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#41 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
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Newsflash! Major media headlines:
"12 Miners Found Alive 41 Hours After Explosion" "Twelve Alive." "Joy At Mine: 12 Are Alive." "They're Alive." "12 Found Alive in W. Va. Coal Mine" "Miracle at Sago, 12 Miners Alive." 13 miners were trapped. Only one was found alive. Conspiracy? On the other hand, reports of Mark Twain's death were "greatly exaggerated." Until he died, that is. In other news, ![]() |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#42 |
Banned
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#43 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,433
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Do you really not understand the difference? They are talking about the probability that a certain scenario was the cause of the collapse. They are not talking about whether or not it was very probable that it was going to collapse based upon observations on 9/11. It is one thing to look at the building and notice it is damaged or bowing but it is an entirely different thing to figure out what mechanism caused the problem. |
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#44 |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#45 |
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#46 |
Philosopher
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#47 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,188
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Is it established that:
A. The times shown on the video are correct? B. That the building shown behind Jane Standly is indeed WTC 7? I'll admit that it certainly looks like that building. Of course, in my mind the notion that the BBC had gotten the story that WTC 7 was in imminent danger of collapse and jumped the gun is far more plausible than... what exactly is the theory that the CTers propose here? The film implies that the "press release" was accidentally sent out too early. Why would there need to be a "press release" about a 47-story building collapsing? |
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#48 |
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#49 |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#50 |
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#51 |
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#52 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
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And the reporter knew that? Obviously not, just as the reporters at the Sego mine disaster didn't know the men were dead, that the reporters who wrote Twain's obituary didn't know he was alive, and the papers that printed that Dewey had won didn't know he had lost. All reported unverified information.
Get it? |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#53 |
Muse
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 571
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I do remember watching the 9/11 rebroadcast on CNN's Web site last September and noticing that they reported about an hour and 20 minutes before WTC7's collapse that there were strong expectations that the building was going to fall. They already had a camera trained on it; in fact, it looked like the same camera angle of the collapse video that CTers think looks like a controlled demolition. Cameras were pointing at WTC7 for well over an hour before the collapse because everyone there knew that it was very likely to fall.
As for the BBC not noticing the building was still standing when they were making the reports, well, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they had no idea which building they were talking about anyway. I've seen enough laughably inaccurate maps of NYC and DC on the BBC's Web site to know that that organization is not made up entirely of experts on American cities. edit: For that matter, how many people on this very forum, debunker or CT, could have identified Seven World Trade Center on sight before 9/11 happened? How many of you were even aware that there were that many buildings in the WTC complex? So would a random British reporter necessarily recognize what was at the time a relatively obscure skyscraper in a city full of famous skyscrapers? |
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#54 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,188
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You're confusing two separate issues. The actual collapse mechanism is still unknown. That the building was likely to collapse was known by observation--the transit that FDNY fixed on the WTC 7 revealed that the building was moving. Of course, you could say that the fact that FDNY focused a transit on a burning steel structure was suspicious in itself, given that no steel highrise... etc.
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#55 |
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#56 |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Yes, the news crews were told to expect a collapse. Here, Ashleigh Banfield of MSNBC is interviewing a woman when WTC 7 collapses in the background. Banfield: “This is it!” Newsman Brian Williams: “What we’ve been fearing all afternoon has apparently happened. We’ve been watching number seven World Trade, which was part of the ancillary damage of the explosion and collapse of the other two.” Watch it here: http://tinyurl.com/o58sa
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#57 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,986
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Hm. I wonder what time it was on EDT.
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#58 |
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#59 |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#60 |
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#61 |
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#62 |
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#63 |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#64 |
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#65 |
Muse
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 571
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In the picture at the beginning of this thread --
...it sure doesn't look to me like she's all that close to the WTC anyway. From what I can see in the background I'd say she's at least in lower midtown, maybe the Gramercy Park area, which would put her more than a mile away from the WTC. |
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#66 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,104
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Go look up "transit" and "surveying tools" on the web somewhere.
They had a transit trained on the obvious bulge, and could actually measure (a term unfamiliar to you idiots who deal only with the subjective) the change in the area undergoing buckling. At some point, the rate of change made it obvious that the building was going to go. And go study statistics and engineering a bit. In this case, "A low probability of occurance" means that the building's design criteria did not include protecting against 2 113-storey buildings collapsing nearby, showering it with heavy, flaming debris and causing massive damage and wide-spread fires. Just as a photon torpedo from a Klingon cruiser chasing the JSF is a low-probability occurance for a fighter aircraft--we don't design for it. If it should happen, though... We would ave to analyse the wreckage (if any), and the most likely hypothesis would have a low probability of ever happening. The space-shuttle disasters are good examples. |
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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#67 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,188
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What they observed was that the building was moving. Obviously the fact that the building was moving was not the cause of the movement. Suppose you see a car accident about to happen. What is the cause of the car accident? Well, obviously in one sense it is caused by two cars trying to occupy the same space at the same time, and that is in fact what you see. What you may not see is that one of the drivers was drunk; this can be determined later, through blood testing.
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#68 |
Proud Award Award recipient
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,068
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For now we have two possible explanations:
Doesn't seem a hard case to crack. |
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The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan |
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#69 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,545
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Everybody had better forget that Govt bonus.
Looks like those pesky kids have rumbled the plot again. Damn that reporter, shes lucky if she gets toilet detail at the office now. ![]() |
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#70 |
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The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan |
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#71 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,473
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A best hypotheses has the highest probability of being valid from a list of all the hypotheses.
If it was the only hypotheses the use of "best" would make no logical sense. If this best hypotheses is deemed to have a low probability of occurence, then Gravy, it's only logical that all the remaining explanations considered for the collapse of the WTC7, have to have been considered less than best hypotheses, and would therefore FEMA believes them to have an even lower probability of occurence. MM |
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#72 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,008
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Twoofers clutching at straws so short they barely exist, yet again......
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#73 |
Writer of Nothingnesses
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,156
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Yep!
My ex-wife and I were on top of WTC 2 in May, 2001. We did not know it was called WTC 2 or the South Tower. All we knew is that they took us up to the top of the tower that did not have the big antenna on top of it. We didn't know there were other "WTC" buildings. Had no idea there was a "Building 7". On 9/11, while watching the TeeVee, when the news folks kept referring to this "other WTC building" maybe collapsing, we had no idea what building that really was, or even how they knew that it was probably going to come down. But, it seemed perfectly within reason that after these 2 big buildings collapsed, that certainly other buildings nearby could have been damaged, set afire or whatever. And could collapse. |
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#74 |
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#75 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
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I'll retract that. Although FEMA specifically mentions the diesel fuel hypothesis when saying "low probability of occurrence," they may be referring to any of their collapse hypotheses, and I'm fine with that idea.
It's interesting that conspiracists focus on this statement, in a report that FEMA and everyone else says was brief, preliminary, and inconclusive. FEMA said that further study was needed on a host of issues. That's what NIST has been doing. And conspiracists will only be satisfied if NIST determines that there is no rational explanation for WTC 7's collapse that does not involve explosives. So sad. |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#76 |
Writer of Nothingnesses
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#77 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Sep 2006
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There are literally dozens of us nationwide. |
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#78 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,075
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Had something like this happen to me - 6 months before 9/11 (March 2001)
was in class for Weapons of Mass Destruction Operations (taught how to recognize if WMD is occuring and how to evacuate, treat victims) when our instructor (NWO stooge) pointed to the cover of our text - the infamous rifle scope targeting WTC and said that they would be back (meaning Bin Laden). Strange how he knew what was going to happen. Looks like let secret out. |
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#79 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,473
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Transit readings don't translate into a forecast of high speed, symmetrical, complete building collapses. For all the firefighters knew, a section of WTC7 was possibly going to collapse. It's not unusual for damaged buildings to drop large debris from severely damaged areas of the structure.
WTC7 was hit by debris from WTC1, a 110 storey building. I recall no report of a shower of heavy flaming debris. Klingon cruisers are fantasy but if you feel that's required to support your comments than be my guest. MM |
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#80 |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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