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#81 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
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When you read their accounts, you'll see that the firefighters, controlled demolitions experts, and engineers believed that WTC 7 would collapse, due to the severity of the fires and damage. The collapse of two huge skyscrapers from fire and damage, earlier in the day, across the street, no doubt weighed heavily on their minds.
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#82 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 980
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The Bad Guys Always Confess
Conspiracy people have a few strange ideas stuck in their brains. One of them is that the bad guys always confess.
In the Bizarro World of conspiracy theorists, the perps are forever spilling the beans and blurting out the truth. But no one can perceive it except the conspiracy guys. We've seen this mental glitch too many times to ignore it. The CTs think Silverstein admitted that he blew WTC7. They think Cheney confessed to shooting down one of the planes (or something). They think the bad guys had a TV movie made to give away the plot. It's all right there. It's all terribly obvious. But only the conspiracy guys see it! And here we go again. Once again, the bad guys have slipped up and given the game away. It's just so obvious... ...but only the conspiracy guys are smart enough to get it, natch. Do Truthers ever perceive this pattern in their own thinking? Silly question. |
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#83 |
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,252
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Other reports from the day
The Capitol Building had been attacked, and a truck bomb had exploded outside the Congressional Library. At the Pentagon, an LPG Tank had exploded. Then a helicopter had crashed on take off Secret NWO agenda proof. Or a bunch of reporters scrambling to cover the biggest new story since Kennedy's death while trying to deal with their own emotions as events unfolded |
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#84 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,060
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Those pesky kids! They discovered our plot to take over the world! Now, for all twoofers, we have to build those spaceships quickly and send them all to Jupiter, where the aliens will take care of them!
*waits patiently for Alex Jones to stumble on this and use it on his radio show!* |
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I've accomplished more without film school than most people, such as yourself, will EVER accomplish. Period. Jealousy is a bitch, and I'm sorry you're experiencing it, but don't spew ******** like that and expect to not be corrected. This is why you were banned from my forums in the first place. - Dylan Avery on the budget of his film. |
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#85 |
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,986
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OK. I've just watched the video twice. The BBC says nothing at all about a press release. The liars who put this little propaganda gem together have injected talk of a "press release" into the discussion.
They also say EST time when it's EDT time in New York. However, the live shot of the reporter doesn't look greenscreened, and that's WTC 7 behind her. That's apparently a red herring. Finally, video ends with links to 911blogger.com (which has removed this video from their pages), pilotsfortruth.com, and thepentacon.com. More lies and misleading information from that gang of incompetents. |
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#86 |
Scholar
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 111
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#87 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
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Here's an example of how inaccurate the live reporting of a confusing event can be. I was at home on October 11, 2006, when Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle's small plane crashed into the 30th floor of a residential building in Manhattan. I took notes on some of the early TV and internet reports.
Four witnesses said it was a helicopter...WRONG “Conflicting reports whether it’s a fixed-wing or helicopter. Probably helicopter based on witness reports." "Believes it was a seaplane"...WRONG City and the FDNY have confirmed that a helicopter crashed into the building....WRONG UPDATE: NYC police and firemen now agree it was a helicopter instead of a small aircraft...WRONG WABC 7 reports that the helicopter was flying in "exclusion airspace."...WRONG Death count is four...WRONG (it was 2) A total of four people have been confirmed dead - two people from the plane, two people from the building...WRONG Update: A distress call was made before the crash...WRONG Latest reports say that the pilot made an emergency call about a fuel problem...WRONG The FAA confirmed that the pilot of the plane made a mayday, stating that he was having fuel problems...WRONG ABC Radio reports people in the area say they saw a helicopter in distress...WRONG ESPN confirms that Cory Lidle was alone in the plane...WRONG Where did the plane hit? 19th & 20th floor 20th floor 30th floor 32nd floor 40th floor 40th & 41st floor 30th-40th floor 44th & 45th floor (said it was a helicopter) Former Managing Director of NTSB Peter Goelz: "If I had to bet, I'd say it was probably a helicopter." Bit of a crapshoot, that live coverage of confusing events. |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#88 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,473
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It's interesting because a source that JREFers respect, FEMA, published an opinion that found a low probability for the BEST HYPOTHESES the FEMA experts could think of to explain the WTC7 collapse.
What is not unusual, is that an important statement like that would be a subject of interest for anyone seeking the Truth? It's also interesting how you, Gravy, can be so dismissive of an official opinion when it doesn't fit what you want to believe. MM |
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#89 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,104
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Do you truly believe that the rest of the world is as stupid as you seem to be?
Placing the transet on the bulge will,indeed, forecast a complete building collapse. As the distance bulged per unit time begins to increase, it takse no rocket scientist to see that the rate of change is increasing rapidly. And if you missed the point (as you obviously did), a fantasy is an extremely low probability event |
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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#90 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 895
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Where to begin?
Remember the Kursk? The Russian submarine that sank with all hands? We were treated to news stories of the gallant but despairing survivors alive in their metal tomb for days, courtesy of the media. In fact the hapless crew were all dead within seconds. Closer to home, I happened to be walking through Manchester city centre back in the 90's when those thoughtful Fenian rascals the IRA set off a bomb. One bomb, singular. By the time I got into our office HQ, the staff there were talking about up to sixteen bombs. Conflation, inaccuracy, media speculation, the sound dynamics of a city centre with lots of tall buildings, all played their part. Plus, back in the late 70's on Top of The Pops, DJ Peter Powell described Boney M's hit single "Brown Girl In The Ring" thus: " - and who could forget Boney M's single "Brown Eyed Girl In The Ring".' Opinions vary as to whether he was being absent-minded or ironic. |
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#91 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
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__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#92 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,918
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Chedda- not only do we know explosives were used because they called it an "explosion", we can deduce from the word "explosion" that it was clearly symtex or c4, and it was clearly planted by Mossad agents Shlomo Berkowitz and Chaim Goldstein.
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#93 |
Proud Award Award recipient
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,068
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I am very surprised by Dylan Avery's reaction to this non-event.
I tought he would react more or less like miragememories. But over at LCF he is gloating, doing as if this is some big thing, pep-talking his troups. Of course, he doesn't explain what it actually means. He doesn't give a narrative. His fans will be very disappointed when they realise within days that the world doesn't care for this empty "smoking gun". In the meantime, Alex Jones has joined the party, with the usual lies:
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The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan |
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#94 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
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Yes, I'm sure that when WTC 7 actually did collapse, the BBC said, "No! No! It collapsed earlier!...I mean, it was supposed to collapse earlier...I mean, it was on the shedyool for 4:55-5:00...I mean, that obviously is some other building...no, no, no, it's a replay!...that's right, a replay of the earlier collapse!...which as we reported happened at 4:57 eastern whatever time this afternoon!"
What blithering idiots. I hope at least Avery provides some good quotes for February. It's been slow the past few days. What happened to Stundie? |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#95 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
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Originally Posted by AJ
I wonder when he'll stop doing that. |
__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#96 |
Muse
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 539
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1. How do you know she DIDN'T wonder? Reporters read the news, they don't question it unless they are pretty darn sure it is incorrect. The kind of reflection it requires to pick up even fairly obvious errors is hard to muster while you are live on TV! 2. Who knows how much she knew about the WTC complex. The Saloman building may have been unknown to her. At this point lots of other buildings had been damaged or destroyed, maybe she was imagining building 6 in her mind. |
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#97 |
Proud Award Award recipient
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,068
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Alex Jones article has been expanded in the last few minutes, and it is a must read (lies, lies and some more lies).
A few quotes:
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Notice that the "NJ-EMT"-email is now used as a source. ![]() Someone should really explain to the CTist that the collapse of WTC 7 was not a surprise, it was anticipated. |
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The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan |
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#98 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,545
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Dylan is creaming himself there, a mistake made by a BBC reporter who had been fed incorrect info, means he can string his sad punters on for another crappy edition of lies.
If there really is a special place in hell, then Avery gets the hot seat everytime. He has no shame. And he has no honour. |
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#99 |
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,986
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#100 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,473
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Further study equates to further investigation. I've made no secret that the important goal is a full and proper investigation GRAVY. Nice how you leap at the opportunity to cut & paste your FEMA info but dodge my original response. To repeat; I stated, that of course anyone seeking the Truth would be interested in FEMA's original expert statement about why WTC7 collapsed. The fact that they said their best hypotheses to explain the collapse of WTC7 had a low probability of occurence was quite significant, especially given their access to all your rebuttal arguments and voluminous firefighter quotes. MM |
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#101 |
Scholar
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 111
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The more I watch, the more I am disgusted at this BBC hit piece on the 'Skeptic' Movement. How dare they attempt discredit all our loony theories involving 19 pissed-off Arabs with this news report.
I suggest we all bombard the BBC with letters, phone calls and emails of complaint. Hell, lets organise a 'False' rally outside their offices. 9/11 was an outside job! |
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#102 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,104
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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#103 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 980
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#104 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,094
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The difference is that FEMA are looking at the whole event, the firemen are making judgments as the event progressed. When the building is belching smoke, leaning, creaking and bulging, and you're not fighting fires, there's a pretty good chance that it's going to collapse. Firemen didn't make that judgment immediately after WTC7 was hit by debris - that is what FEMA had to try to work out: the whole sequence of the collapse, not the latter (more obvious) stages.
Also, I'm sure that both fire brigade and any news reporter would have described a partial collapse simply as "the building has collapsed". |
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#105 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,433
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I would agree if the report says best hypotheses is deemed to have a low probability of occurence . That would imply that other hypothesis that have been looked at were considered to have a lower probability of occurance.
This has nothing to do with if it was reasonable to assume that the building was going to collapse though. Also low probability of occurance doesn't mean it isn't the correct hypothesis. |
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#106 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,871
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The kids over at Dylan's play-pen are happy as hell yet they don't seem aware of what this all means.
Was the BBC tipped off in advance about the demolition and foolishly read the press release too early? THAT'S their explanation? You'd think Dylan would have learned a lesson about media reports in a chaotic situation. "Flight 93 landed in Cleveland," right Dylan? |
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#107 |
Hoku-maniac
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,905
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"If God wants 10% of my paycheck, he can get it himself. Or at least work for it -Kochanski "I may not be easy, but I am fast." - Hokulele "Oh CRAP... DQ!!" - Ol' Hokey, yet again |
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#108 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,871
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I urge everyone to check in on da twoofers at LC.
They really think THIS IS IT! Yup, THIS video will blow the case wide open. Damn are they ever gonna be dissapointed. How can that many posters ALL fail to grasp the absurd logical conclusion of this "conspiracy?" |
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#109 |
Hoku-maniac
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,905
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ya know, I would... but I got banned.
I am a sad panda ![]() |
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"If God wants 10% of my paycheck, he can get it himself. Or at least work for it -Kochanski "I may not be easy, but I am fast." - Hokulele "Oh CRAP... DQ!!" - Ol' Hokey, yet again |
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#110 |
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 917
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#111 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
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I'm sorry that you can't wrap your mind around simple concepts, and so keep repeating yourself in bold and underlined text. It makes me quite sad.
I hope some day you'll understand that the FEMA investigation was brief, preliminary, and necessarily inconclusive. Which is why further study commenced. I hope you will understand that, but I won't bet on it. |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#112 |
Game Warden
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,321
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Interesting that you capitalized the word "truth"... Keep in mind a couple of different things: 1) This was an early statement by NIST- their final report, and indeed statements since then, have involved more evidence and a more confident conclusion. 2) Low probability does not mean impossible. There was a low probability that these towers would be hit with planes. That probability changed as the planes were being hijacked- which of course only the hijackers knew. 3) The claim of lowest probability is that of a missile/death ray/cd/ufo/etc (so low, in fact, it's physically impossible). In fact, it's such a low probability that NIST only mentions it a few times- to satisfy those who lack a scientific inclination. |
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"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into." --Jonathan Swift Blog - Corrected By Reality. My debunking videos, and philosophy on YouTube Totovader's 9/11 Conspiracy Challenge Still unanswered! |
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#113 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
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__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#114 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,188
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We gotta come up with a term for this. It's like they've watched one too many episodes of Perry Mason or Columbo where the real killer always breaks down and confesses when confronted with a tough question, but it's even worse than that because these folks think the real killers break down when asked simple questions.
Something like "Codumbo" or "Perry 2nd-Degree Mason". |
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My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. |
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#115 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
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A correction here. The report MM is concerned about here is the FEMA/ASCE Building Assesment report. Theirs was a brief, underfunded, not well-organized study. Fortunately in 2002 enough people pushed for a much more thorough, better-funded study, and that's when NIST took over.
An interesting question, which the CTs never answer, is this: If this was all an inside job, and the engineers are all paid off or threatened, why did NIST's conclusions about the tower collapses differ radically from FEMA's? |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#116 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,871
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Today has been a great case study of the lemming mentality.
A BBC video surfaces which translates into a clear-cut case of Mistaken reporting vs. Illogical Conspiracy, and sure enough the twoofers stampede over the cliff in a mad dash. 99.9% of them don't even stop and ask "hey does this even make sense? What exactly are we saying here?" All they know is that it doesn't add up at first glance so it MUST be proof of a conspiracy. |
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#117 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
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__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#118 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
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I mentioned the Corey Lidle crash earlier. Here's how Dylan Avery would have reported the unfolding events:
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__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#119 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 399
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#120 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,871
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