ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Roger Coghill

Reply
Old 30th October 2004, 07:29 AM   #1
Rolfe
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 46,078
Roger Coghill is back.

Roger Coghill has returned.

It's a nuisance that he started that bloody thread in the Paranormal forum (though he doesn't think his products are paranormal in action), because the people who would normally assist in his shredding mostly hang about here.

All biologists, biochemists and electromagnetics experts may now consider themselves on duty in the above thread.

And by the way, BSM, he really, really HATES vets, you ought to drop in and say hi if nothing else. Wouldn't you like to know about the great "purpose configured neodymium static magnets" which eliminate 95% of ascarid worms, compared to only 75% eliminated by piperazine? Or how your pets will always choose to drink his "magnetised" water, if only you'd buy one of his magic coasters, also useful to improve the taste of wine....

Come on in, the (magnetised) water's lovely....

Rolfe.
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2004, 08:24 AM   #2
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 33,312
I hadn't realised he was in here. I first noticed him when he was quoted (http://www.protectyourhealth.co.uk/scientists.html) as endorsing a device called the "Phone Dome," which seems to be a small red plastic button which, when stuck on a mobile phone, wards off the evil radiation (the same people also market the "Compu Dome," which seems to be, er, a small red plastic button...).

I particularly liked the stuff on his website about a product called "asphalia." For some reason I couldn't find it there today, but something seems to have been "Removed by request of MHRA" last month. Maybe that was it?

Mind you, the other two alleged phone dome endorsees were even funnier, especially the guy talking about "sitting at out of range distances from TV Gamma Rays."

Didn't find the "Coghill Challenge" very funny though.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2004, 08:42 AM   #3
Rolfe
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 46,078
That's the one. That's where it started, too, when Cleopatra read an advertisement for the PhoneShield thing. Roger must have been alerted to the discussion, because he joined up and tried to defend his pseudoscientific BS. Unfortunately he hasn't the first idea what he's talking about, believes every crazy woo theory, and also believes that everyone in the "mainstream" is part of a conspiracy to suppress the dangers of mobile phones and power lines, and that cancer isn't a genetically-mediated condition and is easily curable.

The fun bit is that he never gives up, and although he isn't a scientist he plays one on the Internet. Nice line in technobabble.

He can't manage the forum software, and is incapable of posting other than in the Paranormal forum. Hence he only gets a proportion of the possible debunkers. Hans and Pragmatist and PJ and Bill Hoyt (and others) did a very good job, but I'm sure people like ThirdTwin and Badly Shaved Monkey and Hunstsman and Zombified would be better occupied dealing with this dangerous nutter than squashing poor, harmless Kumar.

Rolfe.
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2004, 10:47 AM   #4
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 33,312
I've had a quick look at the "bioelectromagnetics" thread, but I don't think I can face reading all 2,500ish posts at the moment; my eyes started glazing over after a few pages. I think I'd rather go down the pub. Also, it seems to start a little abruptly. Has it been pruned?

Yes, I think I'd rather go down the pub...
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2004, 10:57 AM   #5
Zombified
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,366
Quote:
Originally posted by Rolfe
I'm sure people like ThirdTwin and Badly Shaved Monkey and Hunstsman and Zombified
I'm flattered, to be mentioned in such distinguished company!
Quote:
...would be better occupied dealing with this dangerous nutter than squashing poor, harmless Kumar.
*groan* What a waste of time Kumar is. Oh well, at least I'm not wasting my time trying to explain physics to him any more...
Zombified is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2004, 12:09 PM   #6
Dr Adequate
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,766
Re: Roger Coghill is back.

Quote:
Originally posted by Rolfe
Roger Coghill has returned.

It's a nuisance that he started that bloody thread in the Paranormal forum (though he doesn't think his products are paranormal in action), because the people who would normally assist in his shredding mostly hang about here.

All biologists, biochemists and electromagnetics experts may now consider themselves on duty in the above thread.

And by the way, BSM, he really, really HATES vets, you ought to drop in and say hi if nothing else. Wouldn't you like to know about the great "purpose configured neodymium static magnets" which eliminate 95% of ascarid worms, compared to only 75% eliminated by piperazine? Or how your pets will always choose to drink his "magnetised" water, if only you'd buy one of his magic coasters, also useful to improve the taste of wine....

Come on in, the (magnetised) water's lovely....

Rolfe.
Rolfe is just sore because Mr RW Coghill MA (Cantab.) C Biol. MI Biol. MA (Environ Mgt) (he he he) has blown Rolfe's cover as a member of the Evil International Pro-Cancer Conspiracy.
Quote:
Originally posted by cogreslab
This description is not incompatible with my argument that lack of oxygen is a prime cause of the metabolic changes which lead to cancer, however inconvenient that may be to the pharmaceutical industry, who peddle high cost chemotherapy products, many of which are ultimately ineffective. I suspect Rolfe is a part of that huge industry, whose ultimate aim is profit not curative treatment, and this is why he is using every means he can to suppress and denigrate these new and proven interventions.
Seriously, folks, this man needs to have his still-beating heart ripped out of his body and sacrificed to the Truth God before his horrified and staring eyes. There's no other way. Bring your own obsidian knife, and hurry while there's still some left to go round.
Dr Adequate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2004, 12:09 PM   #7
BillHoyt
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,755
Rolfe,

Thanks for the tip. I'm on it like ugly on an ape.
BillHoyt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2004, 02:59 PM   #8
Rolfe
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 46,078
Re: Re: Roger Coghill is back.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr Adequate
Seriously, folks, this man needs to have his still-beating heart ripped out of his body and sacrificed to the Truth God before his horrified and staring eyes. There's no other way. Bring your own obsidian knife, and hurry while there's still some left to go round.
Sorry, I just had to quote that because I got the uncontrollable giggles.

There is a copy of the full version of the early pages of that thread, which accidentally got Roger's posts removed during moderatorial action to save it off-line as a result of Roger's repeated reporting of posts he didn't like as "breaking the law".

It all started in a thread begun by Cleopatra, for the completists, but really, never mind the history, this man is pseudoscientific and dangerous. He can't remember what's already been said either, so why should you care? Just get in there and debunk the lying quack.

Rolfe, BVMS, BSc, PhD, CBiol, FIBiol, MRCVS (which might explain the strength of my reaction against him).
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st October 2004, 03:54 AM   #9
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 33,312
Thanks for the link; it all makes a bit more sense now.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st October 2004, 05:13 AM   #10
Benguin
Too Chilled For The Anti-Homeopathy Illuminati
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,897
If he's got such a bee in his bonnet about mobile phones emitting dangerous rays (or woteva) why not do the sensible, ethical thing and counsel people against using them?

Then he wouldn't have all that hassle and inconvenience of having to sell a dumb bit of nothing to feckless morons for a mere £40. Oh, hang on, I think I get it now.

Here Hans, have you noticed that flattering bio of you he's got on his website?
__________________
It has been said cats have nine lives which, if true, makes them great candidates for experimentation.

100,000 medical doctors say go read this before quoting their articles. Probably.

Voltaire
"Atheism - the vice of a few intelligent people"
Benguin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st October 2004, 10:05 AM   #11
Zombified
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,366
Seems to have been a rant-and-run...
Zombified is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st October 2004, 10:26 AM   #12
Benguin
Too Chilled For The Anti-Homeopathy Illuminati
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,897
Quote:
Originally posted by Zombified
Seems to have been a rant-and-run...
Maybe he's amusing himself with a sock ... mmm, obsession with magnets and EM fields, tendency to irritate MRC_Hans beyond the call of duty, latching onto any woo-theory about modern tech threatening health .... I wonder what his views are on the tartness of red wine?

I feel another substantiated rumour coming on.
__________________
It has been said cats have nine lives which, if true, makes them great candidates for experimentation.

100,000 medical doctors say go read this before quoting their articles. Probably.

Voltaire
"Atheism - the vice of a few intelligent people"
Benguin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st October 2004, 10:53 AM   #13
Rolfe
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 46,078
Oh, Coghill's real enough. Though I wouldn't totally swear he hasn't had other socks here, he seems genuinely incapable of getting out of the "Paranormal" forum area.

And he hasn't been in the habit of ranting and running before.

We'll see.

Rolfe.
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2004, 06:35 PM   #14
Zombified
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,366
Quote:
Originally posted by Rolfe
And he hasn't been in the habit of ranting and running before.
Appears to be the case this time, unfortunately...

You've been dropping dark hints for a couple of weeks now... any interesting developments you can discuss besides him taking his bogus products off the 'net?
Zombified is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 07:17 AM   #15
Rolfe
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 46,078
Quote:
Originally posted by Zombified
Appears to be the case this time, unfortunately...

You've been dropping dark hints for a couple of weeks now... any interesting developments you can discuss besides him taking his bogus products off the 'net?
We'll let you know....

He did reappear for a little while on Sunday afternoon, but he didn't post in the thread where he was being summarily shredded, and he hasn't been back since. He seems to have removed the Harmoniser from his product list, but the bogus experiment is still there. Much good removing stuff will do him anyway, as there's an archive copy online, and Claus has the whole lot on CD anyway. Plus, I think this "no editing of posts beyond 2 hours" is a great thing, look at all the stuff he's said that he simply can't retract.

Anyway, noticed this in his "about us" page.
Quote:
ViewDVD, an Internet based operation designed entirely within the group, is Britain’s largest online DVD rental club, and its revenue provides a steady flow of funds for our research.
So, he runs a DVD rental store, and funds his hobby from that. Better stick to your day job, Roger!

Rolfe.
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 07:54 AM   #16
BillHoyt
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,755
Quote:
Originally posted by Benguin
I wonder what his views are on the tartness of red wine?
Place the bottle directly under the apex of a pyramid. Five minutes. Tartness cured. Also works for hangnails, but you need a bigger pyramid.
BillHoyt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 08:15 AM   #17
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 22,944
Yeah, he did remove the harmonizer advert! Great! He also changed the article about my article about him . It now contains only minor lies. In fact it now contains very little, heheh.

I wonder who is doing his website design for him , he is rapidly becoming a contender for the Worst Website Design of the Year.

Hans
__________________
Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 08:31 AM   #18
Rolfe
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 46,078
Quote:
Originally posted by MRC_Hans
I wonder who is doing his website design for him , he is rapidly becoming a contender for the Worst Website Design of the Year.
Oh, Hans, you didn't notice the sentence before the one I quoted in my previous post? In the part about all the varied and diverse interests of Mr. and Mrs. Coghill?
Quote:
Galonjaweb provides website design services for the group and outside clients.
"Galonjaweb" is obviously Mrs. Coghill's little enterprise. I wonder how many outside clients she's got?

Rolfe.
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 08:58 AM   #19
Lothian
should be banned
 
Lothian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside
Posts: 15,707
I was in Sainsburys recently waiting for a prescription when I noticed they were selling the phone guards. I saw the that Rogers Lab did the testing.

I also noted they had nearby displayed a brochure of products. All sorts of legitimate things included such things as bandages and braces. I recall it was an A4 binder with laminated pages (?)

But there was also contained 2 pages full of magnet ‘therapy’ jewellery. The items were accompanied by claims such as ‘proven to help blood circulation’ that missed the usual ‘thought to’ or ‘believed to’ that they normally contain to get round the fact that they don’t work.

Unfortunately I only saw this as my prescription arrived and was in a hurry to get home before the frozen stuff I bought previously melted but I intend taking a closer look next time and getting a copy so I can complain officially.

I’m interested to know if it was just my store or whether this catalogue is at all Sainsburys stores. I know David Sainsbury’s charity takes an interest in medical matters so it may be worth copying him in.
Lothian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 09:06 AM   #20
Psiload
Master Poster
 
Psiload's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,102
Check out the latest scam gadget Roger is hawking:

http://www.gainex.co.uk/index.htm

Gainex Magnetic Fuel Economiser

* Save up to 20% on your fuel costs

* Boosts engine performance

* Environmentally kind by lowering harmful exhaust emissions

* Cleans existing carbon deposits on your engine

Quote:
How Gainex works
Gainex consists of a strip of 4 strong neodymium magnets, coated and wrapped in a waterproof chemical material. When attached to the incoming fuel line, it creates a powerful magnetic field around it. As the fuel sits in the tank, changes in temperature and humidity cause it to expand and contract. Eventually, the hydrocarbon molecules in the fuel begin to attract each other, forming molecular clusters. By applying Gainex to your fuel line, as near as possible to the engine, creates a mode of action, which de-clusters the build up of hydrocarbons in the engine that affects the performance of the car. Once the hydrocarbons are de-clustered, the number of hydrogen atoms exposed to incoming oxygen increases, leading to a more efficient combustion of fuel in both petrol and diesel engines. This then results in a reduction in harmful emission gases and overall improvement in fuel consumption and engine performance
. This technical innovation was designed by Coghill Research Laboratories, specialists in the field of bio-electro magnetics
Be sure to check out the Scientific Tests:

http://www.cogreslab.co.uk/gainextest.htm

And just how does Roger go about testing a device which is claimed to increase fuel efficiency in automobiles? By installing it in an automobile perhaps(tools are not even required for installation)?

Of course not...

By hooking it up to a Bunsen burner, using methane as fuel, and comparing it against A COMPETITOR'S MAGNETIC FUEL-SAVING GIZMO!!!

You've got to marvel at the kind of convoluted, fantastic, bizarro-world logic that Roger applies to testing such a simple, straight forward claim.
__________________
You're not the boss of me.
Psiload is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 09:32 AM   #21
Pragmatist
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,529
Quote:
Originally posted by Lothian
I was in Sainsburys recently waiting for a prescription when I noticed they were selling the phone guards. I saw the that Rogers Lab did the testing.

I also noted they had nearby displayed a brochure of products. All sorts of legitimate things included such things as bandages and braces. I recall it was an A4 binder with laminated pages (?)

But there was also contained 2 pages full of magnet ‘therapy’ jewellery. The items were accompanied by claims such as ‘proven to help blood circulation’ that missed the usual ‘thought to’ or ‘believed to’ that they normally contain to get round the fact that they don’t work.

Unfortunately I only saw this as my prescription arrived and was in a hurry to get home before the frozen stuff I bought previously melted but I intend taking a closer look next time and getting a copy so I can complain officially.

I’m interested to know if it was just my store or whether this catalogue is at all Sainsburys stores. I know David Sainsbury’s charity takes an interest in medical matters so it may be worth copying him in.
I was rather horrified to find this on the web:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archi.../t-142797.html

"Not that the ASA are much good at detecting pseudosicence when it's presented to them.
Last year I took a complaint against the makers of the ' Mobile Protection Chip' last year but the ASA accepted the manufacture's claims in full based on ' laboratory evidence ' from these guys Harry Oldfield (http://www.electrocrystal.com/pip.html) and Roger Coghill (http://www.cogreslab.co.uk/) Two well established psuedoscientists.

I appealed the ASA decision and I asked the ASA to have the data submitted by the company evaluated by someone with a technical background ( I suggested that the ASA ask Comreg for technical advice on the matter since they are responsible for electromagnetic field strength monitoring) but the ASA chose to dismiss the case and accept fully the manufacturers claims for the mobile protection chip instead."
Pragmatist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 09:35 AM   #22
Pragmatist
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,529
Quote:
Originally posted by Psiload
By hooking it up to a Bunsen burner, using methane as fuel, and comparing it against A COMPETITOR'S MAGNETIC FUEL-SAVING GIZMO!!!

You've got to marvel at the kind of convoluted, fantastic, bizarro-world logic that Roger applies to testing such a simple, straight forward claim.
Wot? No Lymphocytes?

And I think "logic" is too generous a term...
Pragmatist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 09:45 AM   #23
Zombified
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,366
If you want to find every magnetic therapy and bullsh*t electromagnetic protection device on the Internet, just Google for Roger Coghill. I think he makes money 'testing' these for various people and producing reports purporting to prove them 'scientificably'.

Let us know when you pounce, Rolfe.
Zombified is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 10:14 AM   #24
Pragmatist
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,529
It seems Coghill is busy with a new "project"...

From: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bioele...s/message/2623

From: "Roger Coghill" <roger@c...>
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:14 pm
Subject: RE: [bioelectromagnetics] Re: press conference on mobil radiation and brain c...

Dear Marko, and any who may also see this.

Just to mention, on the subject of peer reviewed journals, that a new online
peer-reviewed journal is due to publish its first issue in January 2005
called European Biology and Bioelectromagnetics, and welcomes submissions
from authors as of 1 November 2004. Further information is on their website,
www.ebab.eu.com including instructions to authors.

Roger Coghill
MA (Cantab) C Biol MI Biol MA (Environ Mgt)

Coghill Research Laboratories

Visit our website: http://www.cogreslab.co.uk"


Here is an earlier reference, which shows clearly who is behind this:

From: http://www.fgf.de/english/aktuell/ne...neu.php?id=133

"New Bioelectromagnetics journal starting in January 2005
“European Biology and Bioelectromagnetics” will be the title of the new bi-monthly fully peer reviewed on-line scientific journal publishing papers in the field of bioelectromagnetics. The first issue is announced for January 2005. The journal will have an international Editorial Board, but will offer a central platform for European bioelectromagnetics research, whose adherents often find it difficult to publish except in scattered journals not having bioelectromagnetics as a core focus. The managing Editor will be Simon Best who has had many years experience in bioelectromagnetics reporting.
http://www.cogreslab.co.uk/"


If you go to the listed web site in the first post above, you will find a list of people on the editorial board. Coghill isn't mentioned, but who actually OWNS this "journal"? Simon Best isn't listed either.

If you are in any doubt however, I suggest you look at the online sample issue 1 and its keynote article which is here:

http://anon.user.anonymizer.com/http...ebabsample.pdf

Yep, you guessed it, the article is nothing other than "Melatonin - a molecule for the modern age" by none other than Roger Coghill MA etc....

I haven't read the article yet. Will do now. I have smelling salts on hand, don't worry anyone!
Pragmatist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 10:36 AM   #25
Psiload
Master Poster
 
Psiload's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,102
Quote:
Originally posted by Pragmatist
It seems Coghill is busy with a new "project"...

From: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bioele...s/message/2623

From: "Roger Coghill" <roger@c...>
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:14 pm
Subject: RE: [bioelectromagnetics] Re: press conference on mobil radiation and brain c...

Dear Marko, and any who may also see this.

Just to mention, on the subject of peer reviewed journals, that a new online
peer-reviewed journal is due to publish its first issue in January 2005
called European Biology and Bioelectromagnetics, and welcomes submissions
from authors as of 1 November 2004. Further information is on their website,
www.ebab.eu.com including instructions to authors.

Roger Coghill
MA (Cantab) C Biol MI Biol MA (Environ Mgt)

Coghill Research Laboratories

Visit our website: http://www.cogreslab.co.uk"


Here is an earlier reference, which shows clearly who is behind this:

From: http://www.fgf.de/english/aktuell/ne...neu.php?id=133

"New Bioelectromagnetics journal starting in January 2005
“European Biology and Bioelectromagnetics” will be the title of the new bi-monthly fully peer reviewed on-line scientific journal publishing papers in the field of bioelectromagnetics. The first issue is announced for January 2005. The journal will have an international Editorial Board, but will offer a central platform for European bioelectromagnetics research, whose adherents often find it difficult to publish except in scattered journals not having bioelectromagnetics as a core focus. The managing Editor will be Simon Best who has had many years experience in bioelectromagnetics reporting.
http://www.cogreslab.co.uk/"


If you go to the listed web site in the first post above, you will find a list of people on the editorial board. Coghill isn't mentioned, but who actually OWNS this "journal"? Simon Best isn't listed either.

If you are in any doubt however, I suggest you look at the online sample issue 1 and its keynote article which is here:

http://anon.user.anonymizer.com/http...ebabsample.pdf

Yep, you guessed it, the article is nothing other than "Melatonin - a molecule for the modern age" by none other than Roger Coghill MA etc....

I haven't read the article yet. Will do now. I have smelling salts on hand, don't worry anyone!
In the Instructions for Authors section, we see the guidelines for authors submitting articles:

http://www.ebab.eu.com/aut_inst1.asp

Among them:

Assurances, Notifications, and Conflicts of Interest:

Quote:
Authors must acknowledge all financial or in kind support of the work from sources outside of their institutions. They must also identify any significant past or present situations that plausibly might affect the ability of any of them to make disinterested scientific judgments related to the work. (my emphasis) Such situations are impossible to list fully, but they include past or present employment or affiliation to any activist group; paid or unpaid consulting; substantial financial interest or ownership on the part of an author or a close family member or other personally significant individual; other types of close or adversarial personal or professional relationships; etc. Such situations also include some types of participation or oversight by sponsors in research design, implementation, or publication.
So the Editorial Board had no problem with Roger's Gainex(tm) Magnetic Fuel Economiser, or his "testing and certification" work?

If those aren't conflicts of interest, then what the hell is?
__________________
You're not the boss of me.
Psiload is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 10:37 AM   #26
Pragmatist
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,529
I just read it. I'm slowly getting over it...

It's the same BS as usual. Full of non-sequiturs, hasty conclusions and outright misinformation. I think a rebuttal is called for.

I really don't know what to say about the suggestion that we should all stock up on melatonin in case we are hit by terrorists with a dirty bomb, for example!

I wonder where we should buy it from? Oh, silly me, I forgot...

And I have learned something new: "Below 30 Mhz electric and magnetic fields are measured in volts and amps per metre". Silly me again, there I was thinking that electric and magnetic fields were measured in those units at ALL frequencies....

Oh, and my question about who is really behind this alleged "new journal" is answered on the first page:

"Published by Medcross Ltd, Pontypool, Wales"

Anyone else think this is just adding insult to injury?
Pragmatist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 10:46 AM   #27
Pragmatist
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,529
Quote:
Originally posted by Psiload
In the Instructions for Authors section, we see the guidelines for authors submitting articles:

http://www.ebab.eu.com/aut_inst1.asp

Among them:

Assurances, Notifications, and Conflicts of Interest:

So the Editorial Board had no problem with Roger's Gainex(tm) Magnetic Fuel Economiser, or his "testing and certification" work?

If those aren't conflicts of interest, then what the hell is?
Tip of the iceberg!

He's affiliated with dozens of protest and activist groups.
He acts as a "consultant" on radiation hazards (don't laugh)
He owns the bloody journal!
He sells friggin' Melatonin (allegedly - we still don't know if there's any melatonin IN the crap he sells!).

And all this is disclosed WHERE exactly?

This is just TOO much!
Pragmatist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 11:02 AM   #28
Psiload
Master Poster
 
Psiload's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,102
Quote:
Originally posted by Pragmatist
Tip of the iceberg!

He's affiliated with dozens of protest and activist groups.
He acts as a "consultant" on radiation hazards (don't laugh)
He owns the bloody journal!
He sells friggin' Melatonin (allegedly - we still don't know if there's any melatonin IN the crap he sells!).

And all this is disclosed WHERE exactly?

This is just TOO much!
To be fair to Roger, the lion's share of his funding probably does come from a DVD rental business.
__________________
You're not the boss of me.
Psiload is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 11:04 AM   #29
BillHoyt
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,755
Where can one do a whois on an eu country code registration? Uwhois doesn't seem to recognize it.
BillHoyt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 11:11 AM   #30
Zombified
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,366
http://www.eu.com will cough up subdomain registrations. It seems to be delegating to whois.centralnic.net.

ebab.eu.com is registered to Coghill in the name of Medcross Ltd; the email contact is roger at cogreslab. There's an address and a telephone number if you're really ornery.
Zombified is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 11:14 AM   #31
Rolfe
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 46,078
I'm sorry, but the minute I read the one-liner about the new journal on Roger's web site, I just assumed the rest without even really thinking about it. I can't find the reference right now, but I recall that when Roger left Cambridge in the early '60s he first went to work for Morgan Grenfell, but then moved into the financial arm of some branch of publishing. If this is on his web site I'm not sure where I should be looking, but I definitely saw it somewhere.

He spent 20 years, from 1962 to 1982 approximately, completely out of touch with science and working in financial institutions, mostly connected to publishing. He worships the "peer reviewed paper" quite blindly (as we all know, everything depends on the peers, doesn't it, and I think anyone who might be seen as Roger's peer is probably wanting in all sorts of ways). So, what could be simpler. Set up your own journal, appoint your own peers, and off you go.

Rolfe.
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 11:17 AM   #32
Pragmatist
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,529
O.K. a little more digging.

So who exactly is Simon Best, the "Managing Editor" of this new "independent journal"?

From: http://www.em-hazard-therapy.com/

"Electromagnetic Hazard and Therapy is published 6 times a year.

Edited by award winning medical journalist Simon Best, he is assisted by Alasdair Philips, Director of Powerwatch UK.

Contributors include researcher Roger Coghill, biophysicist Dr Cyril Smith and optician/researcher Anne Silk."


O.K. the "usual suspects".

Alasdair Philips who does "consultancy" for people on how dangerous their homes are (and presumably charges accordingly), and one of Coghill's co-conspirators in the disgusting set up of Wayne Morgan, the innocent phone vendor whose business they ruined.

Cyril Smith, into pendulums, dowsing rods, vibrating acupuncture meridians and above all, King of the Hard Boiled Egg Slicer.

Don't know who Anne Silk is...yet.

More here:

From: http://www.kindredspirit.co.uk/ARTIC...ile_phones.asp

•Simon Best is the co-author, with biophysicist Dr Cyril Smith of Salford University, of the book Electromagnetic Man: health and hazard in the electrical environment (Dent, 1989). He edits and publishes the quarterly news report ‘Electromagnetic Hazard & Therapy’ which covers all aspects of electromagnetic pollution as well as the positive uses of electromagnetism in various therapies. For details and back issue contents, send an s.a.e. to: Electromagnetic Hazard & Therapy, Box 2039, Shoreham, W. Sussex BN43 5JD. Email: simonbest@EM-hazard-therapy.com Website: www.EM-hazard-therapy.com
•Simon offers a live premium rate Helpline (£1.50/ min, UK only) on: 0906 4010237.


That last line really says it all!

As for who "Anne Silk" is, just found this:

From: http://www.divstrat.com.au/dowsing/G...the_earth.html

"Anne Silk's contribution to this work is her scientific understanding of the effects of ambient electromagnetic energies on the human body. I was particularly interested in their theory that crossing energy leys could contain hologram-type images such as ghosts and apparitions which are released by the interaction of the observer on those leys; apparitions which show some awareness of the observer could be blind springs where spirits are trapped and that many hallucinatory experiences can be generated by "hot spots" from modern electrical sources, natural energy sources and seismic energy changes. Manifestations that seem real to the observer may be caused therefore by the earth-energy-induced stimulation of the brain and in evidence Anne's research shows the large differences in brain activity taken from an individual in a place of "healthy" earth energy as opposed to a second depressed activity scan taken of the same individual over an underground stream.

Which I guess ALSO says it all really...
Pragmatist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 11:24 AM   #33
BillHoyt
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,755
Quote:
Originally posted by Rolfe
He worships the "peer reviewed paper" quite blindly (as we all know, everything depends on the peers, doesn't it, and I think anyone who might be seen as Roger's peer is probably wanting in all sorts of ways). So, what could be simpler. Set up your own journal, appoint your own peers, and off you go.

Rolfe.
Unfortunately, its a good foil for the standard skeptic request for citations from peer-reviewed journals. There's so much of this woo-vanity press out there now that this request falls on its face. The next layer of the problem is even worse, though, because it now gives them self-fulfilling evidence of the postmodernist rhetoric/narrative/tribes claims. We need to be very circumspect and very clear in our requests and our explanations of why such papers are of nearly zilch value.
BillHoyt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 11:27 AM   #34
Pragmatist
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,529
Quote:
Originally posted by Rolfe
I'm sorry, but the minute I read the one-liner about the new journal on Roger's web site, I just assumed the rest without even really thinking about it. I can't find the reference right now, but I recall that when Roger left Cambridge in the early '60s he first went to work for Morgan Grenfell, but then moved into the financial arm of some branch of publishing. If this is on his web site I'm not sure where I should be looking, but I definitely saw it somewhere.

He spent 20 years, from 1962 to 1982 approximately, completely out of touch with science and working in financial institutions, mostly connected to publishing. He worships the "peer reviewed paper" quite blindly (as we all know, everything depends on the peers, doesn't it, and I think anyone who might be seen as Roger's peer is probably wanting in all sorts of ways). So, what could be simpler. Set up your own journal, appoint your own peers, and off you go.

Rolfe.
Well, so did I. But I didn't bother to look because I just assumed it would be an obvious "Coghill Special" and nobody would take any notice of it.

What I didn't realise was that (superficially) credible people would be fronted as being an "Editorial Board". Of course some of those are now beginning to distinctly look like quacks themselves.

The real problem is PERCEIVED credibility. Coghill is already being quoted as an expert all over the place by rabid newsmedia, the few objections to that consist of credible scientists pointing out that his work is unpublished and not peer reviewed. So as you say, he now short circuits that problem with vanity publishing under a veneer of "peer review". To my mind the scam has gone far enough. It'll be harder to stop once it is underway.
Pragmatist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 11:28 AM   #35
Rolfe
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 46,078
It's enlightening to note that you don't have to scratch this lot very deep at all to get at the real woo.

Roger came on as a straight scientist with all his lymphocyte cultures and his fancy electromagnetic instruments, but Cleopatra had him pegged early on when she homed in on the book about Atlantis and the link to the medium's web site (all that about necromancy, priceless....)

Another link is this whole woo stuff about vibrations and energy medicine. That's how the homoeopaths and the acupuncturists and all the no-touch gang like radionics and pranamonics and so on talk. It's all about these mysterious energies, homoeopathic remedies have energy in them that resonates at the frequency of the remedy and so on. Very close to Roger's stuff about vibrating energies of foods, and bad vibrations making you ill.

This guy isn't a cigarette paper removed from the homoeopaths and their mates, he just dresses it up better.

Rolfe.
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 11:30 AM   #36
Psiload
Master Poster
 
Psiload's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,102
Roger's hobby seems to be snowballing into an obsession of epic proportions. Publishing one's own journal? Talk about your vanity press.

How long before the Cogreslab bunch don the matching Nikes and drink the Kool-Aid?
__________________
You're not the boss of me.
Psiload is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 11:36 AM   #37
Zombified
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,366
One wonders if this new journal would be vulnerable to an Alan Sokal-type exercise...
Zombified is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 11:37 AM   #38
Pragmatist
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,529
Quote:
Originally posted by Psiload
Roger's hobby seems to be snowballing into an obsession of epic proportions. Publishing one's own journal? Talk about your vanity press.

How long before the Cogreslab bunch don the matching Nikes and drink the Kool-Aid?
Don't give him ideas! Next, it'll be "Coghill Cola" with added Melatonin!

Not, "Coke adds life", but "Coggycola protects against all forms of EM radiation"...!

I really don't know whether to laugh or cry...honestly!
Pragmatist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 11:44 AM   #39
Psiload
Master Poster
 
Psiload's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,102
Quote:
Originally posted by Zombified
One wonders if this new journal would be vulnerable to an Alan Sokal-type exercise...
How about the Harmoniser(tm) Lemon Juice Experiment?
__________________
You're not the boss of me.
Psiload is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2004, 11:44 AM   #40
Pragmatist
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,529
Quote:
Originally posted by Zombified
One wonders if this new journal would be vulnerable to an Alan Sokal-type exercise...
Hmmm....!

(Pragmatist leans back in his chair with a big evil grin on his face...)
Pragmatist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:50 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.