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Old 29th August 2019, 07:58 PM   #41
uke2se
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Since you obviously hate it here, and can only respond via ad-hom, and personal attacks, why stay here? The OP has already been shown to be hilariously wrong, and people have the ability to respond, or not. What is being stated is that since the OP is so wrong, and it has been pointed out as such, there is no point in engaging.
I would propose not engaging with that particular specimen either. The bigots are here to get a rise out of us, not to discuss.
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Old 29th August 2019, 07:59 PM   #42
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Says the person who goes around demanding people not to discuss.
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Old 29th August 2019, 08:05 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I would propose not engaging with that particular specimen either. The bigots are here to get a rise out of us, not to discuss.
I know. But one can hope they'll let go of their hate, and stop attacking the members of the forum.
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Old 29th August 2019, 08:05 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by That19Guy View Post
Sorry bout it but you weren't "Born This Way"
In that case, I will now choose to be gay so that no longer have to be embarrassed by association with people like you.
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Old 29th August 2019, 08:19 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
In that case, I will now choose to be gay so that no longer have to be embarrassed by association with people like you.
I warn you. Once you go penis, there is no turning back.
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Old 29th August 2019, 08:22 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Oh god no. Jesus Christ the cringe on here is so bad. Epigenetic changes don't just occur in tumor suppressor genes. This place is so scientifically illiterate, and proud of it.
I don't think Norm was talking about epigenetic changes, but mutations.

As far as the mechanism for cancers, I don't think he's too far off base:

https://www.nature.com/scitable/topi...ncer-14046590/

Quote:
Cells become cancerous after mutations accumulate in the various genes that control cell proliferation. According to research findings from the Cancer Genome Project, most cancer cells possess 60 or more mutations. The challenge for medical researchers is to identify which of these mutations are responsible for particular kinds of cancer. This process is akin to searching for the proverbial needle in a haystack, because many of the mutations present in these cells have little to nothing to do with cancer growth.

Different kinds of cancers have different mutational signatures. However, scientific comparison of multiple tumor types has revealed that certain genes are mutated in cancer cells more often than others. For instance, growth-promoting genes, such as the gene for the signaling protein Ras, are among those most commonly mutated in cancer cells, becoming super-active and producing cells that are too strongly stimulated by growth receptors. Some chemotherapy drugs work to counteract these mutations by blocking the action of growth-signaling proteins. The breast cancer drug Herceptin, for example, blocks overactive receptor tyrosine kinases (RTKs), and the drug Gleevec blocks a mutant signaling kinase associated with chronic myelogenous leukemia.

Other cancer-related mutations inactivate the genes that suppress cell proliferation or those that signal the need for apoptosis. These genes, known as tumor suppressor genes, normally function like brakes on proliferation, and both copies within a cell must be mutated in order for uncontrolled division to occur. For example, many cancer cells carry two mutant copies of the gene that codes for p53, a multifunctional protein that normally senses DNA damage and acts as a transcription factor for checkpoint control genes.
A mutation, as I understand it, is a change in the DNA sequence itself, while an epigenetic change is a change in a factor that affects the expression of the DNA. The exact chemical mechanisms are not fully understood, but they are making incredible progress.
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Old 29th August 2019, 09:36 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
This is good news, OP! According to your interpretation of these findings, I must be able to turn myself into a lesbian, after all. I'm going to get right on that. I knew I just wasn't trying hard enough.

I can't wait. No more "Mars vs. Venus" complications for me.

Ladies?
Life would be simple, wouldn't it? Back long long ago, when I lived in New York briefly, and was a shy, lonely, horny young thing, I noticed that the gay guys were getting better action without much effort. I walked down Christopher Street (pre stonewall, pre aids too) practically every day on my way to school. How easy it would have been, but alas, I just had one problem - I was too hetero for my own good. Too bad. Life is so damned complicated.

I suppose if you find heterosexuality a burdensome virtue, you almost have to be homophobic. Being gay isn't just wrong, it's lazy.
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Old 29th August 2019, 09:48 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Arisia View Post
If I wish hard enough, can I change my natural hair color or eye color? You'd think those would be less complicated and more achievable than changing sexual orientation.

Yes, of course you can change your natural hair color or eye color.

If you are subjected to brown-eyed and black-haired programming repeatedly and you see more of it than blue-eyed influence, you have a likelier chance of growing up to have brown eyes and black hair.
That's why people in Africa all have brown eyes and black hair: They aren't (or are insufficiently) exposed to blue eyes and blond hair and they end up thinking that black hair and brown eyes are what nature intended.

And vice versa here in Scandinavia: We can see it in all the children adopted from Africa: Growing up in a blue-eyed and blond environment changes their genes with age so they almost always end up blue-eyed and blond - unless they are exposed to black-is-beautiful propaganda or similar nonsense.

Not that I mind. For all I care they can insist on becoming black-haired and brown-eyed, but what I can't stand and what really proves the perversion of this way of thinking is when they also insist on becoming brown-skinned and lactose intolerant instead of letting their genetical makeup adapt to the Scandinavian way of doing things.
Something's definitely wrong with those people.
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Old 29th August 2019, 10:21 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
Maybe you can enlighten me.

I assume you are heterosexual. How did you go about making that choice? At what age did you make the choice?

Let's say you are 13 years old and not sexually attracted to anyone at all and you decided "Hey, I know, I will become one of those heterosexuals", how did you go about it?

How did you make yourself sexually attracted to the opposite sex?

He/she didn't make that choice... Goddidit!
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Old 29th August 2019, 10:52 PM   #50
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Nuke the troll thread.
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Old 29th August 2019, 11:54 PM   #51
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Just so you know, choose either:

Sorry bout it but you weren't "Born This Way"

No individual gene alone makes a person gay, lesbian or bisexual; instead, thousands of genes likely influence sexual orientation, a massive new study of the genomes of nearly half a million people suggests.


If "thousands" of genes have been shown to influence sexual orientation then you're born one way or the other. There are five genes that determine your skin coloration, there is no "white" or "black" gene either, but you're still born with it. It's certainly not a lifestyle choice.

Plentiful other examples exist, I just picked one everyone is familiar with.

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Old 30th August 2019, 12:32 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Just so you know, choose either:
Best if you choose the one that's actually true.
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Old 30th August 2019, 12:32 AM   #53
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Oh my goodness!


Next you know they will claim there is no male or female gene either.
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Old 30th August 2019, 01:55 AM   #54
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Quote:
The 'Gay Gene' Is a Total Myth, Massive Study Concludes
Utterly unsurprising. Genetics doesn't work that way.

Originally Posted by That19Guy View Post
Not at all surprised. The end result of homosexuality produces a repeatable outcome.

Disease.

On a grand scale. And yet we have people arguing for the growth of that and the promulgation of it.
Aww, is someone scared by homosexuality? Or a little too fascinated?
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Old 30th August 2019, 01:57 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by That19Guy View Post
Au contraire<snippage of misquoted and irrelevant science>
What's this got to do with your bigotry?
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 30th August 2019, 01:59 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Seems to me a lot of anti-gay guys are fighting internal demons about their sexuality.
This. It's interesting that actual science has linked expressions of homophobia with repressed homosexuality.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 30th August 2019, 02:00 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by That19Guy View Post
It's not about caring about who they become, it's about clarifying why the became that way.
<>
Just know that nothing in your chemical composition led you to that life, but rather the interest in that life led to the changes in your chemical composition.
Not true. As the study you linked to, but obviously didn't bother to read or couldn't understand, shows.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 30th August 2019, 02:10 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
Maybe you can enlighten me.

I assume you are heterosexual.
So does he.
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Old 30th August 2019, 02:13 AM   #59
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by Cheetah View Post
Oh my goodness!


Next you know they will claim there is no male or female gene either.
Good analogy. Indeed, there is no male or female gene.

I guess it must be a lifestyle choice where we grow our genitals, then. Who knew?

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Old 30th August 2019, 02:15 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
It's interesting that actual science has linked expressions of homophobia with repressed homosexuality.
It's interesting, and also utterly delightful.
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Old 30th August 2019, 02:27 AM   #61
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I notice another pattern:

Originally Posted by That19Guy View Post
I don't know why other gay folks are mad w/ them? What was said was is true. I do believe you have the right to choose your life but when it comes to something that's natural like procreation I feel that's simple. The design of the male body vs the female body explains exactly what it's meant for. A man's sexual organ is designed to penetrate. The woman's body is made to be penetrated. When you combine the two you recreate life (a baby).

Anytime you try & alter that a new life can't be made naturally. Science has to be involved or a surrogate is needed. Face it, that route isn't natural. It all boils down to having sperm from a man fertilizing eggs from a woman. Again you have the right to choose your own path but the body doesn't lie in this case.

From the thread Dolce & Gabbana Face Outrage After Comments About Gay Families (2015).

For those of us who are a little slow, could you please explain what kind of penetration nature had in mind? I know from experience that a woman's body has an awful lot of orifices and doesn't come with a user's manual, and I've heard that penetrating most of those doesn't fertilize any eggs at all, which seems to be make the design of the female body pretty ambiguous.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 30th August 2019 at 02:35 AM.
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Old 30th August 2019, 04:35 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by That19Guy View Post
And yet we have people arguing for the growth of that and the promulgation of it.
No one's done this. At best people have been saying to let consenting adults live their lives as they see fit. It's not going to turn me gay to do that.

Quote:
Disease.
What's changed? Your link says it's not one gene but several. I don't see what that changes about what we thought caused homosexuality. And who cares anyway? Even were it a choice, so what?
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Old 30th August 2019, 04:43 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Cheetah View Post
Oh my goodness!


Next you know they will claim there is no male or female gene either.

Well, there is no female gene, but there is a male gene.
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Old 30th August 2019, 04:43 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by That19Guy View Post
Au contraire
Leave my language alone, please.

Quote:
DNA evolves as you age...
No it doesn't. Some of your cells may get genetic damage from a number of sources but it's not like your genome changes.
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Old 30th August 2019, 04:44 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I would propose not engaging with that particular specimen either. The bigots are here to get a rise out of us, not to discuss.
Oops, Baylor just made the punchables list.
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Old 30th August 2019, 04:49 AM   #66
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I kind felt like the "gay is a choice or not" kind of feel out of the mainstream discourse of the topic a while back, basically after the sane among us realized that it really didn't matter.

Since homosexuality isn't harmful or anyone else's business I think the "is it a choice or not" is something of a red herring.
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Old 30th August 2019, 04:51 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Since homosexuality isn't harmful or anyone else's business I think the "is it a choice or not" is something of a red herring.
Some Christians believe that it IS harmful, by being sinful.
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Old 30th August 2019, 05:00 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Some Christians believe that it IS harmful, by being sinful.
Yeah well they also believe the Earth was created a few thousand years after the Sumerians learned how to brew beer so...
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Old 30th August 2019, 05:02 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah well they also believe the Earth was created a few thousand years after the Sumerians learned how to brew beer so...
That they're wrong is irrelevant: their beliefs affects policy. Mocking the belief may be fun for us but it won't change their minds. We have to find something that breaks their beliefs that it's a sin. And that there's a VERY clear line in the bible that says homosexuals are an abomination in the eyes of god makes it that much harder.
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Old 30th August 2019, 05:07 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That they're wrong is irrelevant: their beliefs affects policy. Mocking the belief may be fun for us but it won't change their minds. We have to find something that breaks their beliefs that it's a sin. And that there's a VERY clear line in the bible that says homosexuals are an abomination in the eyes of god makes it that much harder.
Yeah, but loads of them are eating shellfish and wearing mixed cloth, so...
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Old 30th August 2019, 05:13 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I kind felt like the "gay is a choice or not" kind of feel out of the mainstream discourse of the topic a while back, basically after the sane among us realized that it really didn't matter.

Since homosexuality isn't harmful or anyone else's business I think the "is it a choice or not" is something of a red herring.
I agree. While causes of things are of academic interest they aren't that important outside of the context of problem-solving. So if you don't see homosexuality as a problem that needs solving what ultimately causes it isn't terribly interesting.

I like strawberries and dislike pears. I prefer hot weather to cold. I like less clutter in my house than most. I like other dudes sexually. All of these preferences are real, and I live my life accordingly so they are of varying degrees of importance to me but I don't need a backstory to explain them or science to justify them or other people's agreement and approval. Finding out there's a strawberry-preference gene won't make me eat more or fewer strawberries. So long as nobody tries to outlaw strawberries it doesn't matter.

A scientific proof of the cause of homosexuality is as functionally important as a religious revelation against it if you are committed to living in a free society.
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Old 30th August 2019, 05:19 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Some Christians believe that it IS harmful, by being sinful.
Whereby they inadvertently prove themselves to be more influenced by reason than religion: they're actually agreeing that if homosexuality is not a choice then the gays should not be blamed for it, despite what they think their God says. They are agreeing it is irrational to punish the innocent, and therefore tacitly admitting they would defy their own deity if he were demonstrated to hold irrational prejudices. Reason is higher than God, even for the devout. Which is highly encouraging! Humans, however backwards and foolish they are, simply can't stop themselves from rationality. It's a habit impossible to completely break.
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Old 30th August 2019, 05:28 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Some Christians believe that it IS harmful, by being sinful.
And of course the thing that makes it a sin is that it is so harmful. Makes perfect sense.

Like how being attracted to the same sex makes you attracted to the same sex.
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Old 30th August 2019, 05:29 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by That19Guy View Post
... Just know that nothing in your chemical composition led you to that life, but rather the interest in that life led to the changes in your chemical composition.
Let's hear it for Lamarck!
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Old 30th August 2019, 05:43 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
And of course the thing that makes it a sin is that it is so harmful.
No. What makes it sinful is that it is against god's wishes. That's what sinful means.
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Old 30th August 2019, 05:46 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by That19Guy View Post
If you go to a batting cage everyday for a month you will become better at hitting a baseball.

I think you have misunderstood the phrase "practicing homosexual".
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Old 30th August 2019, 05:59 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
I think you have misunderstood the phrase "practicing homosexual".
Gay priests?
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Old 30th August 2019, 06:35 AM   #78
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Gender is a confluence of multiple genes and various environmental factors, like arachnophobia or being a chronic over-achiever. Hence all the variations, 50 shades of gray I guess. More if you start breaking out pixels.

Most diseases are multi-genic. There is no one "heart disease gene" or "cancer gene". The question is, is there ONE gene that causes YOUR cancer? And can you do anything with that knowledge?
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Old 30th August 2019, 06:38 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by That19Guy View Post
You have control over it because you have control over your DNA
What is your evidence for this claim?
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Old 30th August 2019, 06:55 AM   #80
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We used to have a better class of "diversity of views" around here.

Come back lifegazer and Interesting Ian, all is forgiven.
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