Plume in Flight 93 photo is different

Is the plume in this photo from Flight 93 crashing?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 129 90.8%

  • No.

    Votes: 13 9.2%
  • Total voters
    142
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Here's KT's image, overlaid on top of my analysis:
KT-ImageOverlay.jpg


And here is the same image, angle view, from the house:
KT-ImageOverlayAngle.jpg
 
For a sense of scale:
Working at the longitude of the crater, KT's "plume" vectors add ~171 meters of width over my estimate. (my estimate at that longitude is ~584 meters)
To look at it another way, his plume width at that longitude is ~783 meters; that's 134% larger.

That's about 10 meters of difference on the white barn, and about 5.5 meters of difference on the red barn.

The diameter to the outer ring of his "Realistic Explosion Size" is ~263 meters, and to the inner ring is ~150 meters. Consider the widest part of the debris field is ~130 meters and the widest part of the burn area is ~81 meters.

He also has the crater ~55 meters NE of actual (center to center of craters).

Since he has it marked, mid crater (mine) to closest point on the pond (where the engine was found) is 265 meters. To the center of pond, 311 meters, and to the furthest edge 381 meters. NOTE: The pond is in the middle of my estimated plume stem size. If the engine ended up there, I do not think it is unreasonable to assume that other burning debris was strewn between the point of impact and there as well.

Taking his "Realistic Explosion Size" max, we have to move his "Possible Burn Mark" ~285 meters west to fit into my plume width.
 
Have you seen the newest post on his steaming pile of drek blog? He had other CTists do their own photoshop jobs of Val's photo, a la fark or worth1000.com
 
Hey Arkan:

Nice work! I particularly like the progression of crater, burn mark, debris field. Well done.
 
I would have one more of great interest posted, but photobucket.com is not connecting and it is too large for jref image hosting. Once photobucket comes back from its coffee break I'll get it uploaded.
 
Here we go.

me_popular_mechanics_overlay.jpg


Take special note of flightpath and wind direction; they are almost ideal for moving the plume into the field of view of the camera.
 
Yeah, I noticed that from the beginning. Of course, the trajectory and wind could have come from anywhere, it would have simply meant Val got a different picture.

Not such a spectacular coincidence, really. It only seems that way if you start assuming that Val (and everyone else on the planet) is lying -- just for the sake of lying, I guess.
 
Isn't she wrong about the direction of the plane? I'm assuming (having done no research mind you) the plane was heading at least somewhat east at the time of the crash.
 
KingMerv00 said:
Isn't she wrong about the direction of the plane? I'm assuming (having done no research mind you) the plane was heading at least somewhat east at the time of the crash.
Click to expand...
If you're talking about that blue arrow, I believe that is another fabrication of Killtown's. In the newspaper articles I've read, Val specified "hearing" the plane pass overhead, seeing it briefly (but not seeing it move), and never implies a direction of travel. And in any case, if she had said where she saw it moving and did indicate the blue arrow, it would also be reasonable to assume she'd made an honest mistake.

If anyone else could clarify or has conflicting information, by all means, let us know.

ETA: Clarifying what Val did and didn't say.
 
Last edited:
Great job, as always, Arkan and R.Mack! Too bad about Killtown being beyond hope, but I got a lot out of reading this thread, and I imagine that others did also.
 
Just for everyone's info... I've received a PM from a couple of lurkers who have been following this thread and thanked us all for addressing the nonsense and providing a wealth of information.

I'm sure others have received similar PMs. So it's worth it.

-Andrew
 
Gravy said:
Great job, as always, Arkan and R.Mack! Too bad about Killtown being beyond hope, but I got a lot out of reading this thread, and I imagine that others did also.
Click to expand...

I learned that trying to reason with some people is pointless. If all the evidence and analysis in this thread was not enough to convince KT how wrong he was, then nothing ever will.

I just hope like others have stated before, that one day he realises what a fool he has been and the hurt that his type of behaviour can cause.
 
LashL said:
Oh for crying out loud.

Killtown is utterly incapable of comprehending anything, I swear. Despite having his butt handed to him here on this very issue, he has just started a thread on the LC forums about this again.



http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12355

Nothing.
Sinks.
In.
Click to expand...

I went over there and I don't think I saw one critical question. Just a lot of backslapping and "you da man's". killtown has some 2,500 posts there and so seems to be the local boy hero, but I guess it just goes to show that the poop floats to the top over there.
 
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