Plume in Flight 93 photo is different

Is the plume in this photo from Flight 93 crashing?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 129 90.8%

  • No.

    Votes: 13 9.2%
  • Total voters
    142
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R.Mackey said:
Now please compute the maximum initial fireball size, like we discussed before. After you've done that, we can discuss how the fireball evolved. We're not ready to jump to that step yet.
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Well my min/max for my 200m/600ft plume would be min 76m/250ft and max 122m/400ft.

What is you guys min and max?
 
Killtown said:
She had a "new" digital camera. My guess it would have been at most an average priced one since they were under financial constraints. She said she "didn't even aim" so that says to me that she didn't stop to focus, but just snapped the picture.

So tell me, what does that all mean to you about your focal length?
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Did you read the links I posted?

Wouldn't you agree that the focal length affects greatly one's appreciation of size and distances?
 
Killtown said:
so your min fireball width when it crash was only 48m wide, but grew to the width of 600-1,000m??? :confused:
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You are ignorant.

Go to www.dictionary.com. Type in "radius". See what it returns.

And that's a minimum. That's one of those extremes that I did say could be ruled out with high confidence, and assumes the fuel was completely ignited inside the wings. No splatter/spillage.
 
Gravy said:
Killtown, there have been 378 posts since you started your "experiment" nearly two days ago, and you haven't taken a single step forwards.

Does that concern you?
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Actually yes, it tells me you OCTs can't prove your plume theory and that concerns me. :rolleyes:
 
R.Mackey said:
At maximum, consider the case where the fuel was in such a volume but scattered elastically at the moment of impact. The ground does not recoil, so the fuel can conceivably spread at the aircraft's former speed, but fanning in (potentially) all directions. The speed of the aircraft has already been presented to you from the FDR. For sake of argument, assume one second between impact and complete engulfment of the fuel (this time is an estimate, but there is absolutely no way to predict just how long it took to ignite, or where). Multiply the speed by one second, and add it to each extreme of the first calculation.

Show us your answers, and we will see if they were computed properly. Expect answers for the first on the order of 10-30 meters, and > 300 meters for the second.
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Killtown said:
Well my min/max for my 200m/600ft plume would be min 76m/250ft and max 122m/400ft.

What is you guys min and max?
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You didn't bother to finish reading the assignment, did you?

Now compute the maximum as I described above. Your "rule of two" is wrong, because it does not consider the conditions of the crash. It's just a guess. Your guesses, as we have seen, are not very good.
 
Please, what is your guy's min & max fireball size diameter when 93 crashed?

Remember, your plume grew to 600m/2,000ft-1000m/3,300ft.

93's wingspan was only 38m/125ft.
 
Killtown said:
Please, what is your guy's min & max fireball size diameter when 93 crashed?

Remember, your plume grew to 600m/2,000ft-1000m/3,300ft.

93's wingspan was only 38m/125ft.
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I've showed you twice now how to compute it.

I am getting the impression that you are just not that interested in finding out.
 
Killtown said:
How did 93's fireball react so differently then?

The fireballs in the Moav/B-52 video are not a whole heck of a lot different. the 52 one spilled forward more where as the Moav one made more of a circle shape which I would suspect 93's would have made because it nose-dived. Agreed?
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... I... I can't believe you're still at this.

Aside from fell Christophera, I've never seen someone so deeply involved in his own delusions.
 
Killtown said:
Another idea to move things along. 757 wingspan is about 125ft/38m. You would all agree the fireball 93 would have made would be at least twice as wide (250ft/76m) in diameter compared to the wingspan when it hit?

I mean your min plume width is 600m and you max is 1000m, so you'll need to start explaining how such a large plume could come from a plane with only a 38m wingspan.
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Well, YOU're going to have to explain how such a large plume could come from an ordnance explosion, assuming the bomb is only a few feet wide.
 
Killtown said:
...first page of this thread ...

All we know is it was a "new digital camera." I'd guess it was more of a basic one than an expensive one since she probably bought it for her real-estate work (taking pictures of houses, etc.) and that right before 9/11 she was about to go bankrupt, so doubtful she'd spend a ton of money on an advanced camera. We can only speculate though.

...and 50 some pages on....

She had a "new" digital camera. My guess it would have been at most an average priced one since they were under financial constraints. She said she "didn't even aim" so that says to me that she didn't stop to focus, but just snapped the picture.

So tell me, what does that all mean to you about your focal length?
Click to expand...

Wow, not even one step forward and two steps back just a big old circle.
 
Killtown said:
She had a "new" digital camera. My guess it would have been at most an average priced one since they were under financial constraints. She said she "didn't even aim" so that says to me that she didn't stop to focus, but just snapped the picture.
Click to expand...

My, what happens when you factor in all those guesses and gut feelings ?

(Feelings x Guesses x Conjecture) + ((Estimate) ^ Ignorance) = Crap.
 
What are your guys min/max estimates for your initial fireball diameter size upon impact?


Here's what we have so far:

-------------------------------
Your minimum:

Crash angle: "nearly 90 deg"
Fuel upon impact: 7,500 gals
Fuel % burned upon impact: 75%
Wingspan: 38m/125ft
Initial fireball width: ???
Plume width size at time of Val's photo: 600m/2,000ft

--------------------------------
Your maximum:

Crash angle: 40-45 deg
Fuel upon impact: 10,000 gals
Fuel % burned upon impact: 95%
Wingspan: 38m/125ft
Initial fireball width: ???
Plume width size at time of Val's photo: 1000m/3,300ft

--------------------------------


Please fill in the blanks so we can move on for godsakes.
 
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