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Tags microsoft , Windows 10 , Windows 11

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Old 27th June 2021, 04:02 AM   #41
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The only use I ever had for widgets was I liked having a nearly transparent clock floating in a corner as I lose track of time easily. I would still use that.
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Old 27th June 2021, 04:09 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
The only use I ever had for widgets was I liked having a nearly transparent clock floating in a corner as I lose track of time easily. I would still use that.
I am sure a senior exec in Microsoft has a fetish for widgets as they keep trying to get them into Windows only for them to be removed in the next update as useless.

I suspect this version of widgets is because they want to make the OS as similar on different form factors as possible - so if you are using a tablet that runs Windows 11 you have the expected widgets that go with that form factor.
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Old 27th June 2021, 04:12 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
The only use I ever had for widgets was I liked having a nearly transparent clock floating in a corner as I lose track of time easily. I would still use that.
You have time on the taskbar these days. Indeed I think it is what makes the centred taskbar icons in Windows look so ugly - the far right one is a double line of plain text, they should have created a style for that that links into the iconic style of the rest of the taskbar.
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Old 27th June 2021, 04:25 AM   #44
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I already have my taskbar centered. Hopefully in 5 years it will just give me an excuse to buy a new machine
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Old 27th June 2021, 04:34 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You have time on the taskbar these days. Indeed I think it is what makes the centred taskbar icons in Windows look so ugly - the far right one is a double line of plain text, they should have created a style for that that links into the iconic style of the rest of the taskbar.

I also like to auto-hide my taskbar. Yes, I know it's not Burger King "My way" but I like as few visual distractions as possible when coding. Since I also have a family life I need low profile clock as a necessary distraction.
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Old 27th June 2021, 06:11 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That will be 10 years of supporting a product, I don't think that is an unreasonably short time.

Plus knowing MS's past there will still be critical patches issued.
Plus knowing MS's past there will still need to be critical patches issued.
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Old 27th June 2021, 06:37 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
I also like to auto-hide my taskbar. Yes, I know it's not Burger King "My way" but I like as few visual distractions as possible when coding. Since I also have a family life I need low profile clock as a necessary distraction.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/p/cl...ot:overviewtab
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Old 27th June 2021, 06:51 AM   #48
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Thank you! On my iPad just now but that looks good.
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Old 27th June 2021, 07:45 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
If people are going to struggle with a rather minor update to Windows Linux is going to be well beyond them!

I guess you haven't tried it since a decade or two. Linux 2021 is not what it used to be. Trivial to install and run on a desktop. No need to go under the hood, at least not more often than with this Windows nonsense.

But I digress. I just HAVE to put a penguin in threads like this.
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Old 27th June 2021, 07:47 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I guess you haven't tried it since a decade or two. Linux 2021 is not what it used to be. Trivial to install and run on a desktop. No need to go under the hood, at least not more often than with this Windows nonsense.
Nope use it a lot and nope no way is someone going to cope with moving to Linux if they can't cope with this Windows upgrade.

Quote:

But I digress. I just HAVE to put a penguin in threads like this.
Of course. Waiting for the apple.
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Old 27th June 2021, 08:02 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That will be 10 years of supporting a product, I don't think that is an unreasonably short time.

I don't disagree with that. But the difference this time is the rather significant number of machines that are unable to upgrade to the new version.

As I mentioned. My two year old laptop has TPM 2.0 enabled and is still not able to install Win 11.

Quote:
Plus knowing MS's past there will still be critical patches issued.

One can but hope.
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Old 27th June 2021, 09:51 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I don't disagree with that. But the difference this time is the rather significant number of machines that are unable to upgrade to the new version.

As I mentioned. My two year old laptop has TPM 2.0 enabled and is still not able to install Win 11.




One can but hope.
I think there will be a lot of feedback like yours and from the general beta release which starts I think later this week. I expect a lot of these strange incompatibilities will be ironed out before release.
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Old 27th June 2021, 10:14 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I think there will be a lot of feedback like yours and from the general beta release which starts I think later this week. I expect a lot of these strange incompatibilities will be ironed out before release.
Like I said. One can hope.
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Old 27th June 2021, 11:33 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Skype is just being integrated into "Teams", which is now going to be part of the OS itself. They're introducing a bunch of widgets.

And in the old days I certainly never used to have a folder that featured programmes that I don't use and don't want and which either can't be uninstalled, or if they can then are automatically re-installed every update.

You're right that in literally the last couple of months they've finally listened to the cries of users and reduced a tiny amount of the bloat. But that's a small step back from a decades-long trend.
Well, I think the reality is that OS's expand to fill available disk, memory, processor cycles and hard drive space. Microsoft OS's for sure, though others are not completely exempt.
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Old 27th June 2021, 02:24 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
The only use I ever had for widgets was I liked having a nearly transparent clock floating in a corner as I lose track of time easily. I would still use that.
I never see my desktop, so it would be useless to me. Even more so now that you launch the widgets from a button on the task bar...which also has a clock on it. I have the task bar hidden, but I have a clock on my browser, and it's easy enough to move my pointer to the bottom of the screen to activate the task bar or, more commonly, to simply look at my watch.
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Old 27th June 2021, 02:35 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Well, I think the reality is that OS's expand to fill available disk, memory, processor cycles and hard drive space. Microsoft OS's for sure, though others are not completely exempt.
I think it's more that people in companies come up with ideas that they think are great and can't quite imagine other people wanting anything different. I think that pretty much explains why everybody at Microsoft was so excited for Windows 8, even though it was clearly a terrible OS packed with features that people didn't want.

I think it also explains many of Apple's bizarre choices - there's this idea of the "Apple culture", that some of the more fervent customers buy in to as well, which is sort of "our opinions are the correct ones" and it's very hard to turn the ship. Which is why, for example, you only got a dark mode on ios less than two years ago, despite it having been standard on every other OS for years.

I think there's a lot of that "corporate culture" stuff that goes on in big tech, where the people who make the decisions or who are in positions to get their ideas listened to are rather out of touch with how people actually use their machines and/or have a "no, it's the children who are wrong" attitude about it. It's an "I think a widget with the latest stock prices on it would be really cool, therefore it's a good idea", even if most people don't invest in stocks and the majority of those who do wouldn't be using a widget on their desktop to monitor them.
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Old 27th June 2021, 02:40 PM   #57
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As for Linux, it's something I've always been interested in trying, but I've never had the impetus and there's always the "I have programmes that wouldn't run on it" problem. My current machine isn't compatible with Windows 11, apparently, but I'm not bothered enough about upgrading to find out why. I expect it's that security chip thing, but I also expect I do have one installed. Perhaps in 4 years, when Windows 10 will stop getting updates I'll look in to Linux. My brother is an IT guy who specialises in Linux, so even if I get stuck it should be pretty easy. But I'll definitely look into what I'd need to upgrade first because, as I say, I've got plenty of programmes that wouldn't run on it.

And, yes, I know that there are equivalent programmes but, for example, GIMP isn't Photoshop, even though I use it for a couple of things here and there because there are some things it does better. And, yes, I can create a virtual machine that runs Windows, but if I'm going to do that, then wouldn't it be simpler just to run Windows?
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Old 27th June 2021, 07:25 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Not being able to move the taskbar is a little disappointing to me. I like having it up the left side - vertical real estate is for me more valuable than horizontal, since my monitors are invariably oriented in landscape.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Skype is just being integrated into "Teams", which is now going to be part of the OS itself. They're introducing a bunch of widgets.
Teams is better than Skype in every way. I think if Skype had been allowed to continue being supported and developed, it eventually would have ended up much like Teams is now.
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Old 27th June 2021, 08:37 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I just hope they make it smaller, including Windows updates in smaller, discrete lumps. Win10 is so full of bloatware and inefficient code that it no longer fits on my 30GB travel laptop leaving enough space to allow updates. And the "disk" is soldered to the mobo, so I can't upgrade it.
Attached is an image of Microsoft considering your proposal.
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Old 28th June 2021, 05:02 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Teams is better than Skype in every way. I think if Skype had been allowed to continue being supported and developed, it eventually would have ended up much like Teams is now.
I've not used either so I can't speak to that but it's certainly not uncommon for a big corporation to buy a smaller company's product, take what they want from it, and then kill the original app (see Apple buying Dark Sky), or just scrap it all together to kill a competitor.

The point is that they're not reducing bloatware by getting rid of Skype, they are in fact increasing it by making Teams an integral part of the OS which you can't get rid of, even if you don't use it. It'll be more like Cortana than Skype.
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Old 28th June 2021, 05:23 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Not being able to move the taskbar is a little disappointing to me. I like having it up the left side - vertical real estate is for me more valuable than horizontal, since my monitors are invariably oriented in landscape.

Teams is better than Skype in every way. I think if Skype had been allowed to continue being supported and developed, it eventually would have ended up much like Teams is now.
Does Teams have the ability to set a custom background in video conferences? That is a feature of Skype I use a lot so that I'm not projecting an image of my real house behind me.

Don't get me wrong, it seems like Skype is trying to abandon this feature themselves--it's available in Skype for Windows, a desktop program, which keeps uninstalling itself and trying to steer me to a different version.
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Old 28th June 2021, 06:06 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
Does Teams have the ability to set a custom background in video conferences? That is a feature of Skype I use a lot so that I'm not projecting an image of my real house behind me.

Don't get me wrong, it seems like Skype is trying to abandon this feature themselves--it's available in Skype for Windows, a desktop program, which keeps uninstalling itself and trying to steer me to a different version.
It does. As far as my colleagues are concerned, I'm joining them from the St Lawrence ground in Canterbury.
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Old 28th June 2021, 06:16 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I never see my desktop, so it would be useless to me.
Yes; I used to marvel at those websites that share desktop themes, and wonder who were these people that used their computers without opening any windows, that they were able to have widgets all over their backdrop.
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Old 28th June 2021, 06:19 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Yes; I used to marvel at those websites that share desktop themes, and wonder who were these people that used their computers without opening any windows, that they were able to have widgets all over their backdrop.
Desktop themes can theme your windows' accoutrements like the title bars so I can see people liking themes for that.
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Old 28th June 2021, 06:20 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Found the issue - TMP
What is TMP?
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Old 28th June 2021, 06:22 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Desktop themes can theme your windows' accoutrements like the title bars so I can see people liking themes for that.
Yes, I used a few for that, but the idea that you'd spend any time looking at your desktop with all the windows iconised (or none open at all) is completely alien to the way I've used computers all my life (at least since they had screens, anyway).
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Old 28th June 2021, 06:24 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
What is TMP?
Trusted platform module - in a modern PC usually found in your BIOS settings under "security" or similar menu.
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Old 28th June 2021, 06:27 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Yes, I used a few for that, but the idea that you'd spend any time looking at your desktop with all the windows iconised (or none open at all) is completely alien to the way I've used computers all my life (at least since they had screens, anyway).
I do use my desktop to access things via Windows Key + D. I'll often have a set of documents (of different types) I am working on and keeping them on the desktop can be quicker for me than using "open" dialogue boxes in apps.
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Old 28th June 2021, 10:48 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Yes, I used a few for that, but the idea that you'd spend any time looking at your desktop with all the windows iconised (or none open at all) is completely alien to the way I've used computers all my life (at least since they had screens, anyway).
So the idea that people use their computer differently from you is weird?
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Old 28th June 2021, 11:37 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Not being able to move the taskbar is a little disappointing to me. I like having it up the left side - vertical real estate is for me more valuable than horizontal, since my monitors are invariably oriented in landscape.

<snip>

I have my taskbar set to auto-hide, so the only time I see it is when I want it or I inadvertently run my cursor all the way to the bottom of the screen.

I've tried setting it to the sides, but just don't like it that way. I can't articulate any reasons for that, but it just doesn't work for me.
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Old 28th June 2021, 02:05 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I have my taskbar set to auto-hide, so the only time I see it is when I want it or I inadvertently run my cursor all the way to the bottom of the screen.
Yes, me too. Why would you want to waste pixels on something you don't need to see all the time, when you could have useful information there?
Quote:
I've tried setting it to the sides, but just don't like it that way. I can't articulate any reasons for that, but it just doesn't work for me.
Ditto.
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Old 28th June 2021, 02:58 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Yes, me too. Why would you want to waste pixels on something you don't need to see all the time, when you could have useful information there?
The only time it's a problem for me is when I need to do something on the bottom of a window and move my cursor too far down. That can be annoying, but otherwise I agree totally - there is no purpose whatsoever for taking up real estate with something that conveys little or no information.

And, yeah, I don't see my desktop, either. If I'm using files I'll have explorer open, if I need to switch apps I either use the taskbar, or alt-tab. If I need to find something I search with Everything. All the programmes I use often are either pinned to the taskbar or the start menu. Literally the only time I ever use my desktop is when I empty the trash bin.
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Old 28th June 2021, 07:16 PM   #73
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Old 29th June 2021, 03:23 AM   #74
Darat
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Updated workhorse to Windows 11 - quite a giveaway how minor an upgrade it is as it took less than 10 minutes. Not sure exactly how long as I went to make a cuppa thinking it would be a while and when I got back it was at the login screen.

Centre taskbar hasn't been thought through, click on the Start button and the start menu appears centred so you must move your pointer across the screen and up to access it. This would be fine if using Windows on a tablet. Change it back to left justified and it appears in its usual place.

Lots of small cosmetic changes but not followed all the way through. For example windows, menus and dialogues are now rounded but if I hover my mouse over say the browser icon the thumbnail preview image is still a harsh rectangle. ETA - if you let windows snap to an edge of the screen the windows become squared off.
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Old 29th June 2021, 04:15 AM   #75
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Because of the staggered rollout of W10 updates I'm not sure that any of my W10 boxes are up to date yet, let alone on the list for W11.
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Old 29th June 2021, 04:56 AM   #76
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One thing I hate, I think it started with Windows 10, is self-hiding scroll bars (width-wise).
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Old 29th June 2021, 07:38 AM   #77
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Updated workhorse to Windows 11 - quite a giveaway how minor an upgrade it is as it took less than 10 minutes. Not sure exactly how long as I went to make a cuppa thinking it would be a while and when I got back it was at the login screen.

Centre taskbar hasn't been thought through, click on the Start button and the start menu appears centred so you must move your pointer across the screen and up to access it. This would be fine if using Windows on a tablet. Change it back to left justified and it appears in its usual place.

Lots of small cosmetic changes but not followed all the way through. For example windows, menus and dialogues are now rounded but if I hover my mouse over say the browser icon the thumbnail preview image is still a harsh rectangle. ETA - if you let windows snap to an edge of the screen the windows become squared off.
Perhaps those things will be fixed once its out of beta? I mean the details, not the centring thing, which they'll probably be stubborn about for a while and then regress.
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Old 29th June 2021, 07:42 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Perhaps those things will be fixed once its out of beta? I mean the details, not the centring thing, which they'll probably be stubborn about for a while and then regress.
It's always difficult to tell when a software company reaches beta these days! If it is considered beta then there shouldn't be any changes bar bug fixes so it would depend on whether they look at bugs as bugs or "as designed".
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Old 29th June 2021, 07:44 AM   #79
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Looking forward to the newest version of Classic Shell that will surely be necessary to make whatever new UI windows cooks up useable.
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Old 29th June 2021, 02:04 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
It's always difficult to tell when a software company reaches beta these days! If it is considered beta then there shouldn't be any changes bar bug fixes so it would depend on whether they look at bugs as bugs or "as designed".
Yeah, I think "beta" covers a multitude of sins nowadays.
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