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Tags alex jones , lawsuits , Sandy Hook , shooting conspiracies

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Old 9th March 2019, 02:00 PM   #361
JesseCuster
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Clearly, the U.S. Government is not a 100% reliable source of information, so some level of intuition must be involved. Intuition should not be allowed in court.
Um... what?

1. Of course "the US government" is not "a 100% reliable source of information". Is there any person or institution that is 100% reliable? Is there anyone who thinks "the US government" is 100% reliable? (Everyone has to down a shot of their favourite drink if MJ comes back with the witty retort that skeptics act as if they believe that, that's a tiresome conspiracy theory strawman). You're hardly shattering worldviews by pointing out this obvious fact.

2. "The US government" is not a monolithic institution. It is neither reliable nor unreliable. You can't point out the shady history of the CIA and use it as a blanket excuse to dismiss anything any everything that happens to come from some department or spokesperson or whatever of anything to do with the US government. What is required when determining the truth or falsehood (or likelihood or truth or falsehood) of something that comes from the US government simply requires some critical thinking and a nuanced view of how government institutions work, who from what department of the government is saying what, in what context (under oath in a court of law, a throwaway comment in a press conference, etc.) Your ideas appear to have led to simplistic black and white thinking which isn't doing you any favours.

3. If anything that isn't 100% reliable requires intuition and intuition should not be allowed in court, then good luck getting anyone to offer testimony or expert opinion on anything in a court of law. Courts couldn't function if you couldn't allow anything not 100% reliable on the bizarre idea that it requires 'intuition'. edit: Given your earlier comments about how unreliable humans are and therefore shouldn't be on juries judging cases like this, I'm going to guess that either you actually think the court system should be done away with entirely because it relies on pesky humans who aren't 100% reliable or, more likely, you're just throwing out stuff ad hoc without having thought it through at all.

Last edited by JesseCuster; 9th March 2019 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 9th March 2019, 04:40 PM   #362
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The key point in this case is that the US Government was not the lead entity in the investigation. Local and State law enforcement was in charge.
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Old 10th March 2019, 02:12 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Intuition should not be allowed in court.
Intuition is not reliable.

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
It is my personal opinion based on intuition that they are not actors.
Intuition is reliable.

When you've finished explaining this apparent contradiction, MicahJava, perhaps you'd like to address my previous question:

Do you oppose trial by jury?
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Old 18th March 2019, 11:20 AM   #364
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This American Life Episode 670: "Beware the Jabberwock"

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/670...the-jabberwock

All about Alex Jones, including an extended interview with a Sandy Hook parent who is suing Jones and has made it his mission to fight back against the hoaxers.

Second part is about the early life of Alex Jones. Overall very interesting episode.

Sad part was when they were interviewing a man from Texas that knew Jones in high school and knew him to be an elaborate liar and self-aggrandizer, but was unable to make the leap to realizing that he is still a fraud now as an adult. Very frustrating to say the least.
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Old 18th March 2019, 04:37 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
This American Life Episode 670: "Beware the Jabberwock"

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/670...the-jabberwock

All about Alex Jones, including an extended interview with a Sandy Hook parent who is suing Jones and has made it his mission to fight back against the hoaxers.

Second part is about the early life of Alex Jones. Overall very interesting episode.

Sad part was when they were interviewing a man from Texas that knew Jones in high school and knew him to be an elaborate liar and self-aggrandizer, but was unable to make the leap to realizing that he is still a fraud now as an adult. Very frustrating to say the least.
I just came here to post that same episode. It is truly horrifying the effect the hoaxers have on the survivors of a national tragedy.
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Old 18th March 2019, 06:04 PM   #366
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10 minutes in and seems very interesting, thanks for the link.

But that awful vocal fry at the end of every sentence the female presenter says! It sounds like she's doing an impression of a frog.
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Old 19th March 2019, 08:08 AM   #367
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The second part is very interesting, if entirely predictable in that it shows Jones to be a pathological liar and most probably mentally ill with some sort of genuine narcissistic disorder. But that's probably what they want me to think...

Off topic, for those interested, here's the host Jon Ronson playing a wooden-spoon landlord (called 'Mr Ronson') in a sketch by English comedian Harry Hill eight years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVflGpEUNd4
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Old 25th March 2019, 08:25 AM   #368
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Sandy Hook father, Jeremy Richman, has killed himself. He was among the families of the slain children that was suing Jones. The InfoWars crowd must be very proud of themselves, badgering and spreading conspiracy theories of the grieving.

https://www.courant.com/breaking-new...hu4-story.html
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Old 25th March 2019, 11:19 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Sandy Hook father, Jeremy Richman, has killed himself. He was among the families of the slain children that was suing Jones. The InfoWars crowd must be very proud of themselves, badgering and spreading conspiracy theories of the grieving
Don't expect it to stop/slow down because of that. This will be 'proof that he had something to hide' or somesuch. One thing that seems pretty consistent with your average infowars acolyte is a complete lack of empathy. It's pretty much a channel for actual psychopaths; everyone you don't like is 'THEM' and 'THEY' have no feelings/aren't human/are devils and so on.
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Old 25th March 2019, 11:26 AM   #370
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They'll just say he's another vic-sim, and isn't really dead, or never existed, or something. It's how they roll.
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Old 25th March 2019, 11:30 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Sandy Hook father, Jeremy Richman, has killed himself. He was among the families of the slain children that was suing Jones. The InfoWars crowd must be very proud of themselves, badgering and spreading conspiracy theories of the grieving.

https://www.courant.com/breaking-new...hu4-story.html
This is so sad.
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Old 26th March 2019, 06:16 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
They'll just say he's another vic-sim, and isn't really dead, or never existed, or something. It's how they roll.
My bet is they say he felt guilty over his lies.

That isn't a falsifiable claim.
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Old 26th March 2019, 06:48 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
My bet is they say he felt guilty over his lies.

That isn't a falsifiable claim.
More likely they will claim he was a crisis actor getting ready to blow the thing open and got "suicided" by the powerful people running things.
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Old 26th March 2019, 04:02 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Sandy Hook father, Jeremy Richman, has killed himself. He was among the families of the slain children that was suing Jones. The InfoWars crowd must be very proud of themselves, badgering and spreading conspiracy theories of the grieving.

https://www.courant.com/breaking-new...hu4-story.html
Alex immediately started spinning conspiracy theories about his suicide because he is a piece of ****.
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Old 26th March 2019, 05:14 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Alex Jones is such a vile heap of steaming excrement.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone offed him one day - and I wouldn't lose a millisecond's sleep over it.
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Old 27th March 2019, 06:53 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Alex Jones is such a vile heap of steaming excrement.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone offed him one day - and I wouldn't lose a millisecond's sleep over it.
I'd rather have him live to a ripe old age.

In a cardboard box under some railway bridge.
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Old 27th March 2019, 07:12 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Alex Jones is such a vile heap of steaming excrement.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone offed him one day - and I wouldn't lose a millisecond's sleep over it.
Quit hiding your feelings, how do you really feel about him?
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Old 27th March 2019, 07:16 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
They'll just say he's another vic-sim, and isn't really dead, or never existed, or something. It's how they roll.
You know, at this point I wonder why we don't put people with no empathy in institutions with no internet.
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Old 28th March 2019, 02:41 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
I'd rather have him live to a ripe old age.

In a cardboard box under some railway bridge.
What do you have against cardboard boxes and railroad bridges?
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Old 29th March 2019, 11:35 AM   #380
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I simply don't have words for how vile this is.
NRA Official Sought Sandy Hook Hoaxer To Question Parkland Shooting, Emails Show
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Old 29th March 2019, 06:55 PM   #381
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Alex Jones deposition videos here.

Quote:
The deposition, which was released publicly on Friday, shows Jones in the hot seat as he attempts to explain his reasoning for spending years falsely claiming that the school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut ― which left 20 children and six adults dead ― was a hoax.

Poor squirming little worm. I love this leader from AV News:

Quote:
This 4-hour Alex Jones deposition video is a near-lethal dose of awkward schadenfreude
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Old 29th March 2019, 07:58 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by EvilBiker View Post
Alex Jones deposition videos here.

Poor squirming little worm. I love this leader from AV News:
This is more fun than a ferret down your trousers!
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Old 30th March 2019, 01:51 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
This is more fun than a ferret down your trousers!
Inorite??

I must admit to viewing a lot of it - I could not get enough of that expression, and the lawyer's questioning.

Lawyer: Did you ever say/meet/threaten X?
Alex Jones: No/not that I recall.
Lawyer: Here's one of your videos where you do that.
Alex Jones: ...

Rinse and repeat.
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Old 30th March 2019, 04:06 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by EvilBiker View Post
Inorite??

I must admit to viewing a lot of it - I could not get enough of that expression, and the lawyer's questioning.

Lawyer: Did you ever say/meet/threaten X?
Alex Jones: No/not that I recall.
Lawyer: Here's one of your videos where you do that.
Alex Jones: ...

Rinse and repeat.
When he's out of his comfort zone (i.e. not able to hide in his studio) and is having to face instant feedback from those he is talking to, he is utterly all-at-sea.... and a coward.

Schadenfreude was made for occasions like this!
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Old 30th March 2019, 07:35 AM   #385
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But of course, his deposition gets better:


Quote:
Jones: Well, sometimes people claim theyíve been hurt when they havenít been. So you have to look at the agenda behind things. Ö

And I, myself, have almost had like a form of psychosis back in the past where I basically thought everything was staged, even though Iím now learning a lot of times things arenít staged. So I think, as a pundit, someone giving an opinion, that, you know, my opinions have been wrong; but they were never wrong consciously to hurt people.


Mark Bankston (attorney for the plaintiff): You said false things about Sandy Hook because it was psychosis?

See? He was just crazy back then. Not now, of course, I'm sure his making up new conspiracy theories about the same event is perfectly rational!


But of course it wasn't Alex's fault that he was crazy back then (but not now, no!), it was all that lying media's fault!


Quote:
Jones: Well, Iím just saying that the trauma of the media and the corporations lying so much, then everything begins ó you donít trust anything anymore, kind of like a child whose parents lie to them over and over again, well, pretty soon they donít know what reality is.

Poor Alex, dealing with all that trauma of watching the news and then trying to profit off of tragedy. He's the real vicsim here!
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Old 30th March 2019, 07:43 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
He's the real vicsim here!
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Old 30th March 2019, 08:13 AM   #387
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Yes, the poor guy is a victim of fake news:

Quote:
He said it was the "trauma of the media and the corporations lying so much" that caused him to distrust everything, "kind of like a child whose parents lie to them over and over again."
Alex Jones says 'form of psychosis' made him believe events like Sandy Hook massacre were staged (CNN, March 30, 2019)
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Old 30th March 2019, 08:31 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
But of course, his deposition gets better:





See? He was just crazy back then. Not now, of course, I'm sure his making up new conspiracy theories about the same event is perfectly rational!


But of course it wasn't Alex's fault that he was crazy back then (but not now, no!), it was all that lying media's fault!





Poor Alex, dealing with all that trauma of watching the news and then trying to profit off of tragedy. He's the real vicsim here!
Alex certainly doesn't know the truth, whatever his excuse is.
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Old 30th March 2019, 08:57 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
But of course, his deposition gets better:





See? He was just crazy back then. Not now, of course, I'm sure his making up new conspiracy theories about the same event is perfectly rational!


But of course it wasn't Alex's fault that he was crazy back then (but not now, no!), it was all that lying media's fault!





Poor Alex, dealing with all that trauma of watching the news and then trying to profit off of tragedy. He's the real vicsim here!
so he doesn't consider himself media? or does he?
I haven't watched but how does he explain his divorce testimony?

Last edited by Whip; 30th March 2019 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 30th March 2019, 12:24 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
All evidence that the Sandy Hook victims are "victims" comes from the U.S. Government, the same government that originated 1967 Operation Northwoods memo, 1990 Nayirah testimony, and the 2003 Bush-Blair Iraq memo. Clearly, the U.S. Government is not a 100% reliable source of information, so some level of intuition must be involved. Intuition should not be allowed in court.
What sources do you consider to be 100% reliable regarding Sandy Hook? I would like to take a look at them.
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Old 30th March 2019, 01:52 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Yes, the poor guy is a victim of fake news:
Jones gives douchebaggery a bad name.
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Old 30th March 2019, 10:16 PM   #392
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I really hope that Alex Jones will become a cautionary tale for sociopaths seeking to make money by peddling hate.
At least for a while.
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Old 31st March 2019, 12:33 AM   #393
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He will be held up as a martyr in this new disTrumpian world we now live in.
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Old 31st March 2019, 12:38 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
He will be held up as a martyr in this new disTrumpian world we now live in.
^^That. Sadly

Once you reach the level of cult following that Jones has it is literally impossible for you to be in the wrong about anything.
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Old 31st March 2019, 08:52 AM   #395
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Alex Jones admits he's crazy.

Alex Jones tries to beat a law suit by claiming he's crazy.
Quote:
(CNN) Broadcaster and conspiracy theorist Alex Jones said it was a "form of psychosis" that caused him to believe certain events --- like the Sandy Hook massacre -- were staged.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/30/us/al...ook/index.html
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Old 31st March 2019, 09:45 AM   #396
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Sort of. He claims it was 'almost like a form of psychosis', which is a comparison more than admission. He also claims it arose from the media lying so much he developed an instinctive mistrust.

So he doesn't get self reflection or honesty points just yet. Still in the plausible deniability and weaseling stage, IMO.
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Old 31st March 2019, 09:48 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Sort of. He claims it was 'almost like a form of psychosis', which is a comparison more than admission. He also claims it arose from the media lying so much he developed an instinctive mistrust.

So he doesn't get self reflection or honesty points just yet. Still in the plausible deniability and weaseling stage, IMO.
We almost had him.

It's hard to see how he can get out of this.
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Old 31st March 2019, 09:50 AM   #398
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6#post12650916
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Old 31st March 2019, 10:31 AM   #399
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During his divorce he claimed saying crazy stuff was just a performance. Now it's a form of psychosis. Which is it, Alex?
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Old 31st March 2019, 10:35 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
During his divorce he claimed saying crazy stuff was just a performance. Now it's a form of psychosis. Which is it, Alex?
I bet if you tweeted that question to Alex Jones, it would dismantle his whole thing.
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