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Tags Boston incidents , Kyle Chapman , Mark Sahady , white nationalists

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Old 4th September 2019, 04:23 AM   #361
SuburbanTurkey
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I skimmed the article.
I don't know who wrote that but I think I can guess their agenda.

Contrast to this AFP article published by Yahoo! News:
US police fire pepper spray after pro-Trump 'Straight Pride' parade



I wasn't there, so I don't know, but I'm a bit skeptical of these reports.

The job of the police was to prevent violence between the sides by keeping them separate and to restore order (re-open the roads) after it was over. Throwing dirt and eggs at the police, berating them for just doing what they're supposed to do, is not nice.
Honestly, this is probably the alt-right's goals when they come to Boston. They know that they will be dwarfed 10:1 by counter-protesters. They also know that the police here will segregate the two groups and are pretty quick to quell any rowdiness.

Alt-right knows if they show up that a bunch of lefties will show up and a few will lose their cool and get thumped by the cops.
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Old 4th September 2019, 05:12 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Honestly, this is probably the alt-right's goals when they come to Boston. They know that they will be dwarfed 10:1 by counter-protesters. They also know that the police here will segregate the two groups and are pretty quick to quell any rowdiness.

Alt-right knows if they show up that a bunch of lefties will show up and a few will lose their cool and get thumped by the cops.
Looking at the videos, it was mostly the cops losing their cool and "thumping" random people with fists, bicycles and pepper spray.

Which, given my own experiences with BPD, and those of every single black person I knew there for a significant length of time, is not a shock. Also, I already saw the videos in question, and know full well that the streets they supposedly "HAD TO CLEAR!" by their own words, had been specifically closed off for the counterprotestors and cops apparently didn't bother asking anyone to actually clear said streets before turning violent.

Last edited by Mumbles; 4th September 2019 at 05:14 AM.
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Old 4th September 2019, 05:20 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Looking at the videos, it was mostly the cops losing their cool and "thumping" random people with fists, bicycles and pepper spray.

Which, given my own experiences with BPD, and those of every single black person I knew there for a significant length of time, is not a shock. Also, I already saw the videos in question, and know full well that the streets they supposedly "HAD TO CLEAR!" by their own words, had been specifically closed off for the counterprotestors and cops apparently didn't bother asking anyone to actually clear said streets before turning violent.
What fun would actually telling people before thumping them be for the cops?
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Old 4th September 2019, 05:27 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Looking at the videos, it was mostly the cops losing their cool and "thumping" random people with fists, bicycles and pepper spray.

Which, given my own experiences with BPD, and those of every single black person I knew there for a significant length of time, is not a shock. Also, I already saw the videos in question, and know full well that the streets they supposedly "HAD TO CLEAR!" by their own words, had been specifically closed off for the counterprotestors and cops apparently didn't bother asking anyone to actually clear said streets before turning violent.
Yeah, BPD overreacting and being general jackboots is nothing new. Alt-right is probably pleased as punch that BPD is doing their dirty work.

I think the general tactic that BPD uses, keeping the sides separated and breaking up fights before they snowball, is good. Their contempt for citizens is a general problem not only seen at protests.

All things considered, I much prefer the BPD response to the Portland response. That's not to say there isn't real reason for complaint.
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Old 4th September 2019, 06:52 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Which, given my own experiences with BPD, and those of every single black person I knew there for a significant length of time, is not a shock. Also, I already saw the videos in question, and know full well that the streets they supposedly "HAD TO CLEAR!" by their own words, had been specifically closed off for the counterprotestors and cops apparently didn't bother asking anyone to actually clear said streets before turning violent.
It's not just with the BPD. Black baseball players say playing in Boston is absolutely horrific. There was an outcry by several players because they just didn't want to go. CC Sabathia said that when you go to Boston you just expect to be called the N word. I'm not sure what it is in Boston's water, but maybe that's why that alt-right picked the spot.
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Old 4th September 2019, 09:39 AM   #366
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Apparently it's not just the police, and baseball fans, but the judges too!

Link:

Quote:
A judge Tuesday denied almost every request to dismiss charges or ease bail for three dozen counterprotesters who were arrested at the Boston Straight Pride event on Saturday, despite prosecutors' requests, according to NBC’s Boston affiliate.
The Boston police liked it though:

Quote:
"We think these offenders that are here, most of them outside the city of Boston, not residents here, came here as agitators, here for a specific reason, here to create havoc,” Larry Calderone, a spokesperson for the Boston Police Patrolmen's Association, told NBC Boston.
The DA and politicians are saying the judge overstepped his authority, and there should be an investigation into the police's tactics.
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Old 4th September 2019, 11:08 AM   #367
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Things getting buck wild in the courtroom for the counter protesters.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...U6O/story.html

Judge refuses to accept nolle pros decision from the district attorney (the DA is deciding not to prosecute these cases, as is her discretion). Now the Judge has ordered one of the defendant's attorneys to jail for contempt because she would not stop reading case law how denying nolle pros is unlawful.

Judge is really hellbent on taking a stand here. He won't win, but given the massive leniency that judges enjoy, I doubt he'll face any serious consequences.
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Old 4th September 2019, 11:22 AM   #368
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Wut?^^
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
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Old 4th September 2019, 11:32 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Wut?^^
The judge is refusing to drop cases that the DA doesn't want to prosecute, and one of the defense attorneys was basically telling him that's not an option by reading case law.
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Old 4th September 2019, 11:32 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Wut?^^
The judge isn't going to let prosecutors get in the way of delivering justice the police demand.
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Old 4th September 2019, 11:45 AM   #371
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The courtroom is no place for the law!
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Old 4th September 2019, 12:11 PM   #372
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A little primer on DA Rollins. She was recently elected as the DA of Suffolk county, which includes Boston. She is best known for her progressive policy of non-prosecution for a selection of petty crimes, as part of a policy of de-criminalization. She was already butting heads with the police over her progressive policies, now she is refusing to prosecute many of the counter protestors arrested over the weekend, most of whom are charged with disorderly conduct and/or resisting arrest.

https://rollins4da.com/policy/charges-to-be-declined/
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Old 4th September 2019, 12:25 PM   #373
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Everything old is new again. Here's a bit from an article about former Alabama Governor George Wallace who ran on a pro-segregation platform:

Quote:
Wallace wrote Martin that "we have never had a problem in the South except in a few very isolated instances and these have been the result of outside agitators." Wallace asserted that "I personally have done more for the Negroes of the State of Alabama than any other individual," citing job creation and the salaries of black teachers in Alabama. He rationalized segregation as "best for both races," writing that "they each prefer their own pattern of society, their own churches and their own schools." Wallace assured Martin that Alabamans were satisfied with society as it was and that the only "major friction" was created by "outside agitators.
https://www.gilderlehrman.org/conten...gregation-1964

"outside agitator" has a long history as an idea used to dismiss protestor concerns and justify violence and legal persecution against demonstrators.

Notice also how the explicitly pro-segregation candidate likes to say (paraphrased) "My policies aren't against black people, look how many jobs I create for them". Sound familiar?
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Old 4th September 2019, 01:47 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
A little primer on DA Rollins. She was recently elected as the DA of Suffolk county, which includes Boston. She is best known for her progressive policy of non-prosecution for a selection of petty crimes, as part of a policy of de-criminalization. She was already butting heads with the police over her progressive policies, now she is refusing to prosecute many of the counter protestors arrested over the weekend, most of whom are charged with disorderly conduct and/or resisting arrest.

https://rollins4da.com/policy/charges-to-be-declined/
Actually quite a few DA's decline to prosecute in these kind of cases. The idea to get the demonstrartors resorting to violence off the streets for a few hourse until things calm down.
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Old 4th September 2019, 01:49 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Honestly, this is probably the alt-right's goals when they come to Boston. They know that they will be dwarfed 10:1 by counter-protesters. They also know that the police here will segregate the two groups and are pretty quick to quell any rowdiness.

Alt-right knows if they show up that a bunch of lefties will show up and a few will lose their cool and get thumped by the cops.
Which is why I think the best tactic is to let the alt right fools display their idiocy to the world. Violent counter protests just play into their hands. But too many on the left seems to have a "this is the way we did it in the Sixties, so this is the way we will do it now" mentality.
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Old 4th September 2019, 01:53 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
*colonists throwing cases of tea into the harbor glance up*
Let's not forget the BOston massacre of a few years before.
Or a few cases of tar and feathering...

Yeah, Boston has sort of lost it when it comes to violent protests since the Revolutionary period.
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Old 4th September 2019, 01:55 PM   #377
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And as much as I despise the alt right, if they don't break the law they have as much right to demonstrate as the next person.
I know this an opinion that is not popular here. Distrubed that so many supposed skeptics seem to dislike freedom of speech.
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Old 4th September 2019, 01:58 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Same with his misogamy. He cheated on wife A publicly with B, etc. Not even kind of privately. It was blatant and in the open. He's also had a myriad of degrading comments about females. Calling them dogs, implying that whenever they're made it's because they're having their period, and more.
TBF What Clinton got away with tends to be largely brushed over, so it seems US presidents get given a bit of leeway when it comes to sexism.
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Old 4th September 2019, 03:06 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And as much as I despise the alt right, if they don't break the law they have as much right to demonstrate as the next person.
I know this an opinion that is not popular here. Distrubed that so many supposed skeptics seem to dislike freedom of speech.

Everything You Think You Know About ‘Free Speech’ Is a Lie
How far-right operatives manufactured the “crisis” of free speech with books, think tanks—and billions of dollars.


The article does not lend itself well to sound-bite excepts, so you'll have to actually read it.

The gist is, this "dislike freedom of speech" is nothing but a Right-Wing talking point that has not basis in reality, and even the phrase "freedom of speech" has been re-defined by the Right to mean something completely different; said re-definition having been funded by arch-conservative billionaires to squash dissent and criticism.
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Old 4th September 2019, 04:50 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Which is why I think the best tactic is to let the alt right fools display their idiocy to the world. Violent counter protests just play into their hands. But too many on the left seems to have a "this is the way we did it in the Sixties, so this is the way we will do it now" mentality.
Except, again, the counterprotests weren't violent - the cops were just randomly attacking and arresting people. This is why the DA is refusing to prosecute most of the charges, even when the police are alleging that they were violently attacked. When there's an extended video of the people involved clearly just standing around when a cop just starts shoving a bicycle into them and knocking them over, and then arresting them because "THEY WOULDN"T CLEAR THE AREA!", when no such instruction was given, the case is over.
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Old 4th September 2019, 05:13 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And as much as I despise the alt right, if they don't break the law they have as much right to demonstrate as the next person.
I know this an opinion that is not popular here. Distrubed that so many supposed skeptics seem to dislike freedom of speech.
Actually, it's very popular, so long as counterprotestors are allowed the same rights. The problems are two-fold

1) in this case, the violent group were the police, as video linked above shows;

2) Given the opportunity, the alt-right invariably turns violent, as seen in Portland, Charolettesville VA, NYC, the Emmanuel Baptist Church, Christchurch NZ, El Paso TX, and so forth. And since police often allow this to happen, the solution is still to simply outnumber them - turns out they're pretty cowardly in public "marches" such as this.
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Old 4th September 2019, 06:19 PM   #382
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The prosecutors were not pressing charges on the non-violent protesters, most local media are reporting it as the DA accusing the judge of overreach.
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Old 5th September 2019, 03:07 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Actually quite a few DA's decline to prosecute in these kind of cases. The idea to get the demonstrartors resorting to violence off the streets for a few hourse until things calm down.
Yes it is only the cops who should be on the street enjoying the violence.
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Old 5th September 2019, 03:10 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And as much as I despise the alt right, if they don't break the law they have as much right to demonstrate as the next person.
I know this an opinion that is not popular here. Distrubed that so many supposed skeptics seem to dislike freedom of speech.
And yet we never get proper pro ISIS parades like we should be seeing in america. It is only politically acceptable kinds of encouraging genocide that are OK. The ones that twitter can't filter for because it catches to many republican politicians to be politically correct to filter against.
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Old 5th September 2019, 03:12 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Except, again, the counterprotests weren't violent - the cops were just randomly attacking and arresting people. This is why the DA is refusing to prosecute most of the charges, even when the police are alleging that they were violently attacked. When there's an extended video of the people involved clearly just standing around when a cop just starts shoving a bicycle into them and knocking them over, and then arresting them because "THEY WOULDN"T CLEAR THE AREA!", when no such instruction was given, the case is over.
But cops shouldn't need to give actual orders for them to be obeyed! It would be like not opening fire when they see a black person with a toy gun, totally at odds with accepted standards of policing.
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Old 5th September 2019, 04:28 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And yet we never get proper pro ISIS parades like we should be seeing in america. It is only politically acceptable kinds of encouraging genocide that are OK. The ones that twitter can't filter for because it catches to many republican politicians to be politically correct to filter against.
That's a bit uncharitable. There are still remnants of an older form of liberalism in this country in the mold of the Skokie era ACLU. The ACLU protected the 1A rights of literal Nazis marching through a town with many Holocaust survivors. It was a controversial decision and was a defining moment for the organization and how many viewed 1A rights.

Besides reining in the police who are too quick to crack heads, which is a broader police problem not exclusive to this protest, what should Boston have done differently that is consistent with protecting the first amendment? These turds have a right to have their little nazi love-in in the streets of Boston, the same as anyone else.
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Old 5th September 2019, 04:35 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Which is why I think the best tactic is to let the alt right fools display their idiocy to the world. Violent counter protests just play into their hands. But too many on the left seems to have a "this is the way we did it in the Sixties, so this is the way we will do it now" mentality.

I don't think that most of those counter protesters had been born in the 1960s. That they also weren't violent doesn't seem to bother you, but I've seen you get upset before when it was pointed out to you that alleged Marx quotations extolling violence were made up by right-wing extremists.
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Old 5th September 2019, 04:36 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
That's a bit uncharitable. There are still remnants of an older form of liberalism in this country in the mold of the Skokie era ACLU. The ACLU protected the 1A rights of literal Nazis marching through a town with many Holocaust survivors. It was a controversial decision and was a defining moment for the organization and how many viewed 1A rights.
Look what other groups advocating genocide get people bending over backwards to support them? Only those with such broad support as shown by how much fox news loves them and their deep ties to the republican establishment. Nazis are simply to american and popular to be viewed in the same regard as truly unpopular speech.

Where are the hundreds of thousands of dollars in protection for pro ISIS speakers at colleges in the name of free speech? No where because it is only popular speech like nazism that gets that protection.
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Old 5th September 2019, 04:40 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Look what other groups advocating genocide get people bending over backwards to support them? Only those with such broad support as shown by how much fox news loves them and their deep ties to the republican establishment. Nazis are simply to american and popular to be viewed in the same regard as truly unpopular speech.

Where are the hundreds of thousands of dollars in protection for pro ISIS speakers at colleges in the name of free speech? No where because it is only popular speech like nazism that gets that protection.
I think there is a good point to be made for deplatforming these goons, but applying for a city permit to march is very different than doing the college circuit. There is a significant distinction.

What should these cities do when some neo-Nazi organization applies for a permit? What should Boston have done differently here once they received a properly completed application to march? Please be specific.
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Old 5th September 2019, 04:53 AM   #390
uke2se
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I think there is a good point to be made for deplatforming these goons, but applying for a city permit to march is very different than doing the college circuit. There is a significant distinction.

What should these cities do when some neo-Nazi organization applies for a permit? What should Boston have done differently here once they received a properly completed application to march? Please be specific.
The Police should protect the anti-fascists and if they need to rough up anyone, let them rough up the Nazis.
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Old 5th September 2019, 04:59 AM   #391
cullennz
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Look what other groups advocating genocide get people bending over backwards to support them? Only those with such broad support as shown by how much fox news loves them and their deep ties to the republican establishment. Nazis are simply to american and popular to be viewed in the same regard as truly unpopular speech.

Where are the hundreds of thousands of dollars in protection for pro ISIS speakers at colleges in the name of free speech? No where because it is only popular speech like nazism that gets that protection.
I would be interested to know how you get from a bunch of, probably in the majority lonely thick dudes joining some stupid straight march, some idiots had organised to wind up the left, automatically means they are advocating genocide.

You do understand the differences in concept of genocide and idiots disagreeing with gay relationships?

I am fine to explain, if it helps
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Old 5th September 2019, 05:11 AM   #392
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
The Police should protect the anti-fascists and if they need to rough up anyone, let them rough up the Nazis.
Why are they going to attack their buddies?
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Old 5th September 2019, 05:13 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I would be interested to know how you get from a bunch of, probably in the majority lonely thick dudes joining some stupid straight march, some idiots had organised to wind up the left, automatically means they are advocating genocide.
Yes yes yes, lots of people attend events organized by explicit white supremacists and never realized that, I am sure you find yourself at such events all the time. Though it is nice to see someone agree with Trump that at Charlottesville there were good people on both sides.

But I am sure it is the peaceful good kind of ethnic cleansing they are for.
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Old 5th September 2019, 05:23 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I would be interested to know how you get from a bunch of, probably in the majority lonely thick dudes joining some stupid straight march, some idiots had organised to wind up the left, automatically means they are advocating genocide.

You do understand the differences in concept of genocide and idiots disagreeing with gay relationships?

I am fine to explain, if it helps
When the march is organized by neo Nazi, then it's a moot point.
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Old 5th September 2019, 05:27 AM   #395
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I would be interested to know how you get from a bunch of, probably in the majority lonely thick dudes joining some stupid straight march, some idiots had organised to wind up the left, automatically means they are advocating genocide.

You do understand the differences in concept of genocide and idiots disagreeing with gay relationships?

I am fine to explain, if it helps
You are looking at the march in isolation. The people referring to them as genocidal, racist, Nazis are looking at the publicly available information on the infected snozzberry pustules who organized the event.

You are implying the full statement is, "These people are Nazis because they attended the straight pride march," when in fact the full statement is, "Known Nazis and genocidal white supremacists ran a so-called 'straight pride' march and sympathetic ******** joined them."
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Old 5th September 2019, 05:28 AM   #396
cullennz
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yes yes yes, lots of people attend events organized by explicit white supremacists and never realized that, I am sure you find yourself at such events all the time. Though it is nice to see someone agree with Trump that at Charlottesville there were good people on both sides.

But I am sure it is the peaceful good kind of ethnic cleansing they are for.
You seem to have missed my question

Let me give your theory a go.

Let us say every person on a straight gender pride parade is

Giant leap

Also racist? (doubtful, but for your benefit, let us say yes)

Giantest leap known to man leap

Also wanting genocide?

We go from a bunch of homophobes, to racist, to wanting to kill all black people in three steps.

Personally I find your view dumber than theirs and that is saying something given how dumb theirs is.

Again

I can explain what genocide means if needed
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Old 5th September 2019, 05:38 AM   #397
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You seem to have missed my question

Let me give your theory a go.

Let us say every person on a straight gender pride parade is

Giant leap

Also racist? (doubtful, but for your benefit, let us say yes)

Giantest leap known to man leap

Also wanting genocide?

We go from a bunch of homophobes, to racist, to wanting to kill all black people in three steps.

Personally I find your view dumber than theirs and that is saying something given how dumb theirs is.

Again

I can explain what genocide means if needed
You have the logic backwards.

I do not assert the Fragile Masculinity Parade marchers are racist, genocidal, Nazis because they attended the parade.

I assert that the Fragile Masculinity Parade was an event for racist, genocidal, Nazis because it was ORGANIZED and largely ATTENDED by the associates of KNOWN racist, genocidal, Nazis.

You're pretending the only thing we know about these dingleberries is their attendance at the parade. This very thread is rich with links to information about the people who ran this.
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Old 5th September 2019, 05:42 AM   #398
cullennz
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
You have the logic backwards.

I do not assert the Fragile Masculinity Parade marchers are racist, genocidal, Nazis because they attended the parade.

I assert that the Fragile Masculinity Parade was an event for racist, genocidal, Nazis because it was ORGANIZED and largely ATTENDED by the associates of KNOWN racist, genocidal, Nazis.

You're pretending the only thing we know about these dingleberries is their attendance at the parade. This very thread is rich with links to information about the people who ran this.
You do realise the whole point of a parade is the number of people doing it and not the people who organised it via the internet.

I mean otherwise it would be called a "three or four people walking down the road"
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Old 5th September 2019, 05:58 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You do realise the whole point of a parade is the number of people doing it and not the people who organised it via the internet.

I mean otherwise it would be called a "three or four people walking down the road"
Yeah, but most of the attendees don't care specifically about pride in heterodom. They cared about the excuse to rile up their opponents by indirect gay-bashing.

Look at the paraders. See any guys walking their female partners in the wheelbarrow position down the street? They don't care about straightness. It is simply a dog-whistle for the bashers to unite under a cheap pretense.
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Old 5th September 2019, 06:01 AM   #400
uke2se
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yeah, but most of the attendees don't care specifically about pride in heterodom. They cared about the excuse to rile up their opponents by indirect gay-bashing.

Look at the paraders. See any guys walking their female partners in the wheelbarrow position down the street? They don't care about straightness. It is simply a dog-whistle for the bashers to unite under a cheap pretense.
It's also an excuse to get idiots and nazi-adjacent people to start asking "what's wrong with straight pride?" and "How can you say all the people in the march are Nazis?" on public forums, thus perpetuating the discussion and make their hate more opaque in the eyes of "enlightened centrists".
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