[Continuation] Brexit: Now What? 9 Below Zero - Page 12

Archie Gemmill Goal · 27th September 2019, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Nessie

OK, so if the court has the authority to adjudicate on proroguing, that means proroguing is a law, not a parliamentary procedure.

From the House of Commons Library website;

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...of-parliament/

"On 11 September, the High Court of England and Wales held that the legality of the prorogation was not justiciable in a court of law. That meant that the High Court had determined the question to be beyond the scope of judicial review. On the same day, the Court of Session in Scotland reached the opposite conclusion. It determined that the issue was justiciable."

That disagreement is why it went to the Supreme Court. The SC ruled in favour of the Scottish Court of Session;

"The Court held that the power to prorogue Parliament is a prerogative power: “a power recognised by the common law and exercised by the Crown… on advice” of the Prime Minister."

From the judgement itself;

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/do...2-judgment.pdf

"30.Before considering the question of justiciability, there are four points that we should make clear at the outset. First, the power to order the prorogation of Parliament is a prerogative power: that is to say, a power recognised by the common law and exercised by the Crown."

Prorogation is a common law.

Some of this seems.confused. the english and scottish cases were two seperate things. its not right to frame it as the SC deciding which one was right.

Arcade22 · 27th September 2019, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Nessie

Prorogation is a common law.

There shouldn't be any problem with recognizing that, since the Supreme court of the UK has been given the responsibility of being ultimate authority on British law (at least in this case, from what I understand other courts have remit over certain other matters), their conclusions determine what the British law is simply by definition.

This is not an endorsement of this or any other decision they have made or will make in the future. Again, if the prime minister objects to the law there is a very straight forward solution to the problem: enact legislation to permit proroging parliament for any reason whatsoever.

Archie Gemmill Goal · 27th September 2019, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

There shouldn't be any problem with recognizing that, since the Supreme court of the UK has been given the responsibility of being ultimate authority on British law (at least in this case, from what I understand other courts have remit over certain other matters), their conclusions determine what the British law is simply by definition.

This is not an endorsement of this or any other decision they have made or will make in the future. Again, if the prime minister objects to the law there is a very straight forward solution to the problem: enact legislation to permit proroging parliament for any reason whatsoever.

Given his 0% success rate enacting anything seems far from straightforward for this PM

dudalb · 27th September 2019, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by GlennB

Boris Johnson
PM referred to police watchdog over Jennifer Arcuri allegations

Almost funny.

This saga was missing one thing:Sexual Shennigans. Now Boris might have provided that...

SezMe · 27th September 2019, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by GlennB

Boris Johnson
PM referred to police watchdog over Jennifer Arcuri allegations

At the risk of a derail, what does this mean?

Quote:

An official from the Greater London Authority, the city’s devolved government...

Is there no longer a "London" city government?

Mojo · 27th September 2019, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by psionl0

I have. The only time the SC referred to an actual law was when they rejected the argument that this was parliamentary business as defined in the Bill of Rights.

Again, as anyone can see by reading the judgment, they cited numerous judicial precedents. In a common law system, judicial precedent is a source of law.

If you want to claim that the precedents cited are not “actual law”, you will need to cite legislation (or judicial precedent) that overturns them.

Mojo · 27th September 2019, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Is there no longer a "London" city government?

There is, it’s called the Greater London Authority.

Mojo · 27th September 2019, 11:55 PM

Tory MP says we should abolish the Supreme Court.

Quote:

"In the long term, I also believe that in the election manifesto we should have a commitment to abolish the Supreme Court and return to the status quo ante.

"After all its only in the last decade we had the law lords in Parliament resolving great disputes rather than a Supreme Court of people that are frankly accountable to no one."

timhau · 28th September 2019, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by Nessie

There was a party political broadcast the Brexit party this evening. Farage complained that May's deal was still giving the EU too much power over the UK and that Johnson is just pushing for something very similar. With time running out I waited with bated breath as to what Farage's plan was.... It turns out he wants a "clean break" so that the UK will get all its power and sovereignty back.

That's it. Farage is selling no deal as if it is a deal. But it is not. There will need to be negotiations to get trade deals, travel, residency, customs etc etc

He is a snake oil salesman.

I think what he actually wants is no Brexit. As long as he can campaign for Brexit without actually getting it, he has a nice little racket going.

Nessie · 28th September 2019, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by timhau

I think what he actually wants is no Brexit. As long as he can campaign for Brexit without actually getting it, he has a nice little racket going.

It is notable that rather than rejoin UKIP, he formed a new party. I suspect there was more money in it for him that way.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 28th September 2019, 02:43 AM

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1177863339902476288

Quote:

It’s official. Philip Hammond in today’s Times confirming that Boris Johnson is committed to a hard Brexit because the disaster capitalists who backed his campaign will make money millions.

The embedded article is paywalled, so I can't comment on what it actually says.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 28th September 2019, 04:20 AM

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1177905489159626752

Quote:

NEW: Jeremy Corbyn says emergency government to extend Brexit deadline "getting more likely every single day"

catsmate · 28th September 2019, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by SezMe

At the risk of a derail, what does this mean?

He's facing an investigation for corrupt activities while in public office.

Originally Posted by SezMe

Is there no longer a "London" city government?

Not a such. There is a Greater London Authority which is a local authority with a mayor and elected assembly that handles matters relating to London; principally transport, policing and emergency services, and economic planning and development but lacks real revenue raising powers.

jimbob · 28th September 2019, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

He's facing an investigation for corrupt activities while in public office.

Not a such. There is a Greater London Authority which is a local authority with a mayor and elected assembly that handles matters relating to London; principally transport, policing and emergency services, and economic planning and development but lacks real revenue raising powers.

Isn't there also the City of London, for the Square Mile?

Arcade22 · 28th September 2019, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

Tory MP says we should abolish the Supreme Court.

Quote:

"After all its only in the last decade we had the law lords in Parliament resolving great disputes rather than a Supreme Court of people that are frankly accountable to no one."

Of course it's only proper for judges to be held to account for frustrating the elective dictatorship of the day. If they dare to make a perfectly reasonable legal decision that is unpopular with a part of the legislature then the legislature should be able to unseat them immediately and vacate their judgement.

It's the job of the judiciary to interpret laws in such a way that it's pleasing to elected politicians, instead of the elected politicians making sure that the laws can only reasonably be interpreted in the way they want.

Mojo · 28th September 2019, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

Of course it's only proper for judges to be held to account for frustrating the elective dictatorship of the day. If they dare to make a perfectly reasonable legal decision that is unpopular with a part of the legislature then the legislature should be able to unseat them immediately and vacate their judgement.

It's the job of the judiciary to interpret laws in such a way that it's pleasing to elected politicians, instead of the elected politicians making sure that the laws can only reasonably be interpreted in the way they want.

The thing is that under “the status quo ante” the Appellate Committee was really no more accountable to Parliament than the Supreme Court judges are. The basic principle of judicial independence has been established for several hundred years.

ETA: There’s certainly a provision in the legislation setting up the SC allowing for removal of a judge by Parliament.

catsmate · 28th September 2019, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by jimbob

Isn't there also the City of London, for the Square Mile?

The GLA incorporates the old City as well as Greater London (the 32 boroughs). All 33 districts (in the local government sense) have a lower level of local government, either by Borough Council or the City's unique arrangements.

It's complicated. And I haven't even got down to wards or the Temple liberties yet.....

Vixen · 28th September 2019, 07:36 AM

What did peeps think of Geoffrey Cox' theatrics on the return of parliament t'other day? He has a great Shakespearean voice(could always get a job introducing the X-Factor) but what caught the news headline here in Finland was...Barry Sheerman (sp_?) spitting with rage in reply. Cox only got a short clip as a follow up to show viewers what Barry was so angry about.

Cox is a better orator than BoJo, with his all too predictable punching the air, silly quips and three-words per breath sentences.

Mojo · 28th September 2019, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

What did peeps think of Geoffrey Cox' theatrics on the return of parliament t'other day? He has a great Shakespearean voice(could always get a job introducing the X-Factor) but what caught the news headline here in Finland was...Barry Sheerman (sp_?) spitting with rage in reply. Cox only got a short clip as a follow up to show viewers what Barry was so angry about.

Cox is a better orator than BoJo, with his all too predictable punching the air, silly quips and three-words per breath sentences.

Here’s a report of the proceedings: Incredible Sulk's anger is compounded by ranting of Geoffrey Cox.

ThatGuy11200 · 28th September 2019, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by jimbob

Isn't there also the City of London, for the Square Mile?

The City of London Corporation governs the Square Mile, which was the extent of the city through the Roman, Saxon and the Medieval periods. They are headed by the Lord Mayor of London, which many people confuse for the Mayor of London. They've been around for about a thousand years and their rights and privileges are guaranteed by Magna Carta, which is still part of English law.

commandlinegamer · 28th September 2019, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1177863339902476288

The embedded article is paywalled, so I can't comment on what it actually says.

I've read this numerous times; that billions will be made by shorting the pound, but I was under the impression that this is what hedge funds (if they are involved) do: the clue's in the name. Would be helpful if somebody with better knowledge could chime in.

Captain_Swoop · 28th September 2019, 08:38 AM

The Cabinet Office confirms that Matthew Coats, the director-general for EU Exit Implementation and head of the Border Delivery Group, (a body that co-ordinates the work of all government departments on planning for the Dover-Calais strait) is to leave his job.

Darat · 28th September 2019, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

The Cabinet Office confirms that Matthew Coats, the director-general for EU Exit Implementation and head of the Border Delivery Group, (a body that co-ordinates the work of all government departments on planning for the Dover-Calais strait) is to leave his job.

Well it could hardly have been a permanent job, and one has to assume that he's done all the preparations so what else could he do?

GlennB · 28th September 2019, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by commandlinegamer

I've read this numerous times; that billions will be made by shorting the pound, but I was under the impression that this is what hedge funds (if they are involved) do: the clue's in the name. Would be helpful if somebody with better knowledge could chime in.

No 'knowledge' here, but nothing obliged them to short the pound rather than the Euro, and Johnson does seem utterly frantic to crash out on Oct 31st. He's close to delirious about it, afaics.

Mongrel · 28th September 2019, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by ThatGuy11200

The City of London Corporation governs the Square Mile, which was the extent of the city through the Roman, Saxon and the Medieval periods. They are headed by the Lord Mayor of London, which many people confuse for the Mayor of London. They've been around for about a thousand years and their rights and privileges are guaranteed by Magna Carta, which is still part of English law.

CGP Grey has a couple of videos explaining London that break it down pretty well.
First;

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Second;

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Archie Gemmill Goal · 28th September 2019, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by commandlinegamer

I've read this numerous times; that billions will be made by shorting the pound, but I was under the impression that this is what hedge funds (if they are involved) do: the clue's in the name. Would be helpful if somebody with better knowledge could chime in.

Indeed, but its unusual to have politicians actively working in your favour to make it happen because they stand to benefit one way or another personally from it.

P.J. Denyer · 28th September 2019, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Nessie

It is notable that rather than rejoin UKIP, he formed a new party. I suspect there was more money in it for him that way.

Can you really call it a party when it has no members? It's a Ltd company where people give it money for the pleasure of being called supporters but receive no benefit or rights in return and the leader is an unelected managing director with no means of removal.

P.J. Denyer · 28th September 2019, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

Tory MP says we should abolish the Supreme Court.

Both Nick Ferarri on LBC & Toby Young have called for the Supreme Court to be replaced with political appointees. I don't know muck about the former except that he's pro-Brexit, but my general rule is that if I don't know what the moral position is on any issue I look at what Toby "Daddy got me into Oxford" Young's take on the matter is and run in the opposite direction as fast as my little legs will carry me.

It's an approach that hasn't failed me yet.

P.J. Denyer · 28th September 2019, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by commandlinegamer

I've read this numerous times; that billions will be made by shorting the pound, but I was under the impression that this is what hedge funds (if they are involved) do: the clue's in the name. Would be helpful if somebody with better knowledge could chime in.

What makes the situation unique is that many of the hedge funds doing this have donated heavily to a Prime Minister who is defying Parliament to force through a course of action that the overwhelming majority of experts think will crash the pound & damage the economy for decades while benefiting no-one in the country except those hedge funds.

GlennB · 28th September 2019, 02:37 PM

Meanwhile ...

Boris Johnson is deliberately whipping up fears of riots and deaths so he can try to invoke emergency powers and avoid extending the UK’s EU membership beyond 31 October, Labour’s Brexit spokesman, Keir Starmer, claimed on Saturday.

Desperate stuff, if true.

Mojo · 28th September 2019, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by GlennB

Meanwhile ...

Boris Johnson is deliberately whipping up fears of riots and deaths so he can try to invoke emergency powers and avoid extending the UK’s EU membership beyond 31 October, Labour’s Brexit spokesman, Keir Starmer, claimed on Saturday.

Desperate stuff, if true.

I see he also wants to introduce “political screening” of the judiciary:

Quote:

On Saturday night, Johnson signalled that he would again challenge the judiciary by introducing US-style political screening of supreme court judges before they are appointed. Speaking to the Sunday Telegraph, the prime minister said: “If judges are to pronounce on political questions in this way, then there is at least an argument that there should be some form of accountability. The lessons of America are relevant.” The Law Society and the Bar Council both said last week that politically appointed judges would threaten the independence of the judiciary.

Captain_Swoop · 29th September 2019, 02:25 AM

From the people who brought you aircraft carriers without aircraft: 40 new hospitals when we’re short of 40000 nurses and 10000 doctors.

Darat · 29th September 2019, 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

From the people who brought you aircraft carriers without aircraft: 40 new hospitals when we’re short of 40000 nurses and 10000 doctors.

Naive person, you only need a handful of people wearing nurses uniforms and a few wearing scrubs for a photo opportunity, what else are these buildings called "hospitals" for?

Squeegee Beckenheim · 29th September 2019, 02:48 AM

Originally Posted by GlennB

Meanwhile ...

Boris Johnson is deliberately whipping up fears of riots and deaths so he can try to invoke emergency powers and avoid extending the UK’s EU membership beyond 31 October, Labour’s Brexit spokesman, Keir Starmer, claimed on Saturday.

Desperate stuff, if true.

This is something I've seen floating around for a few days. It's worth taking comfort in the fact that to use these powers someone is going to have to detail exactly what the emergency is, why it requires the suspension of law, etc. This will then be open to scrutiny and, if found not to be on the level, will be breaking the law and subject to a prison sentence of anything up to life.

Given that Johnson, for fear of perjury, couldn't find someone to sign a witness statement saying that the content of his memos was accurate it seems even less likely to me that he'll be able to find someone willing to go to prison for life for him for such a transparent ruse.

P.J. Denyer · 29th September 2019, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

From the people who brought you aircraft carriers without aircraft: 40 new hospitals when we’re short of 40000 nurses and 10000 doctors.

Build it and they will come......

They won't stay when they aren't paid but that's a problem for another Prime Minister.

Arcade22 · 29th September 2019, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

From the people who brought you aircraft carriers without aircraft: 40 new hospitals when we’re short of 40000 nurses and 10000 doctors.

With the amount of money they are going to get from the Brexit dividend they will be able to literally purchase thousands doctors from abroad like slaves.

Trebuchet · 29th September 2019, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Mojo

Tory MP says we should abolish the Supreme Court.

Quote:

"In the long term, I also believe that in the election manifesto we should have a commitment to abolish the Supreme Court and return to the status quo ante.

"After all its only in the last decade we had the law lords in Parliament resolving great disputes rather than a Supreme Court of people that are frankly accountable to no one."

Conservatives in the USA have been similarly whining about "unelected judges" for decades. Of course, now that the courts are being rigged in their favor, it'll be different.

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

From the people who brought you aircraft carriers without aircraft: 40 new hospitals when we’re short of 40000 nurses and 10000 doctors.

"Hospital" and "Hospitality" are derived from the same root. Obviously they are planning on building 40 new hotels. Maybe Trump will put his name on one.

jimbob · 29th September 2019, 02:06 PM

Interesting potential curveball solution

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/queen-so...inister-638320

The Don · 29th September 2019, 11:46 PM

Another £25bn found for road upgrades. That magic money tree is really doing well

Squeegee Beckenheim · 30th September 2019, 01:14 AM

https://twitter.com/Byline_Media/sta...56106882252802

Quote:

Big scoop from @Byline_Media - extraordinary amounts of money amounting to £8.3bn placed by Boris Johnson and Vote Leave backers on a no deal crashout on 31 October #DisasterCapitalism https://bylinetimes.com/2019/09/11/b...leave-backers/ …

Article and excerpt embedded in tweet.

I'm shocked. Never saw this coming at all.

27th September 2019, 02:25 PM	#441
Archie Gemmill Goal Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 7,780	Originally Posted by Nessie OK, so if the court has the authority to adjudicate on proroguing, that means proroguing is a law, not a parliamentary procedure. From the House of Commons Library website; https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...of-parliament/ "On 11 September, the High Court of England and Wales held that the legality of the prorogation was not justiciable in a court of law. That meant that the High Court had determined the question to be beyond the scope of judicial review. On the same day, the Court of Session in Scotland reached the opposite conclusion. It determined that the issue was justiciable." That disagreement is why it went to the Supreme Court. The SC ruled in favour of the Scottish Court of Session; "The Court held that the power to prorogue Parliament is a prerogative power: “a power recognised by the common law and exercised by the Crown… on advice” of the Prime Minister." From the judgement itself; https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/do...2-judgment.pdf "30.Before considering the question of justiciability, there are four points that we should make clear at the outset. First, the power to order the prorogation of Parliament is a prerogative power: that is to say, a power recognised by the common law and exercised by the Crown." Prorogation is a common law. Some of this seems.confused. the english and scottish cases were two seperate things. its not right to frame it as the SC deciding which one was right.
	__________________ "I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"

27th September 2019, 02:28 PM	#442
Arcade22 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 6,823	Originally Posted by Nessie Prorogation is a common law. There shouldn't be any problem with recognizing that, since the Supreme court of the UK has been given the responsibility of being ultimate authority on British law (at least in this case, from what I understand other courts have remit over certain other matters), their conclusions determine what the British law is simply by definition. This is not an endorsement of this or any other decision they have made or will make in the future. Again, if the prime minister objects to the law there is a very straight forward solution to the problem: enact legislation to permit proroging parliament for any reason whatsoever.
	__________________ We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann Last edited by Arcade22; 27th September 2019 at 02:29 PM.

27th September 2019, 04:17 PM	#443
Archie Gemmill Goal Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 7,780	Originally Posted by Arcade22 There shouldn't be any problem with recognizing that, since the Supreme court of the UK has been given the responsibility of being ultimate authority on British law (at least in this case, from what I understand other courts have remit over certain other matters), their conclusions determine what the British law is simply by definition. This is not an endorsement of this or any other decision they have made or will make in the future. Again, if the prime minister objects to the law there is a very straight forward solution to the problem: enact legislation to permit proroging parliament for any reason whatsoever. Given his 0% success rate enacting anything seems far from straightforward for this PM
	__________________ "I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"

27th September 2019, 04:49 PM	#444
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,527	Originally Posted by GlennB Boris Johnson PM referred to police watchdog over Jennifer Arcuri allegations Almost funny. This saga was missing one thing:Sexual Shennigans. Now Boris might have provided that...
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

27th September 2019, 08:22 PM	#446
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,888	Originally Posted by psionl0 I have. The only time the SC referred to an actual law was when they rejected the argument that this was parliamentary business as defined in the Bill of Rights. Again, as anyone can see by reading the judgment, they cited numerous judicial precedents. In a common law system, judicial precedent is a source of law. If you want to claim that the precedents cited are not “actual law”, you will need to cite legislation (or judicial precedent) that overturns them.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

27th September 2019, 07:00 PM	#445
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 25,119	Originally Posted by GlennB Boris Johnson PM referred to police watchdog over Jennifer Arcuri allegations At the risk of a derail, what does this mean? Quote: An official from the Greater London Authority, the city’s devolved government... Is there no longer a "London" city government?

27th September 2019, 08:26 PM	#447
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,888	Originally Posted by SezMe Is there no longer a "London" city government? There is, it’s called the Greater London Authority.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

27th September 2019, 11:55 PM	#448
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,888	Tory MP says we should abolish the Supreme Court. Quote: "In the long term, I also believe that in the election manifesto we should have a commitment to abolish the Supreme Court and return to the status quo ante. "After all its only in the last decade we had the law lords in Parliament resolving great disputes rather than a Supreme Court of people that are frankly accountable to no one."
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

28th September 2019, 01:16 AM	#449
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,512	Originally Posted by Nessie There was a party political broadcast the Brexit party this evening. Farage complained that May's deal was still giving the EU too much power over the UK and that Johnson is just pushing for something very similar. With time running out I waited with bated breath as to what Farage's plan was.... It turns out he wants a "clean break" so that the UK will get all its power and sovereignty back. That's it. Farage is selling no deal as if it is a deal. But it is not. There will need to be negotiations to get trade deals, travel, residency, customs etc etc He is a snake oil salesman. I think what he actually wants is no Brexit. As long as he can campaign for Brexit without actually getting it, he has a nice little racket going.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

28th September 2019, 01:39 AM	#450
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 13,114	Originally Posted by timhau I think what he actually wants is no Brexit. As long as he can campaign for Brexit without actually getting it, he has a nice little racket going. It is notable that rather than rejoin UKIP, he formed a new party. I suspect there was more money in it for him that way.
	__________________ Audiophile/biker/sceptic

28th September 2019, 02:43 AM	#451
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,398	https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1177863339902476288 Quote: It’s official. Philip Hammond in today’s Times confirming that Boris Johnson is committed to a hard Brexit because the disaster capitalists who backed his campaign will make money millions. The embedded article is paywalled, so I can't comment on what it actually says.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

28th September 2019, 04:20 AM	#452
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,398	https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1177905489159626752 Quote: NEW: Jeremy Corbyn says emergency government to extend Brexit deadline "getting more likely every single day"
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

28th September 2019, 04:38 AM	#453
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 24,300	Originally Posted by SezMe At the risk of a derail, what does this mean? He's facing an investigation for corrupt activities while in public office. Originally Posted by SezMe Is there no longer a "London" city government? Not a such. There is a Greater London Authority which is a local authority with a mayor and elected assembly that handles matters relating to London; principally transport, policing and emergency services, and economic planning and development but lacks real revenue raising powers.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

28th September 2019, 04:42 AM	#454
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 22,898	Originally Posted by catsmate He's facing an investigation for corrupt activities while in public office. Not a such. There is a Greater London Authority which is a local authority with a mayor and elected assembly that handles matters relating to London; principally transport, policing and emergency services, and economic planning and development but lacks real revenue raising powers. Isn't there also the City of London, for the Square Mile?
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending

28th September 2019, 05:59 AM	#455
Arcade22 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 6,823	Originally Posted by Mojo Tory MP says we should abolish the Supreme Court. Quote: "After all its only in the last decade we had the law lords in Parliament resolving great disputes rather than a Supreme Court of people that are frankly accountable to no one." Of course it's only proper for judges to be held to account for frustrating the elective dictatorship of the day. If they dare to make a perfectly reasonable legal decision that is unpopular with a part of the legislature then the legislature should be able to unseat them immediately and vacate their judgement. It's the job of the judiciary to interpret laws in such a way that it's pleasing to elected politicians, instead of the elected politicians making sure that the laws can only reasonably be interpreted in the way they want.
	__________________ We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann Last edited by Arcade22; 28th September 2019 at 06:02 AM.

28th September 2019, 06:28 AM	#456
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,888	Originally Posted by Arcade22 Of course it's only proper for judges to be held to account for frustrating the elective dictatorship of the day. If they dare to make a perfectly reasonable legal decision that is unpopular with a part of the legislature then the legislature should be able to unseat them immediately and vacate their judgement. It's the job of the judiciary to interpret laws in such a way that it's pleasing to elected politicians, instead of the elected politicians making sure that the laws can only reasonably be interpreted in the way they want. The thing is that under “the status quo ante” the Appellate Committee was really no more accountable to Parliament than the Supreme Court judges are. The basic principle of judicial independence has been established for several hundred years. ETA: There’s certainly a provision in the legislation setting up the SC allowing for removal of a judge by Parliament.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky Last edited by Mojo; 28th September 2019 at 06:49 AM.

28th September 2019, 06:51 AM	#457
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 24,300	Originally Posted by jimbob Isn't there also the City of London, for the Square Mile? The GLA incorporates the old City as well as Greater London (the 32 boroughs). All 33 districts (in the local government sense) have a lower level of local government, either by Borough Council or the City's unique arrangements. It's complicated. And I haven't even got down to wards or the Temple liberties yet.....
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

28th September 2019, 07:36 AM	#458
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 21,568	What did peeps think of Geoffrey Cox' theatrics on the return of parliament t'other day? He has a great Shakespearean voice(could always get a job introducing the X-Factor) but what caught the news headline here in Finland was...Barry Sheerman (sp_?) spitting with rage in reply. Cox only got a short clip as a follow up to show viewers what Barry was so angry about. Cox is a better orator than BoJo, with his all too predictable punching the air, silly quips and three-words per breath sentences.
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!

28th September 2019, 07:49 AM	#459
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,888	Originally Posted by Vixen What did peeps think of Geoffrey Cox' theatrics on the return of parliament t'other day? He has a great Shakespearean voice(could always get a job introducing the X-Factor) but what caught the news headline here in Finland was...Barry Sheerman (sp_?) spitting with rage in reply. Cox only got a short clip as a follow up to show viewers what Barry was so angry about. Cox is a better orator than BoJo, with his all too predictable punching the air, silly quips and three-words per breath sentences. Here’s a report of the proceedings: Incredible Sulk's anger is compounded by ranting of Geoffrey Cox.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

28th September 2019, 07:58 AM	#460
ThatGuy11200 Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: London Posts: 316	Originally Posted by jimbob Isn't there also the City of London, for the Square Mile? The City of London Corporation governs the Square Mile, which was the extent of the city through the Roman, Saxon and the Medieval periods. They are headed by the Lord Mayor of London, which many people confuse for the Mayor of London. They've been around for about a thousand years and their rights and privileges are guaranteed by Magna Carta, which is still part of English law.

28th September 2019, 07:58 AM	#461
commandlinegamer Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mazes of Menace Posts: 9,098	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1177863339902476288 The embedded article is paywalled, so I can't comment on what it actually says. I've read this numerous times; that billions will be made by shorting the pound, but I was under the impression that this is what hedge funds (if they are involved) do: the clue's in the name. Would be helpful if somebody with better knowledge could chime in.
	__________________ He bade me take any rug in the house.

28th September 2019, 08:38 AM	#462
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,706	The Cabinet Office confirms that Matthew Coats, the director-general for EU Exit Implementation and head of the Border Delivery Group, (a body that co-ordinates the work of all government departments on planning for the Dover-Calais strait) is to leave his job.

28th September 2019, 08:51 AM	#463
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,797	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop The Cabinet Office confirms that Matthew Coats, the director-general for EU Exit Implementation and head of the Border Delivery Group, (a body that co-ordinates the work of all government departments on planning for the Dover-Calais strait) is to leave his job. Well it could hardly have been a permanent job, and one has to assume that he's done all the preparations so what else could he do?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

28th September 2019, 09:06 AM	#464
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Usk, Wales Posts: 26,532	Originally Posted by commandlinegamer I've read this numerous times; that billions will be made by shorting the pound, but I was under the impression that this is what hedge funds (if they are involved) do: the clue's in the name. Would be helpful if somebody with better knowledge could chime in. No 'knowledge' here, but nothing obliged them to short the pound rather than the Euro, and Johnson does seem utterly frantic to crash out on Oct 31st. He's close to delirious about it, afaics.
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

28th September 2019, 10:44 AM	#466
Archie Gemmill Goal Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 7,780	Originally Posted by commandlinegamer I've read this numerous times; that billions will be made by shorting the pound, but I was under the impression that this is what hedge funds (if they are involved) do: the clue's in the name. Would be helpful if somebody with better knowledge could chime in. Indeed, but its unusual to have politicians actively working in your favour to make it happen because they stand to benefit one way or another personally from it.
	__________________ "I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"

28th September 2019, 11:16 AM	#467
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,996	Originally Posted by Nessie It is notable that rather than rejoin UKIP, he formed a new party. I suspect there was more money in it for him that way. Can you really call it a party when it has no members? It's a Ltd company where people give it money for the pleasure of being called supporters but receive no benefit or rights in return and the leader is an unelected managing director with no means of removal.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,996	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

28th September 2019, 11:21 AM	#468
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,996	Originally Posted by Mojo Tory MP says we should abolish the Supreme Court. Both Nick Ferarri on LBC & Toby Young have called for the Supreme Court to be replaced with political appointees. I don't know muck about the former except that he's pro-Brexit, but my general rule is that if I don't know what the moral position is on any issue I look at what Toby "Daddy got me into Oxford" Young's take on the matter is and run in the opposite direction as fast as my little legs will carry me. It's an approach that hasn't failed me yet.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,996	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

28th September 2019, 11:28 AM	#469
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,996	Originally Posted by commandlinegamer I've read this numerous times; that billions will be made by shorting the pound, but I was under the impression that this is what hedge funds (if they are involved) do: the clue's in the name. Would be helpful if somebody with better knowledge could chime in. What makes the situation unique is that many of the hedge funds doing this have donated heavily to a Prime Minister who is defying Parliament to force through a course of action that the overwhelming majority of experts think will crash the pound & damage the economy for decades while benefiting no-one in the country except those hedge funds.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,996	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

28th September 2019, 02:37 PM	#470
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Usk, Wales Posts: 26,532	Meanwhile ... Boris Johnson is deliberately whipping up fears of riots and deaths so he can try to invoke emergency powers and avoid extending the UK’s EU membership beyond 31 October, Labour’s Brexit spokesman, Keir Starmer, claimed on Saturday. Desperate stuff, if true.
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

28th September 2019, 11:58 PM	#471
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,888	Originally Posted by GlennB Meanwhile ... Boris Johnson is deliberately whipping up fears of riots and deaths so he can try to invoke emergency powers and avoid extending the UK’s EU membership beyond 31 October, Labour’s Brexit spokesman, Keir Starmer, claimed on Saturday. Desperate stuff, if true. I see he also wants to introduce “political screening” of the judiciary: Quote: On Saturday night, Johnson signalled that he would again challenge the judiciary by introducing US-style political screening of supreme court judges before they are appointed. Speaking to the Sunday Telegraph, the prime minister said: “If judges are to pronounce on political questions in this way, then there is at least an argument that there should be some form of accountability. The lessons of America are relevant.” The Law Society and the Bar Council both said last week that politically appointed judges would threaten the independence of the judiciary.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

29th September 2019, 02:25 AM	#472
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,706	From the people who brought you aircraft carriers without aircraft: 40 new hospitals when we’re short of 40000 nurses and 10000 doctors.

29th September 2019, 02:33 AM	#473
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,797	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop From the people who brought you aircraft carriers without aircraft: 40 new hospitals when we’re short of 40000 nurses and 10000 doctors. Naive person, you only need a handful of people wearing nurses uniforms and a few wearing scrubs for a photo opportunity, what else are these buildings called "hospitals" for?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

29th September 2019, 02:48 AM	#474
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,398	Originally Posted by GlennB Meanwhile ... Boris Johnson is deliberately whipping up fears of riots and deaths so he can try to invoke emergency powers and avoid extending the UK’s EU membership beyond 31 October, Labour’s Brexit spokesman, Keir Starmer, claimed on Saturday. Desperate stuff, if true. This is something I've seen floating around for a few days. It's worth taking comfort in the fact that to use these powers someone is going to have to detail exactly what the emergency is, why it requires the suspension of law, etc. This will then be open to scrutiny and, if found not to be on the level, will be breaking the law and subject to a prison sentence of anything up to life. Given that Johnson, for fear of perjury, couldn't find someone to sign a witness statement saying that the content of his memos was accurate it seems even less likely to me that he'll be able to find someone willing to go to prison for life for him for such a transparent ruse.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

29th September 2019, 03:25 AM	#475
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,996	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop From the people who brought you aircraft carriers without aircraft: 40 new hospitals when we’re short of 40000 nurses and 10000 doctors. Build it and they will come...... They won't stay when they aren't paid but that's a problem for another Prime Minister.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,996	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

29th September 2019, 07:38 AM	#476
Arcade22 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 6,823	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop From the people who brought you aircraft carriers without aircraft: 40 new hospitals when we’re short of 40000 nurses and 10000 doctors. With the amount of money they are going to get from the Brexit dividend they will be able to literally purchase thousands doctors from abroad like slaves.
	__________________ We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann Last edited by Arcade22; 29th September 2019 at 07:41 AM.