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Tags Amanda Knox , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 20th December 2010, 10:54 AM   #22001
odeed
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
I would imagine that Guede might have more luck taking his case to the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg rather than the ECHR in Strasbourg. It's the ECJ which is the "overlord" court for European Union member states. I hope Guede's attorneys know what they're talking about!
A defendant cannot appeal to the ECJ.
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Old 20th December 2010, 10:57 AM   #22002
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Originally Posted by nopoirot View Post
Greetings all. I wonder if sufficient attention has been devoted to Raffaele's betrayal of Amanda. As I follow the timelines, Raffaele and Amanda attend classes on the morning of Nov. 5. That evening, they dine together, and present themselves at the police station somewhere around 10:15. While Raffaele is being questioned, Amanda whiles away the time with exercises. Around 10:30 or so (I don't know that the exact time is here important), Raffaele begins to change his testimony. There is much dispute about the nature of this change. Raffaele's diary is hardly a model of lucidity, but in his entry of Nov. 12 he says ". . . in the first statement I made I said that Amanda had stayed with me all night long . . . (trans. Clander.) This leaves little room for doubt that the "big cabbage" came in the second version. One of the cabbage leafs is the claim that Amanda had induced him to "talk crap," another that Amanda had parted from him that evening to go to Le Chic. Some strained attempts have been made to propose that the "big cabbage" did not catch Amanda from the blind side, but I think them unpersuasive. What prompted Raffaele to throw it? On what theory would he substitute a lie for the truth, or one lie for another? What persuasive evidence militates against the commonsensical inference that, having had a couple of days to study on the dangers of perjury, he decided to "come clean"? It did not take him long to realize, of course, that he had dropped himself into a pot of boiling water, but that is beside the point. Amanda, poleaxed with news of Raffaele's betrayal, was thrown into a state of panic and shock. Like Thurber's squirrel, she darted this way, that, "lost her head" and ran right into the tire. Another cuff on the head might well have induced her to confess to the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. It has been plausibly argued, here and elsewhere, that her first "confession" came as early as 1:45. She made herself "roadkill" with that statement, and from it all else flowed. It may not be admissible, in a court of law, but Amanda could hardly have known that. It did not take her long to realize that, in addition to making a most imprudent accusation against Lumumba, she had implicated herself in one of the most lurid crimes of recent memory. I don't know that we need a theory of coercion to account for her subsequent statements. They are but attempts to mitigate the admission that she had been untruthful twice over. In the vernacular, she was "crawfishing." And now she gives to understand that her troubled psyche is throwing up images that may or may not be grounded in reality--you know, like in one of those Jason Bourne movies. Were I the judge, I would be disinclined to spring the door of her cage unless she comes forward with a reasonably plausible account of the facts.
What if the police told him in his interrogation that they had solid evidence showing that Knox was involved in the murder? What if they then told him that even though he had previously said Knox was with him all night, how could he be certain that she hadn't left his apartment at some point in the night if he'd drifted off to sleep? What if at some point he also got so confused that he began to mix up the events of the night of 1st November with those of the night of 31st October - a night when Knox had indeed gone out without him to a Halloween party?
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Old 20th December 2010, 10:59 AM   #22003
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To Katody: If Rudy's diary was meant to be read by the investigators, does this hold true, insofar as Raffaele's diaries?
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Old 20th December 2010, 11:01 AM   #22004
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Originally Posted by odeed View Post
A defendant cannot appeal to the ECJ.
Ah yes, thanks - you're right and I was wrong. It seems that Guede's only possible source of final appeal might be to the ECHR in Strasbourg under Article 6: the right to a fair trial.
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Old 20th December 2010, 11:18 AM   #22005
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
By the way, what evidence do you think there is of a clean-up?
3/4 weeks ago you posted if there was a cleanup that "one would expect to see wiping/smearing patterns" and "one would also expect luminol to expose dilute blood in the grouting between the tiles", which I replied with links to pictures of what you expected:
Originally Posted by odeed View Post
The first photo http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/fotogal...ry3634.shtml?1 shows luminol reaction in the grouting between the tiles.

The second photo http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/fotogal...ry3634.shtml?2 shows a footprint on the right (possible second print just to the left of it), with what looks like a pattern of smearing or wiping on the left of the picture.
So do you still think that there was no cleanup?
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Old 20th December 2010, 11:19 AM   #22006
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Originally Posted by capealadin View Post
To Katody: If Rudy's diary was meant to be read by the investigators, does this hold true, insofar as Raffaele's diaries?
Judging by it's contents - definitely no!
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Old 20th December 2010, 11:20 AM   #22007
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Originally Posted by capealadin View Post
I have no idea if Rudy saw the bathroom pics, which looked very gruesome, after it had been sprayed. From a logical point of view, though, he mentions all the blood in the bedroom, and then all the blood in the bathroom and CORRIDOR. I don't see how mentioning the bloody bathroom and corridor directs suspicion away from him. He has already mentioned all the blood in the bedroom, where he admits to being in. Also, the bathroom, to get the towels. As to the drug dealer, whatever, there may have been an ulterior motive in mentioning it.
Frank S. has a photo of the pink bathroom on his blog dated January 16, 2008. Was this photo distributed to the media before this date?

When was the bathroom sprayed with the chemical which turned it pink?

Also, what were the dates Rudy composed his diary?
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Old 20th December 2010, 11:25 AM   #22008
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Originally Posted by odeed View Post
3/4 weeks ago you posted if there was a cleanup that "one would expect to see wiping/smearing patterns" and "one would also expect luminol to expose dilute blood in the grouting between the tiles", which I replied with links to pictures of what you expected:


So do you still think that there was no cleanup?
Yes, I still think there was no clean-up. The amount of luminescence in the grout areas of the first picture is way below what one might expect if there were still blood there - as witnessed by the much brighter footprint. And in the second image I can see no evidence whatsoever of smearing - that looks more like confirmation bias to me.

In both photos, incidentally, the exposures must have been extremely long, since there are tiny dots of low luminescence which cannot be attributable either to the crime or to a clean-up. It appears that the "crack" Perugia forensics teams may have been "turning up the dials" on the Luminol testing as well....

ETA: Oh, in the second photo, are you supposing that the strange shadowy artifacts at the top left and lower left side of the photo are Luminol-revealed smears? "Smears" that are in a different colour range (lilac) to the turquoise-blue of the true Luminol luminescence? "Smears" that are in fact almost certainly camera artifacts of some sort?

Last edited by LondonJohn; 20th December 2010 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 20th December 2010, 11:28 AM   #22009
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Yes, I still think there was no clean-up. The amount of luminescence in the grout areas of the first picture is way below what one might expect if there were still blood there - as witnessed by the much brighter footprint. And in the second image I can see no evidence whatsoever of smearing - that looks more like confirmation bias to me.

In both photo's, incidentally, the exposures must have been extremely long, since there are tiny dots of low luminescence which cannot be attributable either to the crime or to a clean-up. It appears that the "crack" Perugia forensics teams may have been "turning up the dials" on the Luminol testing as well....
Shifting the goalposts, they show exactly what you expected.
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Old 20th December 2010, 11:35 AM   #22010
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Originally Posted by odeed View Post
Shifting the goalposts, they show exactly what you expected.
No, they don't.
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Old 20th December 2010, 11:35 AM   #22011
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Originally Posted by capealadin View Post
I have no idea if Rudy saw the bathroom pics, which looked very gruesome, after it had been sprayed. From a logical point of view, though, he mentions all the blood in the bedroom, and then all the blood in the bathroom and CORRIDOR. I don't see how mentioning the bloody bathroom and corridor directs suspicion away from him. He has already mentioned all the blood in the bedroom, where he admits to being in. Also, the bathroom, to get the towels. As to the drug dealer, whatever, there may have been an ulterior motive in mentioning it.
I guess, it was a nice surprise to Rudy that 3 people were jailed almost immediately and "case closed" was announced. He was baffled by all this a bit. Yes, he knew the horror of Meredith's room. But the fake blood bathroom photo, the exaggerated news reports about amount of blood all over the house (corridor included), along with the swift arrests gave him a false hope that maybe something unforeseen happened that would allow him to lie out of this somehow.
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Old 20th December 2010, 11:36 AM   #22012
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Originally Posted by Katody Matrass View Post
I think Rudy could be very well alluding to the pink horror bathroom photo. Wasn't it all over the media by that time? When he asks "how could she have taken shower" he merely repeats after the media.

It it clear that he tries to direct suspicion away from him, and his "diary" is meant to be read by the investigators. AK and RS were in jail and all over the TV and press. That makes them obvious decoy. But he knows they were not there and has no idea that ILE won't realize it's a dead end, that's why he also mentions some drug dealer, who he knows from Corso Garibaldi (I bet there really was one who really had a white car).
Not that this matters, but you could read Rudy's statement as two separate observations not necessarily connected: 1. white car; 2. drug dealer.

Quote:
Then I headed for Meredith’s house. With all the running around I did, I think it would have been around 8:30, approximately. Because we were supposed to see each other at that time, even though I didn’t have a watch I tried to arrive on time, because I usually arrive late. As I arrived in front of the house, I noticed a white car with headlights on, and a Drug-Dealer I often saw on Garibaldi Avenue, but I didn’t make much of this, and I went into the yard. I knocked on the door, but no one answered. I went downstairs to the guys’ place, but no one was there either. So then, I waited in the yard.
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Old 20th December 2010, 11:39 AM   #22013
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
What if the police told him in his interrogation that they had solid evidence showing that Knox was involved in the murder? What if they then told him that even though he had previously said Knox was with him all night, how could he be certain that she hadn't left his apartment at some point in the night if he'd drifted off to sleep? What if at some point he also got so confused that he began to mix up the events of the night of 1st November with those of the night of 31st October - a night when Knox had indeed gone out without him to a Halloween party?
I am reluctant to propose this, and so perhaps my idea will quietly go away without requiring any further action on my part, but, would anyone be interested in joining together to develop a system for classifying arguments so that the board is not just an endless cycle of repetition?
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Old 20th December 2010, 11:40 AM   #22014
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Originally Posted by Katody Matrass View Post
I guess, it was a nice surprise to Rudy that 3 people were jailed almost immediately and "case closed" was announced. He was baffled by all this a bit. Yes, he knew the horror of Meredith's room. But the fake blood bathroom photo, the exaggerated news reports about amount of blood all over the house (corridor included), along with the swift arrests gave him a false hope that maybe something unforeseen happened that would allow him to lie out of this somehow.
I had asked these questions of capealadin up thread but I will also ask you (perhaps you know the answers).

Frank S. has a photo of the pink bathroom on his blog dated January 16, 2008.

Was this photo distributed to the media before this date?

When was the bathroom sprayed with the chemical which turned it pink?

Also, what were the dates Rudy composed his diary?
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Old 20th December 2010, 11:40 AM   #22015
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This is what a clean-up looks like under luminescence chemical treatment:

http://www.bluestar-forensic.com/gb/...005_02/19.html
http://www.bluestar-forensic.com/gb/...005_02/17.html
http://www.bluestar-forensic.com/gb/...005_02/30.html
http://www.bluestar-forensic.com/gb/...005_02/09.html
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Old 20th December 2010, 11:41 AM   #22016
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
Not that this matters, but you could read Rudy's statement as two separate observations not necessarily connected: 1. white car; 2. drug dealer.
Good observation. I think Rudy made this up, so I didn't pay that much attention.
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Old 20th December 2010, 11:47 AM   #22017
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Originally Posted by christianahannah View Post
I had asked these questions of capealadin up thread but I will also ask you (perhaps you know the answers).

Frank S. has a photo of the pink bathroom on his blog dated January 16, 2008.

Was this photo distributed to the media before this date?

When was the bathroom sprayed with the chemical which turned it pink?

Also, what were the dates Rudy composed his diary?
The answer to the last question is that this particular diary was composed some time between 20th November 2007 (the date of Guede's arrest in Germany) and 26th February 2008 (the date of his extradition back to Italy).

And the article below suggests that the police only released the photo of the small bathroom on 16th January 2008:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...th-horror.html

Interesting that the Mail jumps to the conclusion that the staining is from blood......

I can't answer as for when the bathroom was sprayed, but I imagine it might have been done in December 2007, at the same time as the Luminol tests.
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Old 20th December 2010, 12:08 PM   #22018
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
The answer to the last question is that this particular diary was composed some time between 20th November 2007 (the date of Guede's arrest in Germany) and 26th February 2008 (the date of his extradition back to Italy).

And the article below suggests that the police only released the photo of the small bathroom on 16th January 2008:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...th-horror.html

Interesting that the Mail jumps to the conclusion that the staining is from blood......

I can't answer as for when the bathroom was sprayed, but I imagine it might have been done in December 2007, at the same time as the Luminol tests.
Good catch, I was about to suggest searching some tabloid archives.

This article says he was extradited in December:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7130808.stm
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Old 20th December 2010, 12:12 PM   #22019
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Unbiased witness

Originally Posted by Fulcanelli View Post
Why? Is sitting in a park illegal? What's two youngsters minding their own business got to do with the cottage? How was Curatolo to know they had anything to do with the crime? What was Curatolo supposed to have done, rushed down the police station screaming "I Saw two youths sitting on a park bench!!!"? In that case with that logic, should he also not have gone down and reported seeing...people walking though the park or driving by it...or reported the kiosk vendor for being in the park? What made Raffaele and Amanda so in need of immediately reporting to the police as opposed to any of the other people he may have seen in or driving by the park...what had they done in front of him to indicate that they had anything to do with the murder? What was there to report before they were arrested?

How would he have heard a scream from way over in the park which had buildings in between it and the cottage?
Hi Fulcanelli,
The only reason I bring up this story that I, a citizen, got involved was because I had done so previously in the past, as it appears Mr. Antonio Curatolo has done too.
Though I've been kicked by a cop before, I still step up and call the cops+get involved when I see things amiss.

Earlier this year, I heard a huge car crash, but no squealing brakes, thru the brick walls and 1/4" glass of my old surfshop 1 evening after hours. Though busy doing something, I quickly ran outside, checked the scene, heard a bunch of yelling, and so I decided to grab my video camera and film the aftermath. I then noticed a white guy with friends had crashed into the rear end of a car driven by a black family.
The white guy was staggering around abit, and so I filmed that. By the time an SMPD officer "friend" that I knew showed up, he appeared a bit more normal. I told my "friend" what I saw and filmed. The car driver did very well on his field sobriety tests. But my "friend" listened to my info and the car driver was tested for his BAC, which was, IIRC, .32%, about 4 times over the California legal limit of .08%. He was arrested and sent to jail.

I've seen car crashes were the suspect burned rubber outta there, side swipin' a few other cars on the way. They got away.
I was witness where a gal, the only 1 driving on the oncoming road, ran a red light a good 5 seconds after it changed and hit a car turning left that was clear to turn. She just didn't stop, as you would've assumed at a red light. Months later I was contacted by the old couple she had hit, she had lied and said that they had ran the red light(!), so I spoke up about what really happened.
I had a gal run a stop sign and hit my own car, she said that I didn't stop at my own stop sign. But there wasn't even 1 at that particular intersection, and I had got the name, phone and address of an un-biased witness that day, who also spoke up about what he truthfully saw that day.

My point is this, Fulcanelli:
Since Antonio Curatolo had already been a unbiased(?) witness in another murder trial a few years ealier, he should have, in my humble opinion, gotten himself up off his bench or stopped diggin' thru other people's garbage cans and went over and talked with his "friends" -(the 1's that he knew from testifying before or who had met him over the 5-10 years that he had spent sleepin' under the stars), after word spread thru out the neighborhood that a bloody murder had occurred and then told them what he saw last night. Wouldn't you?

We are talking about a murder that happened, not a simple car crash DUI fender bender!

Since I have been an unbiased witness before, I am sure that if unbiased witness Antonio Curatolo had done this,
his personal recollection of events would have been significently more clearer and definately more detailed than they were when he finally came to the police investigators attention from the efforts of, who was it, a journalist?
Don't you agree?

Happy Holidays,
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Old 20th December 2010, 12:14 PM   #22020
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Link to the full gallery http://www.bluestar-forensic.com/gb/gallery.php rather than cherry picking pictures, also from that site

Quote:
Visible blood traces are often washed off but reappear larger when reacting with BLUESTAR® FORENSIC. If rinsing dilutes blood, it also widens the trace, making it easier to discover.
And from the above quote, I would say that this picture showsattempted cleanup of footprint and this shows handprint not cleaned up.

The pictures I originally posted from the Kercher crime scene, show what you expected in earlier posts, and you resort to shifting the goalposts by introducing caveats of something I expect you have little or no knowledge of, as well as trying to ridicule the forensic investigation without any evidence.
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Old 20th December 2010, 12:18 PM   #22021
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This article shows that what he wrote was part of his testimony and in the media well before he returned to Italy.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2946813.ece

Mr Guede reportedly said that his efforts to save Miss Kercher failed, but he heard her dying words, which were either the initials "AF" or the sound "af".

La Stampa said that the latter version could be an attempt to point the finger of blame at Raffaele Sollecito, Ms Knox's Italian boyfriend.
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Old 20th December 2010, 12:23 PM   #22022
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Originally Posted by odeed View Post
Link to the full gallery http://www.bluestar-forensic.com/gb/gallery.php rather than cherry picking pictures, also from that site



And from the above quote, I would say that this picture showsattempted cleanup of footprint and this shows handprint not cleaned up.

The pictures I originally posted from the Kercher crime scene, show what you expected in earlier posts, and you resort to shifting the goalposts by introducing caveats of something I expect you have little or no knowledge of, as well as trying to ridicule the forensic investigation without any evidence.
Thanks for the links! The "very messy cleanup" gallery is interesting. We can see entire surfaces glowing very intensively. I'd say it's dissimilar to the ILE's 3 luminol findings.
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Old 20th December 2010, 12:23 PM   #22023
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Originally Posted by Katody Matrass View Post
Good catch, I was about to suggest searching some tabloid archives.

This article says he was extradited in December:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7130808.stm
Ah yes, it looks like the extradition actually happened on 6th December 2007. Curiously, the report on which I based the Feb 2008 date was this one:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Sky...20080641295844
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Old 20th December 2010, 01:06 PM   #22024
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Concerning Guede

I think if Rudy Guede was to testify finally, it would be quite positive for the defense. Yes, he is a skilled liar, but this time he would be given an impossible task - to concoct a precise and believable story placing AK and RS with him at the crime scene and explaining the known evidence.
There will be no hand waving allowed and time segments and order of events will be scrutinized. There's a good reason why no one on the prosecution side came up with any coherent narrative so far. Rudy will fail as many others before.
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Old 20th December 2010, 01:13 PM   #22025
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Hi DanO, Halides1, RoseMontague, Charlie Wilkes, Mary H, LondonJohn, Katy did, Katody Matrass and others,

I'm still curious about more than a few things in this brutal murder that we discuss that took a young womans life away from her family and friends,
so if you have a moment, please give me your opinion of what I ask below:

It appears that Rudy Guede left the girls apartment around 10:30pm the night Meredith Kercher was murdered.
If so, could the unknown person who pressed random buttons on the dial on Meredith's cell phone have been Meredith herself?
Was it she herself trying to call out, to anyone, for help?

I probably know the answer to that question already, but it does bring to mind that Alessandra Formica saw someone of color leaving the area of the scene of the crime at around 10:30pm.
IIRC, she said in her court testimony that this person apparently did not want to be seen and was not Rudy Guede.

Now this is what I find strange:
Miss Formica, an unbiased witness says that the person she saw was not Rudy Guede. Didn't this guy run into her and her guy "friend"? He must have been very close to both of them when this occurred.
Many do not seem to believe Alessandra Formica though and think that she did indeed see Rudy Guede leaving the area.
Well then, what about the cell phone calls then? Weren't they made by a different cell phone tower, suggesting that the cell phones had already left the gals apartment?

Antonio Curatolo, who, if he did even see Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox that night, did so from a much greater distance than Alessandra Formica did, but yet NO ONE seems to doubt that it was Raffaele and Amanda he saw.

An unbiased witness who saw someone close-up and then came forward on her own is mistaken,
BUT a unbiased(?) witness, who came forward at the behest of a journalist and says that he saw a guy and girl from much farther away is correct in his identification?

I wonder of this and a few different things today as the rain continues to fall here in Los Angeles.
Happy Holidays,
RWVBWL

PS-The rest of the continental USA has some big storms comin' their way!

Last edited by RWVBWL; 20th December 2010 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 20th December 2010, 01:14 PM   #22026
odeed
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
...

The first photo you've posted show a shoe print where no clean-up has been attempted. the pattern of the shoe tread is clear and sharp. This is indeed similar to the Luminol photos in the cottage. There's a reason why there's one section of that gallery titled "a very messy cleaning" - and it's cos it shows photos of a very messy cleaning. There's also a reason why the shoe print photo is not in that gallery. It's cos that shoe print wasn't a remnant of an attempted clean-up.

So, ironically, you've proven my point very eloquently.
The galleries in the link are just examples of what the product can do and probably not from real cases (there is a link to real cases), so I take the gallery headings with a pinch of salt, you posted from two pictures from "Blood projections and traces" gallery in your cherry picking, I only made a guess of what the pictures showed using the quote I provided.

You still shifted the goalposts when confronted with evidence, using the criteria you originally posted.
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Old 20th December 2010, 01:32 PM   #22027
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
....

ETA: Oh, in the second photo, are you supposing that the strange shadowy artifacts at the top left and lower left side of the photo are Luminol-revealed smears? "Smears" that are in a different colour range (lilac) to the turquoise-blue of the true Luminol luminescence? "Smears" that are in fact almost certainly camera artifacts of some sort?
I think that this picture had been discussed before, and those objects are items on the floor (one I think is a sweatshirt or jumper), it is evident that you are not familiar with evidence of the case which has been available for many months.

Last edited by odeed; 20th December 2010 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 20th December 2010, 01:41 PM   #22028
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Originally Posted by odeed View Post
I think that this picture had been discussed before, and those objects are items on the floor (one I think is a sweatshirt or jumper), it is evident that you are not familiar with evidence of the case which has been available for many months.
That is indeed evident - you're absolutely correct. I must try harder. Isn't it interesting, though, how they have a translucent quality, suggesting that the "crack" forensics team might have removed them from the field of view part-way through the exposure?

But anyway, if you're not referring to these strange lilac artifacts, which part of that photo do you assert shows evidence of smearing?
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Old 20th December 2010, 01:42 PM   #22029
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Originally Posted by odeed View Post
I think that this picture had been discussed before, and those objects are items on the floor (one I think is a sweatshirt or jumper), it is evident that you are not familiar with evidence of the case which has been available for many months.
They are feet covered in white shoe covers, aren't they? That's what they look like to me anyway, a person standing with a foot either side of the prints.
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Old 20th December 2010, 01:51 PM   #22030
Katody Matrass
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Originally Posted by katy_did View Post
They are feet covered in white shoe covers, aren't they? That's what they look like to me anyway, a person standing with a foot either side of the prints.
Bingo

BTW one of the footprints in this photo is supposed to be Raffaele's.
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Old 20th December 2010, 01:51 PM   #22031
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Originally Posted by Katody Matrass View Post
I guess, it was a nice surprise to Rudy that 3 people were jailed almost immediately and "case closed" was announced. He was baffled by all this a bit. Yes, he knew the horror of Meredith's room. But the fake blood bathroom photo, the exaggerated news reports about amount of blood all over the house (corridor included), along with the swift arrests gave him a false hope that maybe something unforeseen happened that would allow him to lie out of this somehow.

Katody: It's not about exaggerated news reports. It's about what HE SAW!!. I don't know what he thought, re arrests. Or something unforseen.
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Old 20th December 2010, 01:54 PM   #22032
LondonJohn
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Originally Posted by Katody Matrass View Post
Bingo

BTW one of the footprints in this photo is supposed to be Raffaele's.
It's immediately apparent how this can be determined with millimetre precision
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Old 20th December 2010, 01:56 PM   #22033
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Originally Posted by Katody Matrass View Post
I think if Rudy Guede was to testify finally, it would be quite positive for the defense. Yes, he is a skilled liar, but this time he would be given an impossible task - to concoct a precise and believable story placing AK and RS with him at the crime scene and explaining the known evidence.
There will be no hand waving allowed and time segments and order of events will be scrutinized. There's a good reason why no one on the prosecution side came up with any coherent narrative so far. Rudy will fail as many others before.
Talking about Rudy testifying. " To concoct a precise and believable story, explaining. " No hand waving, and time segments, etc. That would be no different then, to Amanda's retelling of the events.
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Old 20th December 2010, 02:02 PM   #22034
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Hi everyone,
Being a guy who grew up in eccentric Venice Beach, my mind wanders abit.

And right now I am specifically wondering if there is any possible way that it was Meredith Kercher herself who could have possibly dialed out, for help, by randomly pressing buttons on her own cell phone as she lay dying in a pool of her own blood?

Any answers apreciated.
Thanks, RWVBWL
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Old 20th December 2010, 02:03 PM   #22035
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Christiannahanna: I had to go out, and am replying to your questions now. Except, sorry, I don't have the answers. As far as Rudy talking about all the blood, it would make no difference, IMO, when he wrote it. His recollection is that there was a lot of blood in the bathroom and corridor. I know the bathroom looked very different after it had been sprayed, but not the corridor.
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Old 20th December 2010, 02:06 PM   #22036
LondonJohn
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There's a really good new piece up on TJMK - it's balanced and completely free of any form of confirmation bias, and well worth a read.

What's its title?

"The Limited DNA Reviews - Why They Probably Won’t Help Defense And May At A Stroke Be Game Over"

Enjoy!
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Old 20th December 2010, 02:07 PM   #22037
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Ah yes, it looks like the extradition actually happened on 6th December 2007. Curiously, the report on which I based the Feb 2008 date was this one:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Sky...20080641295844
Rudy wrote of events in his diary before he was extradited to Italy on December 6, 2007?
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Old 20th December 2010, 02:14 PM   #22038
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Originally Posted by capealadin View Post
Talking about Rudy testifying. " To concoct a precise and believable story, explaining. " No hand waving, and time segments, etc. That would be no different then, to Amanda's retelling of the events.
I disagree. When you throw away Curatolo, her story fits the evidence quite well.
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Old 20th December 2010, 02:21 PM   #22039
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Yes, this is obvious. I don't see the same characteristics of a cleanup in the Luminol prints found at Kercher's flat.
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Old 20th December 2010, 02:29 PM   #22040
LondonJohn
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Originally Posted by RWVBWL View Post
Hi everyone,
Being a guy who grew up in eccentric Venice Beach, my mind wanders abit.

And right now I am specifically wondering if there is any possible way that it was Meredith Kercher herself who could have possibly dialed out, for help, by randomly pressing buttons on her own cell phone as she lay dying in a pool of her own blood?

Any answers apreciated.
Thanks, RWVBWL
Hey Randy

I'd wondered about this too. However, it's likely that Meredith would have been incapacitated almost immediately after receiving the neck wounds - for one thing, she couldn't breathe. I think it's highly likely that the combination of shock and asphyxiation would have rendered her unconscious very quickly. And since the two aborted calls were made two minutes apart, I think it's incredibly unlikely that Meredith would have been conscious for long enough to carry out both calls.

I also think that Guede may well have assaulted Meredith as she lay bleeding (as horrible as that is), and therefore he'd have noticed her trying to dial out and snatched the phone from her. Again, the two-minute gap in the two calls has a further impact on the low likelihood of this, in my view.

Having just browsed the relevant part of Massei again, I think it's interesting that it reports that the call to Meredith's UK bank (Abbey) was picked up by the mobile network, but no record of it was retained in the mobile handset's own memory. I think this can be explained by it having been a short-code call, since I imagine such a call might not show up in the "dialled numbers" list.

I strongly suspect that the explanation for these two calls is that someone (almost certainly Guede) was trying to turn off the handset. I think that in doing so he pressed and held random buttons, and as soon as he saw that his actions were resulting in a dialled call, he pressed the "end call" button (which would be an obvious button to locate). I think after the second erroneous call (to Abbey - although it would never have connected owing to the lack of international prefixes) he probably gave up and accepted that he couldn't turn off the handset.

I think Guede left the cottage at around the time of these phone calls, or shortly afterwards. I think that he was following the quiet road round outside the city wall back to his apartment, to avoid being seen. I think that he was then startled by the alert for the incoming MMS at 10.13pm, and he decided to dump the handsets, so he walked further up the road to where he thought there was a steep ravine, and threw the handsets as far as he could.

Oh lastly, I don't think that the man seen by Alessandra Formica at shortly after 10.30pm (when he bumped into her boyfriend) was Guede. The timing is wrong (the broken down car's occupants would have seen Guede exiting the cottage), and also Formica noted the man's appearance as "North African" - which is a very different facial appearance to the Sub-Saharan African features of Guede.

Hope you have a great festive season. I don't suppose you'll get as much snow in LA as we have done here in the UK though
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