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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , church scandals , George Pell , roman catholic church , sex scandals

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Old 28th September 2020, 07:48 PM   #1721
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Well there you go, Pell is heading back to Rome for reasons not clear, although there is some talk of dirty doings in the treasury. The Cardinal who has been presiding over the churches money has recently resigned. Hard to imagine that these "holy folk" could be capable of "wrong doing" with those sacred funds.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-...ittal/12712604
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Old 29th September 2020, 02:10 PM   #1722
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A bit more detail from 9 news:

Quote:
The Cardinal's return to Rome comes just days after Pope Francis fired one of Pell's most fierce opponents in the Vatican, Cardinal Angelo Becciu, amid an ongoing financial scandal.
In response, Pell "thanks and congratulated" the Pontiff for the move.
"I hope the cleaning of the stables continues in both the Vatican and Victoria," Pell said.

Pell served more than a year in jail before the High Court acquitted him in April this year of molesting two choir boys in the late 1990s when he was archbishop of Melbourne. (AP/AAP)
Becciu said he was fired after Francis told him that documents from the Italian financial police alleged the 72-year-old cardinal had embezzled 100,000 euros ($165,280)
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Old 29th September 2020, 08:46 PM   #1723
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Meanwhile, in non-Pell related news:

Senior Catholic William Wade sentenced for concealing child sex abuse at Marist schools

Quote:
The first senior Catholic to plead guilty to concealing child sexual abuse in Australia has escaped jail despite a judge acknowledging his "reprehensible" inaction contributed to "terrible consequences".

William Wade admitted to failing to provide information to police during a 2014 investigation into abuse at Marist schools in the 1970s.

Wade's roles at Marist Brothers schools included headmaster at Hamilton, in Newcastle, and Kogarah, in Sydney, alongside convicted child sex offenders Darcy O'Sullivan, known as Brother Dominic, and Francis Cable, known as Brother Romuald.

Wade, who was known as Brother Christopher, had previously been convicted and jailed for child sexual abuse.
There can no longer be any denying that the cover-up of sexual abuse by the Catholic clergy is institutional and systemic, and has been going on for a long time.
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Old 30th September 2020, 01:26 AM   #1724
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Well there you go, Pell is heading back to Rome for reasons not clear, although there is some talk of dirty doings in the treasury. The Cardinal who has been presiding over the churches money has recently resigned. Hard to imagine that these "holy folk" could be capable of "wrong doing" with those sacred funds.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-...ittal/12712604
I wonder who approved his travel out of Australia. I would not be surprised if Abbott’s fingerprints are all over the document.

For those unaware, the government is preventing people from travelling overseas to, for example, farewell terminally ill family members. How can Pell get a pass for wishing to bathe in the eminence of the “Holy Father”?
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Old 30th September 2020, 01:38 AM   #1725
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I wonder who approved his travel out of Australia. I would not be surprised if Abbott’s fingerprints are all over the document.

For those unaware, the government is preventing people from travelling overseas to, for example, farewell terminally ill family members. How can Pell get a pass for wishing to bathe in the eminence of the “Holy Father”?
Nothing to do with Abbott.
Quote:
Cardinal George Pell did not need to apply for a travel exemption to leave Australia because he is travelling to Rome for official Vatican government business.
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...lias-covid-ban
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Old 30th September 2020, 01:54 AM   #1726
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Ah, he's a fifth columnist
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Old 30th September 2020, 02:27 AM   #1727
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Know what? That makes it even worse. Official government business for a theocracy you can walk completely around in about an hour? Can someone go to North Korea claiming they had official government business there? Probably.

Whoever drafted those list of exemptions or rubber stamped Pell should be sacked.

And, of course, the real reason he has pissed off is so that he won’t be extradited when more of his crimes are prosecuted. **** off Pell.
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Old 1st October 2020, 01:35 AM   #1728
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The church says Pell is in the Vatican on a private visit. There has been some Catholic interference in this matter, and I do not dismiss Abbott being involved.

https://www.news.com.au/world/breaki...8b8dc3d03e39dd

Quote:
A church spokesperson told media on Tuesday Pell would fly from Sydney on a “private visit”.
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Old 1st October 2020, 01:01 PM   #1729
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Oh, shut up already.

Quote:
ROCKVILLE CENTRE, N.Y. – A Roman Catholic diocese in New York City’s suburbs has become the largest in the U.S. to declare bankruptcy to protect itself from a wave of lawsuits filed over past sexual abuse by clergy members.

The Diocese of Rockville Centre filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on Thursday. It is the eighth largest diocese or archdiocese in the U.S., serving more than 1.4 million Catholics on Long Island . . .

“The financial burden of the litigation has been severe and only compounded by the COVID-19 pandemic,” Bishop John Barres, the spiritual leader of the diocese that serves 1.4 million Catholics on Long Island, said in a video posted on the diocese’s website . . .

“What became clear was that the diocese was not going to be able to carry out its spiritual, charitable and educational missions if it were to continue to shoulder the increasingly heavy burden of litigation expenses associated with these cases,” Barres said.
If only there had been some way to nip this thing in the bud . . .
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Old 1st October 2020, 03:23 PM   #1730
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Oh, shut up already.



If only there had been some way to nip this thing in the bud . . .

Tears at your heartstrings doesn't it? That the church has to cope with: "the increasingly heavy burden of litigation expenses".

It would seem this is impacting on the churches ability to attend to the indoctrination educational needs as well as charitable functions.
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Old 2nd October 2020, 08:40 AM   #1731
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Oh, shut up already.



If only there had been some way to nip this thing in the bud . . .
That omni-dude who's supposed to be really in charge seems to have been fine with the abuse
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Old 2nd October 2020, 09:10 AM   #1732
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Tears at your heartstrings doesn't it? That the church has to cope with: "the increasingly heavy burden of litigation expenses".

It would seem this is impacting on the churches ability to attend to the indoctrination educational needs as well as charitable functions.
Oh man, we are having to pay the consequences for all that bad behavior we enabled over the years! Woe is us!
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Old 2nd October 2020, 01:59 PM   #1733
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
That omni-dude who's supposed to be really in charge seems to have been fine with the abuse

Perhaps we need to add omni-indifference to the list.
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Old 2nd October 2020, 02:05 PM   #1734
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Perhaps we need to add omni-indifference to the list.
Nah. Omni-nonexistance.
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Old 3rd October 2020, 01:59 PM   #1735
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This is an intriguing little snippet from "The Herald Sun":

Quote:
Shock report in Italy's prestigious Corriera della Sera: documents liked to Cardinal Angelo Becciu, fired last week for corruption, show $1.1 million was sent to Australia to people so far unnamed.
Be interesting to know who in Australia received the money and why it was sent.

Did this precipitate the sacking of Becciu we might ask?

This could be another chapter in the story of the churches decline. If money was sent to persons opposed to Pell in Australia then Pell's supporters would be pissed. The thought of their tithes being given to opposers of their favourite guy might be just too much for some of the faithful. We watch on with interest.
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Last edited by Thor 2; 3rd October 2020 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 14th October 2020, 02:32 PM   #1736
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Just keeping up to date with Pell's manoeuvrings:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...buse-acquittal

Quote:
“His meeting with Pell today, coming amid a wave of recent financial corruption allegations at the Vatican, will be welcomed as a clear show of Francis’s support for Pell’s efforts as well as a thorough vindication for Pell himself.”
I wonder if the "thorough vindication" includes the covering up of sex abuse and personal sex abuse by Pell himself?
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Old 20th October 2020, 02:30 PM   #1737
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https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/...21-p566zf.html

Victorian and Federal police asked to investigate allegations funds from The Vatican were used to influence the case against Pell. All be interesting to see how this pans out. I see Pell supporters grabbing the idea with both hands - that Pell was framed that is.

Meanwhile:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/wor...0547b475cf81e8

Quote:
George Pell has conducted a public mass in Rome celebrating the 10th anniversary of the canonisation of Mother Mary MacKillop, Australia’s first saint.

I suspect Pell may have had ambitions of becoming a saint himself some years ago.
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Old 20th October 2020, 02:35 PM   #1738
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
I suspect Pell may have had ambitions of becoming a saint himself some years ago.
It was certainly a miracle that he was acquitted.
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Old 20th October 2020, 03:28 PM   #1739
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
It was certainly a miracle that he was acquitted.
On reflection, I think it strange he was found guilty. The evidence was from one person who said what happened when he was a child with no supporting evidence and some evidence that he was wrong.

Pell is probably guilty of something to do with child abuse, but that is not a reason to find him guilty of that offense.
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Old 21st October 2020, 02:17 PM   #1740
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
On reflection, I think it strange he was found guilty. The evidence was from one person who said what happened when he was a child with no supporting evidence and some evidence that he was wrong.

Pell is probably guilty of something to do with child abuse, but that is not a reason to find him guilty of that offense.

I have pondered this too. One has to wonder how the evidence of one witness (the abused) can be so compelling. Mind you the very low credibility of Pell would play a significant part I. Although jurors are not supposed to consider information not presented as evidence, it's a very big ask to expect this of them. They would have been aware of the number of other charges Pell had been accused of, that due to lack of evidence after time, were not pursued by the police. Pell's appalling responses, when giving evidence before the commission, would certainly damage his credibility also.
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Old 21st October 2020, 03:45 PM   #1741
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Pope Francis pushes new boundaries and expresses support for same-sex civil unions

Quote:
Pope Francis has broken with tradition in a new documentary released this week by expressing support for same-sex civil unions, in some of the clearest language he has used in relation to the rights of LGBTQ people.

"Homosexual people have a right to be in a family," he says in the documentary, Francesco, by Oscar-nominated director Evgeny Afineevsky.

"They are children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it.

"What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered. I stood up for that," he said.

When he was archbishop of Buenos Aires, Pope Francis opposed legislation to approve same sex marriage but supported legal protections for the rights of gay couples.
This is not enough. This is not equality. Civil unions for homosexual couples while reserving marriage for heterosexual couples is not equality, it is one law for one group of people and a different law for a different group of people. Unless civil unions are functionally identical in every way to marriage, in which case why the distinction?
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Old 21st October 2020, 05:44 PM   #1742
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Pope Francis pushes new boundaries and expresses support for same-sex civil unions

This is not enough. This is not equality. Civil unions for homosexual couples while reserving marriage for heterosexual couples is not equality, it is one law for one group of people and a different law for a different group of people. Unless civil unions are functionally identical in every way to marriage, in which case why the distinction?
I'm no great friend of the Pope but is this not at least a step in the right direction? How many Catholics will vilify him for this? How many leave the Church? This is "worse" than demoting the Latin Mass and see what problems that caused.
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Old 21st October 2020, 05:58 PM   #1743
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Pope Francis pushes new boundaries and expresses support for same-sex civil unions

This is not enough. This is not equality. Civil unions for homosexual couples while reserving marriage for heterosexual couples is not equality, it is one law for one group of people and a different law for a different group of people. Unless civil unions are functionally identical in every way to marriage, in which case why the distinction?

Dead right and I feel Francis has his arm held behind his back.
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Old 21st October 2020, 06:07 PM   #1744
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
I'm no great friend of the Pope but is this not at least a step in the right direction? How many Catholics will vilify him for this? How many leave the Church? This is "worse" than demoting the Latin Mass and see what problems that caused.

He is between the proverbial rock and a hard place on this. Whatever he does or doesn't do he is in trouble. A church that cannot keep up with social change is in trouble with a progressive flock, and a church that does not adhere to its own scripture is in trouble with the conservatives.
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Old 21st October 2020, 06:15 PM   #1745
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
He is between the proverbial rock and a hard place on this. Whatever he does or doesn't do he is in trouble. A church that cannot keep up with social change is in trouble with a progressive flock, and a church that does not adhere to its own scripture is in trouble with the conservatives.
Standing by for a schism in three, two, one . . . .
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Old 21st October 2020, 06:50 PM   #1746
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
I'm no great friend of the Pope but is this not at least a step in the right direction? How many Catholics will vilify him for this? How many leave the Church? This is "worse" than demoting the Latin Mass and see what problems that caused.
The concession that homosexuals deserve a family is a step in the right direction. But civil unions is a step sideways, in my opinion.
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Old 22nd October 2020, 12:27 AM   #1747
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Pope Francis pushes new boundaries and expresses support for same-sex civil unions

This is not enough. This is not equality. Civil unions for homosexual couples while reserving marriage for heterosexual couples is not equality, it is one law for one group of people and a different law for a different group of people. Unless civil unions are functionally identical in every way to marriage, in which case why the distinction?
For a pope encouraging words however I suspect this will be usual for this pope's "progressive" words - not followed up by any actual change.
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Old 22nd October 2020, 12:29 AM   #1748
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Dead right and I feel Francis has his arm held behind his back.
BDSM?
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Old 22nd October 2020, 06:21 AM   #1749
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Pope Francis pushes new boundaries and expresses support for same-sex civil unions

This is not enough. This is not equality. Civil unions for homosexual couples while reserving marriage for heterosexual couples is not equality, it is one law for one group of people and a different law for a different group of people. Unless civil unions are functionally identical in every way to marriage, in which case why the distinction?
And why suddenly this fight against calling civil marriages that do not fit with in church doctrine like after divorce something other than marriage?

Or is he proposing some kind of new sacrament of civil union?
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