General UK politics - Page 81

The Don · 28th January 2022, 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

The problem here is straightforward. The Govt and The Met are fundamentally untrustworthy. They will collaborate at the highest level to ensure the best possible outcome for themselves

How would a factual civil service report about events the police is investigating "prejudice" their investigation?

IMO the issue we have is one of fundamentally not understanding the purpose of the Gray inquiry.

We think it's to investigate the various parties that are alleged to have taken place at various locations during various lockdowns and to identify if there were any breaches of the law, lockdown rules and ministerial code.

As Sue Gray understands it IMO, the purpose of the report is to assuage public anger over "Partygate" by giving the impression that a thorough investigation is being carried out whilst keeping the terms of the investigation and scope of the investigation narrow enough to ensure that no-one of consequence needs to be held to account.

The Met is only involved because they've determined that inaction is more damaging than carrying out an investigation but they too will do their best not to find anything of consequence because it will justify their decision not to investigate in the first place - "See we told you we didn't need to investigate, as you can see we've wasted time, manpower and money investigating these baseless claims"

Captain_Swoop · 28th January 2022, 03:17 AM

It’s misleading to say the National Insurance rise is only 1.25%
NI will rise from 9% to 10.25% … this means that on a £10k earning you will pay £1025 rather than £900

That means that your NÍ bill has gone up by 14%

Captain_Swoop · 28th January 2022, 03:22 AM

Operation Save Greased Weasel is in full force.

Ian Osborne · 28th January 2022, 03:26 AM

I wonder what the odds are of the unredacted Sue Gray report being leaked? Surely there must be a Clive Ponting in Whitehall somewhere?

Captain_Swoop · 28th January 2022, 03:26 AM

You realise we'll have to put up with Tory MP sycophants 'explaining' how policing works today?

Carrot Flower King · 28th January 2022, 03:41 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Well the Met have played an absolute blinder for the government there.

Cressida Dick earning her contract renewal?

jimbob · 28th January 2022, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by Ian Osborne

I wonder what the odds are of the unredacted Sue Gray report being leaked? Surely there must be a Clive Ponting in Whitehall somewhere?

Sarah Vine's ex-husband?

After all, it looks as though Sunak has been caught as well - with his inadvertent attendance of a party.

Darat · 28th January 2022, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Which is actually something of a fair point. Boris Johnson is a nasty, racist, manipulative liar and a buffoon, but he didn't magically appear as leader of the country. The small minded little-Englanders elected his party, and by extension him.

I miss Cameron. I didn't like him one bit but at least he wasn't...this.

Main two differences are that Cameron is not as thick as two planks and has a tiny ember of personal shame remaining.

zooterkin · 28th January 2022, 06:04 AM

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Which is actually something of a fair point. Boris Johnson is a nasty, racist, manipulative liar and a buffoon, but he didn't magically appear as leader of the country. The small minded little-Englanders elected his party, and by extension him.

I miss Cameron. I didn't like him one bit but at least he wasn't...this.

I've seen people elsewhere comment that he's a politician and what do you expect? But in my lifetime I don't recall any politician, let alone a Prime Minister, who has so shamelessly lied, and lied, and lied, as well as being so incompetent and purely interested in holding office for the sake of it and at any cost.

ETA: I should qualify that statement with "in the UK".

jimbob · 28th January 2022, 07:10 AM

But what would a former chief prosecutor know about criminal investigations

Quote:

nazir afzal
@nazirafzal
Normal
12%
This is absolute nonsense from the Met Police
A purely factual report by Sue Gray cannot possibly prejudice a police investigation
They just have to follow the evidence, of which the report will be a part

https://twitter.com/nazirafzal/statu...m4NpK3BitUCqjg

Quote:

Replying to
@nazirafzal
I have had a lot of “requests” in my lifetime & I only sing along when it might be appreciated
The police can “request” whatever they like but we don’t have to sing along
It has no legal force
I “requested” they investigate ages ago and they ignored me too

GlennB · 28th January 2022, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

Cressida Dick earning her contract renewal?

I see that she's 61 now, so maybe another term with The Met and then a cosy spot in The Lords?

Darat · 28th January 2022, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by GlennB

I see that she's 61 now, so maybe another term with The Met and then a cosy spot in The Lords?

I always smile when they mention her in radio and TV, always careful to use her full name, rather than just "Commissioner Dick". No idea why.

MarkCorrigan · 28th January 2022, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

I've seen people elsewhere comment that he's a politician and what do you expect? But in my lifetime I don't recall any politician, let alone a Prime Minister, who has so shamelessly lied, and lied, and lied, as well as being so incompetent and purely interested in holding office for the sake of it and at any cost.

ETA: I should qualify that statement with "in the UK".

Thing is though while all politicians are bound to either lie or have to walk back promises either way, the sheer scope of BoJo's being a ****-up was plain even before he became PM. His ridiculous bollocks-bus during the Brexit fiasco for instance.

The fact is though little Englanders like that he's a slimy bastard, or at least don't care because he echoes their prejudices and that's enough for them and this country is riddled with them.

MarkCorrigan · 28th January 2022, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

I always smile when they mention her in radio and TV, always careful to use her full name, rather than just "Commissioner Dick". No idea why.

Dick by name...

jimbob · 28th January 2022, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Thing is though while all politicians are bound to either lie or have to walk back promises either way, the sheer scope of BoJo's being a ****-up was plain even before he became PM. His ridiculous bollocks-bus during the Brexit fiasco for instance.

The fact is though little Englanders like that he's a slimy bastard, or at least don't care because he echoes their prejudices and that's enough for them and this country is riddled with them.

I think they don't anymore. I have a twitter alt that follows and reports antivaxers and that feed is even more against Johnson than my normal one.

wobs · 28th January 2022, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by jimbob

I think they don't anymore. I have a twitter alt that follows and reports antivaxers and that feed is even more against Johnson than my normal one.

My local Look North news recently read out some emails from viewers with comments like:
"He's the best PM since Churchill"
"He's had such a lot to deal with, I thinl he's donea great job".

GlennB · 28th January 2022, 03:29 PM

It seems we'll get a redacted version of the Gray report pretty soon. Then weeks or months or years will pass before the full version is released.

(Any cynicism in this post is strictly coincidental and not intended to portray the current reality of politics in the UK

)

MarkCorrigan · 28th January 2022, 04:50 PM

Tory sleaze rears its head again, only this time the Met are colluding with them.

Captain_Swoop · 29th January 2022, 03:35 AM

Ukraine: Boris Johnson to call Vladimir Putin and visit region

Boris Johnson will telephone Russian President Vladimir Putin and visit Eastern Europe in the coming days as the UK steps up its diplomatic efforts to resolve the Ukraine border crisis.
No 10 said the PM would repeat the need for Russia to "engage diplomatically" when he spoke to Mr Putin this week.

He would "reiterate the need for Russia to step back", No 10 added.
Mr Johnson has said the UK could deploy troops to protect NATO allies if Russia invaded Ukraine. However, Ukraine is not part of NATO and Russia wants the West to promise it will never join the military alliance, seeing it as a direct threat to its security.

As well as Mr Johnson's visit to the region, Foreign Secretary Liz Truss will visit Moscow in the next two weeks, the Russian Embassy in the UK said.
Mr Johnson has asked military and security chiefs to give him more options to mitigate against what Downing Street has called "growing Russian aggression".

This weekend, the prime minister is considering those options - including the deployment of more British troops to NATO countries in the region.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60179127

Send more troops to help NATO allies?
I bet he wishes the Tories hadn't cut the infantry by almost 20% over the last few years.

Darat · 29th January 2022, 04:05 AM

Sue Grey - oh that’s last week’s news. How can Labour keep going on about a glass of wine at the office when Starma was seen drinking a beer in the office and Johnson is trying to deal with a possible Russian invasion*.

*Not the invasion of London - that one is fine

Captain_Swoop · 29th January 2022, 04:30 AM

Cressida Dick is not new to obstruction
In June last year an inquiry into police corruption over the Daniel Morgan murder:
“blamed Dick personally for obstructing access to documents the panel thought vital”

3 months later Priti Patel extended her contract by 2 years

KDLarsen · 29th January 2022, 04:32 AM

The Gray report is worthless anyway, as one of the Tories inadvertently admitted when the Met opened their investigation, noting that officials were more likely to be forthcoming when speaking to the police than to Gray.

Captain_Swoop · 29th January 2022, 06:23 AM

Memorial Device tweeted
@memorialdevice
·
3h
The state cannot be trusted to investigate itself. Hillsborough. Orgreave. The Pat Finucane case etc. The truth about Bloody Sunday took 40 YEARS to emerge. Hide behind a bogus 'official investigation' and ride-out the outrage. The incumbent administration survives.

If the public campaigning is relentless enough, the truth MAY emerge years later. But the political fallout will then be zero. Nobody is ever held to account. A shrug of the shoulders and a 'we will learn from it'. They do learn from it. They learn to do it again.

Carrot Flower King · 29th January 2022, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Memorial Device tweeted
@memorialdevice
·
3h
The state cannot be trusted to investigate itself. Hillsborough. Orgreave. The Pat Finucane case etc. The truth about Bloody Sunday took 40 YEARS to emerge. Hide behind a bogus 'official investigation' and ride-out the outrage. The incumbent administration survives.

If the public campaigning is relentless enough, the truth MAY emerge years later. But the political fallout will then be zero. Nobody is ever held to account. A shrug of the shoulders and a 'we will learn from it'. They do learn from it. They learn to do it again.

Yes, Minister/Prime Minister was a documentary...Sir Humphrey lives on.

catsmate · 29th January 2022, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by wobs

My local Look North news recently read out some emails from viewers with comments like:
"He's the best PM since Churchill"
"He's had such a lot to deal with, I thinl he's donea great job".

Damned with faint praise.

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Ukraine: Boris Johnson to call Vladimir Putin and visit region

Boris Johnson will telephone Russian President Vladimir Putin and visit Eastern Europe in the coming days as the UK steps up its diplomatic efforts to resolve the Ukraine border crisis.
No 10 said the PM would repeat the need for Russia to "engage diplomatically" when he spoke to Mr Putin this week.

He would "reiterate the need for Russia to step back", No 10 added.
Mr Johnson has said the UK could deploy troops to protect NATO allies if Russia invaded Ukraine. However, Ukraine is not part of NATO and Russia wants the West to promise it will never join the military alliance, seeing it as a direct threat to its security.

As well as Mr Johnson's visit to the region, Foreign Secretary Liz Truss will visit Moscow in the next two weeks, the Russian Embassy in the UK said.
Mr Johnson has asked military and security chiefs to give him more options to mitigate against what Downing Street has called "growing Russian aggression".

This weekend, the prime minister is considering those options - including the deployment of more British troops to NATO countries in the region.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60179127

Send more troops to help NATO allies?
I bet he wishes the Tories hadn't cut the infantry by almost 20% over the last few years.

"What this country needs is a short, victorious war to stem the tide of revolution."

P.J. Denyer · 29th January 2022, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Sue Grey - oh that’s last week’s news. How can Labour keep going on about a glass of wine at the office when Starma was seen drinking a beer in the office and Johnson is trying to deal with a possible Russian invasion*.

*Not the invasion of London - that one is fine

Their incursion into the House of Lords & corporate takeover of Tory Central Office don't seem to have caused much of a stir either.

Captain_Swoop · 29th January 2022, 11:43 AM

David Schneider tweeted
@davidschneider
·
3h
Maybe if you’re Rishi Sunak and your wife’s richer than the Queen, it doesn’t seem that big a deal to write off £4.3bn in fraud even in a country with more food banks than McDonalds.

Captain_Swoop · 29th January 2022, 01:25 PM

Memorial Device tweeted
@memorialdevice
·
8 hours after our tweet: ‘we must learn from the past’
Quote Tweet
Boris Johnson
@BorisJohnson
United Kingdom government official
· 2h
Tomorrow marks a tragic day in our history, the 50th anniversary of Bloody Sunday. This was one of the darkest days of the Troubles. We must learn from the past, reconcile, and build a peaceful future for people in Northern Ireland.

Carrot Flower King · 30th January 2022, 04:52 AM

Of course BlowJob did nothing, absolutely nothing I tell you, wrong or potentially criminal when he was shagging Jennifer Arcuri (who was he married to at the time?)...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-boris-johnson

Darat · 30th January 2022, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

Of course BlowJob did nothing, absolutely nothing I tell you, wrong or potentially criminal when he was shagging Jennifer Arcuri (who was he married to at the time?)...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-boris-johnson

Sue Gray will have to look into that as Johnson of course can't remember.

ohms · 30th January 2022, 07:05 AM

Our Foreign Secretary said today that the UK will offer extra support "into our [b]Baltic/[b] allies across the Black Sea".

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/stat...29051271843842

Good to see that she's maintaining the recent tradition of being unencumbered by knowledge.

jimbob · 30th January 2022, 10:44 AM

https://twitter.com/annietrev/status...63659212869637

Quote:

Anne-Marie Trevelyan
@annietrev
Normal
1%
Excited to start negotiations with Greenland on a continuity Free Trade Agreement.
A �� FTA could reduce tariffs on fish & seafood imports from Greenland, supporting key businesses like supermarkets & hospitality & catering firms
Trade = growth = jobs

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/s...nd-trade-talks

Yes you read that correctly.

Quote:

Background:
In 2020, total UK trade with Greenland amounted to £10 million, and DIT estimates that a further £49 million of coldwater shrimp coming into the UK predominantly originated from Greenland that same year.

A country with about half the population of a UK Parliamentary constituency.

jimbob · 30th January 2022, 10:46 AM

Meanwhile to offset this, I make it that since Thursday we have found that the government has wasted £7Bn.

£4.3Bn in fraudulent Covid loans written off
£2.7Bn in PPE purchased that needs to be written off.

P.J. Denyer · 30th January 2022, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

David Schneider tweeted
@davidschneider
·
3h
Maybe if you’re Rishi Sunak and your wife’s richer than the Queen, it doesn’t seem that big a deal to write off £4.3bn in fraud even in a country with more food banks than McDonalds.

Rishi Rich has lost more than that down the back of the sofa.

P.J. Denyer · 30th January 2022, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by jimbob

Meanwhile to offset this, I make it that since Thursday we have found that the government has wasted £7Bn.

£4.3Bn in fraudulent Covid loans written off
£2.7Bn in PPE purchased that needs to be written off.

"The Party of Fiscal Responsibility"...

Carrot Flower King · 30th January 2022, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by jimbob

https://twitter.com/annietrev/status...63659212869637

Yes you read that correctly.

A country with about half the population of a UK Parliamentary constituency.

She's my sodding MP: even going back to when she was the Tory PPC I reckoned she was a talent-free zone (part of my calling her Tory Girl goes back to those times, as her blether was soooooo reminiscent of Harry Enfield's Hague spoof), but that hasn't stopped some of the eejits round here voting for her.

Captain_Swoop · 30th January 2022, 01:01 PM

Sky News - Trevor Phillips On Sunday

Phillips - Everybody is going to be hit with a 10% increase in National Insurance... 6 weeks shopping, then a £600 increase in energy prices, 12 weeks shopping, where are people going to find that money from?

Liz Truss - We have the fastest growing economy in the G7.

Captain_Swoop · 30th January 2022, 01:03 PM

Also it's a lie. In the last quarter of 2021 UK economic growth was 5th not 1st.

Captain_Swoop · 30th January 2022, 02:18 PM

David Schneider tweeted
@davidschneider
Good to hear that the Tories are going to clamp down on Russian money. Perhaps they could start with the £1.9m given to Tories since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.

Captain_Swoop · 31st January 2022, 06:21 AM

Boris Johnson now has the redacted Sue Gray report into No 10 parties.

Cabinet Office spokesperson: "We can confirm that Sue Gray has provided an update on her investigations to the Prime Minister."

28th January 2022, 03:26 AM	#3204
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,468	I wonder what the odds are of the unredacted Sue Gray report being leaked? Surely there must be a Clive Ponting in Whitehall somewhere?
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

28th January 2022, 03:52 AM	#3207
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 25,611	Originally Posted by Ian Osborne I wonder what the odds are of the unredacted Sue Gray report being leaked? Surely there must be a Clive Ponting in Whitehall somewhere? Sarah Vine's ex-husband? After all, it looks as though Sunak has been caught as well - with his inadvertent attendance of a party.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

28th January 2022, 03:58 AM	#3208
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 101,830	Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan Which is actually something of a fair point. Boris Johnson is a nasty, racist, manipulative liar and a buffoon, but he didn't magically appear as leader of the country. The small minded little-Englanders elected his party, and by extension him. I miss Cameron. I didn't like him one bit but at least he wasn't...this. Main two differences are that Cameron is not as thick as two planks and has a tiny ember of personal shame remaining.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

28th January 2022, 06:04 AM	#3209
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 52,238	Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan Which is actually something of a fair point. Boris Johnson is a nasty, racist, manipulative liar and a buffoon, but he didn't magically appear as leader of the country. The small minded little-Englanders elected his party, and by extension him. I miss Cameron. I didn't like him one bit but at least he wasn't...this. I've seen people elsewhere comment that he's a politician and what do you expect? But in my lifetime I don't recall any politician, let alone a Prime Minister, who has so shamelessly lied, and lied, and lied, as well as being so incompetent and purely interested in holding office for the sake of it and at any cost. ETA: I should qualify that statement with "in the UK".
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

28th January 2022, 07:10 AM	#3210
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 25,611	But what would a former chief prosecutor know about criminal investigations Quote: nazir afzal @nazirafzal Normal 12% This is absolute nonsense from the Met Police A purely factual report by Sue Gray cannot possibly prejudice a police investigation They just have to follow the evidence, of which the report will be a part https://twitter.com/nazirafzal/statu...m4NpK3BitUCqjg Quote: Replying to @nazirafzal I have had a lot of “requests” in my lifetime & I only sing along when it might be appreciated The police can “request” whatever they like but we don’t have to sing along It has no legal force I “requested” they investigate ages ago and they ignored me too
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

28th January 2022, 03:12 AM	#3201
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 34,199	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop The problem here is straightforward. The Govt and The Met are fundamentally untrustworthy. They will collaborate at the highest level to ensure the best possible outcome for themselves How would a factual civil service report about events the police is investigating "prejudice" their investigation? IMO the issue we have is one of fundamentally not understanding the purpose of the Gray inquiry. We think it's to investigate the various parties that are alleged to have taken place at various locations during various lockdowns and to identify if there were any breaches of the law, lockdown rules and ministerial code. As Sue Gray understands it IMO, the purpose of the report is to assuage public anger over "Partygate" by giving the impression that a thorough investigation is being carried out whilst keeping the terms of the investigation and scope of the investigation narrow enough to ensure that no-one of consequence needs to be held to account. The Met is only involved because they've determined that inaction is more damaging than carrying out an investigation but they too will do their best not to find anything of consequence because it will justify their decision not to investigate in the first place - "See we told you we didn't need to investigate, as you can see we've wasted time, manpower and money investigating these baseless claims"

28th January 2022, 03:17 AM	#3202
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,207	It’s misleading to say the National Insurance rise is only 1.25% NI will rise from 9% to 10.25% … this means that on a £10k earning you will pay £1025 rather than £900 That means that your NÍ bill has gone up by 14%

28th January 2022, 03:22 AM	#3203
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,207	Operation Save Greased Weasel is in full force.

28th January 2022, 03:26 AM	#3205
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,207	You realise we'll have to put up with Tory MP sycophants 'explaining' how policing works today?

28th January 2022, 03:41 AM	#3206
Carrot Flower King Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 2,388	Originally Posted by The Don Well the Met have played an absolute blinder for the government there. Cressida Dick earning her contract renewal?

28th January 2022, 09:48 AM	#3211
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Leching at tractors (in Wales) Posts: 27,840	Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King Cressida Dick earning her contract renewal? I see that she's 61 now, so maybe another term with The Met and then a cosy spot in The Lords?
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

28th January 2022, 10:31 AM	#3212
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 101,830	Originally Posted by GlennB I see that she's 61 now, so maybe another term with The Met and then a cosy spot in The Lords? I always smile when they mention her in radio and TV, always careful to use her full name, rather than just "Commissioner Dick". No idea why.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

28th January 2022, 11:43 AM	#3213
MarkCorrigan ¡No pasarán! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Слава Україні Posts: 11,126	Originally Posted by zooterkin I've seen people elsewhere comment that he's a politician and what do you expect? But in my lifetime I don't recall any politician, let alone a Prime Minister, who has so shamelessly lied, and lied, and lied, as well as being so incompetent and purely interested in holding office for the sake of it and at any cost. ETA: I should qualify that statement with "in the UK". Thing is though while all politicians are bound to either lie or have to walk back promises either way, the sheer scope of BoJo's being a ****-up was plain even before he became PM. His ridiculous bollocks-bus during the Brexit fiasco for instance. The fact is though little Englanders like that he's a slimy bastard, or at least don't care because he echoes their prejudices and that's enough for them and this country is riddled with them.
	__________________ Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data. It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz When I give food to the poor, they call me a Saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist. - Hélder Câmara

28th January 2022, 11:44 AM	#3214
MarkCorrigan ¡No pasarán! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Слава Україні Posts: 11,126	Originally Posted by Darat I always smile when they mention her in radio and TV, always careful to use her full name, rather than just "Commissioner Dick". No idea why. Dick by name...
	__________________ Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data. It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz When I give food to the poor, they call me a Saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist. - Hélder Câmara

28th January 2022, 11:54 AM	#3215
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 25,611	Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan Thing is though while all politicians are bound to either lie or have to walk back promises either way, the sheer scope of BoJo's being a ****-up was plain even before he became PM. His ridiculous bollocks-bus during the Brexit fiasco for instance. The fact is though little Englanders like that he's a slimy bastard, or at least don't care because he echoes their prejudices and that's enough for them and this country is riddled with them. I think they don't anymore. I have a twitter alt that follows and reports antivaxers and that feed is even more against Johnson than my normal one.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

28th January 2022, 01:13 PM	#3216
wobs Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Hull Posts: 2,646	Originally Posted by jimbob I think they don't anymore. I have a twitter alt that follows and reports antivaxers and that feed is even more against Johnson than my normal one. My local Look North news recently read out some emails from viewers with comments like: "He's the best PM since Churchill" "He's had such a lot to deal with, I thinl he's donea great job".
	__________________ "To vowels. They stop consonants sticking together like boiled sweets in a paper bag."

28th January 2022, 03:29 PM	#3217
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Leching at tractors (in Wales) Posts: 27,840	It seems we'll get a redacted version of the Gray report pretty soon. Then weeks or months or years will pass before the full version is released. (Any cynicism in this post is strictly coincidental and not intended to portray the current reality of politics in the UK )
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

28th January 2022, 04:50 PM	#3218
MarkCorrigan ¡No pasarán! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Слава Україні Posts: 11,126	Tory sleaze rears its head again, only this time the Met are colluding with them.
	__________________ Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data. It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz When I give food to the poor, they call me a Saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist. - Hélder Câmara

29th January 2022, 03:35 AM	#3219
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,207	Ukraine: Boris Johnson to call Vladimir Putin and visit region Boris Johnson will telephone Russian President Vladimir Putin and visit Eastern Europe in the coming days as the UK steps up its diplomatic efforts to resolve the Ukraine border crisis. No 10 said the PM would repeat the need for Russia to "engage diplomatically" when he spoke to Mr Putin this week. He would "reiterate the need for Russia to step back", No 10 added. Mr Johnson has said the UK could deploy troops to protect NATO allies if Russia invaded Ukraine. However, Ukraine is not part of NATO and Russia wants the West to promise it will never join the military alliance, seeing it as a direct threat to its security. As well as Mr Johnson's visit to the region, Foreign Secretary Liz Truss will visit Moscow in the next two weeks, the Russian Embassy in the UK said. Mr Johnson has asked military and security chiefs to give him more options to mitigate against what Downing Street has called "growing Russian aggression". This weekend, the prime minister is considering those options - including the deployment of more British troops to NATO countries in the region. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60179127 Send more troops to help NATO allies? I bet he wishes the Tories hadn't cut the infantry by almost 20% over the last few years.

29th January 2022, 04:05 AM	#3220
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 101,830	Sue Grey - oh that’s last week’s news. How can Labour keep going on about a glass of wine at the office when Starma was seen drinking a beer in the office and Johnson is trying to deal with a possible Russian invasion. Not the invasion of London - that one is fine
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

29th January 2022, 04:30 AM	#3221
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,207	Cressida Dick is not new to obstruction In June last year an inquiry into police corruption over the Daniel Morgan murder: “blamed Dick personally for obstructing access to documents the panel thought vital” 3 months later Priti Patel extended her contract by 2 years

29th January 2022, 04:32 AM	#3222
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,729	The Gray report is worthless anyway, as one of the Tories inadvertently admitted when the Met opened their investigation, noting that officials were more likely to be forthcoming when speaking to the police than to Gray.
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,729

29th January 2022, 06:23 AM	#3223
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,207	Memorial Device tweeted @memorialdevice · 3h The state cannot be trusted to investigate itself. Hillsborough. Orgreave. The Pat Finucane case etc. The truth about Bloody Sunday took 40 YEARS to emerge. Hide behind a bogus 'official investigation' and ride-out the outrage. The incumbent administration survives. If the public campaigning is relentless enough, the truth MAY emerge years later. But the political fallout will then be zero. Nobody is ever held to account. A shrug of the shoulders and a 'we will learn from it'. They do learn from it. They learn to do it again.

29th January 2022, 08:15 AM	#3224
Carrot Flower King Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 2,388	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Memorial Device tweeted @memorialdevice · 3h The state cannot be trusted to investigate itself. Hillsborough. Orgreave. The Pat Finucane case etc. The truth about Bloody Sunday took 40 YEARS to emerge. Hide behind a bogus 'official investigation' and ride-out the outrage. The incumbent administration survives. If the public campaigning is relentless enough, the truth MAY emerge years later. But the political fallout will then be zero. Nobody is ever held to account. A shrug of the shoulders and a 'we will learn from it'. They do learn from it. They learn to do it again. Yes, Minister/Prime Minister was a documentary...Sir Humphrey lives on.

29th January 2022, 09:21 AM	#3225
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 26,930	Originally Posted by wobs My local Look North news recently read out some emails from viewers with comments like: "He's the best PM since Churchill" "He's had such a lot to deal with, I thinl he's donea great job". Damned with faint praise. Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Ukraine: Boris Johnson to call Vladimir Putin and visit region Boris Johnson will telephone Russian President Vladimir Putin and visit Eastern Europe in the coming days as the UK steps up its diplomatic efforts to resolve the Ukraine border crisis. No 10 said the PM would repeat the need for Russia to "engage diplomatically" when he spoke to Mr Putin this week. He would "reiterate the need for Russia to step back", No 10 added. Mr Johnson has said the UK could deploy troops to protect NATO allies if Russia invaded Ukraine. However, Ukraine is not part of NATO and Russia wants the West to promise it will never join the military alliance, seeing it as a direct threat to its security. As well as Mr Johnson's visit to the region, Foreign Secretary Liz Truss will visit Moscow in the next two weeks, the Russian Embassy in the UK said. Mr Johnson has asked military and security chiefs to give him more options to mitigate against what Downing Street has called "growing Russian aggression". This weekend, the prime minister is considering those options - including the deployment of more British troops to NATO countries in the region. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60179127 Send more troops to help NATO allies? I bet he wishes the Tories hadn't cut the infantry by almost 20% over the last few years. "What this country needs is a short, victorious war to stem the tide of revolution."
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

29th January 2022, 10:36 AM	#3226
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,706	Originally Posted by Darat Sue Grey - oh that’s last week’s news. How can Labour keep going on about a glass of wine at the office when Starma was seen drinking a beer in the office and Johnson is trying to deal with a possible Russian invasion. Not the invasion of London - that one is fine Their incursion into the House of Lords & corporate takeover of Tory Central Office don't seem to have caused much of a stir either.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,706	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

29th January 2022, 11:43 AM	#3227
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,207	David Schneider tweeted @davidschneider · 3h Maybe if you’re Rishi Sunak and your wife’s richer than the Queen, it doesn’t seem that big a deal to write off £4.3bn in fraud even in a country with more food banks than McDonalds.

29th January 2022, 01:25 PM	#3228
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,207	Memorial Device tweeted @memorialdevice · 8 hours after our tweet: ‘we must learn from the past’ Quote Tweet Boris Johnson @BorisJohnson United Kingdom government official · 2h Tomorrow marks a tragic day in our history, the 50th anniversary of Bloody Sunday. This was one of the darkest days of the Troubles. We must learn from the past, reconcile, and build a peaceful future for people in Northern Ireland.

30th January 2022, 04:52 AM	#3229
Carrot Flower King Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 2,388	Of course BlowJob did nothing, absolutely nothing I tell you, wrong or potentially criminal when he was shagging Jennifer Arcuri (who was he married to at the time?)... https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-boris-johnson

30th January 2022, 05:57 AM	#3230
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 101,830	Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King Of course BlowJob did nothing, absolutely nothing I tell you, wrong or potentially criminal when he was shagging Jennifer Arcuri (who was he married to at the time?)... https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-boris-johnson Sue Gray will have to look into that as Johnson of course can't remember.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

30th January 2022, 07:05 AM	#3231
ohms Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,429	Our Foreign Secretary said today that the UK will offer extra support "into our [b]Baltic/[b] allies across the Black Sea". https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/stat...29051271843842 Good to see that she's maintaining the recent tradition of being unencumbered by knowledge.
ohms Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,429	__________________ Long time lurker

30th January 2022, 10:44 AM	#3232
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 25,611	https://twitter.com/annietrev/status...63659212869637 Quote: Anne-Marie Trevelyan @annietrev Normal 1% Excited to start negotiations with Greenland on a continuity Free Trade Agreement. A �� FTA could reduce tariffs on fish & seafood imports from Greenland, supporting key businesses like supermarkets & hospitality & catering firms Trade = growth = jobs https://www.gov.uk/government/news/s...nd-trade-talks Yes you read that correctly. Quote: Background: In 2020, total UK trade with Greenland amounted to £10 million, and DIT estimates that a further £49 million of coldwater shrimp coming into the UK predominantly originated from Greenland that same year. A country with about half the population of a UK Parliamentary constituency.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

30th January 2022, 10:46 AM	#3233
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 25,611	Meanwhile to offset this, I make it that since Thursday we have found that the government has wasted £7Bn. £4.3Bn in fraudulent Covid loans written off £2.7Bn in PPE purchased that needs to be written off.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

30th January 2022, 10:51 AM	#3234
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,706	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop David Schneider tweeted @davidschneider · 3h Maybe if you’re Rishi Sunak and your wife’s richer than the Queen, it doesn’t seem that big a deal to write off £4.3bn in fraud even in a country with more food banks than McDonalds. Rishi Rich has lost more than that down the back of the sofa.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,706	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

30th January 2022, 10:52 AM	#3235
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,706	Originally Posted by jimbob Meanwhile to offset this, I make it that since Thursday we have found that the government has wasted £7Bn. £4.3Bn in fraudulent Covid loans written off £2.7Bn in PPE purchased that needs to be written off. "The Party of Fiscal Responsibility"...
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,706	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills