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Tags Kyle Rittenhouse , murder cases

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Old 19th October 2020, 11:03 AM   #321
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Care to make this prediction interesting? Avatar bet, perhaps?
The probation part is implausible to say the least. Unless they find a judge and prosecutor that really likes riots or at best just ending up infamous.

They will take it to a jury and lose before they offer that. Put that blame elsewhere.
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Old 19th October 2020, 11:09 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
The probation part is implausible to say the least. Unless they find a judge and prosecutor that really likes riots or at best just ending up infamous.

They will take it to a jury and lose before they offer that. Put that blame elsewhere.
Yeah, he's going to be doing some time, I'd wager. Whether it is lenient, fair, or excessive remains to be seen. But I don't see a way that these circumstances would get him off with a slap. Killing mother ******* on the street tends to get you some time in the pokey on one count or the other.
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Old 19th October 2020, 10:19 PM   #323
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BREAKING NEWS:
Prosecutors have charged Joshua Zaminski with "disorderly conduct" for firing a handgun in the general direction of Rittenhouse (while Kyle was running away & trying to evade further contact with JoJo).

"Alex Blaine" was the name I heard used, and it turns out to be an alias for Zaminski.

The only way anything related to this thug will turn out to be a bombshell is if the coroner's report shows that a round from his gun was in Rosenbaum's back.

But this will never be proven, because this defendant claims that gun was stolen from his house just a few days before the police showed up to arrest him.

These biker thugs thought Kyle was a soft target, due to his young age and separation from his group, who wouldn't have the nuts to pull the trigger. oopsies...
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Old 19th October 2020, 10:28 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
BREAKING NEWS:
Prosecutors have charged Joshua Zaminski with "disorderly conduct" for firing a handgun in the general direction of Rittenhouse (while Kyle was running away & trying to evade further contact with JoJo).

"Alex Blaine" was the name I heard used, and it turns out to be an alias for Zaminski.

The only way anything related to this thug will turn out to be a bombshell is if the coroner's report shows that a round from his gun was in Rosenbaum's back.

But this will never be proven, because this defendant claims that gun was stolen from his house just a few days before the police showed up to arrest him.

These biker thugs thought Kyle was a soft target, due to his young age and separation from his group, who wouldn't have the nuts to pull the trigger. oopsies...
I have it on good authority that The Purge was in effect, and there was no Law, so they'll have to drop the charge. Ya can't break the law if there is no law, can I get an amen?
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Old 19th October 2020, 10:39 PM   #325
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"The Purge was in effect" -- as it happens, kinda yeah, these sociopathic criminals were fully aware that Kenosha PD was standing down and the National Guard was a paper tiger.
When Police protection is withdrawn, citizens are left to fend for themselves.
Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters?


Have you even seen mention of this part of the scene in the MSM prior to this arrest? I sure haven't.
I was just wondering what the deal was with all the gunfire heard in the videos that was not coming from Kyle (I'm sure you noticed after Gaige was disarmed, shots ring out at the location from which Kyle fled). We still have not gotten a proper answer to that, but at least I managed to discover a black biker gang member who was seminally involved with the effort to take away Kyle's nice, expensive AR15, and leave him for dead in the car lot.

Last edited by webfusion; 19th October 2020 at 10:52 PM. Reason: Who else was shooting that night?
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Old 19th October 2020, 10:43 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
"The Purge was in effect" -- as it happens, kinda yeah, these sociopathic criminals were fully aware that Kenosha PD was standing down and the National Guard was a paper tiger.
When Police protection is withdrawn, citizens are left to fend for themselves.
Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters?




Have you even seen mention of
Quit teasing. You have me on edge.

eta: your eta: haven't heard any of that
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Old 20th October 2020, 04:12 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
BREAKING NEWS:
Prosecutors have charged Joshua Zaminski with "disorderly conduct" for firing a handgun in the general direction of Rittenhouse (while Kyle was running away & trying to evade further contact with JoJo).

"Alex Blaine" was the name I heard used, and it turns out to be an alias for Zaminski.

The only way anything related to this thug will turn out to be a bombshell is if the coroner's report shows that a round from his gun was in Rosenbaum's back.

But this will never be proven, because this defendant claims that gun was stolen from his house just a few days before the police showed up to arrest him.

These biker thugs thought Kyle was a soft target, due to his young age and separation from his group, who wouldn't have the nuts to pull the trigger. oopsies...
No need to spin conspiracy theories. Kyle shot people with a rifle, and this guy is charged with discharging a pistol. Unless the bodies of Kyle's victims are found with pistol bullets in them, it's safe to assume it was Kyle's rifle fire that killed them.

It is trivially easy to determine who shot Rosenbaum in this situation, nor do I think anyone is even disputing the fact that Kyle solely caused these deaths. The charging documents includes details from a preliminary medical exam of Rosenbaum and details his various gunshot wounds, all of which are consistent with being shot at close range by Rittenhouse.
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Old 20th October 2020, 05:50 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
BREAKING NEWS:
(while Kyle was running away & trying to evade further contact with JoJo).

.
(While Kyle, who had just shot someone, was running through a crowd still in possession of that weapon)

Where, oh where, are the "good guy with a gun" proponents? The whole point of that stuff is that these good people can stop a maniac with a gun before he kills more people.
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Old 20th October 2020, 05:55 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
No need to spin conspiracy theories. Kyle shot people with a rifle, and this guy is charged with discharging a pistol. Unless the bodies of Kyle's victims are found with pistol bullets in them, it's safe to assume it was Kyle's rifle fire that killed them.

It is trivially easy to determine who shot Rosenbaum in this situation, nor do I think anyone is even disputing the fact that Kyle solely caused these deaths. The charging documents includes details from a preliminary medical exam of Rosenbaum and details his various gunshot wounds, all of which are consistent with being shot at close range by Rittenhouse.
So, until this post of mine, you've never heard of Alex Blaine/Zaminski? OK, fair enough.
I noticed throughout this thread you've provided much false and uninformed narrative, starting with post #23. (putting blame on "white supremacists" "undesirables" "Back the Blue bootlicker" and "those looking for an opportunity to commit murder" -- but completely neglecting that the people he shot ALL have violent criminal history, and were glad to fight with cops, and that they and their cohorts clearly decided to take over the streets of Kenosha to cause pain and property losses to the community. In other words, sociopaths. Using BLM as cover for their own violent tendencies and anarchist agendas).

In post #87, you mentioned "Unless there's some evidence showing that the two men were attacking Rittenhouse as accomplices..." --- there is video evidence of exactly that.
Their scheme was to isolate Kyle, take his weapon, turn it on him and leave the young man for dead in the car lot. That plan of theirs almost succeeded, actually. Only the well-trained-in AR15-operations Rittenhouse was able to thwart this effort to end his life.

Within that same post, you offered "It's a big leap to assume the pistol shot was in hostility to Rittenhouse." Leaping lizards!

Oh, and one last thing, regarding the second scene down the street, as Kyle fled towards the Police forces arrayed at the end of the street.
Gaige Grosskreuz KNEW that Kyle was going to the Police and turn himself over to them.
How did he KNOW? He asked him, and Kyle responded directly while he was headed in that direction (I don't have a link to that video segment live-streamed by Gaige himself, but no matter, it's out there for anyone truly interested). Once Kyle ended up on the ground, Gaige decided to "cranium him" and his only regret was not emptying his clip into Kyle right then and there.

From a legal standpoint (self-defense) the question is whether he held a 'reasonable belief' that he was in danger of serious injury from Rosenbaum (or Huber, or Grosskreuz). More and more, the answer to that is a resounding YES.

Oh, and in Post #94, you noted: "Every second that Kyle was on the streets armed was unlawful." So too, the armed presence of several of his antagonists, who were clearly very interested in violence and killing someone. I did not see ANY intent on the part of Kyle Rittenhouse (or any of his fellow Kenosha Guard armed security force) to go into Kenosha with the idea to hunt people or aim to kill anyone. While guys like Zaminski did.

Last edited by webfusion; 20th October 2020 at 06:01 AM. Reason: added comment on Post 94
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Old 20th October 2020, 06:02 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
So, until this post of mine, you've never heard of Alex Blaine/Zaminski? OK, fair enough.
I noticed throughout this thread you've provided much false and uninformed narrative, starting with post #23. (putting blame on "white supremacists" "undesirables" "Back the Blue bootlicker" and "those looking for an opportunity to commit murder" -- but completely neglecting that the people he shot ALL have violent criminal history, and were glad to fight with cops, and that they and their cohorts clearly decided to take over the streets of Kenosha to cause pain and property losses to the community. In other words, sociopaths. Using BLM as cover for their own violent tendencies and anarchist agendas).

In post #87, you mentioned "Unless there's some evidence showing that the two men were attacking Rittenhouse as accomplices..." --- there is video evidence of exactly that.
Their scheme was to isolate Kyle, take his weapon, turn it on him and leave the young man for dead in the car lot. That plan of theirs almost succeeded, actually. Only the well-trained-in AR15-operations Rittenhouse was able to thwart this effort to end his life.

Within that same post, you offered "It's a big leap to assume the pistol shot was in hostility to Rittenhouse." Leaping lizards!

Oh, and one last thing, regarding the second scene down the street, as Kyle fled towards the Police forces arrayed at the end of the street.
Gaige Grosskreuz KNEW that Kyle was going to the Police and turn himself over to them.
How did he KNOW? He asked him, and Kyle responded directly while he was headed in that direction (I don't have a link to that video segment live-streamed by Gaige himself, but no matter, it's out there for anyone truly interested). Once Kyle ended up on the ground, Gaige decided to "cranium him" and his only regret was not emptying his clip into Kyle right then and there.

From a legal standpoint (self-defense) the question is whether he held a 'reasonable belief' that he was in danger of serious injury from Rosenbaum (or Huber, or Grosskreuz). More and more, the answer to that is a resounding YES.

Oh, and in Post #94, you noted: "Every second that Kyle was on the streets armed was unlawful." So too, the armed presence of several of his antagonists, who were clearly very interested in violence and killing someone.
It's going to be a long shot legal defense to claim that gunning down unarmed Rosenbaum was justified because some guy not involved in the scuffle shot a round in the air from across a parking lot. This other man is notably not charged with any kind of assault, but rather a misdemeanor for illegally discharging a gun into the air.

To be honest, I think Kyle's legal defense would be better off not even mentioning this. He killed Rosenbaum, so he had best stick to explaining why Rosenbaum, not some rando popping off rounds into the air somewhere else, was an immediate threat justifying lethal force. Saying he got scared because of a gunshot at a riot and started blasting is not a good move.

So are you just making up nonsense about a second shooter wounding Rosenbaum? I'm not seeing anyone actually claim this anywhere, is this just a fiction from your mind?

There is nothing to indicate Kyle is well trained. Killing unarmed people at close range with a rifle doesn't require much skill. School shooters and other murderers like Kyle often manage to kill heaps of unarmed people with little to no training.
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Old 20th October 2020, 06:13 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
(While Kyle, who had just shot someone, was running through a crowd still in possession of that weapon)

Where, oh where, are the "good guy with a gun" proponents? The whole point of that stuff is that these good people can stop a maniac with a gun before he kills more people.
You are mixing up two different scenes.

And there is a live streaming video of Gaige Grosskreuz literally following Kyle as he makes his way calmly but quickly and deliberately to the Police forces at the end of the street, and Gaige was asking what his intentions are --- and Kyle says he's going to get the cops.

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Old 20th October 2020, 06:22 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
You are mixing up two different scenes.

And there is a live streaming video of Gaige Grosskreuz literally following Kyle as he makes his way calmly but quickly and deliberately to the Police forces at the end of the street, and Gaige was asking what his intentions are --- and Kyle says he's going to get the cops.
Interesting you see it that way. I predict that the testimony of Grosskreuz will be pivotal in getting a guilty verdict for the murder of Huber and the other crimes committed during the second set of shootings. As one of the few victims that survived, he will be able to speak to motive, and explain why he attempted to apprehend Rittenhouse (and notably did not fire his weapon while doing so).

He seems to have clammed up pending the trial, which is the proper thing to do.

Only time and court testimony will tell. Not much point in theorizing until then.
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Old 20th October 2020, 06:35 AM   #333
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Interesting article with details I hadn't seen before.

Rosenbaum was homeless and living on the streets. He had been discharged from the hospital that day and seems to have largely got wrapped up in the riot by chance.

Quote:
Rosenbaum had never attended a protest, and seemed caught up in this one almost by accident. He carried a clear plastic bag containing a deodorant stick, underwear and socks that the hospital had given him upon discharge following his suicide attempt. In the seconds before he was shot, Rosenbaum threw the plastic bag at Rittenhouse and chased him behind some parked cars.
Rosenbaum's only weapon was a hobo sack with some personal items in it. Looking forward to Kyle's attorney explaining why it was necessary to shoot this man.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...s/?arc404=true

Our brave anti-looting hero shot dead a homeless, mentally ill man that had the misfortune of living on the streets during a riot.

Quote:
Huber was part of the crowd at the gas station trying to calm Rosenbaum down after a self-styled militia member pointed his gun at the protesters. And he was standing just down the street from the car dealership when Rittenhouse fired the shots that killed Rosenbaum.

Quote:
She had watched the video of Huber’s final moments before he was shot. The hardest part was seeing how close Huber got to wresting the gun from Rittenhouse in the split second before he was killed. “He almost got it away from him,” Gittings said.
Real heroic stuff, unlike these milita guys that just wanted to parade around with their guns and maybe get an opportunity to kill people.

Numerous claims of militia people pointing guns at protestors throughout the night. I'm sure Kyle being part of a self-appointed vigilante mob that was brandishing weapons will help his self-defense claim /s
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Old 20th October 2020, 06:38 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post

Only time and court testimony will tell. Not much point in theorizing until then.
Well, except that circulating these theories and creative framings of fact can, when unchecked, guide public discourse towards a sympathetic narrative that could affect the legal proceedings.

In a case like this a criminal defense with deep pockets and little regard for ethics would spend most of their money on hiring publicists and other means to this end.

While playing a stalling game to allow this before the substantive parts of the legal case. Like a frivolous extradition battle.

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Old 20th October 2020, 06:46 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
Well, except that circulating these theories and creative framings of fact can, when unchecked, guide public discourse towards a sympathetic narrative that could affect the legal proceedings.

In a case like this a criminal defense with deep pockets and little regard for ethics would spend most of their money on hiring publicists and other means to this end.

While playing a stalling game to allow this before the substantive parts of the legal case. Like a frivolous extradition battle.
It's a multiple felony case topped with a murder, it's going to be a long process as both sides try to get their case perfect. Covid won't help either.

Even under better circumstances, felony murder cases don't move fast.
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Old 20th October 2020, 07:01 AM   #336
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Old 20th October 2020, 07:02 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's a multiple felony case topped with a murder, it's going to be a long process as both sides try to get their case perfect. Covid won't help either.

Even under better circumstances, felony murder cases don't move fast.
Sure. But stalling it out by a drawn out pointless extradition challenge keeps it completely off the radar. His being brought back and arraigned, etc., would draw attention. Setting pre-trial and trial dates would give it some temporal framework. The nuts and bolts of extradition proceedings are tedious and boring and can be indefinite.

Public issue fatigue and public discourse manipulation are the most effective defense tools in this case. This is a stalling tactic less obvious than moving for continuances.
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Old 20th October 2020, 07:04 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
Sure. But stalling it out by a drawn out pointless extradition challenge keeps it completely off the radar. His being brought back and arraigned, etc., would draw attention. Setting pre-trial and trial dates would give it some temporal framework. The nuts and bolts of extradition proceedings are tedious and boring and can be indefinite.

Public issue fatigue and public discourse manipulation are the most effective defense tools in this case. This is a stalling tactic less obvious than moving for continuances.
Part of me wonders if it's just a grift by his lawyers. Fighting pointless battles runs up billable hours, and Kyle's notoriety among the bloodthirsty right wing means there's no shortage of donations coming into the legal defense fund.

Maybe you're right and it's stalling to try to infect the public with a friendly narrative before the trial, but the involvement of LL Wood screams grift.
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Old 20th October 2020, 07:08 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Part of me wonders if it's just a grift by his lawyers. Fighting pointless battles racks of billable hours, and Kyle's notoriety among the bloodthirsty right wing means there's no shortage of donations coming into the legal defense fund.

Maybe you're right and it's stalling to try to infect the public with a friendly narrative before the trial, but the involvement of LL Wood screams grift.
It can be both. Two birds, etc.
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Old 20th October 2020, 10:02 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
So, until this post of mine, you've never heard of Alex Blaine/Zaminski? OK, fair enough.
I noticed throughout this thread you've provided much false and uninformed narrative, starting with post #23. (putting blame on "white supremacists" "undesirables" "Back the Blue bootlicker" and "those looking for an opportunity to commit murder" -- but completely neglecting that the people he shot ALL have violent criminal history, and were glad to fight with cops, and that they and their cohorts clearly decided to take over the streets of Kenosha to cause pain and property losses to the community. In other words, sociopaths. Using BLM as cover for their own violent tendencies and anarchist agendas).

In post #87, you mentioned "Unless there's some evidence showing that the two men were attacking Rittenhouse as accomplices..." --- there is video evidence of exactly that.
Their scheme was to isolate Kyle, take his weapon, turn it on him and leave the young man for dead in the car lot. That plan of theirs almost succeeded, actually. Only the well-trained-in AR15-operations Rittenhouse was able to thwart this effort to end his life.

Within that same post, you offered "It's a big leap to assume the pistol shot was in hostility to Rittenhouse." Leaping lizards!

Oh, and one last thing, regarding the second scene down the street, as Kyle fled towards the Police forces arrayed at the end of the street.
Gaige Grosskreuz KNEW that Kyle was going to the Police and turn himself over to them.
How did he KNOW? He asked him, and Kyle responded directly while he was headed in that direction (I don't have a link to that video segment live-streamed by Gaige himself, but no matter, it's out there for anyone truly interested). Once Kyle ended up on the ground, Gaige decided to "cranium him" and his only regret was not emptying his clip into Kyle right then and there.

From a legal standpoint (self-defense) the question is whether he held a 'reasonable belief' that he was in danger of serious injury from Rosenbaum (or Huber, or Grosskreuz). More and more, the answer to that is a resounding YES.

Oh, and in Post #94, you noted: "Every second that Kyle was on the streets armed was unlawful." So too, the armed presence of several of his antagonists, who were clearly very interested in violence and killing someone. I did not see ANY intent on the part of Kyle Rittenhouse (or any of his fellow Kenosha Guard armed security force) to go into Kenosha with the idea to hunt people or aim to kill anyone. While guys like Zaminski did.
That's some serious fan fiction right there.
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Old 20th October 2020, 03:25 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
That's some serious fan fiction right there.
This guy was brandishing a handgun all night long.
This guy has prior convictions.
This guy is a black biker gang member.
He stood right next to JoJo (pink shirt) as he ranted and raved "Shoot me, N^gga" and smiled with an evil grin at the camera.


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Old 20th October 2020, 03:27 PM   #342
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Is there a better picture? Looks more like a phone to me.
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Old 20th October 2020, 03:28 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
This guy is a black biker gang member.
He looks white to me.
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Old 20th October 2020, 05:15 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by Ron Obvious View Post
Is there a better picture? Looks more like a phone to me.
Yeah, there are plenty of video screen grabs with better quality (and different angles of this thug mingling with JoJo and the rest of the mob). However, I assure you he did not shoot towards Kyle running-away-from-JoJo with a phone. Hope that helps.

For William Parcher -- "He looks white to me." Yep. Look up the coterie of Sin City Disciples.

Last edited by webfusion; 20th October 2020 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 20th October 2020, 05:48 PM   #345
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
He looks white to me.
Where's the picture of him?
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Old 20th October 2020, 07:55 PM   #346
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Where's the picture of him?
Post #341.
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Old 20th October 2020, 08:00 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Post #341.
It linked me to a white mountain man looking dude. Is that him?
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Old 20th October 2020, 08:28 PM   #348
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Let me rephrase it --- he is not an African American, he is a Caucasian man who belongs to a predominantly African American outlaw biker group called the 1%'ers.

I have a legal question -- since he fired the first shot out there in the car lot, even though he was not directly in proximity & engaging Kyle face-to-face, would that have any bearing on the defense case?
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Old 24th October 2020, 01:41 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Ron Obvious View Post
Is there a better picture? Looks more like a phone to me.
Both photos look heavily and very badly photoshopped.
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Old 24th October 2020, 02:46 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
Both photos look heavily and very badly photoshopped.
Hah. Look at that index finger on the gun. Totally 'shopped.
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Old 25th October 2020, 05:42 AM   #351
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CamoPants guy was holding/displaying his weapon at various points througout the night; admitted to Police that he fired a 'warning shot' (?) as Kyle ran across the parking lot evading the pursuing JoJo; his identity was first reported as 'Alex Blaine' and later (using his tattoos as reference) revealed to be one Joshua Ziminski, 1%'er biker.

I am skeptical of anyone now saying that these pictures (and the video it was captured from) are inaccurate or 'faked' to insert a gun into his hand. It would be YOUR requirement to provide evidence of that claim regarding these and other photos.

Nevermind, don't waste your time: CamoPantsGuy had a gun, he discharged it in the direction of Kyle and JoJo in the car lot, and yes, he was out there alongside JoJo earlier (which only added to the valid fears Kyle had regarding the need to protect his own life with the AR15 once JoJo started chasing him and attempting to steal the rifle, with CamoPantsGuy opening fire from behind).
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Old 25th October 2020, 09:42 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
CamoPants guy was holding/displaying his weapon at various points througout the night; admitted to Police that he fired a 'warning shot' (?) as Kyle ran across the parking lot evading the pursuing JoJo; his identity was first reported as 'Alex Blaine' and later (using his tattoos as reference) revealed to be one Joshua Ziminski, 1%'er biker.

I am skeptical of anyone now saying that these pictures (and the video it was captured from) are inaccurate or 'faked' to insert a gun into his hand. It would be YOUR requirement to provide evidence of that claim regarding these and other photos.

Nevermind, don't waste your time: CamoPantsGuy had a gun, he discharged it in the direction of Kyle and JoJo in the car lot, and yes, he was out there alongside JoJo earlier (which only added to the valid fears Kyle had regarding the need to protect his own life with the AR15 once JoJo started chasing him and attempting to steal the rifle, with CamoPantsGuy opening fire from behind).
And all that still changes nothing from Ky-Ky's standpoint. Hearing a gunshot from somewhere behind you during a riot does not grant you license to kill.

Rittenhouse was running around alone with a high powered rifle during a riot, that he went out of his way to insert himself into. That is arguably provocation, on it's own. He was not passing through on his way home, or protecting his property. He went far out of his way to arm himself and willingly insert himself into a violent mob. Since he has no law enforcement powers, JoJo and others could arguably see him as a deadly provocateur.

This is by no means an easy one, in any event. But to see it as an open-and-s
hut case of anything is childishly simplistic. No matter which side you favor, the legal ambiguity should be clear.
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Old 26th October 2020, 07:25 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
And all that still changes nothing from Ky-Ky's standpoint. Hearing a gunshot from somewhere behind you during a riot does not grant you license to kill.

Rittenhouse was running around alone with a high powered rifle during a riot, that he went out of his way to insert himself into. That is arguably provocation, on it's own. He was not passing through on his way home, or protecting his property. He went far out of his way to arm himself and willingly insert himself into a violent mob. Since he has no law enforcement powers, JoJo and others could arguably see him as a deadly provocateur.

This is by no means an easy one, in any event. But to see it as an open-and-s
hut case of anything is childishly simplistic. No matter which side you favor, the legal ambiguity should be clear.
That's my take too. Someone firing a warning shot is probably fair game for lethal self defense in response, but the guy shooting isn't the one Kyle killed. The conspiracy theorists are trying to gin up that they were "accomplices", but there's no evidence that they were working in any kind of coordination beyond being at the same protest. That's thin gravy.

It's a bit ironic claiming that some guy popping a round off in the air nearby is justification to open fire when the person has specifically chosen to violate a riot curfew in order to play vigilante.

The case could be made that every single person out that night, including Kyle, was in violation of the curfew order and thus breaking the law from the start. I wonder if such a consideration will come into play for any self-defense claim.
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