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Tags police issues , police misconduct charges

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Old 17th September 2019, 06:46 AM   #1241
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Originally Posted by Abooga View Post
The right of citizens to record police (or anyone else) in public places should be enshrined together with the most basic rights. Those policemen that try stop someone from recording should be immediately expelled and then paraded through the streets and pelted with rotten vegetables.
Come on the police officers who violate people constitutional rights almost never face any kind of punishment. That kind of crazy talk would have cops who threaten people with guns for no reason charged with brandishing. Stop being totally ridiculous cops are above the law and the constitution.
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Old 17th September 2019, 03:13 PM   #1242
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I had to double check that I was watching the right video as I honestly thought that was a squad of soldiers! Why on earth are the police dressed like they belong in the military?
Because that's been a thing in US policing for ten years or more. Aided and abetted by the Federal Government providing military vehicles and equipment to any police department that asks for it.
There's a video I saw linked from Popehat a couple of years ago of a police raid involving similarly dressed cops and two or three armored vehicles. The target was an elderly couple who hadn't cleaned up their messy yard.
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Old 18th September 2019, 04:48 AM   #1243
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I had to double check that I was watching the right video as I honestly thought that was a squad of soldiers! Why on earth are the police dressed like they belong in the military?
Don't you know? There's a war on police.

Mainly it's a combination of the 1033 program and civil asset forfeiture. The police department in question probably bought that gear with CAF money.

https://fee.org/articles/the-militar...brief-history/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/in...?noredirect=on
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Old 22nd September 2019, 11:27 PM   #1244
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A 6 and an 8 year old arrested at school

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...s-6-8-n1057441
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Old 22nd September 2019, 11:43 PM   #1245
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
A 6 and an 8 year old arrested at school

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...s-6-8-n1057441
Arresting a 6yo is disgusting and insane....but so is trying to dismiss kicking a classmate because of sleep apnea.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 12:39 AM   #1246
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
A 6 and an 8 year old arrested at school

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...s-6-8-n1057441
What the actual ****?! A six year old was taken to processing?! Charged with battery?!

Why is there police in a K-5 school? What society has the US become where people thinks this is necessary and ok?
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Old 23rd September 2019, 12:42 AM   #1247
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Arresting a 6yo is disgusting and insane....but so is trying to dismiss kicking a classmate because of sleep apnea.
A six year old kicking a classmate is not "battery". It should be dealt with by parents in tandem with the teachers and ultimately school leadership if severe or repeated.
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Last edited by erlando; 23rd September 2019 at 12:44 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 23rd September 2019, 03:28 AM   #1248
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Arresting a 6yo is disgusting and insane....but so is trying to dismiss kicking a classmate because of sleep apnea.
Sorry there is no comparison, one is a guardian saying the kid was just a bit grumpy, a typical reaction of a guardian sticking up for their kid, the other is 6 year old being arrested!
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Old 23rd September 2019, 03:30 AM   #1249
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
A six year old kicking a classmate is not "battery". It should be dealt with by parents in tandem with the teachers and ultimately school leadership if severe or repeated.
If a teacher can't cope with a kid having a tantrum other than having the kid arrested they need to be removed from direct contact with kids.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 03:31 AM   #1250
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Aside from the consensus about the 6 year old, how do we feel about arresting an 8 year old?

Dave
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Old 23rd September 2019, 03:36 AM   #1251
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
What the actual ****?! A six year old was taken to processing?! Charged with battery?!



Why is there police in a K-5 school? What society has the US become where people thinks this is necessary and ok?
In another thread someone was describing security you have to go through to visit a high school, it read like someone trying to enter a high security prison!

I really hope this idea of armed police on the premises to deal with kids misbehaving, armed security at entry points, metal detectors, swipe doors, lock down protocols and so on are only mentioned because they are noteworthy because they are exceptional. In other words most schools in the USA your "security clearance " is going to the school office and signing in and perhaps being given a visitors badge.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 03:38 AM   #1252
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Aside from the consensus about the 6 year old, how do we feel about arresting an 8 year old?



Dave
I'm sure he or she needed to be arrested, probably seriously assaulted another kid I.e. pulled the pig tails of the girl in front of them.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 04:44 AM   #1253
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
If a teacher can't cope with a kid having a tantrum other than having the kid arrested they need to be removed from direct contact with kids.
It is a bunch of things, like schools getting police as protection from mass shooters, then the school deciding that rather than risking being sued for a teacher physically restraining a pupil better to have the cop do it. And here we are.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 04:46 AM   #1254
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Police harassing black kids waiting for the bus after school

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/20...g-at-bus-stop/

And remember it is funny because they were terrified of the police.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:59 AM   #1255
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Sorry there is no comparison, one is a guardian saying the kid was just a bit grumpy, a typical reaction of a guardian sticking up for their kid, the other is 6 year old being arrested!
Because obviously merely bringing up another issue implies there MUST be a comparison and judgment

Last edited by Shadowdweller; 23rd September 2019 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:12 AM   #1256
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Aside from the consensus about the 6 year old, how do we feel about arresting an 8 year old?

Dave
if a 6 or 8 year old kid brings a damn gun to school, the appropriate thing to do is to investigate the guardians and the gun owner (if not a guardian), not to arrest the kid.

School discipline is another case of putting police into roles that they are simply not equipped to handle, much like using them to respond to people with mental health issues. Toss in obvious racial bias, and you get asinine responses like arresting first graders for throwing a hissy fit.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 09:06 AM   #1257
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
School discipline is another case of putting police into roles that they are simply not equipped to handle, much like using them to respond to people with mental health issues. Toss in obvious racial bias, and you get asinine responses like arresting first graders for throwing a hissy fit.
Police should not be on the streets or given any sort of authoritative power in the first place if they're unequipped to deal with people who have mental issues. Since the alternative is inappropriate, senseless, unjustifiable violence.

Last edited by Shadowdweller; 23rd September 2019 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 09:09 AM   #1258
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Police should not be on the streets or given any sort of authoritative power if they're unequipped to deal with people who have mental issues. Since the alternative is inappropriate, senseless, unjustifiable violence.
Naa juries justify it all the time.

I mean what next cops not opening fire on non threatening dogs and killing kids by accident? This is america that is perfectly reasonable behavior for a cop the courts have said so.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:26 PM   #1259
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The SRO who arrested the 6- and 8-year-olds has been fired.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:33 PM   #1260
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The SRO who arrested the 6- and 8-year-olds has been fired.

I would have been satisfied with him simply being fired, since it is obvious he is not rational enough to perform his duties.

At least until I got to this part, which I hadn't seen in earlier reports I had read.
"Turner, who put one of the children in zip ties and took them to the Juvenile Assessment Center,"
What the actual ****!!!

He zip-tied (??? ) a six year old for having a temper tantrum?

If that isn't child abuse, it should be. Whether he's a cop or not.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 09:29 PM   #1261
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Quote:
If that isn't child abuse, it should be. Whether he's a cop or not.
That's one of the problems with our system.

Parents who spank kids to get them to behave are charged with child abuse. Teachers who can't control the same kids call the cops -and those cops abuse or even kill them with impunity.
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:04 AM   #1262
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The SRO who arrested the 6- and 8-year-olds has been fired.
It was two 6-year-olds. Not that that makes it any better.
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:07 AM   #1263
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I would have been satisfied with him simply being fired, since it is obvious he is not rational enough to perform his duties.

At least until I got to this part, which I hadn't seen in earlier reports I had read.
"Turner, who put one of the children in zip ties and took them to the Juvenile Assessment Center,"
What the actual ****!!!

He zip-tied (??? ) a six year old for having a temper tantrum?

If that isn't child abuse, it should be. Whether he's a cop or not.
******* ZIP-TIES? What the actual ******* **** is wrong with him? And then she went on to get fingerprinted? What kind of ****** up system does that?!

No wonder that the US has a prison population of 1%! You sure get the school-to-prison pipeline started early. ******* psychos.
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:14 AM   #1264
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
That's one of the problems with our system.

Parents who spank kids to get them to behave are charged with child abuse. Teachers who can't control the same kids call the cops -and those cops abuse or even kill them with impunity.
Spanking kids gets you charged with child abuse? Eek
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:24 AM   #1265
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Spanking kids gets you charged with child abuse? Eek
It does in civilized countries..
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:36 AM   #1266
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
It does in civilized countries..
To be fair I think we have to be careful about the words we use, "spanking" could cover a huge range of behaviour, I perhaps used my definition and Dragon Lady used hers.

I am sure no one thinks a parent or guardian should be allowed to hit a child, but a tap on the hand if the kid reaches for something they shouldn't I'd say would be OK, I wouldn't use spanking to describe the hit, but I would for the tap on the hand.
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:39 AM   #1267
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Spanking kids gets you charged with child abuse? Eek
It's illegal in Scotland and Wales, but parents and legal guardians are allowed to do it in England.
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Old 24th September 2019, 01:38 AM   #1268
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
To be fair I think we have to be careful about the words we use, "spanking" could cover a huge range of behaviour, I perhaps used my definition and Dragon Lady used hers.

I am sure no one thinks a parent or guardian should be allowed to hit a child, but a tap on the hand if the kid reaches for something they shouldn't I'd say would be OK, I wouldn't use spanking to describe the hit, but I would for the tap on the hand.
No, last time I saw, an outright majority of American adults endorsed spanking (as in, bare hand, switches, etc. on buttocks) children as discipline. It's ineffective according to most studies, but popular.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:25 AM   #1269
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
It's illegal in Scotland and Wales, but parents and legal guardians are allowed to do it in England.
Yeah, like I said I think it is different definitions for the same word that tripped me up. I'm sure no one thinks hitting a child is appropriate "discipline " or "punishment" and I don't ( these days) think of spanking to mean the good old Denis the Menace level of violence.

So my fault if Dragonlady wasn't meaning spanking as I tend to use it these days. If she did mean "hitting" then of course parents and guardians should be charged with assault and so on if they are hitting their child.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:26 AM   #1270
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
No, last time I saw, an outright majority of American adults endorsed spanking (as in, bare hand, switches, etc. on buttocks) children as discipline. It's ineffective according to most studies, but popular.
Ah in that case then I take back what I said above and I'll assume Dragonlady believes it is wrong for parents and guardians to be prosecuted for assaulting their child.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:12 AM   #1271
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The SRO who arrested the 6- and 8-year-olds has been fired.
Will that stick or will the union get him his job back in a few weeks?
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:13 AM   #1272
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
No, last time I saw, an outright majority of American adults endorsed spanking (as in, bare hand, switches, etc. on buttocks) children as discipline. It's ineffective according to most studies, but popular.
How else are you supposed to teach them might makes right?
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:20 AM   #1273
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The SRO who arrested the 6- and 8-year-olds has been fired.
What seems to be the point he was fired for was not speaking to his supervisor first of all. From an employment viewpoint I can understand that being the grounds for dismissal but why do I have a feeling that if he had contacted his supervisor the arrests would still have happened.
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:07 AM   #1274
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What seems to be the point he was fired for was not speaking to his supervisor first of all. From an employment viewpoint I can understand that being the grounds for dismissal but why do I have a feeling that if he had contacted his supervisor the arrests would still have happened.
As the juvenile assessment center took one of the children to get fingerprinted I think you're right. The system is ok with this. The officer broke protocol and got fired for it.
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Old 24th September 2019, 10:19 AM   #1275
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I mean parents and guardians face terrible consequences if they harm a child while trying to bring their behavior under control or instill discipline that outsiders and "higher authority" figures don't face.

I'm not arguing in favor of physical punishments; rather I'm pointing out these punishments don't carry the same consequences depending who is meting them out.
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Old 24th September 2019, 10:59 AM   #1276
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
No, last time I saw, an outright majority of American adults endorsed spanking (as in, bare hand, switches, etc. on buttocks) children as discipline. It's ineffective according to most studies, but popular.
Yep, every time something like this makes the news a significant portion of the comments I see are essentially "this only happens because parents don't beat their children enough anymore"

Hell, it's still legal in 19 states for teachers to spank kids.

Depressing
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Old 24th September 2019, 11:10 AM   #1277
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Will that stick or will the union get him his job back in a few weeks?
Apparently he's a reserve officer so serves at the pleasure of the chief. That's why he was fired at all probably. No union.
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Old 4th October 2019, 03:28 AM   #1278
erlando
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Police in Glendale AZ are a bit triggerhappy when it comes to tasers..

Bike thief with hands up tased 5 seconds after police arrival:
https://www.abc15.com/news/local-new...force-incident

Man tased 11 times and kicked in the testicles while prone on the ground:
https://www.kshb.com/news/national/a...ers-in-arizona

Also this (fair warning; graphic video is NFSW):
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Police officer while tasing continuously: "GET OUT OF THE CAR"...

Quote:
Man: "Stop hurting me". PO: "I'll keep ******* hurting you if I need to"
ETA: The officer in the video resigned: https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/...ll/2216855001/
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Last edited by erlando; 4th October 2019 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 4th October 2019, 11:01 AM   #1279
deadrose
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I would love to see random drug testing for steroids for police. Too bad police unions are dead set against it. You'd think they'd want to find those "bad apples" and get them out of the force.
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Old 4th October 2019, 11:05 AM   #1280
Cainkane1
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
That someone is posting on a thread, asking for advice on how not to get shot by the police during a routine traffic stop, is evidence that the behaviour of the police in the USA is not what should be expected of a police officer.

I hate referring to those people in uniform as cops or police because that is not how they work.

To me a police officer is someone who has signed up to take risks to themselves so as to preserve the lives of others. Their duty is to detect and arrest suspect criminals so that they should be taken to court and justice served. They are there to calm situations down and preserve the peace. They are there to make good people feel safe and bad people worry they will be caught and convicted. In the UK those duties are enshrined in the law and form the basis of how they are trained.

It has been made abundantly clear by many that in the USA, the police have no duty to protect the public (I believe that may even be backed by law). They are not expected to take risks. It is fine for them to shoot to kill and not arrest. The will inflame situations, make them much worse and think there is no place for patient talking down of violent incidents. They make good people feel scared. They make bad people react with extreme violence back at them because they do not realise the tough guy act causes others to act tough back. The makes many US police no different from vigilante thugs dishing out summary justice.

Why do so many on this forum keep on defending the behaviour of their police and how they are policed?
The behavior of the overwhelming majority of the police in the US is exemplary. Many officers go their entire careers not having to use their service weapon. They help people in many ways above and beyond their assigned duties.

There are bad police officers but most of them are great people.
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