|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
Tags | val mcclatchey , flight 93 , photo , 911 conspiracy theory |
![]() |
View Poll Results: Is the plume in this photo from Flight 93 crashing? | ![]() |
Yes. |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
129 | 90.85% |
No. |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
13 | 9.15% |
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll |
![]() |
![]() |
#481 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 4,785
|
Well, most of us here enjoy this kind of thing, so we benefit.
Other than that, I think it would be satisfying if we manage to take the air out of his argument, so that even he realizes that he gains nothing by trying to make it. I was able to accomplish that to some degree with Sun Zoo over at LC, and his argument that photos of flight 175 proved that the plane could not have been a 767-200, therefore must have been a different flight/plane. I think he still argues that it was different, but I haven't seen him say that the photo proves it anymore. Of course, Killtown's web page has 200 crappy arguments, so even if we make him abandon this one, we still have 199 more of these to look forward to. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#482 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,393
|
Pardalis, I doubt I have the "expertise" to satisfy you, so you probably shouldn't participate in this discussion anymore.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#483 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#484 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,393
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#485 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
|
Killtown, wouldn't you want to corroborate your "findings" with the proper authorities in the field?
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#486 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,393
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#487 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
|
You didn't answer my question.
If you are after the truth, wouldn't you want to ask the proper experts' opinion? |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#488 |
Scholar
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 123
|
No. Quit whining and grow a thick skin. You want to delve in hot button topics, learn to deal with the heat.
You estimate the size of the cloud at the hole, as shown in the photograph to be 2200 feet across. That's 600 meters. I posted a mathematical equation showing that 600 meters is possible, 1000 meters is even reasonable. Do you have anything besides your own opinion that the cloud is just too big to be believable, or is that the best you have? Answer it, don't answer it. Doesn't matter much to me. If you do then we all get to finally see your hand. If you don't, someone else on here will press you and you'll have to come up with something. Hurry up, boy! Start a-cipherin'! |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#489 |
NWO Janitor
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,517
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#490 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 4,785
|
The other points have been pretty well addressed already, so I'll take this one. How can you tell it's travelling straight up? A plume drifting in the wind would, at any snapshot in time, look like that, but over time it would simply appear farther and farther downwind. That seems to be what we're seeing in this photo.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#491 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,393
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#492 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,393
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#493 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,098
|
|
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#494 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
|
Killtown, wouldn't you want to corroborate your findings with the proper authorities in the fields of physics, geomatics, meteorology, and the like?
Are you really interested in finding out what that plume of smoke is? Are you willing to have your theory be falsified scientifically, as any theory should be? Or do you want to hold on to your unprofessional layman analysis as the Gospel? |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#495 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,374
|
I wonder how long it would have taken one of us, with the exact same posting style, no answers or brief, snippy answers to questions that just beg for more questions instead of proper debating, and attitude as killtown, to be banned at LC.
Kind of telling, don't you think? |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#496 |
Evil Fokker
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,543
|
|
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#497 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,374
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#498 |
NWO Janitor
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,517
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#499 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#500 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 4,785
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#501 |
Scholar
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 123
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#502 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,393
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#503 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
|
Killtown, please answer my question:
Do you acknowledge that you don't have the necessary credentials and expertise to call Ms Val McClatchey's picture "a fraud"? |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#504 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,154
|
Val's House where picture was taken: VH - 40 03 00.29 N, 78 52 28.16 W
Red Barn in picture (south tip of roof): RB - 40 3 0.44 N, 78 52 34.39 W White Barn in picture (north tip of roof): WB - 40 2 58.22 N, 78 52 42 W Crash site: CS - 40 3 3 N, 78 54 13 W Distance from VH to RB: 148 meters V1 Distance from VH to WB: 334 meters V2 Distance from VH to CS: 2421 meters V3 Distance from RB to CS: 2335 meters V4 Distance from WB to CS: 2158 meters V5 Distance from RB to WB: 193 meters V6 Can someone who remembers their trig tell me the height of the triangle VH-RB-WB so we can confirm the Google Earth value of 32 meters? Also, please confirm height from WB-RB-CS is 74 meters. Yes, I'm going somewhere with this, just need some more math savvy people's input to get there. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#505 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,393
|
Arkan_Wolfshade, I afraid I can't help you with your above question, but I just wanted to know if you think my diagram is accurate if we hypothesize that my explosion sizes are accurate?
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#506 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
|
Killtown, do you acknowledge that you don't have the necessary credentials and expertise to call Ms Val McClatchey's picture "a fraud"?
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#507 |
NWO Janitor
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,517
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#508 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,154
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#509 |
Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 203
|
They were shown to be false. You have not denied this. A false argument is a rubbish one. The arguments have been rubbished. I apologise if you find having your arguments countered upsetting. But I cannot apologise for calling a rubbish argument a rubbish argument. Please answer the questions... |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#510 |
Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 203
|
Which way is the wind blowing in each of the photos?
Do you deny the possibility that in picture 1 the wind may be blowing towards you? Or away from you? And you would not see the plume bending to one side? Please, please answer as I am genuinely trying to understand how you can fail to grasp this point. Please say if this is wilful obtuseness and we can move on... |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#511 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,154
|
Those pics are enlightening. In comparison to the overlaid pic (2nd one) we can see that Val's pic is showing a plume that is asymmetric. Assuming, for sake of argument, that the plume formed in a symmetric manner initially and is being deformed by wind we would see the plume stretching in a SE direction from the crash. This is consistent with what we see in the pic given that the direction of the picture is WNW.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#512 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,393
|
Hey, thanks for that photoshop pic! Now I'm MORE convinced than ever Val's plume is an ordnance plume! I even put it on my blog...
(scroll to bottom) http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/07...ce-blasts.html Not to get back on topic, I posted that clip to compare the Val plume with the known jet crash plume that IS being affected by wind. But I guess we'd have to start debating what caused the plumes in the first place to debate this clip, so I guess my clip is invalid for this thread. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#513 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,393
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#514 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,393
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#515 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#516 |
Salted Sith Cynic
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 38,527
|
Let me suggest, to aid in your understanding of a colloquialism, that the message being sent is this:
the assessment of your approach to analysis and argument in this case is being compared to garbage, which is an apt comparison in that if your analysis were thrown into a trash heap, said disposition would not result in any loss of understanding, or enlightenment, regarding the various questions surrounding the 9-11 event being discussed. The gentleman is finding your argument of low to no value, due to the weaknesses in structure and lack of rigor, not you personally, as I read his comments. DR |
__________________
Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#517 |
Person of Hench
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,488
|
Let me make sure that I understand the point of this thread. You're attempting to determine whether or not a woman is selling a faked picture showing a smoke plume from flight 93? Who cares?
As to the claim that this was a smoke plume from ordnance, where are the witnesses in the area that heard this additional mystery exposion? Certainly someone would have heard it, seen an additional smoke plume, found it, etc... |
__________________
"You may balk at this, but bob_kark's argument that all major world powers are controlled by a covert group of "insiders" is hopelessly flawed and totally circuitous." - Shemp |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#518 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,393
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#519 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 4,785
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#520 |
Refusing to be confused by facts
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 879
|
|
__________________
"Humanity is slipping into the void of ignorance while you cheer and wave." - Tirdun, in reference to geggy and the 9/11 conspiracy theorists |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
Thread Tools | |
|
|