Sep. 30: 613
Oct. 1: 688
Oct. 2: 634
Oct. 3: 712
Oct. 4: 461
Oct. 5: 155
Oct. 6: 375
Oct. 7: 786
Oct. 8: 831
Oct. 9: 657

For now, this is as far as the graph goes of the: Sweden: Situation: Daily confirmed cases.
It is deficient in other ways, too: Since it only shows the number of confirmed cases, it gives no good impression of the actual number of cases in March, April and May. Due to the extremely low number of tests carried out by Sweden in those months, we will probably never know with any certainty how many Swedes got infected in those months.
However, the graph of Sweden's Daily confirmed cases does give a good impression of the steady rise in the number of confirmed cases per day since late August/early September.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 13th October 2020, 12:34 AM   #2458
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In many, perhaps most, countries leaders who presided over such appalling death rates would not last a week.
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Old 13th October 2020, 12:49 AM   #2459
dann
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Quote:
Det gick hett till kring Stureplan i helgen när nattklubbarna öppnade igen – trots ökad smittspridning i Stockholms innerstad. Men vems är egentligen ansvaret?
Det är dags att skydda de yngre (SvenskaDagbladet, Oct. 12, 2020)
It was hot in the area around Stureplan when the nightclubs reopened - in spite of increased spread of infections in the center of Stockholm. But who is responsible?
It is time to protect young people

Quote:
Smittspridningen av coronaviruset fortsätter att öka i Stockholms län. På måndagen infördes hemisolering för dem som bor med en person med konstaterad covid-19.
Ökad smitta i Stockholm – hemisolering infört (SvenskaDagbladet, Oct. 12, 2020)
The coronavirus contagion continues to increase in the Stockholm area. This Monday, self-isolation was introduced for people cohabiting with confirmed Covid-19.
Increased contagion in Stockholm - self-isolation at home has been introduced
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 13th October 2020, 01:02 AM   #2460
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The Herd-Immunity Strategy Condemned by the World Health Organization

WHO-chefen: Oetiskt att söka flockimmunitet (SVT.se, Oct. 12, 2020 - 20:02)
WHO director: Unethical to try for herdimmunity

Quote:
“Herd immunity is achieved by protecting people from a virus, not by exposing them to it,” Tedros said. “Never in the history of public health has herd immunity been used as a strategy for responding to an outbreak, let alone a pandemic.”
WHO chief says herd immunity approach to pandemic 'unethical' - Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus cites lack of understanding of virus and lasting health effects (Guardian, Oct. 12, 2020)

I tend to disagree with him when he claims that it has never been used, but Sweden, with Tegnell & Giesecke at the steering wheel, may have been the first country in the history of the world to attempt it.

Quote:
Relying on naturally obtaining herd immunity would be “scientifically and ethically problematic”, Tedros said. “Allowing a dangerous virus that we don’t fully understand to run free is simply unethical. It’s not an option.”
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 13th October 2020, 02:44 AM   #2461
dann
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This one from the Covid-19 Science & Medicine thread is also interesting in the Swedish context
Genomic evidence for reinfection with SARS-CoV-2: a case study (TheLancet, Oct. 12, 2020):

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
What do people make of this new study that says a man caught COVID-19 twice, and the second time was worse?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...764-7/fulltext
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 13th October 2020, 04:12 AM   #2462
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Kvinna död – fick corona två gånger (Aftonbladet.se, Oct. 13, 2020)
Woman died - got corona twice

The case is Dutch, not Scandinavian.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 13th October 2020, 05:05 AM   #2463
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Kvinna död – fick corona två gånger (Aftonbladet.se, Oct. 13, 2020)
Woman died - got corona twice

The case is Dutch, not Scandinavian.
There are sufficient cases now - including one from Hong Kong with genomic sequencing showing they were separate infections to suggest that immunity mightn't last that long.
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Old 13th October 2020, 05:56 AM   #2464
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I had a colleague who I respect tell me today that the WHO has now declared that hard lockdown is not necessary and that she therefore believes we in Melbourne should open up.

My first response was that the WHO hardly covered themselves in glory during the early stages by, amongst other things, refusing to call it a pandemic when it clearly was. But my second more important point was to ask my colleague “which response should we follow then, the US, the UK, Spain, France or even Sweden?”

We have daily infections of 10 on average, and things will soon open up. Shame on you Sweden.
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Old 13th October 2020, 06:44 AM   #2465
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I had a colleague who I respect tell me today that the WHO has now declared that hard lockdown is not necessary and that she therefore believes we in Melbourne should open up.

My first response was that the WHO hardly covered themselves in glory during the early stages by, amongst other things, refusing to call it a pandemic when it clearly was. But my second more important point was to ask my colleague “which response should we follow then, the US, the UK, Spain, France or even Sweden?”

We have daily infections of 10 on average, and things will soon open up. Shame on you Sweden.
???

You can't expect us to take responsibility for your colleague's reaction to a prolonged lockdown.
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Old 13th October 2020, 07:12 AM   #2466
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
???

You can't expect us to take responsibility for your colleague's reaction to a prolonged lockdown.
If only Sweden's policies were more to lionking's liking, his co-worker wouldn't have any excuse to be so obnoxious?
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Old 13th October 2020, 07:15 AM   #2467
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
There are sufficient cases now - including one from Hong Kong with genomic sequencing showing they were separate infections to suggest that immunity mightn't last that long.
Are there? There are certainly enough cases (>1) to show that reinfection is possible. Do we know how likely it is? Do we know if the affected people had immunity which they lost, or were they, for some reason, never immune?
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Old 13th October 2020, 08:52 AM   #2468
dann
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
You can't expect us to take responsibility for your colleague's reaction to a prolonged lockdown.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If only Sweden's policies were more to lionking's liking, his co-worker wouldn't have any excuse to be so obnoxious?

Since lionking's coworker referred to WHO and not to Sweden, Sweden probably can't be blamed for that one.
However, it has become very obvious at this point that Sweden has now almost completely abandoned the so-called Swedish strategy. At the press briefing this afternoon, Anders Tegnell made it clear that he doesn't think that old people in nursing homes can be protected by isolating them exclusively while the virus is left to rage among the younger generations, which was one of the two 'legs' of the Swedish strategy: 1) to flatten the curve so the health-care system wasn't overwhelmed (which it was), while 2) protecting the elderly so they didn't get infected (which they did):

Quote:
Antalet fall på äldreboenden har dubblerats senaste veckan.
- Det finns oroande tecken på att äldreboenden återigen börjat drabbas. På kort tid har antalet fall fördubblats, även om det inte finns något som tyder på att det finns en koppling till att de öppnats upp (för besök), eftersom den här ökningen började innan dess. Men nu är det viktigt att man provtar generöst bland personalen, säger Anders Tegnell.
Senaste nytt om coronaviruset (SVT.se, Oct. 13, 2020 - 14:06)
The number of cases in nursing homes doubled last week.
- There are disconcerting signs that nursing homes are being impacted again. In a short time, the number of cases has doubled, even if nothing indicates that it is connected to nursing homes having been reopened (for visitors), since the rise in cases started before that. But now it is important that the staff is tested massively, Anders Tegnell says.
Latest news about the coronavirus

At the very least, I think that Sweden (Anders Tegnell & Johan Giesecke in particular) owes it to the world to make it absolutely clear that Sweden's herd-immunity strategy was a disastrous idea. And Sweden owes it even more to the citizens of Sweden to come out and say so!
Sweden has spent the past six months propagating the Swedish strategy to its population and to the world. It is time to make up for that disgraceful act by coming clean.
Neo-liberal morons all around the world are still referring to Sweden's coronavirus response as the way to go!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 13th October 2020, 08:55 AM   #2469
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Are there? There are certainly enough cases (>1) to show that reinfection is possible. Do we know how likely it is? Do we know if the affected people had immunity which they lost, or were they, for some reason, never immune?
It's sufficient that you shouldn't rely on it.
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 13th October 2020, 09:06 AM   #2470
dann
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New cases:
Tuesday, Sep. 15: 840 - since Friday, according to SVT.se
Tuesday, Sep. 22: 1199 - since Friday, according to SVT.se
Tuesday, Sep. 29: 1,543 - since Friday, according to SVT.se
Tuesday, Oct. 6: 1,862 - since Friday, according to SVT.se

Tuesday, Oct. 13: 2,203 - since Friday, according to SVT.se
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 13th October 2020, 08:08 PM   #2471
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Exclamation

LATEST UPDATE. according to WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19),


Data last updated: 2020/10/13, 5:06pm CEST

Newly reported cases in the last 24 hours:

U.S. 45,325
Australia 22
Sweden 0
Denmark 389
New Zealand 1

This is quite interesting. The U.S. has actually decreased in number by an impressive amount. Australia has only 2 new cases in this category. New Zealand has increased by only one case but it does demonstrate that it never “eliminated” the virus, not once, not twice, not thrice …. well, you get the idea. Sweden (as expected) has maintained its “eliminated” status (bravo Sweden!). But Denmark ….. is increasing steadily. What the hell is Denmark up to? They’ve put in place some hard rules of behaviour with regards to the Corona virus and yet their cases are increasing day by day. I think it is appropriate to quote one popular American expression, “Something is rotten in Denmark!”

As far as using SVT as a "reputable" source here is a quote from today:

“SVT bortom all räddning
Den samordnade och oblyga propagandaoffensiven från SVT klargör bortom alla tvivel behovet av att lägga ner Public service och bygga upp det från grunden, med nya anställda som värdesätter traditionell journalistisk integritet."


"SVT beyond all rescue
The coordinated and shameless propaganda offensive from SVT clarifies beyond any doubt the need to close down Public Service and build it from the ground up, with new employees who value traditional journalistic integrity."


It is true that this quote is from a right-wing politcal party (Alternativ för Sverige) but it does express the general opinion in today's Sweden .
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Old 13th October 2020, 08:44 PM   #2472
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Are there? There are certainly enough cases (>1) to show that reinfection is possible. Do we know how likely it is? Do we know if the affected people had immunity which they lost, or were they, for some reason, never immune?
From the current case of reassurance it would seem that the issue is not being reinfected by the same strain, but rather coming in contact with a different strain of the virus. Based on the current case, including one in Houston, doctors looking into it are still happy that a vaccine will work for all strains even though natural immunity doesn't appear to be able to protect against all variants. I'm not a doctor so don't understand the ins and outs, just relaying what was being stated the other day when the Houston case was confirmed.
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Old 13th October 2020, 08:48 PM   #2473
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Are there? There are certainly enough cases (>1) to show that reinfection is possible. Do we know how likely it is? Do we know if the affected people had immunity which they lost, or were they, for some reason, never immune?
I found some recent studies on reinfection
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=2232

So far it appears the large majority of people that have had covid are currently immune. How long this lasts from here is unknown.
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Old 13th October 2020, 10:57 PM   #2474
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Swedish Health Chief Said Country Avoided Lockdown To Prevent "Pandemic Fatigue"
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Old 13th October 2020, 11:11 PM   #2475
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
???

You can't expect us to take responsibility for your colleague's reaction to a prolonged lockdown.
My comment "shame on you Sweden" stands on its own and has no connection to my colleague's comment. Do you believe that Sweden should not be ashamed of its behaviour in "managing" the virus?
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Old 13th October 2020, 11:30 PM   #2476
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
An interesting report and it does make you wonder.

"Despite the mainstream media predicting that this would lead to massive fatalities, Sweden has recorded under 6,000 coronavirus deaths and now has the lowest death rate in Europe."

... and ...

"Sweden’s health care system was never overwhelmed, even at the height of the pandemic, and the country is now in a better position than any other country on the continent, virtually all of which continue to follow disastrous lockdown policies."

I think Denmark is an interesting example of how restrictions (à la Denmark) have done nothing to decrease reported new cases of the virus. In any case, it is certainly worth considering whether or not such restrictions are an advantage in the long run.
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Old 13th October 2020, 11:43 PM   #2477
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
As far as using SVT as a "reputable" source here is a quote from today:

“SVT bortom all räddning
Den samordnade och oblyga propagandaoffensiven från SVT klargör bortom alla tvivel behovet av att lägga ner Public service och bygga upp det från grunden, med nya anställda som värdesätter traditionell journalistisk integritet."


"SVT beyond all rescue
The coordinated and shameless propaganda offensive from SVT clarifies beyond any doubt the need to close down Public Service and build it from the ground up, with new employees who value traditional journalistic integrity."


It is true that this quote is from a right-wing politcal party (Alternativ för Sverige) but it does express the general opinion in today's Sweden .

In this thread, I have criticized the bias of SVT and other Swedish media when they report on the Swedish pandemic strategy and its inventors, Tegnell & Giesecke, but SVT reliably reports the daily SARS-CoV-2 numbers every afternoon Tuesday to Friday, numbers it gets from Sweden's Public Health Agency. CC finds it relevant to quote an article that has nothing at all to do with SVT's reports about the pandemic. Instead, the article criticizes SVT's attitude to immigrants: too positive, in the author's opinion.

The author Gustav Kasselstrand is the leader of the party Alternative för Sverige:
Quote:
Alternative for Sweden (Swedish: Alternativ för Sverige) is a Swedish nationalist, right-wing populist political party in Sweden. The party was founded in 2017 by members of the Sweden Democrat Youth, who were collectively expelled from the Sweden Democrats in 2015.
(…)
In early April 2015, the Sweden Democrats (SD) accused its youth league, the Sweden Democrat Youth (SDU), of having relations with the white power organization Nordic Youth (Swedish: Nordisk Ungdom).
Alternative for Sweden (Wikipedia)

The article, ”SVT bortom all räddning”, appeared in the online newspaper Nya Dagbladet, which doesn't have a Wikipedia page in English:
Quote:
Nya Dagbladet är en svensk nätbaserad dagstidning grundad 2012. Tidningen är nationalistisk, vetenskapsskeptisk[källa behövs] och partipolitiskt obunden. Den betecknar sig som humanistisk och etnopluralistisk med en antiglobalistisk hållning.
Nya Dagbladet (Wikipedia)
Nya Dagbladet is a Swedish, internet-based newspaper founded in 2012. The paper is nationalistic, science sceptical (citation needed) og unaffiliated with party politics. It calls itself humanist and ethno-pluralist with an anti-global attitude.

It is obvious why CC takes us on this tour of Swedish far-right politics that began with the Sweden Democrats and is now referencing even more extreme representatives. The whole point is to justify his daily obfuscation of statistics about the pandemic in Sweden.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 13th October 2020, 11:57 PM   #2478
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
An interesting report and it does make you wonder.

"Despite the mainstream media predicting that this would lead to massive fatalities, Sweden has recorded under 6,000 coronavirus deaths and now has the lowest death rate in Europe."

It makes you wonder why the author, 'Tyler Durden' (directly from Fight Club, I suppose) presents the very obvious lie that Sweden "now has the lowest death rate in Europe."
But I guess the reason is obvious yet again:

Quote:
Zero Hedge or ZeroHedge is a far-right libertarian financial blog, presenting staff-written articles and aggregating news and opinions from external sources.
(...)
Zero Hedge in-house content is posted under the pseudonym "Tyler Durden"
Zero Hedge (Wikipedia)
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/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 14th October 2020, 12:00 AM   #2479
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Quote:
Stängda gym och stopp för kollektivtrafiken, besök på köpcentrum och särskilda boenden.
Uppsala kan bli först med lokala rekommendationer (DagensNyheter.se, Oct. 13, 2020)
Closed gyms and stop for public transport, visits to shopping malls and old people’s homes.
Uppsala may be the first town with local recommendations

Smittan ökar i Stockholm – allt fler får vård (SVT.se, Oct. 13, 2020 – 16:51)
Number of infections rising in Stockholm – more hospitalizations
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 14th October 2020, 12:03 AM   #2480
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,486
Tuesday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Oct. 13, 2020)
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
Sweden: 583 (5,899) 2,203* 25 *since Friday, according to SVT.se,
Denmark: 116 (674) 290 19
Finland: 62 (346) 287 10
Norway: 51 (277) 154 3
Iceland: 29 (10) 86 3
Iceland has 1,071 active cases, Faroe Islands 12, New Zealand 39.
The Faroe Islands have 70 in quarantine, 0 hospitalized.
The Faroese health authorities are pretty optimistic: Covid vaccine may arrive in the Faroes this year (KVF.fo, Oct. 13, 2020) [/quote]
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 14th October 2020 at 12:28 AM.
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