ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » Welcome to ISF » Other Skeptical Organizations » JREF
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags eldon byrd , james randi , lawsuits

Reply
Old 29th June 2010, 10:56 PM   #41
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 36,378
Originally Posted by jimtron View Post
Think of all the charlatans Randi has debunked going back decades. If there was serious dirt out there don't you think one of them would have found it?

Folks are grasping at straws with this. Let us know when someone has evidence of wrongdoing. No one here is going to come up with a magic bullet that proves a negative.
Indeed.

FWIW, and in addition to Darat's link, there's this, which purports to be James Randi's comments on the matter in 1999.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...37993287?pli=1
__________________
Challenge your thoughts.
Don't believe everything you think.
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 01:22 AM   #42
Red3
Muse
 
Red3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 891
Originally Posted by Lucian View Post
How many people's chops can Randi reach? Was he standing on a chair? Unless his opponent was tiny, I would say it was hyperbole or figurative language.
It kinda sounds like he punched the guy:

Quote:
In front of an audience assembled to hear my lecture, I had the great pleasure of punching him out -- to a standing ovation. But it's little satisfaction, considering the damage that he and others like him, along with the principals, Geller, Warth and Byrd, have done to me.)
(http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...37993287?pli=1)
__________________
"I want to be cremated, and I want my ashes blown in Uri Geller's eyes." - James Randi.

IT'S A TRAP!

Last edited by Red3; 30th June 2010 at 01:25 AM.
Red3 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 02:24 AM   #43
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 39,639
Originally Posted by Red3 View Post
What he said. And what the hell is this about teenage boys? ANybody care to provide a recap? (No time to google - if it's even worth it)
Originally Posted by Red3 View Post
It kinda sounds like he punched the guy:



(http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...37993287?pli=1)

And the Skeptic (oops, Sceptic) Of The Day Award for June 30, 2010.... The envelope please, Priscilla......

It's Red3!!! (Crowd erupts in delirious shouts of approval and riotous applause)

From a somewhat dismissive, "... if it's even worth it", to digging into ancient articles for proof/evidence in less than 10 hours! That's what JREF is made of.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 02:34 AM   #44
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 36,378
Edit: Nevermind.
__________________
Challenge your thoughts.
Don't believe everything you think.

Last edited by Orphia Nay; 30th June 2010 at 03:24 AM.
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 03:20 AM   #45
Chris H
Magician Among Spirits
 
Chris H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 846
Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Who are you debating with? The professor?

Ha! Is there anywhere that guy hasn't been banned from?

Incidentally, Dave Koenig/"The Professor" dragged this dead horse from it's coffin 12 months ago, and continues to flog it to this day. He even went as far to post a link to a download site where the "sex tapes" were hosted. He went out of is way to thank "whoever posted these so we can all make up our own minds without outside interference". However I think it's likely that Koenig had something to do with the upload, considering his connections to Jim Callahan, and Jim's connection to Uri Geller. The files have since been removed from Uploadpedia, but if you want to read the 40 pages of dribble, along with dozens of pages of other Randi/JREF libel, knock yourself out.

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/for...wforum.php?f=7
Chris H is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 03:27 AM   #46
Chris H
Magician Among Spirits
 
Chris H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 846
Slightly off topic...

Whilst I've been rather happy to have nothing to do with Koenig since his permanent ban from both here and the Magic Cafe, something that was predicted by many non-psychics during the course of his MDC application has come to fruition. Koenig is promoting himself as "THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSED TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS PERFORMING AMAZING FEATS THAT DEFY EXPLANATION!!!!!". Good to see he hasn't got over his caps lock fixation.

http://www.myspace.com/professorslimking
Chris H is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 03:29 AM   #47
Red3
Muse
 
Red3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 891
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
And the Skeptic (oops, Sceptic) Of The Day Award for June 30, 2010.... The envelope please, Priscilla......

It's Red3!!! (Crowd erupts in delirious shouts of approval and riotous applause)

From a somewhat dismissive, "... if it's even worth it", to digging into ancient articles for proof/evidence in less than 10 hours! That's what JREF is made of.
Well, what can I say...

It's been a slow morning!
__________________
"I want to be cremated, and I want my ashes blown in Uri Geller's eyes." - James Randi.

IT'S A TRAP!
Red3 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 05:40 AM   #48
Paulhoff
You can't expect perfection.
 
Paulhoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12,504
Funny, I looked at that page and the word SEX does not come up at all any where, the word "tape" yes, "sex" no.

Paul

__________________
For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST"
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
Paulhoff is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 06:07 AM   #49
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 60,054
Okay, wait. Tell me if I've got this wrong. Randi received obscene phone calls, and recorded them in order to provide them to the police. And this is a "sex tape"???

Seriously - Wuh - tuh - fuh?
__________________
Wake up, you cardboard.
- Pixie of Key
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 06:11 AM   #50
Paulhoff
You can't expect perfection.
 
Paulhoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12,504
Yea, makes one wonder how we made it out the trees with all the dead weight in the population.

Paul

__________________
For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST"
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
Paulhoff is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 08:08 AM   #51
jakesteele
Fait Accompli
 
jakesteele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rain City
Posts: 2,145
jakesteele has a birthday
Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Deny everything. Demand proof of everything from the person who you are debating with. If he cannot produce the tape it does not exist! If you are lucky he will only have second hand information and be unable to provide anything.

Who are you debating with? The professor?
As it stands right now Randi acknowledges making the tape, so apparently the tape is/was out there. His stated reason for doing so is anecdotal and hearsay on his part.

So, Randi admits to making a sex tape ‘allegedly’ to help the cops. Until the cops step forward and back him up with documentation, it’s no different from a person that says he was alone in his apartment on the night of the crime but can’t produce anyone to corroborate his statement. They just have his word for it.

In our legal system the accused is ‘innocent until proven guilty’ it is up to the accuser to prove their guilt, but when you have conclusive proof of something the accused did, especially by his own admission, the preponderance of the evidence shifts to the accuser’s side in support of their charge and the burden of proof shifts to the accused ‘to explain’.

Now you know damn well that if the shoe were on the other foot you would be sneering and mocking and demanding proof, evidence, links, charts, graphs, etc. Right now all we have is anecdotal evidence via his uncorroborated statement. And you know how debunkers love to tear into someone else’s anecdotal evidence. Randi should be put
under the same scrutiny and held to the same standards that he demands of others. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, what’s bad for the gander is bad for the goose.

If you’re going to play the skeptic game you have to be willing to apply it to yourself even when it burns and stings.

It’s exactly as Cavemonster said, the truth is the truth no matter what. It doesn’t matter what Randi or Einstein did; the facts is the facts. The most important thing to remember about Randi is what he’s accomplished and helped create.
__________________

There really was a man from Nantucket
jakesteele is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 08:28 AM   #52
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 84,548
Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
As it stands right now Randi acknowledges making the tape, so apparently the tape is/was out there. His stated reason for doing so is anecdotal and hearsay on his part.

So, Randi admits to making a sex tape ‘allegedly’ to help the cops.

...snip...
No he doesn't.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 09:54 AM   #53
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,876
This is ancient, Randi's explanation dates back over 10 years and I think even that was a repost. The 'tape' goes back to the 60's.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...5c281837993287

The problem you are going to have is that the people involved are very likely no longer at their jobs, it having been decades since this took place. You will need to file motions if you want more information, but frankly I doubt it is easy to come by even with legal help.

What is certain is this:

1) The Rumson police had this tape in their posession for decades and did not arrest Randi. That speaks volumes right there. It means the claims of the scumwads who bring this up (and those who enable their sleazy tactics) are not at all close to reality.

2) The major 'spreader' of this tape, one Eldon 'kid luvin' clown' Byrd was hardly one to accuse anyone of sexual impropriety. He also lost his US Navy job because he abused his position to get ahold of the tape.

3) Earl 'the psychotic psychic' Curley was close to being sued for spreading false claims about this tape, he drank himself to death before the suit could be brought.

Frankly, if the sleazeworm who is using this as defamation, he (or she) doesn't really deserve any replies.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.

Last edited by kookbreaker; 30th June 2010 at 09:56 AM.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 10:15 AM   #54
jimtron
Illuminator
 
jimtron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 3,104
Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
As it stands right now Randi acknowledges making the tape, so apparently the tape is/was out there. His stated reason for doing so is anecdotal and hearsay on his part.

So, Randi admits to making a sex tape ‘allegedly’ to help the cops. Until the cops step forward and back him up with documentation, it’s no different from a person that says he was alone in his apartment on the night of the crime but can’t produce anyone to corroborate his statement. They just have his word for it.

In our legal system the accused is ‘innocent until proven guilty’ it is up to the accuser to prove their guilt, but when you have conclusive proof of something the accused did, especially by his own admission, the preponderance of the evidence shifts to the accuser’s side in support of their charge and the burden of proof shifts to the accused ‘to explain’.

Now you know damn well that if the shoe were on the other foot you would be sneering and mocking and demanding proof, evidence, links, charts, graphs, etc. Right now all we have is anecdotal evidence via his uncorroborated statement. And you know how debunkers love to tear into someone else’s anecdotal evidence. Randi should be put
under the same scrutiny and held to the same standards that he demands of others. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, what’s bad for the gander is bad for the goose.

If you’re going to play the skeptic game you have to be willing to apply it to yourself even when it burns and stings.

It’s exactly as Cavemonster said, the truth is the truth no matter what. It doesn’t matter what Randi or Einstein did; the facts is the facts. The most important thing to remember about Randi is what he’s accomplished and helped create.
Just let us know when you have evidence of wrongdoing. Does a tape exist? Maybe. Is there evidence of wrongdoing? Not that I've seen. When a very nasty allegation is made against someone, it should be supported with evidence, otherwise it's slander. Again, you can't prove a negative. It's not up to us show that Randi is innocent, it's up to the accusers to provide evidence. Put up or shut up.
jimtron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 10:43 AM   #55
Azrael 5
Philosopher
 
Azrael 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,874
OP still not managed to post a link to his discussion elsewhere?
__________________
"I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown
Azrael 5 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 11:23 AM   #56
Paulhoff
You can't expect perfection.
 
Paulhoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12,504
Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
So, Randi admits to making a sex tape ‘allegedly’ to help the cops.
Proof please.

Paul



Oh, this is my last post on this BS thread.
__________________
For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST"
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing

Last edited by Paulhoff; 30th June 2010 at 11:54 AM.
Paulhoff is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 02:14 PM   #57
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
 
rjh01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 24,219
Originally Posted by Chris H View Post
Ha! Is there anywhere that guy hasn't been banned from?

Incidentally, Dave Koenig/"The Professor" dragged this dead horse from it's coffin 12 months ago, and continues to flog it to this day. He even went as far to post a link to a download site where the "sex tapes" were hosted. He went out of is way to thank "whoever posted these so we can all make up our own minds without outside interference". However I think it's likely that Koenig had something to do with the upload, considering his connections to Jim Callahan, and Jim's connection to Uri Geller. The files have since been removed from Uploadpedia, but if you want to read the 40 pages of dribble, along with dozens of pages of other Randi/JREF libel, knock yourself out.

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/for...wforum.php?f=7
The Professor has not posted there since April 2010. No idea why he left or where he has been since.
rjh01 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 02:46 PM   #58
Dunstan
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,289
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I'm pretty sure Randi wrote in some detail about this on randi.org so have a search on there. I found this SWIFT article that mentions it towards the bottom: http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/...peaks-out.html
Somewhat off-topic, but I don't think Randi comes across very well in that article. I know he was obviously angry at the things being said about him, but bragging about punching people out -- and hinting that he might do so to others -- is not very admirable. If Uri Geller started threatening to punch out anyone who called him a phony, Randi would be the first to chastise him for resorting to intimidation.

And offering the million dollar prize for proof that Randi said certain things? There's nothing paranormal about a claim that "James Randi said such-and-such," and the prize is supposed to belong to the JREF and not be Randi's personal property to offer up (even rhetorically) every time he's in a snit about something. In fact, by April 2009 when that Swift article was written, Randi was no longer even the JREF President -- so why is he acting like it's his to hand over if he loses an argument?
Dunstan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 04:04 PM   #59
valis
Muse
 
valis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 647
Going from memory......

The thing about the tape was it was claimed as proof that Randi was a pedophile, the problem being the people he was talking to were, I believe 17 years old in the case of the youngest. Even if that is technically below the legal age of consent for the jurisdiction it is a million miles from pedophilia.

The purported court transcripts have been posted online at times, you could try searching for those.

I read them years ago and a couple of purely personal opinion observations......

I seem to recall that the judge was none too happy with Randi at times and made it clear he did not believe Randi was entirely truthful.

After reading what Randi said his coming out was the least surprising announcement in history. The words on those tapes are obviously not those of a straight man. I spent a great deal of my teenage youth hitch hiking the US and met plenty of Randis. Not, btw that there is anything wrong about a gay man hitting on teenage, of age guys. There are plenty of adult straight men that chase 18 year old girls. I think it says something about them but it's legal and you can do it if you want.

Randi makes claims about his anatomy that are indeed impressive when viewed in relation to his height.

In short the whole thing is damming if gay men make you feel icky or if you are a big Randi fan and can't handle gods with feet of clay. Otherwise a whole bunch of nothing.

Again this is based on my memory of the court transcript that was posted online, if in error please feel free to point me to the true transcript and I will stand corrected.
__________________
Everybody knows freedom, it's living inside your head.
Everybody knows Jesus, you'll meet him when you are dead.

A song, by those guys...

Last edited by valis; 30th June 2010 at 05:09 PM.
valis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 04:32 PM   #60
bluesjnr
Professional Nemesis for Hire
 
bluesjnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 5,795
James Randi "sex" tapes.

Where JREF sceptics lose their reasoning.

The clamour to excuse the dirty old bugger is almost homophobic. FFS wake up.
bluesjnr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 04:41 PM   #61
paximperium
Penultimate Amazing
 
paximperium's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,696
Does ANYONE have any actual facts to post or are we all just winging it for the fun of it?
__________________
"The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett
paximperium is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 06:07 PM   #62
Fnord
Metasyntactic Variable
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,623
Originally Posted by Azrael 5 View Post
OP still not managed to post a link to his discussion elsewhere?
Isn't that a sign that a claim is bogus in some way?
__________________
Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory;
Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things;
and Knowledge is the reasoned belief in provable things.
Belief itself proves nothing.
Fnord is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 07:16 PM   #63
jimtron
Illuminator
 
jimtron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 3,104
Facts and evidence are helpful; speculation and hearsay not so much.

Quote:
Now you know damn well that if the shoe were on the other foot you would be sneering and mocking and demanding proof, evidence, links, charts, graphs, etc. Right now all we have is anecdotal evidence via his uncorroborated statement. And you know how debunkers love to tear into someone else’s anecdotal evidence. Randi should be put
under the same scrutiny and held to the same standards that he demands of others. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, what’s bad for the gander is bad for the goose.
Yes, there should be no double standard. When folks make claims, Randi often asks for evidence (and offers a million bucks if the evidence is properly presented). The onus is not on Randi or anyone here to prove a negative. The onus is on anyone who claims Randi is guilty of some kind of wrongdoing. So if someone can specifically state what he did that was wrong, and provide evidence, then do it. Otherwise let's stop the innuendos.
jimtron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2010, 07:37 PM   #64
SkepticScott
TAM Volunteer Guy
 
SkepticScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,923
Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
FWIW, and in addition to Darat's link, there's this, which purports to be James Randi's comments on the matter in 1999.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...37993287?pli=1
That reads a lot like a letter I received from Randi at about that time. I've been trying to find it to compare them.
__________________
-- Scott
SkepticScott is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 02:19 AM   #65
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 60,054
Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
So, Randi admits to making a sex tape ‘allegedly’ to help the cops.
Stop right there. Randi admits to no such thing. Randi admits to having recorded a phone call (for whatever reason). Possibly more than one - I didn't read it that closely.

To get from there to "sex tape" involves a cognitive leap of truly heroic proportions.
__________________
Wake up, you cardboard.
- Pixie of Key
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 02:28 AM   #66
kerikiwi
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,175
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post

To get from there to "sex tape" involves a cognitive leap of truly heroic proportions.
Either that or someone has led a really, really sheltered life and needs to get out more...
kerikiwi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 03:14 AM   #67
Eddie Dane
Philosopher
 
Eddie Dane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,366
Everybody has sexual details that (while not illegal) aren't things they'd want to communicate to the world.

Christ, that's how Scientology keeps the troops in order. All those embarrassing details recorded during those "audits".

So Randi is gay and likes young guys.
Well, imagine my shock. NOT.
Eddie Dane is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 05:21 AM   #68
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 60,054
I think that if there were any sexual talk by Randi on the tape it would probably have been done in order to keep the obscene caller talking to gather more evidence for the police.
__________________
Wake up, you cardboard.
- Pixie of Key
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 09:56 AM   #69
Vortigern99
Sorcerer Supreme
 
Vortigern99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 7,905
Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Given that even some of Randi's supporters have not bothered to read Randi's 1999 statement, but prefer instead to make uninformed comments and submit questions about what has been plainly written and is a matter of public record, I'm quoting Randi's relevant comments from the above linked document.

Originally Posted by James Randi
The tape cassette which formed part of the blackmail package, rather than being the product of a "tap" on my phone, as the blackmail package claimed, was a copy of a tape that I was specifically asked to make back in 1968, by the police chief -- Zerr -- of Rumson, New Jersey, where I lived at that time. That request was because of obscene phone calls I'd been receiving at home, at all hours of the day and night. The object of my conversations on that tape had been to keep the callers on the line and thereby trace and identify the persons responsible. Zerr informed me that though a recording could probably not be admitted into evidence, it would be a powerful tool to possess. (At that time, to establish a trace, it was necessary to keep a caller on the line a minimum of four minutes.) That investigation resulted in a minor in a neighboring town being identified
and charged with the crime. At that time, the minor's lawyer was informed
by the local police that I possessed a recording of the phone calls. The
very next night, my home was broken into, and only my small reel-to-reel
tape recorder that had been connected to the telephone, was taken; no other valuables were touched.

Police subsequently found the minor in possession of the recorder and its
tape reel, and he was then also charged with the break-in.


...

The fact that all the calls on that tape are calls made to me and not by me, shows the true nature of the tape. The tape was made by me, at the instruction of the Chief of Police of Rumson, New Jersey, for the purpose of obtaining evidence on the night callers. A careful listening to the tape establishes this beyond doubt. The distributors cite references that are simply not on the tape, and they fail to mention its provenance.

...

Shortly thereafter, I was sworn in as a U.S. citizen in a hall in Newark,
New Jersey. I relate this event to show that my whole record was and is
known to the U.S. government, yet I was granted citizenship.
Had there been any truth to the horrendous canards that are presently being circulated,
that would not have happened. Furthermore, when the would-be parapsychologist Eldon Byrd sued me in Baltimore a few years ago, his lawyer brought up the famous tape recording as evidence against my character. My own lawyer, at my insistence, asked that the entire tape be played for the courtroom and jury, so that the true nature of the record would be understood, instead of being misrepresented as it usually was. It was played, and Postal Inspector Ray Mack, who followed this matter from its inception, was a witness we brought in to validate the true nature of the recording. His evidence was accepted by the jury, who then gave Eldon Byrd zero of the four penalties he was demanding of me, totaling thirteen million dollars. My detractors claim that at that trial, I was established to be "a malicious liar," and that I was found guilty. ... I was notconvicted of having made that statement; it was already part of the record. I had said that Byrd was "a convicted child molester," while I should have said that he was "an admitted child molester," ... In any case, I certainly won that case, since I was represented pro bono most efficiently, and paid Byrd not a nickel.
I've snipped out the stuff about Xanthos, which is related to the case but ancillary to the main points of this thread. The entire tape in question was played in a separate but related trial to establish to the satisfaction of a jury that Randi has indeed been working for the Rumson police when he made the tape, a fact supported by a US government investigator Ray Mack.

This is all a matter of public record and can be investigated by interested parties seeking to corroborate or refute Randi's claims.
__________________
"I'm 'willing to admit' any fact that can be shown to be evidential and certain." -- Vortigern99

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix
Vortigern99 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 10:32 AM   #70
Vortigern99
Sorcerer Supreme
 
Vortigern99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 7,905
Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
As it stands right now Randi acknowledges making the tape, so apparently the tape is/was out there. His stated reason for doing so is anecdotal and hearsay on his part.
No, it was played in its entirety for a judge and jury on a separate charge of which Randi was unanimously cleared. Far from being anecdotal, the reason the tape was made is a matter of public record.

Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
So, Randi admits to making a sex tape ‘allegedly’ to help the cops. Until the cops step forward and back him up with documentation, it’s no different from a person that says he was alone in his apartment on the night of the crime but can’t produce anyone to corroborate his statement. They just have his word for it.
See above. A US jury heard the tape and the testimony of Postal Inspector Ray Mack, and decided the tape was exactly as Randi has described. It has been proven in a court of law, and is supported by a federal investigator; "allegedly" is not an adverb that accurately describes this case.

Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
In our legal system the accused is ‘innocent until proven guilty’ it is up to the accuser to prove their guilt, but when you have conclusive proof of something the accused did, especially by his own admission, the preponderance of the evidence shifts to the accuser’s side in support of their charge and the burden of proof shifts to the accused ‘to explain’.
He has explained it to the satisfaction of a judge, jury and a federal investigator. If you have or know of some material that disputes this documented fact or proves it false, please submit it.

Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
Now you know damn well that if the shoe were on the other foot you would be sneering and mocking and demanding proof, evidence, links, charts, graphs, etc.
Your insight into human nature is so remarkably prescient that you can actually certify the behaviors and responses to a certain stimulus of a person you've never met and have only corresponded with via the Internet. Color me impressed!

Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
Right now all we have is anecdotal evidence via his uncorroborated statement.
Right now you've willfully ignored the actual facts of this matter, which are that a judge, jury and federal investigator have unanimously agreed that the tape is precisely what Randi claims it is.

Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
And you know how debunkers love to tear into someone else’s anecdotal evidence. Randi should be put
under the same scrutiny and held to the same standards that he demands of others. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, what’s bad for the gander is bad for the goose.
Debunkers, ganders and geese aside, Randi has been put under the very scrutiny you demand, specifically in a US court of law, where his statement has been corroborated and certified by a judge, jury and federal investigator.

Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
If you’re going to play the skeptic game you have to be willing to apply it to yourself even when it burns and stings.
Quoted for Truth. Please follow your own advice in this regard. Does it "burn and sting" yet? Have the beneficial remedies for large water fowl of the male sex been certified as equally beneficial for the females?

Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
It’s exactly as Cavemonster said, the truth is the truth no matter what. It doesn’t matter what Randi or Einstein did; the facts is the facts. The most important thing to remember about Randi is what he’s accomplished and helped create.
Great, now you can actually apply the principles he prescribes, investigate the documents under review, see for yourself that Randi's assertions have been proven valid in a court of law, and shut up already.
__________________
"I'm 'willing to admit' any fact that can be shown to be evidential and certain." -- Vortigern99

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix
Vortigern99 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 10:55 AM   #71
TheDoLittle
Disco King Discombobulator
 
TheDoLittle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,842
Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
The Professor has not posted there since April 2010. No idea why he left or where he has been since.
He was banned. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=146020
__________________
David O. Little
-=The DoLittle 8-)=-
America believes in education: the average professor earns more money in a year than a professional athlete earns in a whole week. - Evan Esar / No one can earn a million dollars honestly. - William Jennings Bryan (1860 - 1925) / If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you. - Don Marquis
TheDoLittle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 11:10 AM   #72
Azrael 5
Philosopher
 
Azrael 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,874
Originally Posted by TheDoLittle View Post
The quote to which you replied refers to a different forum not this one.
__________________
"I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown
Azrael 5 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 11:34 AM   #73
TheDoLittle
Disco King Discombobulator
 
TheDoLittle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,842
Originally Posted by Azrael 5 View Post
The quote to which you replied refers to a different forum not this one.
I sit corrected. I think I have a case of dumb this morning.
__________________
David O. Little
-=The DoLittle 8-)=-
America believes in education: the average professor earns more money in a year than a professional athlete earns in a whole week. - Evan Esar / No one can earn a million dollars honestly. - William Jennings Bryan (1860 - 1925) / If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you. - Don Marquis
TheDoLittle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 07:01 PM   #74
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,876
Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
No, it was played in its entirety for a judge and jury on a separate charge of which Randi was unanimously cleared.
Nitpick: Randi wasn't exactly cleared. It was a civil trial where Randi was the defendant and the jury found for the plaintiff - because they had to as Randi admitted to the error of 'slandering' the plaintiff during the trial*. But they found Randi liable to the tune of $0 as the plaintiff had no reputation to smear.**


* Randi had called the man a convicted child molester, when in fact the plaintiff was merely convicted for having child pornography. During the trial the plaintiff admitted, among other unsavory antics, that he had sex with his then underage girl who he was the legal guardian. Such a prize!

** The added benefit with this result is that the plaintiff could not appeal the verdict. That didn't stop him from whining that everyone except him in Baltimore doesn't understand civil law.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 07:26 PM   #75
blobru
Philosopher
 
blobru's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,900
Sidebar of note (probably mentioned elsewhere on the forum, but the first I've seen of it): Randi's defence counsel for the Byrd v Randi lawsuit included very-soon-to-be US Supreme Court Justice, Elena Kagan!

Here's a library record of the defense presentation, also listed as one of the ten most significant cases she'd handled (see 16-d) in her C.V. questionnaire for Solicitor-General.
__________________
"Say to them, 'I am Nobody!'" -- Ulysses to the Cyclops

"Never mind. I can't read." -- Hokulele to the Easter Bunny

Last edited by blobru; 1st July 2010 at 07:37 PM.
blobru is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 08:13 PM   #76
plumjam
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,819
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I think that if there were any sexual talk by Randi on the tape it would probably have been done in order to keep the obscene caller talking to gather more evidence for the police.
Maybe he was multitasking.

Furiously.
plumjam is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 08:30 PM   #77
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,647
Originally Posted by plumjam View Post
Maybe he was multitasking.

Furiously.
Thank you PJ. We can always count on you to add a sense of the rational to any thread.

But don't project so much.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 08:43 PM   #78
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 36,378
Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
Given that even some of Randi's supporters have not bothered to read Randi's 1999 statement, but prefer instead to make uninformed comments and submit questions about what has been plainly written and is a matter of public record, I'm quoting Randi's relevant comments from the above linked document.



I've snipped out the stuff about Xanthos, which is related to the case but ancillary to the main points of this thread. The entire tape in question was played in a separate but related trial to establish to the satisfaction of a jury that Randi has indeed been working for the Rumson police when he made the tape, a fact supported by a US government investigator Ray Mack.

This is all a matter of public record and can be investigated by interested parties seeking to corroborate or refute Randi's claims.
Thanks for those quotes, Vortigern99.

Originally Posted by blobru View Post
Sidebar of note (probably mentioned elsewhere on the forum, but the first I've seen of it): Randi's defence counsel for the Byrd v Randi lawsuit included very-soon-to-be US Supreme Court Justice, Elena Kagan!

Here's a library record of the defense presentation, also listed as one of the ten most significant cases she'd handled (see 16-d) in her C.V. questionnaire for Solicitor-General.
Nice find, blobby.
__________________
Challenge your thoughts.
Don't believe everything you think.
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 09:26 PM   #79
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,647
Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Thanks for those quotes, Vortigern99.



Nice find, blobby.
Seconded. Let's remember to keep this all around for the next time for I'm sure as long as Woo exists there will be a next time.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2010, 09:56 PM   #80
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 36,378
Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Seconded. Let's remember to keep this all around for the next time for I'm sure as long as Woo exists there will be a next time.
Indeed. I saved the link (from which Vortigern quoted) a year or two ago, when I found it after much searching because I was in a debate similar to the OP's. Not that the Woos bothered to read it, unless that's what stopped them posting. Still, it came in handy again here, and blobby's link will, sadly, probably be useful.
__________________
Challenge your thoughts.
Don't believe everything you think.
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » Welcome to ISF » Other Skeptical Organizations » JREF

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:30 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.