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Old 16th February 2011, 06:24 PM   #1
JudeBrando
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There is no evidence for God.

Please explain and elaborate your own perspective on the matter as fully and completely as you are willing to do.
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Old 16th February 2011, 06:28 PM   #2
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The thread title pretty much sums it up, I think.
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Old 16th February 2011, 06:31 PM   #3
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Define "God".
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Old 16th February 2011, 06:49 PM   #4
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Lotsa gods. Which'n?
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Old 16th February 2011, 06:52 PM   #5
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I wanna have my name legally changed to God Almighty.
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Old 16th February 2011, 07:00 PM   #6
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Yep, no evidence whatever - just an old book, written by a bunch of sheepherders (men), compiled by a bunch of politicians (men), enforced by a slew of laws (written by guess who? yep, men) throughout history to the detriment and harm of the entire human race.

Back to gods, and evidence - specifically, the fact there isn't any that applies to any god. Unless, of course, you're special and just happen to have some lying around?
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Old 16th February 2011, 07:01 PM   #7
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There is no ability to test for god. Nothing observable about the universe is necessarily true with a god, and would be necessarily false without.
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Old 16th February 2011, 07:08 PM   #8
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There might be evidence for God. I just haven't seen any.
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Old 16th February 2011, 07:20 PM   #9
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Since you capitalized "God", I'm going to go ahead and assume that you're talking about the Abrahamic God. In which case I'd reply saying that the thread title is pretty much the answer. Why, do you have proof?
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Old 16th February 2011, 07:22 PM   #10
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I got 'im in a little jar. Letcha see 'im for a quarter....
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Old 16th February 2011, 07:25 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by JudeBrando View Post
Please explain and elaborate your own perspective on the matter as fully and completely as you are willing to do.
What part of "no evidence for God" needs elaboration?
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Old 16th February 2011, 07:32 PM   #12
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Water is wet.

Please explain and elaborate your own perspective on the matter as fully and completely as you are willing to do..
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Old 16th February 2011, 07:38 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by JudeBrando View Post
Please explain and elaborate your own perspective on the matter as fully and completely as you are willing to do.
I've seen evidence of Dog. I've seen evidence of Bog. I've seen evidence of fog, grog and blogs, but God apparently wants any evidence of His existence to be ambiguous. With ambiguous evidence making it impossible to say with certainty that God exists, God apparently decided that wanting more positive evidence for Him is an abomination and deserves eternal torture... God, what a bastard!
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Old 16th February 2011, 07:55 PM   #14
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There is no evidence for God or gods and in addition there is overwhelming evidence gods are fictional beings people invented.

You don't have to prove there are no gods any more than you have to "prove" gravity exists. The overwhelming evidence is more than sufficient to draw a conclusion.
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Old 16th February 2011, 08:59 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Brainache View Post
I've seen evidence of Dog. I've seen evidence of Bog. I've seen evidence of fog, grog and blogs, but God apparently wants any evidence of His existence to be ambiguous. With ambiguous evidence making it impossible to say with certainty that God exists, God apparently decided that wanting more positive evidence for Him is an abomination and deserves eternal torture... God, what a bastard!
What about evidence for cod? I've not only seen evidence for cod, I've seen the cods themselves!
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Old 16th February 2011, 09:06 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Elizabeth I View Post
What about evidence for cod? I've not only seen evidence for cod, I've seen the cods themselves!
Are Soles on the table for this debate?
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Old 16th February 2011, 09:37 PM   #17
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If we consider facts to be units of information that are verifiably true beyond dispute, then there are no facts that I know of for which God is a reasonable, let alone the best, explanation.
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Old 16th February 2011, 09:39 PM   #18
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Old 16th February 2011, 09:39 PM   #19
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If you define God as something outside space and time, then that's the very definition of something that doesn't exist.
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Old 16th February 2011, 09:51 PM   #20
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Not only is there no evidence for a god, the concept is clearly derivitive from one of the first mistakes in logic people make when trying to understand the natural world. Superstition.

We used to think there was a god or spirit for individual flowers, rivers, mountains, the sky. Even the house, the hearth, and food like bread and wine. It's an abstract concept that assigns identity to what is really merely a collection of basic components. We like to think of things as complete concepts, and not what makes them up. A birthday cake is really flour and eggs and sugar.

The more we explain these things and break the world down, the less and less we have left to assign this spirit of being towards. The God of the Gaps as it's been called. Now that we've explained so much of the universe away without the need of spirits or gods, all we have left really is the sum collective of the components of the natural world, the universe itself. Existence and reality itself.

We still assign this anthropic personality to the things we don't understand. This is the essence of the God concept.

There's a reason even the most simple minded and child like intelligence understands the conclusion that there is a God out there, and this wide spread idea would be a mistake in logic to conclude as evidence itself for a God just because it is so common an idea.

It's common because it's beginner's logic to making sense of the world to a being with an identity.

But why do we humans strive to find identity in the natural world around us?

We humans assign the paramount of importance in all of existence to consciousness and identity. Assigning identity to objects without identity is an error that comes from projection.

Psychological projection, and nothing more.

It is only when one strives to keep going that logic breaks down this projection and frees the mind to see beyond the anthropic bias.

Understandably, it's a comfort to have this projection of universal identity confirmed to a social animal that thrives on not being alone. We are wired to not want to be alone, and to seek out other identities. We feel good and safe and comfortable when we're not alone.

This is the reason so many make the mistake of seeing a God as an acceptable answer. It not only seems logical at first sight, it gives pleasure. And to have that idea taken from you is perceived as an actual threat to the well being of the mind, at a basic level of psychology.

It's completely understandable that those who entertain the concept of a God would have difficulty with ignoring the threat that doubt poses.

One must recognize their own need to project identity on the universe to understand there is no God, and ultimately to find intellectual freedom in divorcing the mind from the need.

Awe and wonder at realizing one's place in the scale of the universe is mistaken for being a part of this projection.

Awe and wonder can easily turn to terror when a being wired to find comfort in the company of other identities discovers how alone it is in the universe when looking at the idea through a certain point of view.

But when one considers how ironic our existence really is, a chain reaction of an infinite amount of interactions, the precious and fragile beauty of being is truly revealed to a mind able to appreciate aesthetic pleasure, and this beauty and sense of meaning dwarfs any primitive "spiritualism" that anthropic projection seeks to hide within the guise of religion.

To a mind able to derive pleasure and wonder at the universe, A God actually renders the Universe into something ultimately boring and dull, merely a creation of a being that is only doing something it's capable of doing. What's so special about the universe if a God is already omnipotent and omniscient? It's not impressive at all, really. It's just a construct. It's only impressive and worthy of worship because we can't do it or hope to understand it. To expect us to worship something based on that criteria is unfair and petty.

The only thing left to derive awe and wonder from is the ability of this God, to feed the ego of something merely doing what it can easily do anyways. To worship a being for doing what it's able to do anyways. Perhaps if this God chose to do something noble, which is what the various religions try to construe out of all this unfortunate projecting. But Christianity is confused over worshiping God because he is noble, and worshiping God because it's a law.

The true nature of reality is much more amazing and important and ironic and beautiful without a God. No longer is reality merely the expression of a God's ability, but a miracle of circumstance so complex and elegant it takes the breath away.

Logic ultimately unmasks beauty, meaning, and importance as nothing but an arbitrary frame of reference imposed on the universe by the human mind. It is not really real, in the sense that humans find pleasure in observing concrete truths.

But meaning is what you make of it.

As beings able to experience pleasure at aesthetic elegance, beauty and chance, it's a tragedy that so many dismiss the miracle of a godless universe in favor of the dull psychological projections of religion, I think.

Last edited by Halfcentaur; 16th February 2011 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 16th February 2011, 09:56 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by JudeBrando View Post
Please explain and elaborate your own perspective on the matter as fully and completely as you are willing to do.
How exactly does one elaborate on a lack of evidence?
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Old 16th February 2011, 10:10 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
How exactly does one elaborate on a lack of evidence?

Steven: "So, Nick, do you go to school?"

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Steven: "Could you be a little more specific?"

Nick: "Yeah, like, when school's on, I'm not there."

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Old 16th February 2011, 10:26 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Tinyal View Post
Yep, no evidence whatever - just an old book, written by a bunch of sheepherders (men), compiled by a bunch of politicians (men), enforced by a slew of laws (written by guess who? yep, men) throughout history to the detriment and harm of the entire human race.

Back to gods, and evidence - specifically, the fact there isn't any that applies to any god. Unless, of course, you're special and just happen to have some lying around?

I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that you have a problem with men. Nicht wahr?
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Old 16th February 2011, 10:38 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by JudeBrando View Post
There is no evidence for God.
Is god looking for evidence? of what? Tell him he's got to be more specific.
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Old 16th February 2011, 10:59 PM   #25
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I see evidence for God ever time I open my eyes. Its awe inspiring; the creation He has given us. Every bird and mountain and river and plant is evidence of His glory and power.

But of course there is the Bible. His inspired holly word, given to man, is perfect. Miracles and His son dieing on the cross are even more evidence. The prophesies and answered prayers are still more.

And of course the ultimate proof of His omnipotence will be the coming rapture, tribulations, Armageddon, and the establishment of His kingdom here on earth.

I'm sure I am forgetting some smaller pieces of evidence but I think I got all of the big ones. What more do you need?
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Old 17th February 2011, 12:06 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
I see evidence for God ever time I open my eyes. Its awe inspiring; the creation He has given us. Every bird and mountain and river and plant is evidence of His glory and power.

But of course there is the Bible. His inspired holly word, given to man, is perfect. Miracles and His son dieing on the cross are even more evidence. The prophesies and answered prayers are still more.

And of course the ultimate proof of His omnipotence will be the coming rapture, tribulations, Armageddon, and the establishment of His kingdom here on earth.

I'm sure I am forgetting some smaller pieces of evidence but I think I got all of the big ones. What more do you need?
Sounds like you're confusing evidence that the universe exists, evidence that that the bible exists, and evidence that the bible made some vague predictions with evidence for God.

Can you explain the distinction?
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Old 17th February 2011, 12:33 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by JudeBrando View Post
Please explain and elaborate your own perspective on the matter as fully and completely as you are willing to do.
Wether God exists or not is entirely irrelevant. Unless you are one who has found God, in which case God is almost entirely irrelevant.
Of those who have found god and choose to make God an important aspect of their life God is fairly important.

As to the question of evidence for the existence of God, those who wish to find it will find it. Those who don't want to find it wont find it and neither group can ever prove to the other the validity of their findings.
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Old 17th February 2011, 12:35 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
If you define God as something outside space and time, then that's the very definition of something that doesn't exist.
How did space and time come into existence?
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Old 17th February 2011, 12:40 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
How did space and time come into existence?
<*clears throat, straightens skeptical society approved bow-tie*>

I don't know. And neither do you.

<*nods politely at audience and sits down to polite applause*>
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Old 17th February 2011, 12:49 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by punshhh View Post

As to the question of evidence for the existence of God, those who wish to find it will find it. Those who don't want to find it wont find it and neither group can ever prove to the other the validity of their findings.
Then it isn't evidence.

No, save it. Whatever witty little comeback you think you have for me, just save it.

If you can't demonstrate, show, or otherwise present your evidence, then you don't have any.

If the evidence you do present is invalid, then you still don't have any.

So if you have evidence for your god, but you can't present it, and you can't show how it's valid, you don't have any evidence.

You don't have to like it, but those actually are the rules, and special pleading won't bend them an inch.




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Old 17th February 2011, 12:56 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Brainache View Post
<*clears throat, straightens skeptical society approved bow-tie*>

I don't know. And neither do you.

<*nods politely at audience and sits down to polite applause*>
It does exist though I think, how do you account for that?
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Old 17th February 2011, 12:58 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
It does exist though I think, how do you account for that?
Not with magical beings or evolved atoms.
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Old 17th February 2011, 01:03 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
As to the question of evidence for the existence of God, those who wish to find it will find it. Those who don't want to find it wont find it and neither group can ever prove to the other the validity of their findings.

I think that's a cop-out. It's been laid out again and again what I and others will accept as evidence and believe that whichever god has evidence brought forth, exists.

Still doesn't mean that this god is worthy of worship or veneration.
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Old 17th February 2011, 01:16 AM   #34
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To quote youtube user AronRa (bolding mine):

Originally Posted by AronRa
Believe as hard as you want to. But convincing yourself however firmly still canít change the reality of things. Seeing is believing. But seeing isnít knowing. Believing isnít knowing. Subjective convictions are meaningless in science, and eyewitness testimony is the least reliable form of evidence.
.
.
.

Belief may be either rational, or assumed on faith. But in either case, it doesnít matter how convinced you are; belief does not equal knowledge. The difference is that knowledge can always be tested for accuracy where mere beliefs often can not be. No matter how positively you think you know it, if you canít show it, then you donít know it, and you shouldnít say that you do.
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Old 17th February 2011, 01:52 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
It does exist though I think, how do you account for that?
I am not an accountant. I don't need to account for it. It might satisfy my curiosity to find out, but it is just another one of the many questions I expect to never know the answer to. Calling the unkown answer by a name like "God" is not the same as finding the solution.
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Old 17th February 2011, 01:57 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
There is no evidence for God or gods and in addition there is overwhelming evidence gods are fictional beings people invented.

I disagree. There's overwhelming evidence that the institution and ideology surrounding and defining Gods ("religion") is the product of human invention. There's no evidence that Gods themselves were invented by humans. And given that there's evidence from as early as 50,000BC that humans might have believed in deities, I doubt there's much chance of us ever finding any evidence that deities are a human invention.
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Old 17th February 2011, 02:04 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
I disagree. There's overwhelming evidence that the institution and ideology surrounding and defining Gods ("religion") is the product of human invention. There's no evidence that Gods themselves were invented by humans. And given that there's evidence from as early as 50,000BC that humans might have believed in deities, I doubt there's much chance of us ever finding any evidence that deities are a human invention.
We've got stone axes older than that, but there is no question that they are tools made by early humans. Gods are stories. I think it is a pretty safe assumption to make that humans invented story-telling.

Unless you have another theory...
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Old 17th February 2011, 02:07 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I wanna have my name legally changed to God Almighty.
Be warry of doing that, if anything Hitchhiker/Discworld/Planescape guide taught me, is that since there is no evidence for gods, you run into the risk of disappearing into a puff of logic.
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Old 17th February 2011, 02:10 AM   #39
davefoc
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Originally Posted by JudeBrando View Post
Please explain and elaborate your own perspective on the matter as fully and completely as you are willing to do [Referring the OP title, There is no evidence for God].
I agree in principle and with Skeptic Ginger's expansion on this. However, I would disagree a bit on a semantic basis. There is a variety of evidence for the existence of god.

1. A lot of people claim that God exists.
Not good evidence from my perspective since lots of people claim all sorts of things but it is evidence.
2. Properties of the universe which are essential for life but there is not a scientific understanding of why they are the way they are suggesting the possibility of intelligent design with the establishment of the physical laws and properties of the universe.
This is only circumstantial evidence and there are various counter arguments but it is evidence.

Etc.

There is no proof for the existence of God and there are always alternative explanations for the evidence for God than the existence of God.
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Old 17th February 2011, 02:29 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
I think that's a cop-out. It's been laid out again and again what I and others will accept as evidence and believe that whichever god has evidence brought forth, exists.

Still doesn't mean that this god is worthy of worship or veneration.
I allow folk their freewill to believe or not as they prefer.
I would not presume to offer any evidence for the existence of God, as I have concluded that either side of the debate only ever has a 50% chance of being right. It always splits 50/50 what ever anyone says.
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