What kind of god sentences people to be tortured for eternity?

Ethnikos said:
God was pretty good and then he messed up somehow with this planet. He tried to hide it by just killing everyone and starting over. The people who survived and started to repopulate the planet remembered what he did and decided to go to heaven and complain to the higher authorities.
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Not a very intelligent god is he? If all humans were contaminated with the “original sin” and were so sinful, and he was willing to wipe the slate clean and start over again, why then save Drunkard Noah and his nakedness-revealing Sons? This is like me cutting out the cancer from a patient and leaving bits of it behind.


Ethnikos said:
Our god did not like that idea and stopped them by making it so they could not all join together and talk as one voice to the council of the gods.
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When I was a kid I remember watching the Lunar Landing on TV with my family. My grandmother was there and the following conversation ensued:
GM: This cannot happen, it is not real!
Me: Why grandma?
GM: Because God won’t let them!
Me: Why, what has god got to do with it?
GM: Go get the bible and read Gen 11
Me (after reading it): But grandma, that does not make sense. God would have to be a vile moron if we go by that story!
GM (after smacking me on the back of the head): Blasphemer!​


My grandmother went to her grave still not believing that man landed on the moon. I could not convince her either that the sky was not a dome and that the rainbow was not made by god as a memory jogging device for himself.
 
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Leumas said:
Not a very intelligent god is he? If all humans were contaminated with the “original sin” and were so sinful, and he was willing to wipe the slate clean and start over again, why then save Drunkard Noah and his nakedness-revealing Sons? This is like me cutting out the cancer from a patient and leaving bits of it behind.
*snip*
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Sea Goddess, who god had to ask to help in killing the people.
That god was never killed but only subdued enough to where god could bring forth dry land. She took pity on Noah, seeing he was good, gave him a plan to survive.
Psalms 89:10a Rahab was crushed by you like one wounded to death;. . .
Psalms 89:11 The heavens are yours, and yours also the earth; you founded the world and all that is in it.
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Geneses describes the union of the air god with the sea god (Rahab) to give birth to the earth and she had to consent if he was going to reverse the process, that she wisely refused to do entirely.
. . .darkness was over the surface of the watery deep, but the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the water. . .So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. . .
This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created – when the Lord God made the earth and heavens.
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God did not make the oceans. She is primordial and antecedes the male god.
 
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Re: free will

I myself can think of several different solutions for combating evil without interfering with anyone's free will, and I'm not even a supposedly perfect, just, and omniscient being. Being able to exercise free will and carrying out an action as a result of free will are two different things. If a tree falling on a rapist who is about to attack a woman is interfering with his free will, and thus mysteriously off limits to Gott, then I don't see how Gott could effect anything in reality, as believers claim he is able to do.

I once asked a Christian friend of mine to imagine a scenario in which a mugger comes up to him, puts a gun to his head, pulls the trigger, and nothing happens. The guns fails to fire. What would he do? "I would thank God," he responded. So apparently, y'all, Gott is perfectly able to keep firearms from going off and killing innocent people when he wants to. The problem, I guess, is getting him to want to.
 
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Leumas said:
Not a very intelligent god is he? If all humans were contaminated with the “original sin” and were so sinful, and he was willing to wipe the slate clean and start over again, why then save Drunkard Noah and his nakedness-revealing Sons? This is like me cutting out the cancer from a patient and leaving bits of it behind.




When I was a kid I remember watching the Lunar Landing on TV with my family. My grandmother was there and the following conversation ensued:
GM: This cannot happen, it is not real!
Me: Why grandma?
GM: Because God won’t let them!
Me: Why, what has god got to do with it?
GM: Go get the bible and read Gen 11
Me (after reading it): But grandma, that does not make sense. God would have to be a vile moron if we go by that story!
GM (after smacking me on the back of the head): Blasphemer!​
My grandmother went to her grave still not believing that man landed on the moon. I could not convince her either that the sky was not a dome and that the rainbow was not made by god as a memory jogging device for himself.
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If that had been my grandma I would have hit her back. Hard too. You don't get a pass to hit me just because you are an old woman.
 
TheAnachronism said:
Re: free will

I myself can think of several different solutions for combating evil without interfering with anyone's free will, and I'm not even a supposedly perfect, just, and omniscient being. Being able to exercise free will and carrying out an action as a result of free will are two different things. If a tree falling on a rapist who is about to attack a woman is interfering with his free will, and thus mysteriously off limits to Gott, then I don't see how Gott could effect anything in reality, as believers claim he is able to do.

I once asked a Christian friend of mine to imagine a scenario in which a mugger comes up to him, puts a gun to his head, pulls the trigger, and nothing happens. The guns fails to fire. What would he do? "I would thank God," he responded. So apparently, y'all, Gott is perfectly able to keep firearms from going off and killing innocent people when he wants to. The problem, I guess, is getting him to want to.
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AMAZING that you should mention that exact scenario.

In fact that is a TRUE story told to me by a REFORMED and SAVED born-again Christian who told me the story as his “witnessing” as to the SALVATION of Christ.

He was a drug dealing brigand who crossed some other drug dealer. He eventually was in a situation (according to him) where the other villain had his gun pointblank next to his temple and pulled the trigger. The gun misfired and he had time to bolt and run out of there. Later in prison he found Jesus and now is an active missionary for Jesus. He is fully convinced that Jesus saved him for the missionary work he was then doing.

He cites this story as his PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with the reality of Jesus as a personal savior and god.

Of course I was AFRAID to retort back to him (considering his past) that if Jesus saw fit to make a bullet misfire to save the life of a drug dealing scoundrel, why won’t he make the dick drop off a pedophiliac holy bugger before he penetrates the anus of an innocent boy. See this thread.
 
Travis said:
If that had been my grandma I would have hit her back. Hard too. You don't get a pass to hit me just because you are an old woman.
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Deut 21:18-21
A man might have a son who is stubborn and refuses to obey. This son does not obey his father or mother. They punish the son, but he still refuses to listen to them.

His father and mother must then take him to the leaders of the town at the town meeting place.

They must say to the leaders of the town: ‘Our son is stubborn and refuses to
obey. He does not do anything we tell him to do. He eats and he drinks too much.’

Then the men in the town must kill the son with stones. By doing this you will remove this evil from your group. Everyone in Israel will hear about this and be afraid.​
 
Leumas said:
AMAZING that you should mention that exact scenario.
...

He cites this story as his PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with the reality of Jesus as a personal savior and god.
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I can understand feeling very fortunate after surviving a close call, but I'll never understand thanking Gott for one's survival when so many others were less fortunate.

I'm sure 10-year old Marissa Emkens would have loved to thank Gott for saving her from some psychotic gunman. Unfortunately, Gott apparently wasn't in the mood that day. Maybe he was off saving some drug dealer somewhere?
 
TheAnachronism said:


I can understand feeling very fortunate after surviving a close call, but I'll never understand thanking Gott for one's survival when so many others were less fortunate.
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It is a very simple human trait that is especially heightened in theists..... EGOTISM and Self-centeredness. Of course that is in addition to acute and chronic inability to reason.
 
AvalonXQ said:
Annihilationist here.

But the basic answer is that whatever Hades is, it is the appropriate and proportional response for sin.

The correlary is that sinning is a very, very terrible thing, and humans are too wrapped up in it to understand that.
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So let me read that again :
* it is the god creator which MADE the human this way
* he made them too wrapped in it to understand it
* he then judge them to eternal hell for something they can't understand

Evil bastard.
 
Aepervius said:
Not as much wrong , as "assertion without evidence". Critically , he could still be right if he provide evidence of it. But I won't hold my breath on that.
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I'm not Mormon so I wont be quoting Joseph Smith for proof but I think he was onto a concept that has something to it. We should be the seed to colonize the galaxies but we need to get out of the killing frenzies before that can happen.
There is that famous line from Jesus, "Ye are gods". There is a body of literature in the OT where that likely comes from that goes into more detail and it has to do with the government and the judicial aspects and generally taking care of who you are charged with providing the welfare of.
 
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Complexity said:
You're going in the right direction, but not nearly far enough. Their 'god' is a presumptuous bastard.

Even if everyone else voted to be ruled by such a monstrosity, I would not be bound by their decision, for I have never ceded my authority to a group.

If their were a god (there's not) and it were anything like the judeochristianislamic god, I would be its implacable enemy.

It doesn't matter who would win - I love a good fight, and I'd be in the right.
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I suppose that if there were some sort of referendum and the Sky Fairy or whatever got 2/3 of the vote you could say that's a mandate to govern. Of course we don't want errand boys here. The real thing would have to stand in the referendum.
 
Leumas said:
Deut 21:18-21
A man might have a son who is stubborn and refuses to obey. This son does not obey his father or mother. They punish the son, but he still refuses to listen to them.

His father and mother must then take him to the leaders of the town at the town meeting place.

They must say to the leaders of the town: ‘Our son is stubborn and refuses to
obey. He does not do anything we tell him to do. He eats and he drinks too much.’

Then the men in the town must kill the son with stones. By doing this you will remove this evil from your group. Everyone in Israel will hear about this and be afraid.​
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I guess it's a good thing I think The Bible is nothing more than the insane scribblings of delusional people trapped in a desert.
 
Craig4 said:
I suppose that if there were some sort of referendum and the Sky Fairy or whatever got 2/3 of the vote you could say that's a mandate to govern. Of course we don't want errand boys here. The real thing would have to stand in the referendum.
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I never feel bound by group decisions.
 
A better question is why would a god allow people to be born in misery? I was in Kenya a while ago and was amazed at how religious (Pentecostal I think) the people in the slums were. If Jesus loved you, you'd have been born somewhere else.
 
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