Bjarne on: Dark Energy, only an illusion.

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Subduction

Initiation of subduction in the laboratory from solutal convection in a complex-rheology fluid
E. de Giuseppe & A.B. Davaille; American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2009 (abstract only)
Abstract: Subduction process operates by bending of the lithosphere at trench zone. But how the initiation occurs is still in debate. Numerical and laboratory models of subduction suggest that the significant deformation at the bending zone is the consequence of the variation (with temperature, stress and depth) of the plate’s rheological properties, from brittle to ductile. Up to now, laboratory experiments used a sandwich of several different materials to simulate the complex rheology of the subducting lithosphere, but no experience using only one single natural material managed to produce convection with subducting plates. We report here new analog models of subduction using a fluid, whose rheology varies from brittle to viscous when its water content changes. So as an analogy to cooling from above, the fluid is dried from above, its surface being kept at a constant humidity. Humidity, temperature, fluid thickness and solution concentration are systematically varied. The entire process is monitored by means of cameras. All the experiments show three main stages. First, the fluid dries at the surface and wavelets form: the fluid begins to show a visco-elastic behavior. Then, the fluid surface thickens and gives rise to instabilities that cause the episodic initiation of the subduction process. Finally, the fluid continues to dry and shows cracks localized on the surface. We can conclude that the variation of the fluid’s rheology, and especially the existence of a brittle state, depending on the experimental parameters such as temperature, humidity rate and concentration, is the key ingredient to exhibit convection with plate-like behavior.

Convection scaling and subduction on Earth and Super-Earths
Diana Valencia & Richard J. O'Connell; Earth and Planetry Science Letters 286(3-4): 492-502
Abstract: Super-Earths are the smallest class of discovered extra-solar planets. Owing to their relatively small mass, some might resemble Earth and perhaps be habitable. Because of the connection to habitability through thermal evolution, we investigate the tectonic regime of massive terrestrial planets. Two independent studies [O'Neill, C., Lenardic, A., Oct 2007. Geological consequences of super-sized earths. GRL 34, L19204, Valencia, D., O'Connell, R.J., Sasselov, D. D., Nov 2007a. Inevitability of plate tectonics on super-earths. ApJL 670, L45-L48.] have reached opposing conclusions about the likelihood of plate tectonics. Here, we offer possible reasons for the discordant findings and address three key aspects of sustaining plate tectonics: deformation on faults, negative buoyancy and energy dissipation during subduction. We show that in general, the ratio of driving force to plate resistance increases with planetary mass. This is a consequence of increasing convective stresses, thinning plates and similar plate structure. We conclude that even though the strength of dry and wet of faults increases for massive terrestrial planets, the convective stress increases even more allowing deformation to take place. Also, despite shorter timescales for plate cooling, rocky super-Earths achieve negative buoyancy at subduction zones. Finally, by investigating the effects of energy dissipation during subduction we find that massive terrestrial planets dissipate less energy during subduction and hence provide a positive feedback to sustain active-lid tectonics. In conclusion, rocky super-Earths have more favorable conditions than Earth for the subduction of plates, and hence, for sustaining plate tectonics.

There are numerous other examples, but these will do. First, both theory & laboratory experiment show that convection is certainly a key ingredient in subduction. It is in fact the key process; without convection there is no subduction.

Have you ever had a 5 kilo hammer in your hand ?, - if so you wouldn’t answer: that subduction is caused by convection, - this idea is much too weak, and too stupid.

The above statement is much too stupid to respect. I challenge Bjarne to quantitatively demonstrate that subduction is not caused by convection.

Gravity MUST be involved. No other force can be responsible.
Gravity is involved. Note the reference in the 2nd paper to "negative buoyancy" at subduction zones. That means the subducting plate is denser than the surrounding mantle, so it is pulled down by its own weight. That means gravity is involved in the standard description of subduction (negative buoyancy is responsible for the "slab pull" mechanism which, along with convective push & pull, leads to subduction).
 
Please do not let us think that you are so ignorant of mathematics and science that you just plugged a distance into an equation for gravitational time dilation :rolleyes: but then ....

We know that time is changing in a gravitational field, but not why, - and we both agree how to calculate it.

You also know that Jeppe on the Hill is drinking (too much), - but you don’t know why.

It could be because of Jeppe is depressed, - and that the amount of beer is total proportion with the amount of clouds on the sky.

But YES you are right; the clouds equation and alcohol consumption equation do not "seem" to have much with each other to do.

In the same way, time and distances also not “seems” to have much with each other to do with time.

But in the same way that you can calculate Jeppes alcohol consumption based on the amount of clouds (because these factors are exact proportional’s), - In the same way the relative “length” of 1 meter is completely proportional with the relative length of one second.
Also even though these two factors (from a limit perspective) doesn’t “seems” to have anything thing with each other to do.

So I hope you can understand:
Exactly like it is relevant to ask: Why is Jeppe drinking too much ? - try also to ask WHY time is changing in a gravitational field. – Why should it ?
WHAT have time to do with space ?
WHAT have time to do with the curvature of space ?
WHAT have spaceto do with distances ?.
TRY to answer these question ? - not bla bla bal, but do you really understand what is going on.

Answer.
I can read you already have a vague idea that time dilation has something to do with the distance deformation, but you do not understand your own unclear thought, - if you did you would had answer my question in the last post.

Let me confused you a bit more.
Do you know that according to your own reality the law of nature must be different at your feed level, compared to you head level, - because space time is different at these two altitudes.
We constantly must adjust for GR-time to get the law of nature to fit (again).
Can you really accept this? – You must.

Try to look behind that scene, - why is our reality so strange?

If you assume that 1 meter at your head level is a bit “relative shorter” compared to your feed level, then you would at least (in your imagination/right brain half) understand what is going on, and what space-time – really is about.
We have MUCH more to discover regarding better understanding of space, time and distances, - and how and why these are connected.
 
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We know that time is changing in a gravitational field, but not why, - and we both agree how to calculate it.
...snipped gibberish...
Answer.
I can read you already have a vague idea that time dilation has something to do with the distance deformation, but you do not understand your own unclear thought, - if you did you would had answer my question in the last post.
I also understand why gravitational time dilation happens.
I also understand that gravitational time dilation is not anything to do with distance.
Do not project your state of ignorance on me.

There was no real question in your last post. But yes I have had a 5 kilo hammer in my hand. So what? A 5 kilo hammer in my hand has nothing to do with subduction. Subduction is caused by convection.

Let me confused you a bit more.
...snipped yet more gibberissh...
 
I also understand why gravitational time dilation happens..

Really ?
Tell me
I am 9999,99974465% sure you can not

There was no real question in your last post. But yes I have had a 5 kilo hammer in my hand.
Really ?
Why do I not belive ?
Prove it ?
Send me a photo ?
 
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Really ?
Tell me
I am 9999,99974465% sure you can not
You are 9999,99974465% wrong: general relativity
So to answer your inane questions:
  • general relativity shows WHY time is changing in a gravitational field.
  • WHAT have time to do with space is: spacetime.
  • WHAT have time to do with the curvature of space is: gravitational time dilation.
  • WHAT have spaceto do with distances is: space is how disances are measured. No space = no distances. And of course, curvature of space affects how distances are measured.
But I expect that you will display your ignorance of the nature of science yet again (maybe I should add that to the list?). You think it is like a religion with an ultimate "truth".
Science is well defined by Wikipedia
Science (from Latin: scientia, meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise of gathering knowledge about the world and organizing and condensing that knowledge into testable laws and theories.[1] As knowledge has increased, some methods have proved more reliable than others, and today the scientific method is the standard for science. It includes the use of careful observation, experimentation, measurement, mathematics, and replication — to be considered a science, a body of knowledge must stand up to repeated testing by independent observers. The use of the scientific method to make new discoveries is called scientific research, and the people who carry out this research are called scientists.[2][3] This article focuses on science in the more restricted sense, what is sometimes called experimental science. Applied science, or engineering, is the practical application of scientific knowledge

As you can see your unsupported assertions with pretty pictures are non-science.

Science always has the correct

Really ?
Why do I not belive ?
Prove it ?
Send me a photo ?
Really.
Why should I worry about the opinion of someone willing to display their ignorance of science to the whole world in a forum for future generations to view and deplore?


and as for your web site​
:dl:​
I included the link for any lurker wanting to see a typical crank web site.​
 
The problem to that this is that it is based on the idea that convection (inner heat flow) is the cause.
Such idea screams to heaven for help.

Ah, the argument from incredulity; only slightly less common than the argument from ignorance. And they both live in the same house.
 
So to answer your inane questions:
general relativity shows WHY time is changing in a gravitational field.
WHAT have time to do with space is: spacetime.
WHAT have time to do with the curvature of space is: gravitational time dilation.
What you are doing is using almost empty words and expression, and hence not answering the question.
What have space to do with distances is: space is how disances are measured. No space = no distances. And of course, curvature of space affects how distances are measured.
Ohh yehh Now you begin to be “philosophical” – big surprise.
I did not thought that was possible.
I mean this is only allowed for the right brain half.

So you do understand that; space here where we are, not is the same “structure” as for example space by Mercury or space inside the earth.

The "structure" of space is even different at you feed level compared to you head level.

And the only poor word / expression for that, your have is “curvature”.

Off course I would like to ask you, what does that; curvature, really mean.
But I am afraid the answer is just a different superficial expression.
For example that at your feed you have different space-time than at your head.

To help you out of this empty “dead end”, - you only need first to understand that space in fact is flexible.
This is not something I have invented but you allready know this is true.
Space too can stretch exactly like time can.

Did got the cow logic point; - if there is no space there is no cow, and no meter stick, and no time as well.

And my friend sometimes there is no space (before a big bang) , so sometimes the universe is smaller than a cow.

So the stretch factor of space, also affects the cow, the meter stick, -distances, as well as time.

Just continue to be “philosophical”…
One day you’ll understand the simple fact that the extension of space ALWAYS is proportional with the extension of time.

THIS is a true and complete understanding of how to understand space-time. – doesn’t matter if the cause is the result of the expanding space, or a result of gravity, - pulling the flexible stucture of space .

In other words when the Universe expands to the double size, time will tick double so slow. – This process happens - right now.

And the evidence my friend; is the cosmological redshirt.
All what cosmological redshit proves is that time in the past was ticking faster.

Distances have always been “the same” Since everything relative to everything else is always the same, also even everything expands (also the cow too) .
It is all soooooooooo simple.
The math is soooooooooo simple.
Why make it so difficult when it is sooooooo simple.
 
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What you are doing is using almost empty words and expression, and hence not answering the question.
...snipped the usual gibberish...
I did answer the questions. If you cannot understand the answers then that is your problem to add to all of the other things that you do not understand, e.g.

P.S. Something that curves has curvature. Something that is not straight, curves.
 
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Does Bjarne know that difference between time and distance

First asked 9 July 2010
In this post you cite a commonly used equation for gravitational time dilation. This is derived from the Schwarzschild metric.

You then state "Based on the equation above, we can calculate the time as well as distances "stretch-factor": " and have a couple of tables with columns labeled "stretch-factor".

I told you that this was wrong:
No. A distance is not measured in seconds. You do not stae the equation you used to calculate the distances or how you derived the equation.

You replied
Distances is changing proportional with time
Hence the same equation can be used.

Which is ridicuous.
  1. The equaton cited is for time so it never gives distances. That is rather obvious and basic.
  2. An equation might exist in your head where distance is changing proportional with time, i.e. distance = a constant * time. But you never state what that equation is or how you derived the value of the constant.
  3. In actual fact, an equation for distances in the Schwarzschild metric can be derived and is totally different from the gravitational time dilation equation.
    If anyone is interested: The distance between two radial points in the Schwarzschild metric is given by a quite complex equation, for example see equation 8 on this preprint (PDF). N.B. these are stated in units where c = G = 1.
So I asked you
)Tell us the actual equation that you used to calculate the values in your tables.

Please do not let us think that you are so ignorant of mathematics and science that you just plugged a distance into an equation for gravitational time dilation :rolleyes:

Bjarne,
Any answer yet or is this worthy to be added to the list of flaws and ignorance in your threads?

The fatal flaws and basic ignorance in Bjarne's ideas in his threads
 
So you do understand that; space here where we are, not is the same “structure” as for example space by Mercury or space inside the earth.

The "structure" of space is even different at you feed level compared to you head level.
Very slightly different, yes. Even if spacetime were completely flat in my vicinity, distances to some other events would be different when measured from my feet versus my head.

And the only poor word / expression for that, your have is “curvature”.

Off course I would like to ask you, what does that; curvature, really mean.
But I am afraid the answer is just a different superficial expression.
For example that at your feed you have different space-time than at your head.
Your question (What is curvatureWP?) is a mathematical question. In this context, you are asking about the intrinsic curvature of Riemannian manifoldsWP, and your question was answered by mathematicians of the nineteenth century, notably Riemann and Christoffel, whose answer was developed further during the twentieth century.

Their answer to your question is, of course, highly mathematical. Although the notion of curvature in Euclidean space is taught to undergraduate math majors, curvature of Riemannian manifolds is studied primarily at the PhD level and beyond by mathematicians and physicists who have a particular interest in differential geometry and/or general relativity.

You needn't feel ashamed by your inability to understand curvature.

All what cosmological redshit proves is that time in the past was ticking faster.
Cowpie.

It is all soooooooooo simple.
The math is soooooooooo simple.
Why make it so difficult when it is sooooooo simple.
Proclaiming the simplicity of math that isn't simple at all? That is the thing of which you should feel ashamed.
 
Your question (What is curvatureWP?) is a mathematical question.
Not only
You know "something" happens to space.
You have no idea what really happens to space.

You also know “something” happens to distances.
You have no idea what really happens to distances.

You are satisfied with an almost dead impression, and that you can calculate time dilation.

"Curvature" or "space-time" is a dead end.
We can reach a larger "perspective" possible better to understand what that "something" really is.

In physic it is always good if we can simplify and unite phenomena’s and forces..

We must (at least ) ask the simple question; could that strange "curvature" or "space-time" >> mean stretched space, and the 100% exact the same property responsible for the expanding / stretching of space / universe?
Which law of nature exactly could prevent a such "unification" ?
And if these "two" phenomena’s really are comprehended, - only by one and the same property, (and not 2 properties) how would the Universe then look like?

A lot would change, “unite” and become coherent.

Try at least to follow that path, and see for you self.

It is obvious that several problems and mysteries just disappear.

For example
  • The cause of gravity solves itself, - matter must pull space,this must put a spotlight on the particle spin.
  • In the center of matter a larger space vacuums must emerge. (this also automatically explains what mass attraction really is and how it works)
  • Dark matter must just be naturally stronger central space vacuum, compered to the peripheries weaker space vacuum, (of a extended mass). .
  • Dark Energy must be an optic illusion. - There is no strange “energy” , only time dilation affects the photon “period” (energy as well as frequencies per / time-period”) since 1 seconds today relative to yesterday is not the same. This is so because when after a unification of GR and the expanding universe. - the GR equation must comprehend the expanding space and hence time dilation proportional with the stretch factor. .
  • Subduction must be powered by the background (perihelion/aphelion) stretch factor of space. Such HUGE FORCE would even make sense for Neal Adam (I hope) .
  • Etc…etc…etc..
There are no real objective barriers for this theory, but only the opposite ----- (except mossy unimaginative uninspired left brained orthodox concrete creeds)
 
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Here are some of my favorite Bjarne quotes from pages 4 - 9 of this thread:


Bjarne said:
No but that 1 = 2
1 = 1 to all time
That 1 today is different that 1 once was is irrelevant


Bjarne said:
Forget the stupid math, this is too silly.


Bjarne said:
The top of the iceberg my friend.
And by the way, - the iceberg is in fact really water and hence it is also the ocean.
And it is air H2 + O (“air”) etc.,
That what I mean: Limited Reality Check, everything is only a question of perspective. This is where the cows comes in.


Bjarne said:
Ohh no, this is not the (approved) orthodox prevailing “knowledge” my friend..
Good to know you agree to that, - hence I am not the only crackpot here.


Bjarne said:
You can read above that it is cow logic, - that matter too MUST expand. –
You can see it on Mars,
You can’t get the Earth into a Universe smaller like a atom, when a BigChrunh should begin.
There are plenty of cow-logical reasons to say > YES Matter too MUST expand, otherwise the picture of our Universes fall apart.
But well. I am not saying it is easy to accept this.
It is also not easy to accept that a Supertanker or Jupiter once must have been smaller like an atom etc...... Don’t complain to me. I am just thinking so simple and logical like a cow.


Bjarne said:
Your are right, - you must be hanged.


Bjarne said:
It is 99, 99999999% similar to grass hungry cows, since grass in fact is 99, 99999999% space (o,000000000001% is energy)
( And you know the cows is also mainly space).


Bjarne said:
My friend this reflect a law of nature you MUST understand.
Math can do no more, now it is only up yours understanding to get the final point.


Bjarne said:
Sometimes understanding is more important than math.
And sometimes "new math" is impossible, hence only cow logic ....(and measurement of central gravity) is the only way out of the darknes (and higgs fantasy madness)


Bjarne said:
Off course it can, the mass must be more compact and less G-noise, it is simple to do and the cost is 600.000 times cheaper than tracing a fantasy higgs that only exists in the brains of “some” scientist and mainly those that never had had a hammer in their hands.


Bjarne said:
You have no right to call my thought crap.
Of course these it will be proven.


Bjarne said:
This only reflect you haven’t understood gravity, -it is logarithmic
If this should be ludicrous reality is ludicrous


Bjarne said:
My IQ is 0,002 % below the average cow IQ level. – This should exactly be enough to understand simplicity.


Bjarne said:
Back to Earth, - only one piece is in fact missing and the picture is complete.
All it requires is that you can see the whole “picture”. – Try to see the wood, and don’t get lost because there are too many threes everywhere.
 
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Here are some of my favorite Bjarne quotes from pages 4 - 9 of this thread:

The shown post fragment is taken completely out of several different contexts.

Complexity,
So far you had not had one single thread relevant “matter of facts” argument, but only arrogant and condescension behaviors.

If you cannot contribute to this thread, with thread relevant matter of facts - but only continue to be scornful, and trying to derail the thread, (so like the other post of yours Modifier already once have moved), - then please leave this thread.

If you really have some worth mentioned understanding of gravity, then please reply for exsample to these basic questions:

Which pattern of Acceleration Due to Gravity (ADG) shall we expect to measure inside a building like this one?
Notice the values I am asking for is primary the values caused by the buildings own gravity, not the one due to the free air gradient.

Data
Height 100 Meter
Length 70 Meter
Width 20 Meter
Weight (estimated) 40.000.000 KG
30 floors
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1
Would the ADG caused by the building itself be:
Positive at the top for (for example + 0.100 MicroGal)
Zero, or almost zero at the Centre (14 th or 15 th and 16 th floor)
Negative at the ground floor (for example minus 0.100 MicroGal)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2
Or shall we expect ADG due to the buildings own gravity to be almost stable the whole way from the top to the bottom?
(for example + 0.100 MicroGal)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3
Or shall we expect ADG due to the buildings own gravity to decrease the whole way from the top to the bottom?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4
Or what shall we expect?
 
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The shown post fragment is taken completely out of several different contexts.

As opposed to
  1. someone who can't use the quote function to identify what messages are being quoted?
  2. someone who can't use the quote function to identify who said the quote?
  3. someone who takes the time to Photoshop a picture, but can't counter the proof the picture provided in the first place?

At least Complexity was able to correctly identify that you gave the quotes and even referenced the pages that they came from. You can't even do that.

PS: You're the answer to the three questions.
 
At least Complexity was able to correctly identify that you gave the quotes and even referenced the pages that they came from. You can't even do that.

Right
This is at least "something"...
 
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