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Tags crickets , Cuba conspiracies , Cuba incidents , havana syndrome , mass hysteria , microwave weapons , sonic weapons , US-Cuba relations

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Old 31st August 2021, 05:15 AM   #921
Gord_in_Toronto
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Don't forget the Canadians, who, for some reason, are still 'attacked' exclusively in Cuba and not all over the world, which is kind of appropriate for something called the Havana syndrome.
I guess the rest of the world is lacking in properly trained physiotherapists who can recognize injuries caused by directed energy weapons.
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Old 6th September 2021, 02:00 PM   #922
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The State Department no longer seems to think that there is any imminent threat to US embassy employees from directed microwave weapons, supersonic blasters or crickets in Havana:

Quote:
The U.S. State Department is allowing diplomats in its embassy in Havana to be accompanied by some adult family members, in a first step towards fulfilling President Joe Biden’s promise to increase the personnel at the embassy in Havana and eventually resume consular services.

“President Biden has committed to restaffing our embassy in Havana to enhance our ability to engage with civil society and, at the appropriate time, to increase consular services to Cubans, while ensuring the safety of U.S. diplomats serving in Cuba,” a State Department spokesperson said. “This is one step in that process.”

The agency changed the status of the embassy on Aug. 16 from “unaccompanied” to “partially accompanied.”
Biden administration takes first step to increase staffing at the embassy in Havana (Miami Herald, Sep. 3, 2021)

However, there is still this limitation: Not safe for children! Adults only!
Quote:
Children are still not allowed to return to the U.S. Embassy, suggesting there are still doubts about how secure the post is.

I haven't seen any mention of this in Cuban media yet.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
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Old 14th September 2021, 02:12 PM   #923
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Health Complaints during Sojourns in Havana of Foreign Government Employees

Quote:
Cuba has issued its most detailed report to date from prominent local scientists criticizing allegations that US and Canadian diplomats were subject to mysterious attacks while posted on the island and developed health problems.
The report by the 20-member panel from Cuba’s Academy of Sciences questioned whether the variety of reported symptoms could even be referred to as a single syndrome and said that some of the proposed explanations violated basic laws of physics.
But they acknowledged – and expressed frustration – that they had not been able to examine much of the evidence cited by US researchers.
(...)
The report said the only explanation so far that cannot be dismissed is the possibility of psychological suggestion leading to symptoms.
The authors included neuroscientists, physicists, psychologists and otorhinologists.
Cuban scientists say ‘Havana Syndrome’ theories ‘violate laws of physics’ (The Guardian, Sep 14, 2021)

Quote:
A panel of Cuban scientists has rejected Washington's claims of American spies and diplomats overseas coming down with a mysterious illness known as "Havana Syndrome", saying the allegations are “not scientifically acceptable.”
The illness, which has come to be known as “Havana Syndrome”, was first reported by American diplomats in Cuba in 2016. US politicians, researchers and pundits have speculated that the mysterious condition was caused by electronic weapons.
The Cuban scientists on Monday said there was "no scientific evidence of attacks" of this nature on Cuban territory.
"We conclude that the narrative of the 'mysterious syndrome' is not scientifically acceptable in any of its components," the panel said in a report published on state-run website Cubadebate.
Scientifically unacceptable: Cuban experts refute US claims of 'Havana Syndrome' (PressTV, Sep 14, 2021)

Cuban scientists reject 'Havana Syndrome' claims (France24, Sep 13, 2021)

Spanish: Al descubierto las falsedades sobre el síndrome que inventó Washington (Granma.cu, Sep 13, 2021)

German: Die Unwahrheiten über das von Washington erfundene Syndrom aufgedeckt (Granma.cu, Sep 14, 2021)

The report in English: An Assessment of the Health Complaints during Sojourns in Havana of Foreign Government Employees and their Families (PDF 4,5 Mb)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 14th September 2021, 02:44 PM   #924
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
The State Department no longer seems to think that there is any imminent threat to US embassy employees from directed microwave weapons, supersonic blasters or crickets in Havana:




However, there is still this limitation: Not safe for children! Adults only!



I haven't seen any mention of this in Cuban media yet.
Slightly odd, even the wicked communists haven't been targeting children with their microwave weapons, so I would have thought it was safe for children.
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Old 15th September 2021, 12:08 AM   #925
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You know, we only use microwaves on children when we cook them.

I remember a story from when the 'Havana Syndrome' began (can it be called a pandemic now that it's everywhere?!) about a child with nosebleed and a toddler who fell a lot, but since the USA is very secretive about the data, I have no idea if any of them still have symptoms of anything.
Toddlers falling and children with nosebleed aren't exactly rare, so those microwaves must be everywhere.

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Quote:
Overview
Nosebleeds are common. They may be scary, but they rarely indicate a serious medical problem. The nose contains many blood vessels, which are located close to the surface in the front and back of the nose. They’re very fragile and bleed easily. Nosebleeds are common in adults and children between the ages of 3 and 10.
What Causes Nosebleeds and How to Treat Them (Healthline)

There was a dog, too, but it was put down.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 15th September 2021, 01:35 PM   #926
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Long BBC article:

Quote:
The Biden administration has signalled it is taking the issue seriously. CIA and State Department officials are given advice on how to respond to incidents (including 'getting off the X' - meaning physically moving from a spot if they feel they are getting hit). The State Department has set up a task force to support staff over what are now called "unexplained health incidents". Previous attempts to categorise cases as to whether they met specific criteria have been abandoned. But without a definition, it becomes harder to count.
(...)
 The debate remains divisive and it is possible the answer is complex. There may be a core of real cases, while others have been folded into the syndrome. Officials raise the possibility that the technology and the intent might have changed over time, perhaps shifting to try and unsettle the US. Some even worry one state may have piggy-backed on another's activities. "We like a simple label diagnosis," argues Professor Relman. "But sometimes it is tough to achieve. And when we can't, we have to be very careful not to simply throw up our hands and walk away."
The mystery of Havana syndrome could be its real power. The ambiguity and fear it spreads act as a multiplier, making more and more people wonder if they are suffering, and making it harder for spies and diplomats to operate overseas. Even if it began as a tightly defined incident, Havana syndrome may have developed a life of its own.
‘Havana syndrome ’ and the mystery of the microwaves (BBC, Sep 9, 2021)

So no real category, no real diagnosis, but a lot of cases of something that "have been folded into to the syndrome", which I assume means that they have been interpreted as being a part of this alleged syndrome without specific criteria. That really makes for a fear-spreading mystery and requires a very complex conspiracy theory to explain its origins.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 16th September 2021, 07:15 AM   #927
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Slightly odd, even the wicked communists haven't been targeting children with their microwave weapons, so I would have thought it was safe for children.

I forgot to mention another symptom of 'Havana Syndrome' in children, but I was reminded by an article in the New York Times yesterday: The symptom is crying! If you hear a toddler cry, move away from the area immediately. You may both be under attack!

Quote:
That includes one case, in the fall of 2020, when a military officer serving overseas pulled his vehicle into an intersection, then was overcome by nausea and headaches. His 2-year-old son, sitting in the back seat, began crying. When the officer quickly pulled away from the intersection, his nausea stopped and the child stopped crying, a chain of events that helped solidify the military advice that troops move out of the contact area as quickly as possible.
Pentagon Asks Personnel to Report Any Symptoms or Mysterious Ailments (NYT, Sep 15, 2021)

Man, it can't get more mysterious than this, can it?!

The downside is that you have to take the toddler with you. Remember that your nausea and headaches are not caused by the crying toddler. They are caused by a directed microwave weapon yielded by enemy combatants.
You will have to explain this very carefully to the police and the toddler's parents, who are bound to misunderstand the incident: This was a heroic rescue. It was not an abduction!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 16th September 2021 at 07:16 AM.
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Old 16th September 2021, 07:44 AM   #928
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Quote:
The Pentagon asked personnel who have experienced Havana Syndrome symptoms to come forward.
It sent the message to 2.9 million service members and contractors, the New York Times reported.
More than 200 Americans around the world have been infected, and its cause remains a mystery.
The Pentagon is asking 2.9 million service members and contractors to come forward if they have symptoms of the mysterious 'Havana Syndrome' (Business Insider, Sep 16, 2021)

Quote:
The memo, along with other documents provided to military counterintelligence officials, lays out suspected signs of the attacks from accounts of the injured, including heat, pressure and noise. It also details symptoms associated with the so-called Havana syndrome such as nausea, headaches, pain and vertigo.
Crucially, defense officials emphasized, the memo, which was sent to 2.9 million military service members and Defense Department civilians, outlines how to respond: Quickly move away from the area.
(...)
“We’re going to figure it out,” he added.
(...)
There are various reasons the United States has struggled to identify who, and what, is responsible for the episodes. Officials have considered that intelligence services from multiple countries could be involved, each with varying motives and equipment causing the illnesses, according to some U.S. officials.
Officials stress that the possibility of multiple adversaries remains only a theory, and that intelligence officials have yet to draw hard conclusions.
(...)
“I don’t think we can exclude any possibility here, that there are multiple causes of these injuries and that there are multiple players involved in these injuries,” Mr. Schiff said. “I think any of that is feasible.”
Pentagon Asks Personnel to Report Any Symptoms or Mysterious Ailments (NYT, Sep 15, 2021)

It will be interesting to find out how many of 2.9 million people experience "heat, pressure and noise" and/or "nausea, headaches, pain and vertigo."
After almost five years now, no cause and no potential perpetrator is beyond suspicion!
I am happy that I left out very few options back in 2017: Alien Attack? Mass Hysteria? Conspiracy? After all, anything is feasible, according to Schiff. For a long time, I thought that mass hysteria/mass psychogenic illness was the most likely answer, but with the multiple causes and players mentioned by Schiff, we can no longer rule out anything:

This is indeed the greatest conspiracy ever imagined!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 19th September 2021, 04:43 PM   #929
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Once limited in range, mass hysteria can now spread across the globe in an instant

Directed energy weapons shoot painful but non-lethal beams – are similar weapons behind the Havana syndrome? (The Conversation, Sep 17, 2021)

The answer is no, of course not, but not according to the author of the piece.
The most interesting thing about it is how people defending the idea manage to make it look more improbable.

Quote:
If the source of Havana syndrome turns out to be electromagnetic waves, then in principle, buildings could be hardened against them. However, it would be expensive and would still leave people vulnerable outdoors. Perhaps the best option to prevent further attack is detection. It is relatively simple and inexpensive to install sensors to detect electromagnetic waves on buildings and vehicles. Such sensors could also help identify the location of the source of the attacks and, in this way, act as a deterrent.

Almost five years after the first alleged attacks (counting only from the beginning of the 'Havana Syndrome' and not similar 'cases' from as far back as the 1990s), we are supposed to believe that all embassies and dwellings of CIA agents haven't already been equipped with these "relatively simple and inexpensive sensors". That not a single "location of the source of the attacks" has been found is obvious, since that would immediately have put a stop to the embarrassing lack of evidence for the idea.

It is much like the lack of evidence for alien abductions: Why did they stop when everybody started bringing a camera wherever they go? Why is the 'Havana Syndrome' still a (no)thing when it is so easy to detect the alleged attacks?


And now that Pentagon urges all employees to report symptoms of ‘Havana syndrome’ (Military Times, Sep 16, 2021), it might be a good idea to show "all employees" exactly what it looks like when people are attacked by directed microwave energy weapons. The article in The Conversation has a good photo for those in need of inspiration!

But the best way to spread mass hysteria appears to be by means of YouTube or Tik Tok videos. It worked so well for the most recent wave!
They saw a YouTube video. Then they got Tourettes. (Wired.co.uk, sep 1, 2021)
TikTok tics: when Tourette’s syndrome went viral (BigThink, Sep 10, 2021)
TikTok Tourette's: Social Media Spreading Mass Illness (RealClearScience, Sep 12, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 19th September 2021 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 20th September 2021, 06:45 AM   #930
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Great title!

Quote:
On 17 February, 2017, the then-US chargé d'affaires in Havana sent a complaint to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MINREX) about alleged "attacks" against his staff, which had theoretically occurred since November of the previous year. There was no talk at that time of diseases or symptoms. Immediately, Cuban experts began to investigate, without ever questioning why the information was not shared with them from day one.

When the press reports of that time are reviewed, it can be seen that the information about the alleged attacks was disseminated to the American public through specific journalists and media outlets; the rest only echoed without asking uncomfortable questions or questioning the official story. Cuban officials located and spoke with the directors of these media outlets, who could never deny that their journalists were being used by unidentified sources from the US Government, who created more confusion without seeking an explanation. Nor could they justify the periodic reiteration of the issue, despite there being nothing new to report.

In this report, Dr José Rodríguez takes a look at the controversial phenomenon dubbed the "Havana Syndrome".
Havana Syndrome or Washington Syndrome? (Middle-East Monitor, Sep 15, 2020)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 20th September 2021, 07:18 AM   #931
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Still spreading ...

I think I missed this one back in May. Interesting that CIA agents abroad weren't vaccinated as soon as their colleagues in the USA. Since brain fog is one of the symptoms of both long Covid and 'Havana syndrome', it will be interesting to see how it will be interpreted when people report it as they have been encouraged to do.

Quote:
U.S. GOVERNMENT SUSPICIONS about microwave weapon attacks have apparently spread to the Department of Homeland Security, the nation’s largest federal law enforcement body encompassing agencies like Immigration and Customs Enforcement as well as U.S. Customs and Border Protection, according to an internal DHS memo obtained exclusively by The Intercept.
(...)
The author of “Imaginary Weapons: A Journey Through the Pentagon’s Scientific Underworld,” Weinberger is an expert on directed energy weapons and has argued that known microwave weapons are far too large to operate covertly and unable to penetrate walls.
Talks with retired CIA officials have revealed a deficit of trust between personnel and the agency’s Office of Medical Services. As The Intercept reported earlier this year, CIA headquarters received vaccines for Covid-19 as soon as they were available in early January, while officers working overseas had to wait for months, to the consternation of many. That distrust, while understandable, can lead personnel to seek out their own answers in the absence of any scientific consensus.
MICROWAVE WEAPON CONCERNS SPREAD TO DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (The Intercept, May 28, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 20th September 2021, 12:38 PM   #932
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Directed energy weapons shoot painful but non-lethal beams – are similar weapons behind the Havana syndrome? (The Conversation, Sep 17, 2021)

The answer is no, of course not, but not according to the author of the piece.
The most interesting thing about it is how people defending the idea manage to make it look more improbable.




Almost five years after the first alleged attacks (counting only from the beginning of the 'Havana Syndrome' and not similar 'cases' from as far back as the 1990s), we are supposed to believe that all embassies and dwellings of CIA agents haven't already been equipped with these "relatively simple and inexpensive sensors". That not a single "location of the source of the attacks" has been found is obvious, since that would immediately have put a stop to the embarrassing lack of evidence for the idea.

It is much like the lack of evidence for alien abductions: Why did they stop when everybody started bringing a camera wherever they go? Why is the 'Havana Syndrome' still a (no)thing when it is so easy to detect the alleged attacks?


And now that Pentagon urges all employees to report symptoms of ‘Havana syndrome’ (Military Times, Sep 16, 2021), it might be a good idea to show "all employees" exactly what it looks like when people are attacked by directed microwave energy weapons. The article in The Conversation has a good photo for those in need of inspiration!

But the best way to spread mass hysteria appears to be by means of YouTube or Tik Tok videos. It worked so well for the most recent wave!
They saw a YouTube video. Then they got Tourettes. (Wired.co.uk, sep 1, 2021)
TikTok tics: when Tourette’s syndrome went viral (BigThink, Sep 10, 2021)
TikTok Tourette's: Social Media Spreading Mass Illness (RealClearScience, Sep 12, 2021)
I am legitimately convinced at this point that Tik Tok is a ******* psy-op.
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Old 20th September 2021, 12:46 PM   #933
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Was at a wedding this weekend and one of my fellow guests was experiencing havana syndrome after closing out the bar at 2am and missed the brunch.
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Old 20th September 2021, 12:50 PM   #934
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
I am legitimately convinced at this point that Tik Tok is a ******* psy-op.
Is that your (hysterical) Tourette's coming out?
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Old 20th September 2021, 10:39 PM   #935
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SkepticGinger was the first to point out that Tik Tok was going to become the next big online phenomenon. I had never heard about it when she posted her prediction, and I seriously doubted it, but it has has obviously come true.

When the HPV-vaccine hysteria spread in Denmark, it started with online discussions among the girls, but it really took off when the program De vaccinerede piger (The Vaccinated Girls) aired on TV2 in March 2015. It was very impressive to see a young woman whose whole body was twitching so much that she couldn't even walk.

If the CIA and the State Department seriously want this mass psychogenic illness to spread, we need to see video clips of those 'Havana-Syndrome' victims on both Tik Tok and YouTube. It is difficult to emulate the symptoms when you don't know what they look like.

Show us the crying and falling toddlers, show us the nauseous and dizzy adults!
Inquiring minds need to know!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 21st September 2021, 06:48 AM   #936
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Continues to spread!!

C.I.A. Officer Suffers Havana Syndrome Symptoms

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/20/u...-symptoms.html

Quote:
The officer, who had been traveling in India with the agency’s director, was given medical attention after an unexplained incident triggered injuries.
Is there no place to hide from these evil rays?
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Old 21st September 2021, 08:49 AM   #937
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I am a little disappointed that not even Mr. Burns and his bodyguard have microwave detectors! When they came up with the WMD scam as an excuse to wage war on Iraq, they could at least point at a "shipment of aluminum tubes." So far, I don't remember hearing about physical evidence of anything, unless we count the recordings of crickets.

Quote:
A US intelligence officer suffered symptoms linked to a series of suspected directed-energy attacks known as “Havana syndrome” while traveling with the CIA director, William Burns, in India this month.
(...)
It’s unclear whether the officer was targeted because he was traveling with Burns, who has ordered an agency-wide review of possible attacks using microwave or other directed energy.
(The Guardian, Sep 21, 2021)

And why go for some low-level official when they could get the guy in charge of the whole operation?

Quote:
When CIA Director Bill Burns traveled to India earlier this month a member of his team reported symptoms consistent with Havana syndrome and had to receive medical attention, according to three sources familiar with the matter.
The incident set off alarm bells within the US government and left Burns "fuming" with anger, one source explained. Some officials at the CIA viewed the chilling episode as a direct message to Burns that no one is safe, including those working directly for the nation's top spy, two sources said.
(...)
The situation in India could have dramatic implications: the CIA director's schedule is tightly held and there are deep concerns among US officials about how the perpetrator would have known about the visit and been able to plan for such an aggression.
Member of CIA chief's team reported Havana syndrome symptoms on recent trip to India (CNN, Sep 21, 2021)

Which perpetrator? Got a name or a photo or something?
Since Burns was so close to the new case, how can they be sure that it was merely anger that made him fume?

Quote:
It was first reported by officials stationed at the US embassy in Cuba in 2016. The first cases were CIA officers, which meant they were kept secret. But eventually word got out and anxiety spread.
Twenty-six personnel and family members would report a wide variety of symptoms. There were whispers that some colleagues thought sufferers were crazy and it was "all in the mind".
Five years on, reports now number in the hundreds and, the BBC has been told, span every continent, leaving a real impact on the US's ability to operate overseas.
CIA Officer Suffers Havan Syndrome Symptoms on India Trip: What We Know about It (India Times, Sep 21, 2021)

I don't know about "span every continent". I am pretty sure that I haven't heard about any cases in Antartica, but you never know what those penguins are up to. I also don't remember any in Oceania, but there are so many now that it may have slipped my mind.

Quote:
Earlier this month, a panel of Cuban scientists, which also investigated the events of 2016, said that there was “no scientific evidence of attacks” against the US diplomats in Havana. The “non-science-based” explanations of the phenomenon disseminated by the media only confuse the public and “harm US officials, who believe them,” it insisted.
CIA officer suffers 'Havana syndrome' symptoms on India trip – reports (RT, Sep 21, 2021)

At least, they can't claim that they haven't been warned.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 21st September 2021, 04:24 PM   #938
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
SkepticGinger was the first to point out that Tik Tok was going to become the next big online phenomenon. I had never heard about it when she posted her prediction, and I seriously doubted it, but it has has obviously come true.
People even argued with me after the developers became rich.

Quote:
When the HPV-vaccine hysteria spread in Denmark, it started with online discussions among the girls, but it really took off when the program De vaccinerede piger (The Vaccinated Girls) aired on TV2 in March 2015. It was very impressive to see a young woman whose whole body was twitching so much that she couldn't even walk.
I vaguely remember that ****.

There was also toxic mold syndrome and sick building syndrome. I haven't found a good article comparing those with Havana syndrome but they are very similar.

With the mold they tore whole buildings down and lawsuits have been won. But it's really as nebulous as Havana syndrome. Once people go down this mass hysteria rabbit hole believers continue to fall in after them.

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Old 21st September 2021, 04:33 PM   #939
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Somebody had better do something!

In tense Blinken meeting, ‘Havana Syndrome’ diplomats complain of skepticism

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nat...icism-n1279769

Quote:
WASHINGTON – U.S. diplomats suffering from the unexplained “Havana Syndrome” used a tense meeting with Secretary of State Antony Blinken this month to voice growing dismay over continuing stigma and disbelief within the U.S. government about their injuries, more than four years after the incidents began.

In his first meeting with the cohort of State Department staffers affected in Cuba and China, Blinken spent more than an hour offering reassurances and fielding questions, with most affected staffers joining remotely by phone. His message: Those suffering must be believed, and that the administration is doing all it can to investigate and provide care.

Yet, the assurance from America’s top diplomat stood in stark contrast to the profound challenges that affected diplomats say they’re still facing in getting proper medical care, evaluation and benefits — and the skepticism about their injuries they say is pervasive even among some high-level government officials.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 12:34 AM   #940
dann
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I vaguely remember that ****.

I was at a Copenhagen-Skeptics-in-the-Pub meeting with the MD in charge of the allegedly HPV-vaccine-damaged girls, Jesper Mehlsen, as the speaker. Many of the girls were there, too.
He was already then about to retire. He was obviously a very competent guy in his field of expertise, and the girls had a lot of confidence in him because he didn't simply dismiss their symptoms and had them all undergo meticulous medical examinations, but the problem was that he stuck to an obsolete idea of what constitutes mass psychogenic illness.

Like some of the posters in this thread, he insisted on the old-fashioned definition of community. He insisted that the HPV-vaccine scare couldn't have been caused by rumors spread among the girls since they came from all parts of the country, and thus he missed the point that communities now exist online thanks to social media. A journalist discovered that the girls had shared thoughts and ideas on a website for young girls interested in horses.

One good thing that came out of the medical investigation was a focus on ME and mitochondrial disorders, which some of the girls suffered from. It just wasn't related to the HPV vaccinations.
I don't think Mehlsen ever gave up on the idea that the girls' symptoms were caused by the vaccine, and unfortunately he appears to have started attending conferences for vaccine skeptics even though he himself wasn't one and even said that if he had had a daughter, he wouldn't hesitate to have her get the HPV shots.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 22nd September 2021, 12:45 AM   #941
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Somebody had better do something!

In tense Blinken meeting, ‘Havana Syndrome’ diplomats complain of skepticism

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nat...icism-n1279769

Quote:
WASHINGTON – U.S. diplomats suffering from the unexplained “Havana Syndrome” used a tense meeting with Secretary of State Antony Blinken this month to voice growing dismay over continuing stigma and disbelief within the U.S. government about their injuries, more than four years after the incidents began.

In his first meeting with the cohort of State Department staffers affected in Cuba and China, Blinken spent more than an hour offering reassurances and fielding questions, with most affected staffers joining remotely by phone. His message: Those suffering must be believed, and that the administration is doing all it can to investigate and provide care.

Yet, the assurance from America’s top diplomat stood in stark contrast to the profound challenges that affected diplomats say they’re still facing in getting proper medical care, evaluation and benefits — and the skepticism about their injuries they say is pervasive even among some high-level government officials.

Somebody should tell Blinken that taking "those suffering" seriously when they talk about their symptoms is very different from spreading rumors about directed microwave energy attacks, which is what Mr Burns is doing. And it probably won't stop now that he believes that his ... let's call him Smithers ... is also the victim of an attack.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 22nd September 2021, 05:55 AM   #942
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I didn't have time till now to finish reading the English translation of the report by Cuban scientists mentioned and linked to in post 923.
I recommend that everybody with an interest in this do so. This is an excerpt from the conclusion, p. 29-30:

Quote:
Counterclaim 6: It is not possible to rule out the psychogenic and toxic explanations for many symptoms in some cases without further research. Specifically, all the conditions for psychogenic propagation of malaise were present in this episode.

Concerning the last counterclaim, we offer the following scenario: initially, -for whatever reason- a few individuals believed they were being "attacked" by "sonic weapons".

Subsequently, an environment was created that fostered amplification of symptoms and their misattribution to improbable causes, together with a psychogenic spread of concern and the development of functional neurological disorders. The factors that created this environment were an inadequate initial medical response, the early official U.S. government endorsement of an "attack" theory, and sensationalist media coverage, among other causes.

CAS is willing to revise its conclusions if new evidence emerges. It welcomes attempts to disprove its counterclaims in an atmosphere of open scientific collaboration. However, it firmly rejects as an "established truth," a narrative built on flimsy foundations and faulty scientific practice. Each link in the chain of reasoning leading to the “mysterious syndrome” narrative is weak, so they cannot bolster each other. Additional flawed research cannot buttress the narrative. Unfortunately, farfetched speculations in some scientific fields (say neuropsychology, neuroimaging, or biomechanical modeling) are offered because they were “suggested” by other -unvalidated- conjectures.

An example is the idea that an “attack took place, which is accepted without critical thinking. Some science articles -and most news stories- we have read accept as an axiom that attacks occurred in Havana, thus an idea to build theories on. Nevertheless, after four years, no evidence of attacks has emerged. It is time for a restart of the narrative.
The CAS Expert Group deplores the lack of adequate patient medical information to carry out its work and the artificial restrictions imposed on collaboration with U.S. researchers involved in patient assessments. We sympathize with the plight of U.S. employees (or their families) that have health complaints. Since we recognize that people have been feeling ill, we think it is ethically imperative to dispel wild conspiracy theories and misattribution of symptoms to explanations that defy the laws of physics. Accomplishing the goal of cooperation and collaboration between U.S. and Cuban researchers would be a solid step to accelerate the recovery for many people affected by these incidents (Stone, 2014).

CAS reiterates its willingness to collaborate with NASEM and any other U.S. or international counterparts, with the goal of better understand the health incidents involving U.S. diplomats and their families in Havana (or in any other place). Ultimately, we hope this would help alleviate suffering in affected individuals and contribute to re-establishing closer ties between the two scientific communities and eventually between the two countries.
An Assessment of the Health Complaints during Sojourns in Havana of Foreign Government Employees and their Families - Technical Report by an Expert Group of the Cuban Academy of Sciences (Sep, 2021)

I actually think that this takes the people suffering from the so-called Havana Syndrome seriously in a way that the reports from U.S. institutions of research don't.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 22nd September 2021, 07:55 AM   #943
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Havana Syndrome bill passes House and is headed to Biden's desk for signature into law.

Quote:
The House cleared bipartisan legislation on Tuesday that would authorize payments to government employees injured by anomalous health incidents — known as "Havana syndrome" — while serving abroad.

The bill, which lawmakers approved by a 427-0 vote, now heads to President Biden's desk for his signature after the Senate unanimously passed it in June.

It specifically authorizes the CIA and State Department to provide financial support to employees who have suffered brain injuries inflicted by the mysterious syndrome. The intelligence community still doesn't have an official explanation for the symptoms, which can include headaches, memory loss and dizziness — more than four years after the first cases were reported in Havana, Cuba.
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5...ndrome-victims

Setting aside some payola for victims of the make-believe disease.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 09:32 AM   #944
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Don't you think that they will distinguish between people who have an actual, physiological ailment and those who suffer 'only' from mass psychogenic illness? If that is the case, the money will go to people whose illness, for instance age-related brain damage or loss of hearing, is real.

It is interesting to see the two most common symptoms of mass psychogenic illness (Wikipedia):
Quote:
Headache 67%
Dizziness or light-headedness 46%

Your quotation mentions "symptoms, which can include headaches, memory loss and dizziness."
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 23rd September 2021, 12:11 AM   #945
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Don't you think that they will distinguish between people who have an actual, physiological ailment and those who suffer 'only' from mass psychogenic illness? If that is the case, the money will go to people whose illness, for instance age-related brain damage or loss of hearing, is real.
If people with real illnesses (whether physical or psychological) get support then that is a good thing, no matter how they became ill.

What's remarkable here though is the 427-0 vote. Republicans fought tooth and nail against Obamacare, but frame the initiative a little differently and they are all for it. Those who are worried about the hysteria spreading shouldn't - we want it to spread to everyone, because this is how we finally get universal health care!

However the serendipity of this newfound cooperation plus the latest incident in India is bringing into focus the likely perpetrator of these heinous attacks. We all know it was Obama's fault of course - but think about it - who had more incentive to use such a cold-blooded back-door way to get UHC than him?

The proof is in data if you just look at it right. Ignore the confusing variety of symptoms and spread of locations and concentrate on the one common factor - virtually all the victims are American diplomats who were attacked in their own embassies. Who had the greatest access and opportunity to carry out the attacks? Why it was us! The conclusion is almost too obvious - Obama instructed our own CIA to carry out these attacks, to get Republicans onboard with the idea of government funded medical care. This is exactly what you would expect from the tan-suited narcissist. Obama had the motive, the opportunity, the means and the frame of mind to do it - so he must have.
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Old 23rd September 2021, 06:23 AM   #946
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Somebody in the Biden administration is probably in on it, too. Who else could have zapped the two security officials at the White House?
We need another thread in Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories to get to the bottom of this!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 23rd September 2021, 06:50 AM   #947
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Quote:
Spratlen is departing this week as the State Department faces growing questions about its response to Havana Syndrome and the care and benefits being provided to suffering employees. In recent days, Spratlen had faced a public call for her resignation, and numerous U.S. diplomats said she had lost the confidence of affected employees.
(...)
Diplomats suffering from Havana Syndrome voiced growing dismay this month in a tense phone call with Blinken and Spratlen over continuing stigma and disbelief within the U.S. government about their injuries, more than four years after the incidents began in Cuba.
(...)
On the call, Spratlen responded to a question about an FBI study that found no evidence of an attack and determined that the staffers were most likely to be suffering from mass psychogenic illness, or mass hysteria.
Spratlen responded by saying she had read the study but did not indicate that she agreed or disagreed with its findings — a response that sufferers on the call later described as “invalidating.”
Marc Polymeropoulos, a former senior CIA officer who says he was hit by Havana Syndrome in Russia in 2017, wrote Tuesday on Twitter that declining to rule out the “mass hysteria” theory was “insulting to victims and automatically disqualifying” from leading the task force.
“State is not serious until Ambassador Spratlen is replaced,” Polymeropoulos said.
Diplomat overseeing 'Havana Syndrome' response is out after 6 months (NBC News, Sep 23, 2021)

To me, this sounds as if Spratlen was ousted because she disagreed with the desired outcome of the many 'investigations' into the 'Havana Syndrome': It has to be the result of an attack! There has to be a perpetrator. And that imaginary perpetrator has to be punished!
I bet the Republicans won't complain about 'cancel culture' in this case ...

ETA:
Quote:
The diplomat picked by the Biden administration to oversee the State Department’s response to “Havana syndrome” is leaving days after sufferers were left upset by her not ruling out that their symptoms could be explained by mass psychogenic illness. earlier this week, NBC News reported on a tense-sounding call with Havana sufferers who said Spratlen refused to say whether she believed an FBI report on the syndrome that determined that staffers were most likely suffering from a kind of mass hysteria.
Diplomat Leading Havana Syndrome Response Out After Angering Sufferers With 'Mass Hysteria' Comments (The Daily Beast, Sep 23, 2021)

So now we know what is required of her successor: He or she will have to rule out the most likely explanation for the 'Havana Syndrome'.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 23rd September 2021 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 23rd September 2021, 11:27 PM   #948
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Another skeptic cancelled

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Somebody had better do something!

In tense Blinken meeting, ‘Havana Syndrome’ diplomats complain of skepticism

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nat...icism-n1279769


Quote:
... she (Pamela Spratlen) faced calls for her resignation after a teleconference with victims who had asked a question about an FBI study that determined the illnesses had a psychological origin rather than a physical one.
Spratlen declined to say if she believed the FBI study was accurate or not, angering victims who believe their symptoms are the result of an attack, possibly with microwaves or some form of directed energy. NBC News first reported the exchange. The FBI declined to comment.
Dozens of U.S. personnel in Vienna, including diplomats and intelligence officials, as well as some of the children of U.S. employees, have reported symptoms, according to the current and former officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter.
(...)
The CIA station chief had come under criticism for not taking swifter action in response to symptoms reported among intelligence personnel, said U.S. officials. People familiar with his performance described him as skeptical that the illness was genuine and insensitive to the suffering of the staff he led.
(...)
As lawmakers pressure the administration to address the phenomenon, the National Security Council has sought to encourage employees across the federal government to report any potential health issues that they may be experiencing. An increase in reported health incidents has ensued.
CIA station chief in Vienna recalled amid criticism of management and handling of mysterious ‘Havana Syndrome’ cases (WP, Sep 23, 2021)

Not exactly unpredicted ...
And by recalling the station chief in Vienna, Mr Burns has sent a signal to other CIA station chiefs: 'Don't try to put a lid on this. Keep 'em coming!'
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 24th September 2021, 12:24 AM   #949
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An article in the Miami Herald mentions that Pamela Spratlen is leaving the post as lead adviser of the response to the 'Havana Syndrome', but it completely ignores the (alleged) reason. In fact, it carefully avoids mentioning any suspicion that the whole thing is psychological in nature and not any kind of attack:

Quote:
At the State Department, the lead adviser overseeing its response to the phenomenon is leaving this week, officials told McClatchy. Secretary of State Antony Blinken plans to name a replacement in the coming days for Pamela Spratlen, who is entering retirement.
(...)
“The message appears to be that ‘we can reach you anywhere,’” another government source said.
The reported cases in Vietnam and India are still being investigated. The U.S. government has not officially concluded that they were intentional attacks by a foreign power against American personnel.
But privately, Biden administration officials have become increasingly convinced that Havana syndrome cases are the result of targeted attacks.
As intelligence probe of ‘Havana syndrome’ gains momentum, fear grows of escalating attacks (Miami Herald, Sep 23, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 24th September 2021 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 24th September 2021, 01:20 AM   #950
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
An article in the Miami Herald...

As intelligence probe of ‘Havana syndrome’ gains momentum, fear grows of escalating attacks
Don't fear it, embrace it! There's only way to end these attacks, find more of them - a lot more. Every US government employee everywhere should claim that they are a victim, no matter what symptoms they have. Got a slight headache, hearing loss, sick of work? You've been attacked! Only by taking it to ridiculous extremes will we be able to dismiss the conspiracy theories and take a long hard look at the real cause.
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Old 24th September 2021, 01:56 AM   #951
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I'm not surprised Biden and other legislators would buy into this kind of hysteria. They are not medical people. People unfamiliar with this kind of affliction would naturally tend to believe the 'victims' were experiencing real physical issues.

Whenever you see a certain cluster of symptoms with no obvious explanation it should be a red flag: headaches, memory or cognitive issues, dizziness, fatigue, a vague rash (usually one the victim reports but a rash which you, the provider, can't see).
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Old 24th September 2021, 02:29 AM   #952
dann
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Please don't apologize for Biden & Co. "They are not medical people."
You would never accept an apology for Trump's handling of the pandemic along the same lines, presenting Trump as the poor victim of mere ignorance. Trump actively sought out guys like Scott Atlas and Demon-Sperm lady because he wanted alleged experts to deliver confirmation of his pandemic response. At the same time, he was ignoring actual experts like Anthony Fauci.
Biden, Blinken and Burns are doing the same thing now because they want people in charge of the 'investigations' to come up with 'explanations' that justify the current administration's policy against Cuba. In this respect, nothing has changed since Trump. They are getting rid of the people who contradict the narrative that they are hoping to make stick.

How an Alleged Sonic Attack Shaped U.S. Policy on Cuba (NYT, April 18, 2018)
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

A better title would have been:
How U.S. Policy on Cuba Shaped an Alleged Sonic Attack
(except that in the meantime Sonic Attack has been replaced by Microwave Attack)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 24th September 2021 at 02:47 AM.
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Old 24th September 2021, 02:38 AM   #953
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Biden, Blinken and Burns are doing the same thing now because they want people in charge of the 'investigations' to come up with 'explanations' that justify the current administration's policy against Cuba. In this respect, nothing has changed since Trump.

Well, something has changed: Biden has made it worse!

Quote:
One of the cruelest aspects of America’s sanctions policy is that it is so readily deployed because it satisfies special interest groups in Washington and is painless to Americans, but inflicts horrific damage on the poorest and most powerless — millions of ordinary Cubans and Iranians — who have no way to protest or respond.
Obama began to relax these policies toward Cuba. Trump reversed course. Biden has kept in place the Trump policy and actually tightened sanctions. In a recent U.N. General Assembly vote condemning America’s 60-year-old embargo, the vote was 184 to 2. (Israel was the only country to vote with Washington.)
Biden and his team often criticized Trump for his assault on the rules-based international system. But how does one rebuild such a system while embracing naked protectionism, unilateral sanctions, limited consultations and America First policies on vaccines and even travel?
Is Biden normalizing Trump’s foreign policy? (WP, Sep 16, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 24th September 2021, 04:17 AM   #954
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A summary of the WP article, but missing the point that the station chief dared to doubt that the 'Havana Syndrome' is caused by an attack:
CIA Vienna station chief removed amid 'Havana syndrome' criticism -Washington Post (SwissInfo.ch, Sep 24, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 24th September 2021, 09:28 AM   #955
dann
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This one is from last year but very interesting:

A Canadian diplomat ...
Quote:
... says he was awoken by a mysterious sound in the middle of the night.
"Diplomat Allen": A screeching, metallic scraping noise that just flooded the room. And I listened to it for about 20 to 30 seconds. And then, as it was fading, it would (He makes a sound like a record player slowing down)
- He says he was overcome with nausea, and at the same time his eldest son's nose started gushing blood. When he reported what happened, weeks before he says a Miami neurologist diagnosed he and his wife and two sons with mild traumatic brain injuries, he says he was told to stay quiet.
"Diplomat Allen": The one thing the ambassador told me at that time was that, 'Do not tell any other Canadians. We cannot start mass hysteria.'
Canadian embassy staff warned to stay silent on “Havana Syndrome” (Global News, Oct 26, 2020)

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I AGREE

The diplomats interpret it as an attempt to deny that they were attacked and not merely as an attempt to stop an outbreak of mass hysteria among embassy workers.
This is obviously the perfect basis for a conspiracy theory.
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/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 24th September 2021, 10:08 AM   #956
Planigale
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Could it actually be the MiB? What sort of symptoms do you get after having your memory zapped? If the US has been infiltrated by Reptilians then the MiB maybe having to work overtime to root them out.
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Old 25th September 2021, 06:03 AM   #957
dann
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Don't fear it, embrace it! There's only way to end these attacks, find more of them - a lot more. Every US government employee everywhere should claim that they are a victim, no matter what symptoms they have. Got a slight headache, hearing loss, sick of work? You've been attacked! Only by taking it to ridiculous extremes will we be able to dismiss the conspiracy theories and take a long hard look at the real cause.

We are getting there, but only if we can get rid of all those damn skeptics:

Quote:
Victims have complained of inattention by the department to their cases and lingering skepticism among its medical staff.
Earlier this month, Secretary of State Antony Blinken held a call with affected employees, who have also complained they continue to face hurdles in accessing medical care and benefits. Diplomats who took part in the call described the conversation — in which Spratlen and McKeon also participated — as "tense," and one called parts of it "offensive," criticizing what the person said seemed to be an entrenched disbelief among officials of victims' symptoms.
(...)
On Wednesday, a bipartisan pair of senators — Democrat Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire and Republican Susan Collins of Maine — wrote to Blinken asking that State Department victims be allowed to access Walter Reed National Military Medical Center for evaluation and treatment. The letter noted some employees had been denied access to the hospital, which is a leading treatment center for brain injuries.
"Every U.S. government employee, regardless of their home agency, must be given the same equitable access to care," the lawmakers wrote. "We welcome efforts to broaden treatment options to care for this vulnerable population, but ask that the right to receive care from the center of excellence be a decision based on medical need and the wishes of the victim."
"We see no reason why the State Department and DoD cannot allow for equity for all government employees in access to care at Walter Reed," the letter said, referring to the Defense Department.
U.S. diplomat overseeing "Havana Syndrome" response leaving after 6 months (CBS News, Sep 23, 2021)

Also in: Senators press Blinken to improve care for Havana Syndrome victims as task force leader departs (CNN, Sep 24, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 25th September 2021 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 25th September 2021, 06:25 AM   #958
dann
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Told you so!

Originally Posted by dann View Post
Not exactly unpredicted ...
And by recalling the station chief in Vienna, Mr Burns has sent a signal to other CIA station chiefs: 'Don't try to put a lid on this. Keep 'em coming!'

Quote:
Though the Washington Post reported that the station chief’s recall was not solely due to his handling of the “Havana Syndrome” cases, the shakeup at one of the CIA’s most prominent stations is being interpreted as a warning to other intelligence officials to take such reports seriously.
CIA Vienna station head recalled over ‘Havana Syndrome’ response (New York Post, Sep 24, 2021)

For this enterprise to be successful, medical staff will have to be screened even more carefully than the CIA agents complaining about attacks. Otherwise, they'll ruin the whole operation!

Quote:
During his tenure, Burns has tripled the number of medical staff studying incidents linked to “Havana Syndrome” and met with agency personnel who reported cases. At least 200 cases are under investigation, half of them involving intelligence personnel.

There is no room for doubters and skeptics:

Quote:
Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH), a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, described Pamela Spratlen’s departure from the position as a “firing” in an interview with MSNBC Thursday and called it a “positive sign that the State Department sees that there’s a problem and it intends to do something about it.”
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/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th September 2021, 06:50 AM   #959
dann
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Could Satellite Sensors Solve the Havana Syndrome Mystery? - Recent breakthroughs may prove forensically useful. (The Diplomat, Aug 30, 2021)

Worth a try, in my opinion: No registered "directed radio frequency (RF) energy" = no microwave-weapon attacks!
But so far, Blinken & Burns have not been willing to accept that no evidence = no attacks.


ETA: And in case you aren't quite up to date with the locations, the article mentions, "purported incidents in Hanoi, Vienna, Berlin, Kyrgyzstan, Miami, Washington D.C., Northern Virginia, London, Taiwan, Australia, Poland, Tbilisi, Moscow, Guangzhou and Havana."
But notice that this was before the most recent 'incident' in India.
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/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 25th September 2021 at 06:59 AM.
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Old 25th September 2021, 08:07 PM   #960
Roger Ramjets
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Quote:
The device used to generate the RF output may itself emit detectable signals if not appropriately shielded. Notably, it would take only a single “hit” of the right signature to add significant credence to the directed RF energy hypothesis.
Yes, this is just what what we need. A single misattributed 'hit' should be enough to 'validate' every 'attack' that ever 'occurred'. But what if it doesn't turn up any hits? That would simply prove that the detection technique isn't as foolproof as they thought.

Whoever is behind these attacks obviously knows their craft well, because so far there has been no real hint of who is responsible. The varied symptoms suggest the weapon may actually have several attack modes, some of which might be impossible to detect with current sensors. So it doesn't matter whether we can detect the device or not - if we can't detect it that just means it is very sophisticated.

However it does mean we can narrow down the list of possible suspects. Clearly Dr. Evil is out (he's still trying to get those sharks to wear lasers on their heads). Such a device would require serious R&D to develop, so it must be the product of a major super-power with experience in the field. It should come as no surprise to learn that the US used Directed Microwave weapons in the Gulf war.

As I said before, it's quite telling that only US diplomats are being targeted, in so many locations all over the World that the idea of a foreign power being behind it seems remote. Sadly this clear evidence of who is to blame will probably be swept under rug due to the political impossibility of owning up to the fact that we have met the enemy, and they are us.
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