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Old 21st February 2011, 11:04 AM   #1121
Reality Check
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Care to explain that Mars geology, in the video, from a mainstream point of view RC?
No - I am not a geologist.
Care to explain why I should watch a video from an author who posts on a web site that lies to its readers and displays an deep ignorance of basic science, Haig?

Care to explain why I should watch a video on Marian geology by David Talbott
Quote:
David N. Talbott (born 1942) is an American author and inveterate promoter of neo-Velikovskian ideas. Inspired by Immanuel Velikovsky, he proposes a “Polar Configuration” involving the five planets, Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, Mars, Earth, in order, and its influence on the human mythology
So David Talbott is ignorant of basically all science since before Newton.

Last edited by Reality Check; 21st February 2011 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 21st February 2011, 02:09 PM   #1122
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
So David Talbott is ignorant of basically all science since before Newton.

He's not ignorant, I suspect that he knows at least some post Newtonian physics, just chooses to ignore the parts that don't adhere to his world view. He does come across to me as a strong catastrophist proponent, and mild velisophsky cultist.

He's definitely not a real scientist.
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Old 24th February 2011, 02:34 PM   #1123
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Lightbulb Comets Are Not "Rocks" II

Originally Posted by Tim Thompson View Post
Originally Posted by Haig View Post
That's a post and a site I don't recognise ...
OK, so not only do you not recognize the NASA website that you posted, but you don't even recognize your own post. Maybe you should post less, and think about what you post just a bit more?

Originally Posted by Tim Thompson View Post
Personally, I think "fragile and weak" and "dirty ice ball" go together fairly well. On the other hand, "rocks having electrical discharges" and "fragile and weak" don't go together well at all. So Haig quotes material that proves Haig's quote is wrong. Interesting.
Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Not sure what your getting at here ...
I thought it was pretty obvious:
Haig posts EU website that claims comets are rocks (post #924)
Haig posts NASA website that shows comets are "fragile and weak" (post #1111).
Haig posts mutually contradictory websites trying to imply that both are correct.
Conclusion: One does not believe that Haig knows what Haig is talking about. The fact that Haig cannot recognize his own post, or the website he posted, certainly reinforces this conclusion.

Also see my earlier posts: Comets Are Not "Rocks" (1 August 2009) and Electric Comets III: No EU X-rays (21 June 2009).
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Old 24th February 2011, 05:38 PM   #1124
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Originally Posted by Tim Thompson View Post
OK, so not only do you not recognize the NASA website that you posted, but you don't even recognize your own post. Maybe you should post less, and think about what you post just a bit more?
I don't recognise it Tim because I didn't post it. It's not the NASA link (that's the next one in your post #1116). The first one is "electriceverything.com" which I have never seen before you posted it HERE

You seem a bit mixed up Tim but no need to apologise just let me do a RC on you and throw your own words back at you:

OK, so not only do you not recognize the NASA everythingselectric.com website that you posted, but you don't even recognize your own post. Maybe you should post less, and think about what you post just a bit more?
Quote:
I thought it was pretty obvious:
Haig posts EU website that claims comets are rocks (post #924)
Haig posts NASA website that shows comets are "fragile and weak" (post #1111).
Haig posts mutually contradictory websites trying to imply that both are correct.
Conclusion: One does not believe that Haig knows what Haig is talking about. The fact that Haig cannot recognize his own post, or the website he posted, certainly reinforces this conclusion.
Kind of rings a bit hollow when it's your mistake Tim
Quote:
Also see my earlier posts: Comets Are Not "Rocks" (1 August 2009) and Electric Comets III: No EU X-rays (21 June 2009).
Thanks for these, I'll have a look when I've more time but I hope they make more sense than your last post
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Old 24th February 2011, 05:56 PM   #1125
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Originally Posted by Tim Thompson View Post
OK, so not only do you not recognize the NASA website that you posted, but you don't even recognize your own post. Maybe you should post less, and think about what you post just a bit more?
I don't recognise it Tim because I didn't post it. It's not the NASA link (that's the next one in your post #1116). The first one is "electriceverything.com" which I have never seen before you posted it HERE


Haig, you posted a link to that "electriceverything.com" (ETA: actually "everythingselectric.com") URL in post #924:
Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Everybody here can confirm the bogosity of your denial by clicking on the link in that quotation. (ETA: by clicking on the red link next to Haig.)

Maybe you should post less, and think about what you post just a bit more.

Last edited by W.D.Clinger; 24th February 2011 at 06:26 PM. Reason: two changes, both marked by "ETA"
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Old 24th February 2011, 08:34 PM   #1126
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Funny Haig!

Your post:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=924

Your link:
http://www.everythingselectric.com/f...84&topic=329.0

Quote:
Comet Hartley 2 is not a dirty iceball having sublimation. Comet Hartley 2 and all other comets are rock/mineral with virtually no ice and the amazing jets are EDM (Electric Discharge Machining) occuring on the surface due to the potential difference between this object as it comes closer to the sun.

Do you really want to deny the second part?

Are you for real Haig?

Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
That one blog post or any others ays it all haig, they calim all sort so reasons the mainstream science, in this case geology, is wrong. then they give a bunch of made up stuff to support imaginary claims.
I see what you mean. It's not well put IMO.

Quote:
Do you really think that electrical forces blasted the Matterhorn 500 km. ? Do you really think that mainstream geology does note xplain it?
Mmmmm I'd need a bit more evidence than I read in that piece. Yes, mainstream geology does have a plausible explanation.

Quote:
So far there is nothing I have read on Thunderbolts that makes sense in the evidence.
I think that video on the weird Martian geology makes me think mainstream can't explain it's formation easily. Perhaps you do?

Quote:
yes, I do read it, and try to understand it, that is the way you can critique, apparently not something you have done for mainstream comet science.
Know the enemy! I understand that I do read some mainstream comet science but yes, not as much as I should. Lack of time unfortunately.

I started posting on this thread again because of the re-visit to comet Temple 1 on Valentines day. I've just seen the pictures of the man-made crater and I'm rather surprised by how small it is. I guess I was expecting something better after the huge flash in 2005.

NASA Releases Images of Man-Made Crater on Comet
Quote:
The Stardust-NExT mission met its goals, which included observing surface features that changed in areas previously seen during the 2005 Deep Impact mission; imaging new terrain; and viewing the crater generated when the 2005 mission propelled an impactor at the comet.

"This mission is 100 percent successful," said Joe Veverka, Stardust-NExT principal investigator of Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y. "We saw a lot of new things that we didn't expect, and we'll be working hard to figure out what Tempel 1 is trying to tell us."

Several of the images provide tantalizing clues to the result of the Deep Impact mission's collision with Tempel 1.

"We see a crater with a small mound in the center, and it appears that some of the ejecta went up and came right back down," said Pete Schultz of Brown University, Providence, R.I. "This tells us this cometary nucleus is fragile and weak based on how subdued the crater is we see today."
Tempel 1 Impact Site
This pair of images shows the before-and-after comparison of the part of comet Tempel 1 that was hit by the impactor from NASA's Deep Impact spacecraft. Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Maryland/Cornell
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Old 28th February 2011, 06:02 AM   #1127
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Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post

Haig, you posted a link to that "electriceverything.com" (ETA: actually "everythingselectric.com") URL in post #924:
Everybody here can confirm the bogosity of your denial by clicking on the link in that quotation. (ETA: by clicking on the red link next to Haig.)
Maybe you should post less, and think about what you post just a bit more.
Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Funny Haig!
Your post:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=924
Your link:
http://www.everythingselectric.com/f...84&topic=329.0

Do you really want to deny the second part?

Are you for real Haig?
Sincere Apologies to Tim Thompson, he was totally right. My thanks to W.D. Clinger and DD for pointing out my mistake.

Quote:
Maybe you should post less, and think about what you post just a bit more.
Is definitely appropriate in my case

No defence, but i didn't realise Tim was referring to a post of mine from quite a few pages back and one that I had just copied and pasted here without looking at or reading any of the source.
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Old 28th February 2011, 06:12 AM   #1128
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The Dragon's Den Feb 28, 2011
Saturn's electrically charged atmosphere has erupted in spectacular fashion.
Quote:
Sungrazers are comets that pass close to the Sun in their highly elliptical orbits. They tend to reaffirm the Electric Universe opinion about comets: If comets are the result of electrical events that took place early in the life of the Solar System, then their several "anomalous" behaviors can be easily explained.

Some comet anomalies include Hale-Bopp's ion tail and coma when it was far past Jupiter's orbit, the catastrophic explosion of Comet Linear when it was over 100 million kilometers from the Sun, the desert-like, cratered appearance of Comets Borrelly and Tempel 1 (contrary to the "dirty snowball hypothesis), and Shoemaker-Levy 9's broken pieces refusing to expel any water vapor.

The Sun's radial e-field is a dynamic structure, changing in strength and size depending on the corresponding strength of electric currents that flow into it. For that reason, it is in a state of constant flux, requiring just a small trigger for it to explosively discharge with solar flares or coronal mass ejections (CME).

Comet NEAT initiated a CME eruption that appeared to impact the comet. Several other sungrazers have been associated with violent flares. When comet 96P/Machholz circled the Sun its intense charge differential caused a gigantic CME to blast out from the Sun for millions of kilometers.The electrical connection between comets and the Sun seems certain. If that is the case, then the electrical connection between the Sun and its entire family of planets and moons is certain. Changes in electrical activity affect the environments of every member in that family.

Saturn could be thought of as a solar system in its own right, with a family of 31 moons. It possesses a Langmuir charge sheath (plasmasphere) that isolates it from the Sun's own charge sheath that, in turn, is isolating it from the charged interstellar medium.

Many things about Saturn have changed in the 31 years since the two Voyager spacecraft passed by the giant gas planet. Saturn's magnetosphere grew by more than a million kilometers and then contracted, only to begin expanding again. The spokes in Saturn's B ring disappeared and then reappeared. The equatorial thunderstorm (known as the Dragon Storm) that raged continuously broke up, moved toward the poles, and then erupted again.

The most likely explanation for the storms on Saturn is that they are equivalent to sunspots. As the Sun changes its behavior over the course of a 22 year cycle, the electrical output that connects it with its family of planets varies.
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/00current.htm

I have read and stand by the source of this but it is time for me to post less and do other things in my limited free time for sure.

Spring at last
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Old 28th February 2011, 09:15 AM   #1129
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
The Dragon's Den Feb 28, 2011
Saturn's electrically charged atmosphere has erupted in spectacular fashion.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/00current.htm

I have read and stand by the source of this but it is time for me to post less and do other things in my limited free time for sure.

Spring at last
Post and run, so what evidence does that blog present?

Besides none?
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Old 28th February 2011, 09:16 AM   #1130
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This link will be here tomorrow it is the archive:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/20.../110228den.htm
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Old 28th February 2011, 09:46 AM   #1131
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[quote=Haig;6925000]The Dragon's Den Feb 28, 2011
Saturn's electrically charged atmosphere has erupted in spectacular fashion.[/quote]
I see that Thunderbolts not only lies to its readers (The lies, failures and successes of Thunderbolts Deep Impact predictions. ), it spouts gibberish as well.
That web page is citing a thunderstorm on Saturn as evidence for CME on the Sun being initiated by sun-grazer comets.
The author is so ignorant that they do not know the difference between a star and a gas giant !

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Old 2nd March 2011, 03:00 AM   #1132
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
The author is so ignorant that they do not know the difference between a star and a gas giant !
There is not as big a difference as you might think, even for mainstream beliefs:
Brown dwarfs are sub-stellar objects
Quote:
Brown dwarfs occupy the mass range between that of large gas giant planets and the lowest-mass stars; this upper limit is between 75[1] and 80 Jupiter masses (MJ). Currently there is some debate as to what criterion to use to define the separation between a brown dwarf and a giant planet at very low brown dwarf masses (~13 MJ ), and whether brown dwarfs are required to have experienced fusion at some point in their history

For EU/PC theory it's an even more straightforward thing:
Saturn
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Old 2nd March 2011, 03:50 AM   #1133
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Except it doesn't work that way.

Brown dwarfs cool over time since there's not enough mass to sustain any stable fusion. This is why they usually show up in the infrared spectrum.

As to Saturn, astronomers are still uncertain as to exactly how the south pole of Saturn is warmer than the surrounding atmosphere. I'm not knowledgeable enough to properly guess at it, but it could be a number of factors from a sustained breakdown of the polar vortex. Or there could be a mechanism that draws heat from the interior to the vortex via adiabatic compression. Or it could be due to prolonged exposure to the sun, since the south pole has been exposed to the sun for 18 years. However, there is nothing about the polar vortex that screams "the model is incorrect!!!!" To say that we don't know what causes it is correct, but that doesn't mean the entire model is defunct. It's absurd.

There is nothing in Thunderbolts that explains it without breaking the laws of physics. See my last post as to how the Electric Sun fails.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 07:22 AM   #1134
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
There is not as big a difference as you might think, even for mainstream beliefs:
Brown dwarfs are sub-stellar objects
That just points out the idiocy on that web page - they are not comparing brown dwarfs and gas giants. They are comparing the Sun and Saturn (or any star and any gas giant) which is ignorant in the extreme.

Originally Posted by Haig;6931864
For EU/PC theory it's an even more straightforward thing:
[URL="http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/00subjectx.htm#Planets_Saturn"
Saturn[/url]
So the EU/PC theory is a theory from a web site that lies to its readers and you believe it? Sorry that just makes you gullible (I have a certain bridge in New York that you may be interested in )
The lies, failures and successes of Thunderbolts Deep Impact predictions.
They even lie about Saturn!
Anoher lie from Thornhill on the Thunderbolts web site (about Saturn's poles)

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Old 7th March 2011, 03:07 AM   #1135
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Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

An electric comet in action?

Page 1 and Page5

Could be very interesting
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Old 7th March 2011, 03:54 AM   #1136
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

An electric comet in action?

Page 1 and Page5

Could be very interesting
Oh what a short memory you have:
Firstly you are citing a web site that lies to its reader again
The lies, failures and successes of Thunderbolts Deep Impact predictions.
They even lie about Saturn!
Anoher lie from Thornhill on the Thunderbolts web site (about Saturn's poles)
Secondly electric comets do not exist
  1. Comets have meaured densities that are much less than that of rocks (asteroids).
  2. Comets may not have the composition of asteriods
  3. Deep Impact confirmed that comet nuclei are made of dust and ice not rock. There were a couple of surprises in that the dust was talcum powder rather than sand and the amount of ice was smaller than expected.
    "Analysis of data from the Swift X-ray telescope showed that the comet continued outgassing from the impact for 13 days, with a peak five days after impact. A total of 5 million kilograms (11 million pounds) of water[35] and between 10 and 25 million kilograms (22 and 55 million pounds) of dust were lost from the impact."WP
    Thus the water content of Comet Tempel 1 is 20% to 50%.
  4. Cometary dust as collected by the Stardust mission contain forms of carbon that are not in meteorites.
  5. Electric Comets I
  6. Electric Comets II: References
  7. Electric Comets III: No EU X-rays (actually no EU X-ray bursts).
  8. The EC assumption of EDM machining does not produce jets.
  9. EDM in the EC idea needs a dielectric material which does not exist!
  10. No EDM sparks are seen in images of comet nuclei.
  11. No EDM hot spots are seen in thermal maps of Tempel 1.
  12. Voltage potentials are many orders of magnitude too small.
  13. EC predicts that 100,000's of asteroids should be comets
  14. Water, water everywhere (except in the EC idea)
And a question for you, Haig: Do you really think that this comet wiill turn off at perihelion when other comets have not? EC comets switch off at perihelion
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Old 7th March 2011, 05:24 AM   #1137
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Oh what a short memory you ....snip the usual RC made up stuff on electric comets rather than what is actually claimed by EU/PC theory .... have Water, water everywhere (except in the EC idea)

And a question for you, Haig: Do you really think that this comet wiill turn off at perihelion when other comets have not? EC comets switch off at perihelion
I don't see where I or any electric comet proponent have said this comet wiill turn off at perihelion - can you give a source for that claim? I just had a short time to skim thro' the link you gave and found nothing.

The "predictions pending" on comets are HERE on Thunderbolts and that claim isn't one of them

As I understand it, that's not part of EU/PC thinking on comets at all! They say, the comets display comas and tails as long as they are under electrical stress as a charged body in the electric field of the Sun until they reach dark mode balance when they move far enough away from it, like the planets have in their less stressful orbits.

Did you know Venus has a tail that almost reaches the Earth? but it's in dark mode now but the ancients have strange stories about Venus calling it "The bright torch of Heaven" but that's off topic and another story as you know
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Old 7th March 2011, 05:43 AM   #1138
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

An electric comet in action?

Page 1 and Page5

Could be very interesting
Uh sure, yeah, so lets see some comments on another forum, that is meaningful.

Considering all the unanswered questions regarding the incoherence of the EC.
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Old 7th March 2011, 05:47 AM   #1139
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
I don't see where I or any electric comet proponent have said this comet wiill turn off at perihelion - can you give a source for that claim? I just had a short time to skim thro' the link you gave and found nothing.

The "predictions pending" on comets are HERE on Thunderbolts and that claim isn't one of them

As I understand it, that's not part of EU/PC thinking on comets at all! They say, the comets display comas and tails as long as they are under electrical stress as a charged body in the electric field of the Sun until they reach dark mode balance when they move far enough away from it, like the planets have in their less stressful orbits.
Haig, there is no dark mode, thar is just silly, but please make up some more bizzare stuff.

One of the many problems that YOU have NOT addressed in this thread.

Why do the comas on comets continue to grow as they leave the solar system?

You do know that Hyakutale was much more visible and its coma was much much larger as it was leaving the sun?

Quote:

Did you know Venus has a tail that almost reaches the Earth? but it's in dark mode now but the ancients have strange stories about Venus calling it "The bright torch of Heaven" but that's off topic and another story as you know


This is more stupid, you do know that Venus is the brightest object in magnitude of the planets, frequently day time visible?

And that the 'tail' you reference as a coma is not, you were called out on this and now you are just spamming the thread with the same old junk.
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Old 7th March 2011, 05:56 AM   #1140
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Originally Posted by =tusenfem View Post
No, the interaction of Venus with the solar wind magnetotail is more comet like than Earth like, because Venus does not have a internal magnetic field. The solar wind gets "hung up" in the ionosphere of Venus and thus a so called induced magnetosphere is created.

No, Venus's tail was NEVER in the visible range, as there is basically nothing there to reflect light, like in a cometary tail. Measurements by Venus Express have shown that basically hydrogen and oxygen is escaping along Venus's tail.

You could just as easily say than that the Earth's tail of Jupiter's tail should be visible. The idea is preposterous.

Oh whoops, here is the comment of a real scientist who works in the field.

And maybe while you are spamming teh forum with trash you can answer this post to you from back in November?
Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
Okay, Haig, the please work it out how the EDM works on a comet, how much the charging needs to be, how much water is produced by this EDM to create the observed water (also a EC prediction) and if the surface of the comet is negatively charged (yes it will be charged, indeed, this is even taken into account in the Rosetta lander Philae). Never anything worked out comes from thunderbloats, it's always pretty pictures, never anything concrete.

Maybe you should read an excellent introductory book on Comets: K. S. Krishna Swamy, Physics of Comets, 3rd edition, 2010, then maybe you will really know what the mainstream model is, instead of getting this information of delusional thunderdolts websites and michael suede blogs.

X-rays are easily explained in comets (see the excellent Tim Thompson post)
Filamentary tails: why would mainstream not expect that?
There is no link between comets and CMEs, the disconnection of a tail is very well explained by mainstream physics and is basically the same kind of process that his happening in every planetary magnetotail.
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Old 7th March 2011, 11:36 AM   #1141
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Oh whoops, here is the comment of a real scientist who works in the field.

And maybe while you are spamming teh forum with trash you can answer this post to you from back in November?
Thanks DD!
I have give up any hope getting real answers from Haig, he can only copy/paste whatever the dolts at thunderbolts are writing (and reading Neried's electric sun thread there is really to make you scream in agony because of nitwits trying to do "science").
Haig has no scientific knowledge, he cannot answer questions, he just searches on thunderdolts or whatever other fringe website (I guess he has missed the now dead journal of cosmology to quote from) to whatever may fit the question and then believes that as gospel.
Let's just put Haig on ignore and do something productive ...
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Old 7th March 2011, 12:08 PM   #1142
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
I don't see where I or any electric comet proponent have said this comet wiill turn off at perihelion - can you give a source for that claim?
They do not claim it. Read the link

Originally Posted by Haig View Post
As I understand it, that's not part of EU/PC thinking on comets at all! They say, the comets display comas and tails as long as they are under electrical stress as a charged body in the electric field of the Sun until they reach dark mode balance when they move far enough away from it, like the planets have in their less stressful orbits.
That is exacly that point of EC comets switch off at perihelion . This fantasy of "electrical stress" high enough to create water from rock is powered by the movement of the comet closer to (and from the Sun).
At perihelion the comet is not getting any closer to the Sun. It discharges. The tail vanishes.

Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Did you know Venus has a tail that almost reaches the Earth? but it's in dark mode now but the ancients have strange stories about Venus calling it "The bright torch of Heaven" but that's off topic and another story as you know
I will not be reading that link from a web site that lies to its readers:
The lies, failures and successes of Thunderbolts Deep Impact predictions.
Anoher lie from Thornhill on the Thunderbolts web site (about Saturn's poles)
Thanks for showing that Thiunderbolts are an even bigger bunch of cranks. They are not only liars but accordig to your post delusional. Ancients have "strange stories" abut everyhing!
Unfortunately it make you look even dumber for citing them .
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Old 20th July 2011, 04:43 PM   #1143
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More on those snowball thrown out by Hartley2
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0718001336.htm

Quote:
NEOWISE data show that the golf ball-sized chunks survive farther away from the comet than previously known, winding up in Hartley 2's trail of debris.

...

The observations also show that the comet is still actively ejecting carbon dioxide gas at a distance of 2.3 astronomical units from the sun,
What still outgassing, what a suprise!

(Actually it is the first detection)
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Old 23rd June 2013, 05:38 PM   #1144
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Well it's been awhile but the wait was worth it!

The Electric Comet

Love the second look at Temple 1 (Deep Impact)

Looks like the mainstream model of Comets has out-gassed the last of it's frozen secrets.

If you still believe in frozen dirty snowballs then there is a great movie out at the moment called "Epic" about garden fairies and magic!
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Old 23rd June 2013, 05:44 PM   #1145
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Well it's been awhile but the wait was worth it!

The Electric Comet

Love the second look at Temple 1 (Deep Impact)

Looks like the mainstream model of Comets has out-gassed the last of it's frozen secrets.

If you still believe in frozen dirty snowballs then there is a great movie out at the moment called "Epic" about garden fairies and magic!
Yup that sure is a coherent argument

"Watch this video"
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Old 23rd June 2013, 09:30 PM   #1146
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How about "Look at the pictures"

Look at the "Icy Cliffs"!
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Old 24th June 2013, 01:54 AM   #1147
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I have a transcript of that vid, it just has all the cherry picked info to make the EC look good. Suuuuure, the hydroxyl is created through plasma interaction with the surface, can thunderdolts or our belieber Sol88 please give a quantitative estimation of how much hydroxyl is produced at said surface with impacting solar wind.
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Old 24th June 2013, 05:16 AM   #1148
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
How about "Look at the pictures"

Look at the "Icy Cliffs"!
How about you explain why the Apollo bodies don.t have comas? And why there are only four objects in the asteroid belt that do?
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Old 24th June 2013, 03:34 PM   #1149
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Exclamation EC proponents have the delusion that argument by YouTube video is somehow scientific

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Well it's been awhile but the wait was worth it!

The Electric Comet
Well it is idiotic to think that a video from liars is worth any wait:
The lies, failures and successes of Thunderbolts Deep Impact predictions.

They even lie about Saturn!
Anoher lie from Thornhill on the Thunderbolts web site (about Saturn's poles)

It is even more idiotic to think that a YouTube video is scientific literature !

The mainstream model of Comets has out-gassed the all of the frozen secrets of comets by using science.

The Electric Comet theory is a delusion that is based on ignorant people looking at pictures and fantasizing about what they contain. These deluded people ignore all of the science the actually describe comets and all of the flaws in their fantasy:
Electric comets do not exist
  1. Comets have measured densities that are much less than that of rocks (asteroids).
  2. Comets may not have the composition of asteroids
  3. Deep Impact confirmed that comet nuclei are made of dust and ice not rock. There were a couple of surprises in that the dust was talcum powder rather than sand and the amount of ice was smaller than expected.
    "Analysis of data from the Swift X-ray telescope showed that the comet continued outgassing from the impact for 13 days, with a peak five days after impact. A total of 5 million kilograms (11 million pounds) of water[35] and between 10 and 25 million kilograms (22 and 55 million pounds) of dust were lost from the impact."WP
    Thus the water content of Comet Tempel 1 is 20% to 50%.
  4. Cometary dust as collected by the Stardust mission contain forms of carbon that are not in meteorites.
  5. Electric Comets I
  6. Electric Comets II: References
  7. Electric Comets III: No EU X-rays (actually no EU X-ray bursts).
  8. The EC assumption of EDM machining does not produce jets.
  9. EDM in the EC idea needs a dielectric material which does not exist!
  10. No EDM sparks are seen in images of comet nuclei.
  11. No EDM hot spots are seen in thermal maps of Tempel 1.
  12. Voltage potentials are many orders of magnitude too small.
  13. EC predicts that 100,000's of asteroids should be comets
  14. Water, water everywhere (except in the EC idea)
Thank you Sol88 for this new flaw:
EC proponents have the delusion that argument by YouTube video is somehow scientific !
And a question for you, Sol88: Do you really think that EC comets switch off at perihelion?
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Old 24th June 2013, 03:42 PM   #1150
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
How about "Look at the pictures"

Look at the "Icy Cliffs"!
How about "Look at the pictures and be deluded about what is in them"

You do not need to continue to demonstrate that you have been fooled by these ignorant people, Sol88.
Try looking at some science instead:
The Complex Evolution of Comet Nuclei: Evidence from Deep Impact and Stardust-NExT
Quote:
Spacecraft exploration of comets is revealing that far from being dirty snowballs that have changed little since their formation 4.6 billion years ago, many comet nuclei have undergone complex evolution. Observations of 9P/Tempel 1 made by Deep Impact (DI) in 2005 and Stardust-NExT (SN) in 2011 provide evidence for diverse geologic processes including the formation of layered structures, the episodic eruption of materials from the interior onto the surface, the formation of pit-like depressions and scarps by sublimation of volatiles, etc. A significant fraction of Tempel 1's activity appears to be associated with the back-wasting of scarps. Scarps on the comet display a variety of morphologies. Comparisons of DI and SN images reveal that the rate of scarp retreat varies from place to place. These observations point to differences in composition and/or texture of surface materials.
Geologic control of jet formation on Comet 103P/Hartley 2
Quote:
Visible light images of Hartley 2 show correlations between specific surface structures with both narrow-angle and fan-shaped dust jets; associations include pits, arcuate depressions, scarps, and rimless depressions.
If you still believe in electric comets then I have a certain bridge in New York that you can buy very cheaply !

Last edited by Reality Check; 24th June 2013 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 21st August 2013, 05:38 AM   #1151
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When this video first came out a mainstream scientist caused it to be taken down because he objected to the use of his (publicly funded) material, one picture of a galaxy.

THUNDERBOLTS PROJECT
Update
August 9, 2013

THUNDERBOLTS PROJECT ON YOUTUBE

THE ELECTRIC COMET
Quote:
Yes, the electric comet video is back up on YouTube for scientific review. We believe that this critical analysis of textbook theory can have a major impact on comet science. It can also reach well beyond the specialized study of comets to provoke a reconsideration of the Sun and its electrified environment. We live in an Electric Universe, and the enigmatic behavior of comets provides unique insights into the role of charged particles in space.
Quote:
We ask for your help in inviting scientists and other centers of influence to consider the factual content in this film. For the next 60-90 days we will consider all critical suggestions prior to final editing, and we'll be especially diligent in addressing any statements of fact that a knowledgeable viewer may call into question. Our conviction is that essential facts, now confirmed by leading investigators, will not allow the institutions of science to hold onto theories that, for too long, have been proclaimed as established science.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34wtt2EUToo
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Old 21st August 2013, 06:03 AM   #1152
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
When this video first came out a mainstream scientist caused it to be taken down because he objected to the use of his (publicly funded) material, one picture of a galaxy.

THUNDERBOLTS PROJECT
Update
August 9, 2013

THUNDERBOLTS PROJECT ON YOUTUBE

THE ELECTRIC COMET



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34wtt2EUToo
What a bunch of BS.
Scientific review on Youtube.
ROFLOL

Last edited by gambling_cruiser; 21st August 2013 at 06:05 AM. Reason: expansion
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Old 21st August 2013, 03:58 PM   #1153
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
When this video first came out a mainstream scientist caused it to be taken down because he objected to the use of his (publicly funded) material, one picture of a galaxy.
...
Wow Haig:They ask for comments so I will add the scientific points in Electric comets do not exist and see what happens.
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Old 21st August 2013, 04:03 PM   #1154
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Wow Haig:
They ask for comments so I will add the scientific points in Electric comets do not exist and see what happens.
Sounds interesting.

Please let us know what happens.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 05:00 AM   #1155
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
When this video first came out a mainstream scientist caused it to be taken down because he objected to the use of his (publicly funded) material, one picture of a galaxy.

THUNDERBOLTS PROJECT
Update
August 9, 2013

THUNDERBOLTS PROJECT ON YOUTUBE

THE ELECTRIC COMET



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34wtt2EUToo
So why don't the Apollo objects have comas Haig?
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Old 22nd August 2013, 03:24 PM   #1156
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Exclamation EC predicts that 100,000's of asteroids should be comets

23 August 2013 - updated the numbers.
EC universe: Rocky bodies that have an orbit with an eccentricity above a minimum value will be comets.
There may be other factors involved but since there is no actual EC model there is no list available.

There are observed main-belt comets with a minimum eccentricity of 0.1644 (133P/Elst-Pizarro). So the EC minimim must be this (or lower!).

Real universe: There are rocky bodies that have an orbit with an eccentricity above a minimum value that are not comets.
In fact there are asteroids in orbits that are get close to cometary orbits, e.g. 2005 VX3 with an eccentricity of 0.9955142)

The JPL Small-Body Database Browser has a search engine. This shows that there are 234,719 cataloged asteroids with an eccentricity > 0.17.

The EC excuse (according to Sol88) is that low solar activity is the reason that these 234,719 cataloged asteroids are not comets. What Sol88 has not realized is that each asteroid is observed a number of times over a period of days to years. These 234,719 cataloged asteroids were not clse to the the Sun at the same instant of time. These asteroids were observed during a range of solar activity. That range included times that comets were visible.

So how many of these should be comets?

EC has no actual physical model and so never gives numbers so we do not expect help there.

Conclusion: EC currently predicts that 100% of the 234,719 asteroids should be comets.
We could be generous and assume that average solar activity is needed and so there are 86,791 asteroids that should be comets according to the EC idea. But that can wait until an EC proponent comes up with actual observations related to EC !
Good examples of the asteriods that should be comets according to the EC idea are many of the named asteroids:
  • Juno (e=0.2553, observed over a span of 67,610 days).
  • Pallas (e=0.2309, observed over a span of 64,291 days)
  • Astraea (e=0.1917, observed over a span of 59,759 days)
  • ...More than 46 other named asteroids observed 1000's of times over decades.
  • Vera (e=0.1939, observed over a span of 45,191 days)
This analysis is in fact being generous to the EC idea. A stricter analysis would be to look at the orbital parameters of all comets (not just main-belt comets). This shows that the comet 158P/Kowal-LINEAR has an eccentricity of 0.0279 and a perihelion distance of 4.594 AU.

There are 605,650 asteroids with eccentricities greater than the minimum observed eccentricity of comets (0.0279). These should be EC comets.

Another EC excuse (according to solrey), is that composition plays a part determning whether "discharges" happen. He completely forgets about calculating the energy of these discharges as usual with EC proponents.
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Old 23rd August 2013, 12:55 AM   #1157
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
So why don't the Apollo objects have comas Haig?
Short answer - don't know. My guess would be, from reading the electric comet theory, is that the charge difference is insufficient.

Why not ask that question on the youtube comments for the video?

Over 63,000 viewings (so far) and lots of useful comments, even Tim Thompson has taken part.

There is even something for you Reality Check ... see the reply in the last para below ... why not ask your good questions there too? The Thunderbolts team have good answers for you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34wtt2EUToo
Quote:
All Comments (336)
Infinion .
Infinion . 6 hours ago
The papers admit they do not understand the “impact” flash using grammar elements like“?”, words like “likely, too, probably” and words placed in quotes to reconcile possible theories. However, Tim claimed that the brightness is purely reflected sunlight and nothing more. Ironically, the 3rd paper refutes this in their intensity analysis and the first says the brightness is consistent with reflected sunlight only after 0.42 seconds
Tim’s hasty conclusions make his thoughts & claims questionable
Reply · Vote Up Vote Down in reply to Infinion . (Show the comment)

Infinion .
Infinion . 6 hours ago
Upon googling Ian's numbers in a now deleted comment, it appears he paraphrased Tim Thompson at the URL:
goo(DOT)gl/01PT1f
Tim's a known pseudoskeptic of Donald Scott's Electric Sun hypothesis from 2001.
All three cited papers referenced times that were relative to the time after the first flash image, assumed to take place at or after impact. Their single justification being that the flash duration was comparable to their lab experiments.
There's no cited impact time for the impactor probe.
Reply · Vote Up Vote Down

ThunderboltsProject
ThunderboltsProject 6 hours ago
Of course the differences you refer to would be expected, given the exposure of cometary surfaces to electrochemical processing through extended electric discharge. The electrical blasting of meteorites from Mars would be a quite different matter, as would the explosive excavation and fusing of asteroidal material. As for Comet Stardust chemistry, would you really want comet scientists to ignore the potential of electrochemistry to produce the anomalous and "complicated mix of compounds"?
Reply · Vote Up Vote Down in reply to Ian Fisk (Show the comment)

Ian Fisk
Ian Fisk 9 hours ago
And you missed the obvious physical fact - the measured density of comet nuclei is ~0.6 g/cc, the measured density of asteroids is ~3.0 g/cc thus comets cannot be asteroids.
Comets have nothing to do with Phobos or any other rocky moon.
The Stardust mission showed that comets are made of material that is inconstant with planetary materials: "The presence of excesses of heavier isotopes - ... - is a strong indication that some of the comet dust was around before the Sun formed, ..."
Reply · Vote Up Vote Down in reply to ThunderboltsProject (Show the comment)

ThunderboltsProject
ThunderboltsProject 6 hours ago
Ian, please honor our request that people not attempt to take over this comment section by dumping voluminous commentary onto the site. The measurements of comet "density" come from measurement of "mass," the gravitational effect on a passing craft. In an active comet the figure will be way off. That's how comet scientists came to think of these bodies as icy fluff, which they are not. Our earlier Phobos comment was unrelated to this issue as you'll see if you'll look.

Last edited by Haig; 23rd August 2013 at 01:12 AM. Reason: Adding link
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Old 23rd August 2013, 01:06 AM   #1158
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Short answer - don't know. My guess would be, from reading the electric comet theory, is that the charge difference is insufficient.
(my bold)
You mean there is an electric comet theory?
Could you please point us to this published paper?
I have never ever seen anything quantitative, only handwaving, but hey I am willing to be surprised.
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Old 23rd August 2013, 01:20 AM   #1159
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
(my bold)
You mean there is an electric comet theory?
Could you please point us to this published paper?
I have never ever seen anything quantitative, only handwaving, but hey I am willing to be surprised.
You could start by reading here http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/eg-contents/

or you could watch and comment on their video, it's published there too :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34wtt2EUToo

Last edited by Haig; 23rd August 2013 at 01:21 AM.
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Old 23rd August 2013, 01:32 AM   #1160
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Quote:
A brief historical outline of the evolution of the electric comet theory may be helpful.

It is clear that at least by the second half of the 19th century, many scientists believed that comet tails were fundamentally electrical. For example, in 1872, Scientific American (July 27th, p. 57), informed its readers that "Professor Zollner of Leipsic" ascribes the "self-luminosity" of comets to "electrical excitement." According to the article, Zollner suggests that "the nuclei of comets, as masses, are subject to gravitation, while the vapors developed from them, which consist of very small particles, yield to the action of the free electricity of the sun...."

Also in the 19th century, the August 11, 1882 English Mechanic and World of Science, pp. 516-7, wrote of cometary tails: "...There seems to be a rapidly growing feeling amongst physicists that both the self-light of comets and the phenomena of their tails belong to the order of electrical phenomena."
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/el...universe21.htm
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