ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags ground zero , gravy , debate , 911 conspiracy theory , jason bermas

Reply
Old 9th September 2006, 03:48 PM   #1
Abbyas
Muse
 
Abbyas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 684
Big Ups to Gravy and Loose Change agrees to debate!

Didn't want to hijack any other threads with this, but knew that you people would appreciate it.

"What is your real name!"

Ask Gravy about his run in with Alex Jones today. Some of the celeb truthers were downtown today with cameras for about 40 minutes to an hour tops.

Good lord, the regular tin-hat truthers are easier to understand than that Jones nutball.

While Gravy was chatting with Mr. Jones, Realitybites and I got a chance to talk with Jason Bermas. Which started when Jason shouts "What is your real name!"

Now, I don't know nearly as much as some on this board, but I was able to help him out with this one.

"His real name's Mark Roberts."
"No it isn't. It's Mark Ferguson."
"No, it is Mark Roberts."
"What's his job?"
"He's a tourguide."
"Where's he from?"
"Uh, westchester?"
"Did he tell you that?"

Long story a bit less long: Jason told me that he would debate me anytime leaving me open to suggest Gravy instead. "Sure! Fine! Not now though. October."


I also got the chance to speak with Dylan Avery while he was standing off to the side about those overly aggressive gentlemen on his messsage board. Who is much smaller and much shyer than I expected him to be.

A: Hello, Dylan.
D: Hello, Abby.
A: Did you delete that thread about people wanting to beat me up?
D: I don't advocate violence.
A: So, hey! Jason said you were going to debate Mark Roberts!
D: Well, Korey said that...
A: No, no! Jason just now said that you guys would!
D: Well, we're really busy right now with all of this stuff.
A: No, in October! (using all the while my Wow, Isn't this Great For Everyone! voice)
D: If he wants to do that then, he can go ahead.
A: Great!
D: We have to get back to our hotel now and we have to get to [something, something]
A: Okay, good luck, Dylan.

Realitybites has decided that on 9/11, I am to throw panties at him and shout "DYLAN!! WOOO! WE LOVE YOU!"
Abbyas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 04:07 PM   #2
Dog Town
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,862
That ***** rocks. Abby please vid that!
Go Gravy!
Dog Town is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 04:26 PM   #3
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
Originally Posted by Dog Town View Post
That ***** rocks. Abby please vid that!
Yeah, that'll be great.

May I risk a small request? Could the cameraman be a little more careful with the exposure next time (the "iris")? Maybe you could put it on "automatic". The video was great last time but it was way too overexposed.

Sorry for this minor criticism but it would help have a better picture of these nuts... litterally
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 04:32 PM   #4
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
Gravy vs Bermas - and the winner by knock out at 1 second in the first round is....GRAVY...(crowd goes wild!!)

TAM
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 04:39 PM   #5
Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
 
Gravy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
Gravy vs Bermas - and the winner by knock out at 1 second in the first round is....GRAVY...(crowd goes wild!!)

TAM
I didn't get to talk to him, but he apparently told Abby that he had one stipulation: he wants to be able to use his computer during the debate. I think it's a grand idea. Look what Google has done for him so far!
__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links
Gravy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 04:56 PM   #6
gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
 
gumboot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 25,327
Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
I didn't get to talk to him, but he apparently told Abby that he had one stipulation: he wants to be able to use his computer during the debate. I think it's a grand idea. Look what Google has done for him so far!

It's in case someone asks him what the "other" country Hitler invaded was.

-Andrew
__________________

O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde
keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi.


A fan of fantasy? Check out Project Dreamforge.
gumboot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 04:58 PM   #7
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
With all his "extensive research", one would think he'd know all his facts by heart by now...
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 05:30 PM   #8
Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
 
Gravy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
With all his "extensive research", one would think he'd know all his facts by heart by now...
He'd need a heart first.
__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links
Gravy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 05:30 PM   #9
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
He'd need a heart first.
Touché
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 05:50 PM   #10
MarkyX
Master Poster
 
MarkyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,157
Did Alex Jones ask Gravy what is his real name?!
__________________
MarkyX's Haunted Bloghouse - Read my boredom
MarkyX is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 05:53 PM   #11
Peephole
Master Poster
 
Peephole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,584
Originally Posted by Abbyas View Post

Ask Gravy about his run in with Alex Jones today.
Well???
Peephole is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 05:59 PM   #12
defaultdotxbe
Drunken Shikigami
 
defaultdotxbe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,474
mark ferguson now? that one heck of a name

mark ferguson-roberts-iradian-brainster
__________________
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Albert Einstein
defaultdotxbe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 06:12 PM   #13
Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
 
Gravy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe View Post
mark ferguson now? that one heck of a name

mark ferguson-roberts-iradian-brainster
I think my name is now Mark Ferguson Iradian Curley Bennett Ferran Fillintheblank Roberts. The Loosers will remind me if I missed anyone.
__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links
Gravy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 06:16 PM   #14
Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
 
Gravy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
Originally Posted by MarkyX View Post
Did Alex Jones ask Gravy what is his real name?!
I said, "Iradian. And when you hear a click on the phone, say 'Hi, MarkyX,' because that's me listening in."

I'll post about the actual encounter shortly.
__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links
Gravy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 06:25 PM   #15
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
seems like the computer would be a good idea, provided both of you have access to one, and provided no instant messaging is aloud.
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 06:33 PM   #16
Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
 
Gravy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
seems like the computer would be a good idea, provided both of you have access to one, and provided no instant messaging is aloud.
I meant that the computer was a good idea for Bermas. I don't require one. BTW, instant messages are rarely aloud.




[English major mode](Allowed)[/English major mode]
__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links
Gravy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 06:43 PM   #17
Lisa Simpson
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 22,250
Instant messanging can be aloud. For example, I just shouted to my husband to bring me more of The TEA.
Lisa Simpson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 06:48 PM   #18
Abbyas
Muse
 
Abbyas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 684
Quote:
I think my name is now Mark Ferguson Iradian Curley Bennett Ferran Fillintheblank Roberts. The Loosers will remind me if I missed anyone.
I should have told Bermas, "It's Gravy. Kind of like Madonna or Cher."
Abbyas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 06:49 PM   #19
David Wong
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,773
I'm pretty sure if you give me a computer and access to Google, I can debate any subject in the world.


Actually, let me revise that. Give me a computer and access to Google and I can appear to intelligently debate any subject in the world.

That is, I could do a good enough job to fool a random bystander, but of course a real expert would recognize me for what I was right away.
David Wong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 06:52 PM   #20
Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
 
Gravy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
Originally Posted by Abbyas View Post
I should have told Bermas, "It's Gravy. Kind of like Madonna or Cher."
I prefer to think of myself as the Yanni of 9/11 myth debunkers.
__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links
Gravy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 06:55 PM   #21
Dog Town
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,862
Quote:
I meant that the computer was a good idea for Bermas. I don't require one.
Kinda like bringing a knife to a gunfight! For Bermas that is. Atleast you let him arm himself ! That will be the perfect insult! Kick his A**!
Dog Town is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 06:59 PM   #22
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795

got me...damn it.

ALLOWED!!


TAM
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 07:15 PM   #23
Dog Town
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,862
* In the voice of Howie C *
"Down goes Bermas..., Down goes Bermas" !
Dog Town is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 07:22 PM   #24
Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
 
Gravy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
Originally Posted by Dog Town View Post
* In the voice of Howie C *
"Down goes Bermas..., Down goes Bermas" !
My favorite Cosell fight quote: "Oh! Oh! Spinks is befuddled!"
__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links
Gravy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 07:40 PM   #25
Kochanski
Illuminator
 
Kochanski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Anonymous Unimportant Place (not a secret Scorpion training facility for Shosuro ninjas)
Posts: 3,106
Damn, wish I got down there today. I was around Astor Place in the afternoon, but had a few errands to run. Would have loved to have seen the fun.
__________________
The faith of a skeptic is always in doubt
Ninja weasel courtesy of http://www.cheeseweasel.net
LI Who - It's about Time
http://longislanddoctorwho.com/
Kochanski is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 07:40 PM   #26
Dog Town
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,862
Quote:
"Oh! Oh! Spinks is befuddled!"
Same deal, "Bermas Befuddled" has a familiar ring to it. Hello!
I call it in the 3rd!
Dog Town is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 07:50 PM   #27
Brainache
Nasty Brutish and Tall
 
Brainache's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 17,050
Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
Yeah, that'll be great.

May I risk a small request? Could the cameraman be a little more careful with the exposure next time (the "iris")? Maybe you could put it on "automatic". The video was great last time but it was way too overexposed.

Sorry for this minor criticism but it would help have a better picture of these nuts... litterally

I agree. I loved the content, I just wish the camera work was a bit more steady and the exposure levels a bit less blown out.
God I would love to shoot some footage with you guys, but seeing as how I'm about ten thousand miles away, the bloody zoom lens on my old analogue home video camera can't cope.
But either way I can't wait for the next episode of "Abby Does Avery".
Brainache is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 07:59 PM   #28
Abbyas
Muse
 
Abbyas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 684
Quote:
I agree. I loved the content, I just wish the camera work was a bit more steady and the exposure levels a bit less blown out.
I plead google video on some of this. It looked better on the computer.

But, yes, my co-producer and the only one of the two of us that knows anything about camera stuff didn't think to use the day filter.
Abbyas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 08:35 PM   #29
Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
 
Gravy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
Some photos from Ground Zero today

Dave Von Kliest, who started the whole 9/11 conspiracy video craze with In Plane Sight, and whose shirt reads "What is this flash?" Answer: the very last of your functioning brain synapses short-circuiting, Dave.

The other deniers left him alone.

I had a long talk with Willie Rodriguez. It was fascinating. Very nice guy, very sincere. It looks like we're arguing, but we're not. It was a very pleasant conversation. The first thing I did was to thank him for risking his life to save others on 9/11. I'll give a thorough report on our conversation in my LC guide update. Yesterday he received from the Port Authority the recordings of him on the radio at the WTC on 9/11. It was the first time he had heard them. He said he cried all night.

Photo by Abby


Jim Fetzer made an appearance.

That's Abby on the left. RealityBites is disguised as a biker chick at right.

I'll write up my Alex Jones encounter when I get my act together. It was a scream. Literally.

Egad. I just noticed that my hands are still much paler than my forearms, from wearing cycling gloves on two long trips. I haven't worn cycling gloves since the last one, which was three years ago! People, whatever you do, don't ever go out in the sun.
__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links
Gravy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 08:48 PM   #30
David Wong
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,773
Originally Posted by Gravy View Post

Jim Fetzer made an appearance.

If you look closely you'll see that's actually Flava Flav.
David Wong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 08:50 PM   #31
kevin
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,666
Originally Posted by David Wong View Post
If you look closely you'll see that's actually Flava Flav.
Man, he didn't age well at all.
kevin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 08:51 PM   #32
Lisa Simpson
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 22,250
He got a bit...whiter, too.
Lisa Simpson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 09:09 PM   #33
David Wong
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,773
Still knows what time it is, though.
David Wong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 09:17 PM   #34
NickUK
Critical Thinker
 
NickUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 498
Originally Posted by David Wong View Post
If you look closely you'll see that's actually Flava Flav.
Fear Of A Black Planet...

Track 3...

Can't be coincidental, surely?
NickUK is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 09:18 PM   #35
Kent1
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,179
I wish I was there with you guys. I might be heading out to NY on business in mid October. No question if I'm there I will check out the WTC area.
Kent1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 09:35 PM   #36
CptColumbo
Just One More Question
 
CptColumbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Lots of places
Posts: 9,237
Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson View Post
He got a bit...whiter, too.
Like Gravy said, "don't ever go out in the sun."
__________________
I've been involved in a lot of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.--Creed, "The Office"
The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be only found in the minds of men. Prejudices and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own.--Rod Serling
CptColumbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 09:46 PM   #37
Alareth
Philosopher
 
Alareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 7,682
Originally Posted by David Wong View Post
Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Jim Fetzer made an appearance.
If you look closely you'll see that's actually Flava Flav.
Make that Flava Fetz


Alareth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2006, 10:30 PM   #38
JamesB
Master Poster
 
JamesB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,152
Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
I didn't get to talk to him, but he apparently told Abby that he had one stipulation: he wants to be able to use his computer during the debate. I think it's a grand idea. Look what Google has done for him so far!

Good job guys, and gals. Make sure to video it for those of us on the other coast. If he uses a laptop, someone make sure to jam his wireless, just to watch him freak out when he suddenly has to start thinking for himself


They control the weather, man didn't land on the moon, Lynne Cheney is on the board of directors of Hallburton and helped Marvin Bush plant thermite in the World Tade Center, Ack!
__________________
I said lots of things in NPH that I would not say today and that I did not repeat in NPHR, where I specifically corrected at least some of the errors I had made in that earlier book, written 5 years ago.
-David Ray Griffin-
JamesB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2006, 01:08 PM   #39
negativ
Graduate Poster
 
negativ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,904
Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
I think my name is now Mark Ferguson Iradian Curley Bennett Ferran Fillintheblank Roberts. The Loosers will remind me if I missed anyone.
Change "Fillintheblank" to "Ghengis Adonis Osmosis". It rolls off the tongue a bit more gracefully.

ETA: What are the chances of getting him to "debate" Buzz Aldrin about the moon landings, too?

Last edited by negativ; 11th September 2006 at 01:27 PM.
negativ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2006, 01:16 PM   #40
TobiasTheViking
Resident Viking Autist
 
TobiasTheViking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,925
YAY, go abby, go abby
__________________
He pricked me with his prick that prick - NobbyNobbs
Endearingly Obnoxious - Rebecca Watson
TobiasTheViking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:15 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.