Okay Democrats, it's time to put up or shut up - Page 2

lobosrul5 · 6th January 2021, 09:36 AM

My big 4:

1) Rollback pretty much every Trump executive order. That should be done January 20 by 6 PM eastern time.
2) Huge corps/billionaires that profited on the pandemic can pay a nice big tax surcharge.
3) Comprehensive healthcare reform. (This won't happen the industry will get too much money to a few of the blue dog senators, but I can hope)
4) End the "war on drugs", from federal agencies.

Horatius · 6th January 2021, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

But it isn't like they would see the connection like being for the ACA and hating Obamacare.

Yeah, for purposes of this thread we should probably assume "...and a massive propaganda campaign explaining this to the MAGAts" is appended to the end of every policy.

Bob001 · 6th January 2021, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Horatius

In the spirit of bi-partisanship (from abroad, anyways), it's time for a new version of my not-quite-four-years-old thread.

Waking up to the news that it appears the Democrats have won both the Georgia run-off elections, this means that, for the next two years at least, they have control of all of Congress and the Presidency. After 6 years of obstinate refusal by Moscow Mitch to even consider any legislation passed by the Democratic House, the Dems are finally in position to pass laws to make their agenda a reality.
.....

What it really means is that Moscow Mitch won't be able to block bills from reaching the Senate floor, even after they've been passed by the House and have broad Senate support. But they can only pass if every Democrat votes for them. I think you will find that some Democratic senators from conservative states, particularly Joe Manchin, won't automatically support every Democratic proposal. The Democrats' real hope might be to attract a few responsible Repubs to get behind stimulus payments, tax reform, qualified judges, etc. But even they won't go too far to support mainstream Democratic goals.

rdwight · 6th January 2021, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Which of Biden’s policies/goals worry you?

I wouldn't hold Biden's policies as examples of the progressive wish list I am talking about.

Originally Posted by plague311

The only bills the Dems ever get through are centrist. Look at Obamacare, it was basically a Republican plan. The progressives have started making noise, and with the younger generation taking hold (Ossoff will be the youngest Democrat Senator or something crazy?) like AOC, and the squad. I don't know if center is going to work. I hope they definitely push this country as far left as possible. Even us out with the world a bit more.

Republicans will try to block any and all I would suspect, so maybe compromise won't be on the table. But I think the progressive push left is a bubble of thought that doesn't reflect the party as much as they would like, and the compromises might be starting within the party before it even comes to what is proposed to the other side.

Originally Posted by Horatius

I'd go for a "Medicare for Most" type of plan. Medicare for all is probably a non-starter, but even expanding coverage significantly could have the biggest impact on the most people.

The first time a Trump voter goes to the ER, worried more about the cost than their health, and is told that the visit won't cost them a penny out of pocket, has to have an impact on at least some of them. Even getting 1% of them to come to their senses could secure the Democrats victory in 2022.

I think building on/finishing off a push on healthcare specifically during a health crisis could probably be their best play. I like the idea of universal catastrophic insurance, since that would basically cover the horror stories about medical bankruptcies and the issues that go with it. Maybe there is some middle ground to be had there somewhere that could be worked out, but not sure if it could be done without getting rid of the filibuster.

Horatius · 6th January 2021, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

4) End the "war on drugs", from federal agencies.

Ah, that's a good one. Relatively easy to implement, popular on both sides of the aisle, even if for different reasons, and that popularity has been increasing of late so the momentum is already there, saves money which the Republicans should like, and eliminates a lot of unneeded policing and prison sentences which the Democrats would like.

Horatius · 6th January 2021, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

The Democrats' real hope might be to attract a few responsible Repubs to support stimulus payments, tax reform, qualified judges, etc. But even they won't go too far to support mainstream Democratic goals.

That is certainly a worthy goal. Showing that bi-partisanship is still possible would itself be a major success.

JoeMorgue · 6th January 2021, 09:49 AM

Bi-partisanship is not the goal to the "Wah burn it all down and start the revolution" crowd.

A lot of people have a lot emotionally vested in American politics failing.

Delphic Oracle · 6th January 2021, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Firestone

These can probably be done using "reconciliation".
Maybe lowering the age for Medicare too.

HR1, DC and Puerto Rico statehood, probably not.

Senate version of reconciliation is once per year and must involve budgetary issues.

Yes, this has been flouted before because "unanimous consent" (no objection) can basically override anything. It won't pass the necessary hurdles.

Tero · 6th January 2021, 09:53 AM

Medicare for all. Medicare card can also be voter ID card.

Horatius · 6th January 2021, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Tero

Medicare for all. Medicare card can also be voter ID card.

It would be worth it just to watch heads explode!

JoeMorgue · 6th January 2021, 10:03 AM

New rule.

The Senate is always "in session." You're not working the deep fryer at McDonalds, you're lawmakers. You don't get to run out the clock and go home.

Again this is a democracy. Congress is our employee, not our boss. It's past time we told them "No. You get to go home when the work is done."

Congress dictates far too much to us.

Garrison · 6th January 2021, 10:14 AM

About typical, the same doom merchants predicting Biden would lose, and then that the Republicans would hold the Senate and ensure at least two years of obstruction, are now predicting disaster as the Dems turn on one another. I get being wrong is embarrassing, but how about giving Biden a couple of weeks at least and putting the Cassandra routine to bed for a while?

Distracted1 · 6th January 2021, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Horatius

I'd go for a "Medicare for Most" type of plan. Medicare for all is probably a non-starter, but even expanding coverage significantly could have the biggest impact on the most people.

The first time a Trump voter goes to the ER, worried more about the cost than their health, and is told that the visit won't cost them a penny out of pocket, has to have an impact on at least some of them. Even getting 1% of them to come to their senses could secure the Democrats victory in 2022.

I agree.
Healthcare is still a net winner for Dems. At the very least a Medicare "buy in" scheme would be viewed as progress by most.

catsmate · 6th January 2021, 01:22 PM

Given the current Trump/Cruz/McCarthy coup attempt, it's time to start shooting Trumpettes.

dudalb · 6th January 2021, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Given the current Trump/Cruz/McCarthy coup attempt, it's time to start shooting Trumpettes.

100% agreed.The time for pacifism is way past.
That is the problem with the "peace and freedom" slogan. A lot of the time you have to chose between them.

Delvo · 6th January 2021, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

Maybe we don't really need sweeping changes at this point.

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

Biden and the Dems ONLY have to do better than Trump and the GOP-radicals.

Thinking small & doing little is how we got Trump in the first place, so another round of it is just a red carpet for Trump II. There is only one way to avoid that. They need to do enough, fast enough, for Republican & "independent" voters to see a difference in their lives.

The Great Zaganza · 9th January 2021, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

No, they don't. They have to do better than Trump and the GOP radicals told their supporters they did.

Dave

no.
That is the classical double-standard, the built-in presumption that Dems need to do a flawless job to be considered only just as or a little bit less competent than Republicans who mess up completely and often intentionally.

No question Biden, Harris and the rest of the party will do great things, but in 2022 and 2024, all that should matter to voters is whether they did better than Trump and his GOP to get them reelected.

Don't put the bar to success too high for Democrats to achieve, and the bar to failure too low for Republicans not to clear it.

varwoche · 10th January 2021, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by varwoche

1. Meet with Joe Manchin
2.
3. Profit

Manchin's interview on CNN this morning makes it painfully clear how little progress lies ahead.

As a reminder, Manchin is the reason the ACA didn't include a public option.

6th January 2021, 09:36 AM	#41
lobosrul5 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 2,071	My big 4: 1) Rollback pretty much every Trump executive order. That should be done January 20 by 6 PM eastern time. 2) Huge corps/billionaires that profited on the pandemic can pay a nice big tax surcharge. 3) Comprehensive healthcare reform. (This won't happen the industry will get too much money to a few of the blue dog senators, but I can hope) 4) End the "war on drugs", from federal agencies.
lobosrul5 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 2,071	Last edited by lobosrul5; 6th January 2021 at 09:38 AM.

6th January 2021, 09:37 AM	#42
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle But it isn't like they would see the connection like being for the ACA and hating Obamacare. Yeah, for purposes of this thread we should probably assume "...and a massive propaganda campaign explaining this to the MAGAts" is appended to the end of every policy.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

6th January 2021, 09:37 AM	#43
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,306	Originally Posted by Horatius In the spirit of bi-partisanship (from abroad, anyways), it's time for a new version of my not-quite-four-years-old thread. Waking up to the news that it appears the Democrats have won both the Georgia run-off elections, this means that, for the next two years at least, they have control of all of Congress and the Presidency. After 6 years of obstinate refusal by Moscow Mitch to even consider any legislation passed by the Democratic House, the Dems are finally in position to pass laws to make their agenda a reality. ..... What it really means is that Moscow Mitch won't be able to block bills from reaching the Senate floor, even after they've been passed by the House and have broad Senate support. But they can only pass if every Democrat votes for them. I think you will find that some Democratic senators from conservative states, particularly Joe Manchin, won't automatically support every Democratic proposal. The Democrats' real hope might be to attract a few responsible Repubs to get behind stimulus payments, tax reform, qualified judges, etc. But even they won't go too far to support mainstream Democratic goals.
	Last edited by Bob001; 6th January 2021 at 09:45 AM.

6th January 2021, 09:39 AM	#44
rdwight Muse Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 750	Originally Posted by Darat Which of Biden’s policies/goals worry you? I wouldn't hold Biden's policies as examples of the progressive wish list I am talking about. Originally Posted by plague311 The only bills the Dems ever get through are centrist. Look at Obamacare, it was basically a Republican plan. The progressives have started making noise, and with the younger generation taking hold (Ossoff will be the youngest Democrat Senator or something crazy?) like AOC, and the squad. I don't know if center is going to work. I hope they definitely push this country as far left as possible. Even us out with the world a bit more. Republicans will try to block any and all I would suspect, so maybe compromise won't be on the table. But I think the progressive push left is a bubble of thought that doesn't reflect the party as much as they would like, and the compromises might be starting within the party before it even comes to what is proposed to the other side. Originally Posted by Horatius I'd go for a "Medicare for Most" type of plan. Medicare for all is probably a non-starter, but even expanding coverage significantly could have the biggest impact on the most people. The first time a Trump voter goes to the ER, worried more about the cost than their health, and is told that the visit won't cost them a penny out of pocket, has to have an impact on at least some of them. Even getting 1% of them to come to their senses could secure the Democrats victory in 2022. I think building on/finishing off a push on healthcare specifically during a health crisis could probably be their best play. I like the idea of universal catastrophic insurance, since that would basically cover the horror stories about medical bankruptcies and the issues that go with it. Maybe there is some middle ground to be had there somewhere that could be worked out, but not sure if it could be done without getting rid of the filibuster.
rdwight Muse Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 750	Last edited by rdwight; 6th January 2021 at 09:43 AM.

6th January 2021, 09:40 AM	#45
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	Originally Posted by lobosrul5 4) End the "war on drugs", from federal agencies. Ah, that's a good one. Relatively easy to implement, popular on both sides of the aisle, even if for different reasons, and that popularity has been increasing of late so the momentum is already there, saves money which the Republicans should like, and eliminates a lot of unneeded policing and prison sentences which the Democrats would like.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

6th January 2021, 09:42 AM	#46
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	Originally Posted by Bob001 The Democrats' real hope might be to attract a few responsible Repubs to support stimulus payments, tax reform, qualified judges, etc. But even they won't go too far to support mainstream Democratic goals. That is certainly a worthy goal. Showing that bi-partisanship is still possible would itself be a major success.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

6th January 2021, 09:49 AM	#47
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 29,742	Bi-partisanship is not the goal to the "Wah burn it all down and start the revolution" crowd. A lot of people have a lot emotionally vested in American politics failing.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

6th January 2021, 09:52 AM	#48
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 5,263	Originally Posted by Firestone These can probably be done using "reconciliation". Maybe lowering the age for Medicare too. HR1, DC and Puerto Rico statehood, probably not. Senate version of reconciliation is once per year and must involve budgetary issues. Yes, this has been flouted before because "unanimous consent" (no objection) can basically override anything. It won't pass the necessary hurdles.

6th January 2021, 09:53 AM	#49
Tero Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 2,143	Medicare for all. Medicare card can also be voter ID card.
	__________________ I've deleted the one blog link. You can find the humor blog by searching "the kari report blogspot." Politics blog: https://esapolitics.blogspot.com/

6th January 2021, 09:58 AM	#50
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	Originally Posted by Tero Medicare for all. Medicare card can also be voter ID card. It would be worth it just to watch heads explode!
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

6th January 2021, 10:03 AM	#51
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 29,742	New rule. The Senate is always "in session." You're not working the deep fryer at McDonalds, you're lawmakers. You don't get to run out the clock and go home. Again this is a democracy. Congress is our employee, not our boss. It's past time we told them "No. You get to go home when the work is done." Congress dictates far too much to us.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

6th January 2021, 10:14 AM	#52
Garrison Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: UK Posts: 5,451	About typical, the same doom merchants predicting Biden would lose, and then that the Republicans would hold the Senate and ensure at least two years of obstruction, are now predicting disaster as the Dems turn on one another. I get being wrong is embarrassing, but how about giving Biden a couple of weeks at least and putting the Cassandra routine to bed for a while?
	__________________ So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/ And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX

6th January 2021, 10:16 AM	#53
Distracted1 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 5,175	Originally Posted by Horatius I'd go for a "Medicare for Most" type of plan. Medicare for all is probably a non-starter, but even expanding coverage significantly could have the biggest impact on the most people. The first time a Trump voter goes to the ER, worried more about the cost than their health, and is told that the visit won't cost them a penny out of pocket, has to have an impact on at least some of them. Even getting 1% of them to come to their senses could secure the Democrats victory in 2022. I agree. Healthcare is still a net winner for Dems. At the very least a Medicare "buy in" scheme would be viewed as progress by most.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

6th January 2021, 01:22 PM	#54
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,412	Given the current Trump/Cruz/McCarthy coup attempt, it's time to start shooting Trumpettes.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

6th January 2021, 02:18 PM	#55
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 49,832	Originally Posted by catsmate Given the current Trump/Cruz/McCarthy coup attempt, it's time to start shooting Trumpettes. 100% agreed.The time for pacifism is way past. That is the problem with the "peace and freedom" slogan. A lot of the time you have to chose between them.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

6th January 2021, 06:04 PM	#56
Delvo Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Tonawanda, NY Posts: 9,184	Originally Posted by Meadmaker Maybe we don't really need sweeping changes at this point. Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza Biden and the Dems ONLY have to do better than Trump and the GOP-radicals. Thinking small & doing little is how we got Trump in the first place, so another round of it is just a red carpet for Trump II. There is only one way to avoid that. They need to do enough, fast enough, for Republican & "independent" voters to see a difference in their lives.

9th January 2021, 12:30 AM	#57
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,269	Originally Posted by Dave Rogers No, they don't. They have to do better than Trump and the GOP radicals told their supporters they did. Dave no. That is the classical double-standard, the built-in presumption that Dems need to do a flawless job to be considered only just as or a little bit less competent than Republicans who mess up completely and often intentionally. No question Biden, Harris and the rest of the party will do great things, but in 2022 and 2024, all that should matter to voters is whether they did better than Trump and his GOP to get them reelected. Don't put the bar to success too high for Democrats to achieve, and the bar to failure too low for Republicans not to clear it.
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10th January 2021, 07:54 AM	#58
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,360	Originally Posted by varwoche 1. Meet with Joe Manchin 2. 3. Profit Manchin's interview on CNN this morning makes it painfully clear how little progress lies ahead. As a reminder, Manchin is the reason the ACA didn't include a public option.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot. My authority is total - Trump