explain why wave-particle duality is nonsense?

Bishadi

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You love to start new threads. How about you start one to explain why wave-particle duality is nonsense? Please try to avoid aggravating ad-homs and vague hints. Just explain the science, as if you were teaching grown-ups instead of showing off. Thanks.


This is a science section and your inquiry is short of humor but i will share something most do not.

Please no rants unless you have run the experiment yourself and taken into account the parameters of defining the receiving mass (plate).

For definition: The mass of the receiving plate that renders the pattern of the double-slit experiment.

As a real solid method of getting ahead on the concept; Graphene is a rare elemental structure and will offer a fine method of directly proving much of what is being said on this thread.


core concept to maintain: the energy affects the mass


So when sending your em (electromagnetic energy; photons (per se)) thru the double slit to the receiving plate, both the double slit and receiving plate will render different effects to various wavelengths that are exposed to them.

Colors prove that point in itself.

Now the particle aspect is directly going to be affected by maintaining a clean experiment in which the receiving plate is important. To send a single photon (per se) that reflects the 'same' patter as the bath of the same light is what many find as the particle wave duality.

But this will be affected by the mass (its thresholds). The first evidence will be that when the double slit is exposed and the background, to change each will affect the next exposure, one at a time.

That mass is very important in the double slit experiment.

The experiment is not showing that particles called 'photons' exist but that each wave (single unit of the state of energy (the per se photon)) is affecting the mass exposed and that the points that show themselves as a particle are the threshold points for that specimen from that exposure in that environment. That 'point' (per se particle) of the mass on the specimen plate is already resonating with energy upon it and the combining elements are resonating like the surface of a pond and the point we see is the threshold like the white cap on a pond. That single threshold of energy to 'react' (release its inner energy; an exothermic reaction for that point over the total exposed).

The original DSE is not maintaining the interractions of the energy (light) and its wavelength (in meters) and the effects it has on the exposed mass (the double slit nor the plate receiving the exposure). As simple as it sounds any of science know that the mass is not held as relevant to the experiment (an error).

for some reason, the photo electric effect nor even the concept of how colors work is held as relevant to the experiments of the double slit or the black body (catastrophe) radiation.

The concept to record the reaction thresholds, of the mass will also affect the black body experiment. (ie.... graphene will be perfect and to measure the resonant affects in itself will be a important, especially when doping the material as that will be how to tune in wavelength frequencies (mark my words))
 
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You love to start new threads. How about you start one to explain why wave-particle duality is nonsense? Please try to avoid aggravating ad-homs and vague hints. Just explain the science, as if you were teaching grown-ups instead of showing off. Thanks.


This is a science section and your inquiry is short of humor but i will share something most do not.

Please no rants unless you have run the experiment yourself and taken into account the parameters of defining the receiving mass (plate).

For definition: The mass of the receiving plate that renders the pattern of the double-slit experiment.

As a real solid method of getting ahead on the concept; Graphene is a rare elemental structure and will offer a fine method of directly proving much of what is being said on this thread.


core concept to maintain: the energy affects the mass


So when sending your em (electromagnetic energy; photons (per se)) thru the double slit to the receiving plate, both the double slit and receiving plate will render different effects to various wavelengths that are exposed to them.

Colors prove that point in itself.

Now the particle aspect is directly going to be affected by maintaining a clean experiment in which the receiving plate is important. To send a single photon (per se) that reflects the 'same' patter as the bath of the same light is what many find as the particle wave duality.

But this will be affected by the mass (its thresholds). The first evidence will be that when the double slit is exposed and the background, to change each will affect the next exposure, one at a time.

That mass is very important in the double slit experiment.

The experiment is not showing that particles called 'photons' exist but that each wave (single unit of the state of energy (the per se photon)) is affecting the mass exposed and that the points that show themselves as a particle are the threshold points for that specimen from that exposure in that environment. That 'point' (per se particle) of the mass on the specimen plate is already resonating with energy upon it and the combining elements are resonating like the surface of a pond and the point we see is the threshold like the white cap on a pond. That single threshold of energy to 'react' (release its inner energy; an exothermic reaction for that point over the total exposed).

The original DSE is not maintaining the interractions of the energy (light) and its wavelength (in meters) and the effects it has on the exposed mass (the double slit nor the plate receiving the exposure). As simple as it sounds any of science know that the mass is not held as relevant to the experiment (an error).

for some reason, the photo electric effect nor even the concept of how colors work is held as relevant to the experiments of the double slit or the black body (catastrophe) radiation.

The concept to record the reaction thresholds, of the mass will also affect the black body experiment. (ie.... graphene will be perfect and to measure the resonant affects in itself will be a important, especially when doping the material as that will be how to tune in wavelength frequencies (mark my words))


What? The words are English but that´s about all.Is there someone who can help you couch your posts in intelligible English?
 
Hey, anyone want to use this thread to explain optics theory to me? Let's start with the basic premise, is light both a particle and a wave or is it a wave of particles or what? For some reason I've always envisioned it as a particle moving in a wave pattern but I know that's probably wrong.
 
Hey, anyone want to use this thread to explain optics theory to me? Let's start with the basic premise, is light both a particle and a wave or is it a wave of particles or what? For some reason I've always envisioned it as a particle moving in a wave pattern but I know that's probably wrong.

Good idea,I could learn something too.Just ignore Bishadi´s word salads.
 
Hey, anyone want to use this thread to explain optics theory to me? Let's start with the basic premise, is light both a particle and a wave or is it a wave of particles or what?

Photons are quantized waves. The "particle" nature comes from the fact that they carry discrete units of energy and momentum, and classically this is associated with particles, but they're definitely waves. Just not classical waves.

For some reason I've always envisioned it as a particle moving in a wave pattern but I know that's probably wrong.

Yup, that's wrong.

Even for massive particles, the particle doesn't "move" in a wave (it's not wiggling sideways as it travels), rather the particle has this non-classical property of "phase", and the phase oscillates in phase space, not in real space.
 
No it isn't. Its both. The fact is that light can either display properties of particles or waves. The qunitissential is the double slit experiment.

Um, I'm not very good at getting videos to work on my machine. Could you maybe explain the double slit to me please?
 
Um, I'm not very good at getting videos to work on my machine. Could you maybe explain the double slit to me please?

Wiki has a decent explanation of it.

In short, it's an experiment that shows that light has properties of both a wave and a stream of particles. If you set up the apparatus to detect which slit a particle goes through, it behaves like a stream of particles (no interference patterns), but if you don't, you get wave-like behavior (interference patterns).
 
Photons are quantized waves. The "particle" nature comes from the fact that they carry discrete units of energy and momentum, and classically this is associated with particles, but they're definitely waves. Just not classical waves.

Question: What is a Photon?
Answer: Under the photon theory of light, a photon is a discrete bundle (or quantum) of electromagnetic (or light) energy. Photons are always in motion and, in a vacuum, have a constant speed of light to all observers, at the vacuum speed of light (more commonly just called the speed of light) of c = 2.998 x 108 m/s.



that is about.com


but the method to show the error is to notice 2 questions;

What is the photon of a gamma ray and radio wave (the single unit)?

Why are both measured in size by meters?

Notice the energy is proportional to the size!


but this thread is not about 'what is a photon' it is about the double slit experiment (DSE) and how to rehash the causality by simply observing that the receiving plate of energy is as important as the wavlengths used to expose the 'particle-wave' hypothesis.







Yup, that's wrong.

Even for massive particles, the particle doesn't "move" in a wave (it's not wiggling sideways as it travels), rather the particle has this non-classical property of "phase", and the phase oscillates in phase space, not in real space.

that is incorrect and incorrect. Yes... energy causes the mass to resonate (oscillations) as well, the 'field' is affecting its surrounding.

classical or not, the effects are caused by the energy state upon the mass; the em.

when someone claims otherwise, then you can find they have no clue on how electricity is used in most all electronics. ie... radio stations are directly affecting the am/fm of the wave (em) and transmitting it, via mass.


This thread is on the DSE and to comprehend the 'wave' just tap a flat surface of a pond and see how the wave radiates over time/space/mass. Within the DSE, the energy is the em and the mass imposed is the h20 of the pond. And all mass inbtween the emitter and the eyes are affecting the patterns and what is rendered to identify.


That level of causality to this experiment is what few hold or understand.



wiki on the basis:



In quantum mechanics the double-slit experiment demonstrates the inseparability of the wave and particle natures of light and other quantum particles (wave–particle duality). The setup used by Young, and by Newton, differs from the modern version; they passed a beam of light over a thin object such as a slip of card (in Young's case) or a hair (in Newton's case).[1][2] More recently a point light source illuminates a thin plate with two parallel slits, and the light passing through the slits strikes a screen behind them. The beams emerging from the two slits are coherent, in phase, as they are derived from the same source. The wave nature of light causes the coherent light waves passing through the two slits to interfere, creating a pattern of bright and dark bands on the screen. (However, at the screen the light is always found to be absorbed as though it were composed of discrete particles, photons.)[3][4]

Classical particles do not interfere with each other (they can collide, but that is quite different). If classical particles are fired in a straight line through one of a pair of slits they will all strike the screen in a pattern the same size and shape as the slit; if fired through the other slit the result will be similar. If both slits are opened simultaneously, the resulting pattern will simply be the sum of the two single-slit patterns. With light, although in many circumstances it behaves as particles (photons), it has been known for over two centuries that the pattern with two slits is not the sum of the separate patterns—this established the wave nature of light. The actual distribution of brightness can be explained by the alternately additive and subtractive interference of waves




and since the basics and the evidence do any see that with new evidence and capability to remaining causal, could the pattern change?
 
Wiki has a decent explanation of it.

In short, it's an experiment that shows that light has properties of both a wave and a stream of particles. If you set up the apparatus to detect which slit a particle goes through, it behaves like a stream of particles (no interference patterns),
wrong

but if you don't, you get wave-like behavior (interference patterns).

apparently you missed the reading.

the pattern shows itself, no matter the wave (bath of the light) or the single unit (per se ONE photon at a time)..... that is what the particle-wave duality is based on. They cannot predict which side (which slit) it will go thru, not even from full structures, like fullerene. That is what screws em up

but i suggest, observe the mass receiving the exposure. (thats it)

ie... think about what is occuring at the molecular level for each exchange and it is easy.
 
So, is it that it is a big wave made of particles and then when you set up the slit it sort of "cuts out" one particle from the wave? Like an ocean wave hitting rock and a single water drop breaking loose. That probably dosen't entirely make sense but it's a really weird concept, something being both a particle and a wave at the same time.
 
Or is it more like a descrete packet of waves that behaves like a particel because it's a descrete packet?
 
wrong



apparently you missed the reading.

No, it is you that is wrong. You did not even understand what they said.

The point they made was that if you placed a detector to determine what side the single photon traveled, the interference pattern disappears. This is an observational fact. It's silly for you to try and call it wrong.
 
What is the nature of a "descrete packet"? I haven't heard that term before. It makes me think of tiny flat envelopes full of particles all pressed together and moving in wave patterns.

Ok, my visualization centers are approaching capacity. Is this one of those things that aren't quite fully understood yet but have rough working models that can be used for prediction?
 
That's just my way of thinking about it. I'm thinking more like LEGOs--you can have a brick, you can have a house, and you can have different types of bricks, but you can't have half a brick.

Of course, I have no training what so ever in this sort of physics (I've read some books by physicists on the subject, but not intensively and they were popular-press books), so I may be 100% wrong. Thus the question. :)
 
Ok, my visualization centers are approaching capacity.
Nothing to worry about -- human visualization and intuition is not very good when dealing with how systems work at the quantum level.

Is this one of those things that aren't quite fully understood yet but have rough working models that can be used for prediction?
No, the thing is very well understood and are models are anything but rough -- they are just not easily visualizable or intuitive.
 

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