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Old 28th November 2006, 08:16 PM   #1841
Canadian Malcontent
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Originally Posted by kurious_kathy View Post
I think a graven image is the same thing as an idol which is anything you value or think more important than God. Your wife, your house, your boat, your education, your job, ect...

"Thou shalt not make any likeness (italics mine), nor any graven image..."
A likeness is a photograph, an abstract charcoal rendition...anything.
So by the Law ( followed by the Muslims in their mosques), demands that you make no attempt to recreate or represent Gods creation.
ANY LIKENESS is a sin. No two ways about it.
Now Thats Fundamentalism !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
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Old 28th November 2006, 08:46 PM   #1842
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
I was so hoping you'd finish that with

"Kiss me, Kate!"

since she calls herself Kathy.

I realize not everyone likes Shakespeare the way I do.
What would you call such a work?

I suggest, "The Shaming of the True". (as in Believer)
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Old 29th November 2006, 07:39 AM   #1843
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“True Believer” equals “Limited Thinker” equals “Blind Follower” equals “Magical Thinking”.

Paul



Heavy on the magic.
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Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
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Old 29th November 2006, 07:57 AM   #1844
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OK back to the original OP about bumper stickers, I have a suggestion.

"Welcome to religious fundamentalism, please check your mind at the door."

P.S. Note that I am not singling out Christians.
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Old 29th November 2006, 08:01 AM   #1845
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I almost overdosed and it was God that kept me alive dude. If you choose not to believe me that's your problem.
Almost overdosed is that like a little bit pregnant?

People OD every day. In fact some of them even live due to medical science.

Quote:
It really was a near death experience and I came face to face with my demons and now know it's because of Christ anyone get set free and saved. Life & Salvation are miracles!
So you almost ODed and had a vision. Exactly what were you on at the time and have you even bothered to look up the effects of the drug and what it could do to you as far as visions, voices in your head, etc.?

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Old 29th November 2006, 08:01 AM   #1846
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"True Believer" equals "True Dogma"

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For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST"
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
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Old 29th November 2006, 08:10 AM   #1847
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Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent View Post
"Thou shalt not make any likeness (italics mine), nor any graven image..."
A likeness is a photograph, an abstract charcoal rendition...anything.
So by the Law ( followed by the Muslims in their mosques), demands that you make no attempt to recreate or represent Gods creation.
ANY LIKENESS is a sin. No two ways about it.
Now Thats Fundamentalism !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

Most Christians ignore this part of the bible (along with many others). This is one of my biggest issues with (some) Christians: They'll rant and rave about things like homosexuality because it's mentioned in the bible as bad, yet they willfully choose to ignore direct orders from god in the same bible.

If you pick and choose what parts of the bible to use, it diminishes any legitimacy it might have.
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Thoughts of the Chaplain in Heller's Catch-22

Last edited by Freethinker; 29th November 2006 at 08:11 AM. Reason: samebible.ne.same bible
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Old 29th November 2006, 08:15 AM   #1848
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True believers, they cherry-pick the bible.

Paul

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For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST"
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
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Old 29th November 2006, 08:24 AM   #1849
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Strictly, I think, it is not a image of YHWH, but an image of the earthly manifestation of the second person of the trinity, so there!
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Old 29th November 2006, 08:33 AM   #1850
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True Believers, see what they want to see, and disregard the rest.

Paul

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For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST"
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
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Old 29th November 2006, 12:30 PM   #1851
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Originally Posted by Paulhoff View Post
True Believers, see what they want to see, and disregard the rest.

Paul

That's not true at all. There are plenty of things that are just down right painful to see and know. Do you really think it's easy for someone like me to admit how much sin was in my past and not feel the effects of it? Oh please.

I live with that heart ache everyday and sometimes still dwell too much on wishing I could change it. I guess the most important thing is that I have learned what not to do now. Nobody gets away from the stain that sin leaves on us in this life. That's why it's awesome when we finally know Christ because we have that hope and promise of being cleansed in the next life. One day he will wipe away every tear from our eyes. These words mean a lot to me.

So what am I disreguarding Paul?
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Old 29th November 2006, 12:59 PM   #1852
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Originally Posted by kurious_kathy View Post
Do you really think it's easy for someone like me to admit how much sin was in my past and not feel the effects of it? Oh please.

I live with that heart ache everyday and sometimes still dwell too much on wishing I could change it.
And there lies the true evil in organized religion. Creating guilt for things we do that are human nature. Since the church purports to hold the only key to getting us forgiven for those sins, they ensnare the troubled.
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Thoughts of the Chaplain in Heller's Catch-22
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Old 29th November 2006, 01:16 PM   #1853
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First thing first, there is no sin, there are ways things work well and ways that they don’t work well or not at all. So you just try to learn from those that don’t work will and don’t do them again. Also there are no demons, but since you buy into that god and Jesus thing, you will not believe that. You want something you can blame your mistakes on, so you have demons, when in truth you made some bad decisions, (which we all do, some worse then others) but I don’t blame them on things that don’t exist. You want forgiveness, that is easy, don’t do it again. Apparently no one who really counts to you gave you forgiveness, so you had to reach out and now you think you have found it thru something that is not there. Well all I can say to you is, did you learn, and if so I don’t care about your mistakes.

Paul

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For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST"
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing

Last edited by Paulhoff; 29th November 2006 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 29th November 2006, 01:23 PM   #1854
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Originally Posted by kurious_kathy View Post
That's not true at all. There are plenty of things that are just down right painful to see and know. Do you really think it's easy for someone like me to admit how much sin was in my past and not feel the effects of it? Oh please.

I live with that heart ache everyday and sometimes still dwell too much on wishing I could change it. I guess the most important thing is that I have learned what not to do now. Nobody gets away from the stain that sin leaves on us in this life. That's why it's awesome when we finally know Christ because we have that hope and promise of being cleansed in the next life. One day he will wipe away every tear from our eyes. These words mean a lot to me.

So what am I disreguarding Paul?

I don't think anyone is saying you're disregarding your own past.

I think the claim is that you are disregarding inconvenient parts of the Bible.
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Old 29th November 2006, 02:11 PM   #1855
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kurious_kathy
Quote:
Quote:
True Believers, see what they want to see, and disregard the rest.

Paul
That's not true at all. There are plenty of things that are just down right painful to see and know. Do you really think it's easy for someone like me to admit how much sin was in my past and not feel the effects of it? Oh please.
You’ve got a disconnect there. Paul was referring to the bible and the cherry picking that all Christians perform. The more devout the more cherry picking is required.

Now go back and comment on what Paul actually wrote, not your strawman.

Ossai
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The other moral to be drawn from the story [of Job] is that if you lead a good virtuous life, God will urge Satan to kill your family for a bet. Perhaps you should try to sin a little now and then, just to keep your children safe.
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Old 29th November 2006, 02:53 PM   #1856
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Originally Posted by Tricky View Post
What would you call such a work?

I suggest, "The Shaming of the True". (as in Believer)
One draft Shiner Bock for you, Tricky, that was well played.

DR
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Old 29th November 2006, 05:45 PM   #1857
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Originally Posted by Paulhoff View Post
True Believers, see what they want to see, and disregard the rest.
And, clearly, the same is true of you.
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Old 29th November 2006, 06:11 PM   #1858
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
One draft Shiner Bock for you, Tricky, that was well played.
Thank you for getting it. I was afraid no one would make the connection, not knowing that "Kiss Me Kate is the Broadway adaptation of "Taming of the Shrew". (Mercutio, our regular Bardophile has been absent from this thread).

I'll have a Miller High Life, thanks.
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Old 29th November 2006, 07:49 PM   #1859
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Originally Posted by kurious_kathy View Post
I think a graven image is the same thing as an idol which is anything you value or think more important than God. Your wife, your house, your boat, your education, your job, ect...
Kathy, you're a nice person and I respect that. So please don't think I'm just crassly bashing you when I say that I feel your statement is preposterous.

I find the idea that I should love an undetectable, immeasurable "being" more than my own wife and son to be appalling. My wife and son are real. Jesus is no more present in the world than Isis.
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Old 29th November 2006, 08:16 PM   #1860
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Originally Posted by Huntster View Post
And, clearly, the same is true of you.
How little you know, even less then you may think.

Paul



I know when I see and or hear magic.
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For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST"
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
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Old 30th November 2006, 07:19 AM   #1861
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What you skeptic types are always missing, maybe cuz yer bizzy 'xamining belly-button lint in a lab somewhere, is that God exists within the individual.
You do not get good marks in high school drama class by applying your math skills with all your might.
If God exists in my heart then he exists, if my Creator forgives me then I am forgiven COMPLETELY.
How do you guys feel? Do you feel forgiven? Washed in the blood of the Lamb as it were? Do you feel an intimate connection with every living thing and know with absolute surety your place and purpose here?

Calculus and scaramouche.
Apples and oranges

It is nice to see the 1st Commandment held up to examination here.
My KJV clearly states

"Thou shalt not make any graven image nor any likeness of any thing that is in heavan above on the earth below or in the seas beneath the earth."

This, to me, could not be clearer. To take a photo is sinful, against the will of God. I am not saying stop taking pictures or God will reject you, I dont think He is putting picture taking at the top of His priority list in His relationship with you. But for Chrit's sake brethren, ADMIT that photographs are sinful. Maybe we would be spiritually much better off if we lived in the absence of likeness' or with minimal likeness' in our lives?
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Old 30th November 2006, 07:36 AM   #1862
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Actually, CM, the problem is that when you take someone's photo, you capture a bit of their soul. That is why there are so few people nowadays who believe in God. Over the years of picture taking by parents and well meaning family and friends, their souls have just been sucked away. They have no way to recognize the divine anymore.
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Old 30th November 2006, 07:36 AM   #1863
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Canadian Malcontent

Are you George Wackjob Bush writer.

Paul

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For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST"
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
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Old 30th November 2006, 08:01 AM   #1864
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What you skeptic types are always missing, maybe cuz yer bizzy 'xamining belly-button lint in a lab somewhere, is that God exists within the individual.
Whoo, hoo I’m god! You just said so!

Quote:
If God exists in my heart then he exists, if my Creator forgives me then I am forgiven COMPLETELY.
Who needs police, trials and judges? Just forgive yourself.

Quote:
How do you guys feel? Do you feel forgiven? Washed in the blood of the Lamb as it were? Do you feel an intimate connection with every living thing and know with absolute surety your place and purpose here?
Yep, I say so and since I’m god it must be true.

Quote:
It is nice to see the 1st Commandment held up to examination here.
My KJV clearly states

"Thou shalt not make any graven image nor any likeness of any thing that is in heavan above on the earth below or in the seas beneath the earth."

This, to me, could not be clearer. To take a photo is sinful, against the will of God. I am not saying stop taking pictures or God will reject you, I dont think He is putting picture taking at the top of His priority list in His relationship with you.
Um, actually since it is the first commandment it pretty much is at the top.
But, since I’m god I may forgive you anyway, unless you are a sports fan. All sports fans are immediately sent to hell and forced to continuously watch Lifetime and Oh! until they embrace their feminism side (or convincingly fake it). That'll give me more time with the ladies.

Ossai
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Old 30th November 2006, 08:13 AM   #1865
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Originally Posted by Ossai View Post
But, since I’m god I may forgive you anyway, unless you are a sports fan. All sports fans are immediately sent to hell and forced to continuously watch Lifetime and Oh! until they embrace their feminism side (or convincingly fake it).

Ossai
That would be evidence that you are the Devil, as this course of action is a text book case of pure evil.

Go Cowboys!

DR
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Old 30th November 2006, 08:29 AM   #1866
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Originally Posted by BPScooter View Post
Hey all, I only jumped in with the "comma" post because it's sort of ridiculous, after all, to make a big deal about mode of expression in certain places. I like to be careful when I post, because I've had the training in my native English and am fairly rightously peevish with the new "discourse" when it don't follow no rules.

Please forgive but I have not followed the detailed theology lately. It sounds like kathy is rightous and condescending, to me. She likely has very good personal reasons for this, yet these reasons may not be based on the widely shared truths/facts of others. So it goes.
To me it sounds like Kathy is filled with the Spirit; eternally grateful for the gift of spiritual life and for the salvation of her worldly life and the oppurtunity work in the world and glorify God in her life, shining and bubbling with the lovingkindness of the Lord and her newfound ability to touch other living creations with the same, eager to share the gift of Life and the deep abiding security and happiness that it brings with others.

Like Martha says; "Its a good thing."
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Old 30th November 2006, 08:47 AM   #1867
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Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent View Post
To me it sounds like Kathy is filled with the Spirit; eternally grateful for the gift of spiritual life and for the salvation of her worldly life and the oppurtunity work in the world and glorify God in her life, shining and bubbling with the lovingkindness of the Lord and her newfound ability to touch other living creations with the same, eager to share the gift of Life and the deep abiding security and happiness that it brings with others.

Like Martha says; "Its a good thing."
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Old 30th November 2006, 08:52 AM   #1868
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Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent View Post
This, to me, could not be clearer. To take a photo is sinful, against the will of God.
Man, you're really starting to look like a troll, here.
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Old 30th November 2006, 08:53 AM   #1869
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Originally Posted by boojum View Post
Man, you're really starting to look like a troll, here.
Or an Arab. (Ref T. E. Lawrence's experiences)

DR
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Old 30th November 2006, 08:57 AM   #1870
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Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent View Post
To me it sounds like Kathy is filled with the Spirit; eternally grateful for the gift of spiritual life and for the salvation of her worldly life and the oppurtunity work in the world and glorify God in her life, shining and bubbling with the lovingkindness of the Lord and her newfound ability to touch other living creations with the same, eager to share the gift of Life and the deep abiding security and happiness that it brings with others.
She may be so filled with Spirit that it is bursting from all of her orifices, but she is not filled with understanding, compassion, empathy or many of the other qualities we associate with "good" people. I am sure she intends to be good, but she simply doesn't seem to have the tools for it. That she cannot seem to fathom how her comments have offended people seems to reinforce that position.

Think if a person were raised somewhere where the "n-word" was used commonly and without malice. If that person came to a place and used the "n-word" and discovered that it was indeed hurtful to others, a smart person would stop using it. A thoughtless person would continue to use it and say, "but I only mean it in the nicest sense." That thoughtless person would not listen to people's explanations of how that word had hurt them, but would instead deny that the people had been hurt by it.
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Old 30th November 2006, 09:12 AM   #1871
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Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent View Post
To me it sounds like Kathy is filled with the Spirit;
I think she sounds like she's full of something too!
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Old 30th November 2006, 09:16 AM   #1872
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Originally Posted by Tricky View Post
She may be so filled with Spirit that it is bursting from all of her orifices, but she is not filled with understanding, compassion, empathy or many of the other qualities we associate with "good" people. I am sure she intends to be good, but she simply doesn't seem to have the tools for it. That she cannot seem to fathom how her comments have offended people seems to reinforce that position.

Think if a person were raised somewhere where the "n-word" was used commonly and without malice. If that person came to a place and used the "n-word" and discovered that it was indeed hurtful to others, a smart person would stop using it. A thoughtless person would continue to use it and say, "but I only mean it in the nicest sense." That thoughtless person would not listen to people's explanations of how that word had hurt them, but would instead deny that the people had been hurt by it.
Dave Chapelle piece on Comedy Central last night was a hoot: his aim was to take the piss out of the latest call to ban the word n!99er from use. A bit heavy handed, but he made a point.



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Old 30th November 2006, 09:19 AM   #1873
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Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent View Post
If God exists in my heart then he exists, if my Creator forgives me then I am forgiven COMPLETELY.
How do you guys feel? Do you feel forgiven? Washed in the blood of the Lamb as it were? Do you feel an intimate connection with every living thing and know with absolute surety your place and purpose here?
What is that saying about not being able to tell the difference between satire and belief. I have no idea if you are serious. I suspect that you are.

My creator forgives me 93.3333% Screw him if he can't take a joke.
I feel like having breakfast but I'm too lazy to fix it.
I feel groggy, I haven't had my coffee yet.
I haven't had a shower yet this morning but when I do it will be with water.
I prefer to have intimate connections with non-living things like beer. It rarely disappoints me except when it gives me gas.
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Old 30th November 2006, 10:54 AM   #1874
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
I prefer to have intimate connections with non-living things like beer. It rarely disappoints me except when it gives me gas.
And beer never gets angry with you for picking up another beer.
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Old 30th November 2006, 10:57 AM   #1875
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
I prefer to have intimate connections with non-living things like beer.
You should try what we call over here 'Real Ales' because they are not dead - the yeast continues to ferment, I think, a bit in the bottle or cask. Mmmm, beer.
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Old 30th November 2006, 11:08 AM   #1876
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I am just trying to illustrate the thread
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Old 30th November 2006, 11:14 AM   #1877
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
What is that saying about not being able to tell the difference between satire and belief. I have no idea if you are serious. I suspect that you are.

My creator forgives me 93.3333% Screw him if he can't take a joke.
I feel like having breakfast but I'm too lazy to fix it.
I feel groggy, I haven't had my coffee yet.
I haven't had a shower yet this morning but when I do it will be with water.
I prefer to have intimate connections with non-living things like beer. It rarely disappoints me except when it gives me gas.
Somebody has quite an attitude going on here. Tell me RF what made you become an apostate?
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Old 30th November 2006, 11:22 AM   #1878
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Kathy, you're a nice person and I respect that. So please don't think I'm just crassly bashing you when I say that I feel your statement is preposterous.
Thanks for at least saying you think I'm nice. I really do care about people and if I didn't I wouldn't even be trying to share what I know to be things of concern with others.

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
I find the idea that I should love an undetectable, immeasurable "being" more than my own wife and son to be appalling. My wife and son are real. Jesus is no more present in the world than Isis.
Isis is a made up myth, but I assure you Jesus is not. He's as much alive today as He ever was, even though we can't see Him, he's there.
And your wife and son are a blessing to you from him so very much treasure that. In all things we need to learn to give thanks to the one who gave us all good things. I say we can all use an attitude adjustment!
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Old 30th November 2006, 11:33 AM   #1879
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Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent View Post
What you skeptic types are always missing, maybe cuz yer bizzy 'xamining belly-button lint in a lab somewhere, is that God exists within the individual.
You should have stuck to the drinking, mate. I preferred you so much more when you were abusive and looking for a scrap. This stuff's just tedious.

You're not Kathy's dad are you?
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Old 30th November 2006, 11:44 AM   #1880
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Darth Rotor
Quote:
That would be evidence that you are the Devil, as this course of action is a text book case of pure evil.
I, as god, never claimed to be good.


Canadian Malcontent
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I am just trying to illustrate the thread
So where are the images?


kurious_kathy
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Thanks for at least saying you think I'm nice. I really do care about people and if I didn't I wouldn't even be trying to share what I know to be things of concern with others.
Apparently you still haven’t figured it out. Those things that you think are “of concern with other”, aren’t.

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