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Tags 2020 elections , donald trump , election conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump supporters

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Old 8th January 2021, 07:18 AM   #281
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
According to multiple reports, the woman killed was part of a group trying to break through the last door to the chamber where dozens of legislators were sheltering. If she herself wasn't an immediate threat to life, the raging mob certainly was. Putting the cop on leave is routine; it doesn't mean he did anything wrong.

And this was not a "few protesters." Hundreds, if not thousands of rioters roamed the building freely. Some were armed, and some assaulted police. One cop has died. They did extensive damage to the facility, and they stopped a joint session of Congress to ratify the next President. It will be a national humiliaton for decades that police allowed this to happen.
At least three bombs were found in DC.

These people came armed and with explosives and wearing "Civil War" shirts.

They were also white nationalists and nazis, but that is separate from the issue of what they were doing.
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:19 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I would disagree. I think no one deserves to be executed. The description of climbing through a window does not sound like she was an immediate threat to life. It should have been possible to subdue her using non lethal force. I do note the responsible officer has been suspended.

I understand the 'emotional' issue, the violation some US citizens feel. But this was a few protesters who broke into a public building. This happens all the time. They did not even organise a sit in! They did not line people up against the wall and shoot them; that is what happens in real coups.

Shooting demonstrators in the streets is what happens in third world countries, the outcome of the policing here was good one person shot is one too many. I am not sure what happened to the police officer who died, all that is said it was injuries occurring during the protest, this might mean he fell down stairs. Perhaps someone here knows the nature of his injuries?

That does not mean I support Trump or these right wing nut cases, I would politically be a Saunders supporter. But even right wing nut cases should not be shot down. Police violence does not become right when it is against your political opponents.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-brexit-debate
WHERE THE **** DID I ADVOCATE SHOOTING DEMONSTRATORS IN THE STREETS??? This woman was part of a mob of people who had destruction and lynching on their minds! This officer did the right thing! Other officers abdicated their duty to protect our duly elected representatives and the constitutional working of our government, and their actions endangered those who were inside the building! Every one of these cops who abdicated their duty should go to prison for being accessories! PERIOD!

I don't know what planet you live on, but on this planet, when a mob breaks into your house with weapons and intent to use them, you have every right to defend with whatever force is necessary and legal.

Your argument is ridiculous. There were thousands of people there, many of whom were armed. Hundreds of them broke into the building, not a few. These people were not "protestors" they were rioters.
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:20 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
At least three bombs were found in DC.

These people came armed and with explosives and wearing "Civil War" shirts.

They were also white nationalists and nazis, but that is separate from the issue of what they were doing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah ....... but the real threat comes from Muslims, AntiFa and BLM.
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:25 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I would disagree. I think no one deserves to be executed. The description of climbing through a window does not sound like she was an immediate threat to life. It should have been possible to subdue her using non lethal force. I do note the responsible officer has been suspended.

I understand the 'emotional' issue, the violation some US citizens feel. But this was a few protesters who broke into a public building. This happens all the time. They did not even organise a sit in! They did not line people up against the wall and shoot them; that is what happens in real coups.

Shooting demonstrators in the streets is what happens in third world countries, the outcome of the policing here was good one person shot is one too many. I am not sure what happened to the police officer who died, all that is said it was injuries occurring during the protest, this might mean he fell down stairs. Perhaps someone here knows the nature of his injuries?

That does not mean I support Trump or these right wing nut cases, I would politically be a Saunders supporter. But even right wing nut cases should not be shot down. Police violence does not become right when it is against your political opponents.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-brexit-debate
Is there any evidence at all that she was executed?
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:26 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
I spent most of the day thinking, "Trump tweeted while Washington burned...."
I kept wondering how many of the people storming the US Capitol and carrying Confederate flags were gasping in outrage when Colin Kaepernick took a knee during the National Anthem before a football game- "OMG! He's disrespecting the US!" Purt' near all of 'em, I would reckon. (And the ones who cheered when Kaepernick lost his job over his action are probably screaming "PC! PC!" over these "patriots" who have lost, or will lose, their jobs over being identifiably involved in this. Cry me a river.)
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Last edited by turingtest; 8th January 2021 at 08:50 AM. Reason: clarify
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:32 AM   #286
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Trump signed an executive order last summer giving 10 years automatic for desecrating national property.
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:37 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I would disagree. I think no one deserves to be executed. The description of climbing through a window does not sound like she was an immediate threat to life. It should have been possible to subdue her using non lethal force. I do note the responsible officer has been suspended.

I understand the 'emotional' issue, the violation some US citizens feel. But this was a few protesters who broke into a public building. This happens all the time. They did not even organise a sit in! They did not line people up against the wall and shoot them; that is what happens in real coups.

Shooting demonstrators in the streets is what happens in third world countries, the outcome of the policing here was good one person shot is one too many. I am not sure what happened to the police officer who died, all that is said it was injuries occurring during the protest, this might mean he fell down stairs. Perhaps someone here knows the nature of his injuries?

That does not mean I support Trump or these right wing nut cases, I would politically be a Saunders supporter. But even right wing nut cases should not be shot down. Police violence does not become right when it is against your political opponents.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-brexit-debate
Why do people feel the need to downplay what happened?

And more importantly, why do these same people think any of the rest of us are going to buy it? We all saw it happen live on television. We’ve seen all the horrific footage that’s been released in the interim. We know what happened. And it wasn’t “a few protesters who broke into a public building”.

Peddle your ******** elsewhere.

ETA: Oh, and that police officer whose death you’re downplaying and spreading lies about? He was murdered. He didn’t “fall down stairs”. He was bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher by the violent right wing terrorists who invaded the U.S. Capitol in an attempted coup.

Last edited by johnny karate; 8th January 2021 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:41 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Why do people feel the need to downplay what happened?

And more importantly, why do these same people think any of the rest of us are going to buy it? We all saw it happen live on television. We’ve seen all the horrific footage that’s been released in the interim. We know what happened. And it wasn’t “a few protesters who broke into a public building”.

Peddle your ******** elsewhere.
Agree with this. And the officer that died didn't fall down stairs. He was hit with a fire extinguisher in the head.

Eta : And in planigale's post the quote "Police violence does not become right when it is against your political opponents." - it wasn't political opponents, it may have been political allies - half the cops may be Trump supporters. I don't know, and neither do you. What it really was is an intruder v. police.
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:44 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Trump signed an executive order last summer giving 10 years automatic for desecrating national property.
And the irony will be lost on the rioters convicted under it.
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:48 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
They didn't do more damage, simply because the security cop shot that 'protester' dead. That stopped them surging in.
That cop deserves a medal and a promotion. The cops who took down barricades and let people in, and who gave directions to offices and posed for selfies, should be fired, prosecuted, and spend the next 10 years in prison!
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:48 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
And the irony will be lost on the rioters convicted under it.
No judge will impose that. Trump's EO can't apply to the judiciary.
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:51 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't feel bad for him. I do however, feel bad for his family.
Wars have collateral damage. If you don't want to hurt your family, don't go off to war.

I say tough **** to him. How many children have been orphaned when parents died of Covid? Trump should personally pay child support for them.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:00 AM   #293
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The cop sho shot the protester has been suspended - which tells us ABSOLUTLY NOTHING.

They ALL get placed on admin leave after a shooting, no matter how obviously justified. A cop who shoots someone gets put on leave - that's normal now.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:10 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Probably not too relevant but the policeman was also a Trump supporter.

He died fighting the same people the man he supports inspired.
Right-wingers will just use that as more "evidence" that all the violence was antifa/blm.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:12 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Unless Trump pardons them all (is that even possible?), some of the rioters will face serious charges and rather long prison sentences, and deservedly so.

The sad and infuriating thing is that the instigators, the Trumps, Giuliani, Cruz, Hawley, Gohmert e tutti quanti will be either pardoned (the Trumps, Giuliani), or are extremely unlikely to ever face any real consequence for what they did.
It should be noted that in addition to all of the instigators in the GOP, six Republican lawmakers actively took part in this violent terrorist act.

Let that sink in.

There’s been a lot of talk about what the response would have been had this been a BLM protest, but imagine if on top of that, six Democratic lawmakers took part in an attempted coup.

Do you think that anyone on the Right would ever forgive that? Do you think that anyone on the Right would ever let that go and not tar and feather every Democrat with it until the end of time?

Everyone should keep that in mind in the coming weeks, months, and years as we watch these disingenuous scumbags in the GOP feign indignation at the idea of being associated with the violent terrorist attack that their party committed.

The rot in the Republican Party is deep and profound.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:18 AM   #296
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Again we can point out that "Well if the left had done this..." all day long and let me be one hundred percent very clear here we would be absolutely right do to do so.

But that doesn't change they fact that it won't matter and it won't change because the Republicans don't care.

They don't care that they are hypocrites, they don't care that they have double standards, they don't care that X would happen differently if the shoe was on the other foot.

They go into every discussion, every scenario, every debate with one simple assumption already in place... "We're already correct. We're the real Americans."

Of course they don't follow the same rules as the Left. That's insane. That's like wanting to know why prison guards and prisoners don't have to follow the same rules. That's like wanting to know why parents get to dictate bed time to their children but children don't get to dictate bedtime to their parents. There's no double standard, that's silly. One side is just already by fiat the correct one.

They grab power because they honestly and deeply believe they are entitled to it. So there's nothing else to prove and nothing else to earn for them.

And all it's lead to is... well them winning. They have 3 Justices on the Supreme Court, we didn't get any. There will be less political and legal blowback from this insurrection at the Capitol then the Democrats have gotten from Hillary's e-mails.

They get their way and win because they have no standards to hold them back.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:23 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The cop sho shot the protester has been suspended - which tells us ABSOLUTLY NOTHING.

They ALL get placed on admin leave after a shooting, no matter how obviously justified. A cop who shoots someone gets put on leave - that's normal now.
My worry is that although he was wearing a mask, he will be recognisable. He'll need to have his ID changed.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:38 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Trump signed an executive order last summer giving 10 years automatic for desecrating national property.

Things like that are only supposed to benefit them and hurt "the other guy", not vice versa.
It's like the state legislatures that approved government funding for religious schools and were horrified to discover that Muslim schools were eligible.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:39 AM   #299
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Another concern: Superspreader event.
Quote:
Thousands of Trump supporters dismissive of the virus’s threat packed together with few face coverings — shouting, jostling and forcing their way indoors to halt certification of the election results, many converging from out of town at the president’s urging. Police rushed hundreds of members of Congress to crowded quarters where legislators say some of their colleagues refused to wear masks as well.

“This was in some many ways an extraordinarily dangerous event yesterday, not only from the security aspects but from the public health aspects, and there will be a fair amount of disease that comes from it,” said Eric Toner, senior scholar at the John Hopkins Center for Health Security.
.....

“It is a very real possibility that this will lead to a major outbreak but one that we may or may not be able to recognize,” said Toner. “All the cases to likely derive from this event will likely be lost in the huge number of cases we have in the country right now.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...l-coronavirus/
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Old 8th January 2021, 09:11 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If it was an actual planned coup attempt it was not very well planned or coupy enough.
I am not sure why you are surprised at Trump's omniincompetence. He is incompetent in everything, including things that would be beneficial for him if properly done, like COVID response... or this half-assed stupid coup attempt. I think weeks ago someone linked article about stupid coup attempts and how they ended mere months later.

Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I think no one deserves to be executed. (...) But this was a few protesters who broke into a public building. This happens all the time. (...) I am not sure what happened to the police officer who died, all that is said it was injuries occurring during the protest, this might mean he fell down stairs.
What it is with Trump apologists always lying about what happened?
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:00 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
That cop deserves a medal and a promotion. The cops who took down barricades and let people in, and who gave directions to offices and posed for selfies, should be fired, prosecuted, and spend the next 10 years in prison!
Why are so many people hung up over the selfies? What if the cops who posed for selfies had less hostile crowds, and the mad dogging weekend warriors were the ones who got overwhelmed? I don't have any evidence either way, but it's not obvious to me what happened.

During BLM, obviously, there were cops who took a knee. Later on they'd beat the **** out of protestors. That could be the case here as well.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:04 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Why are so many people hung up over the selfies? What if the cops who posed for selfies had less hostile crowds, and the mad dogging weekend warriors were the ones who got overwhelmed? I don't have any evidence either way, but it's not obvious to me what happened.

During BLM, obviously, there were cops who took a knee. Later on they'd beat the **** out of protestors. That could be the case here as well.


It's be hilarious if the selfies turned out to be a sting job. "Hey, yeah, that's a great one! Upload it and tag me on FaceBook!" "Pssst...Sarge! Add another one to the warrant list!"

You just know they'd fall for it.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:14 AM   #303
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I am a Canadian yet I think I have found the perfect song that should sum up what Americans should be thinking about Trump right now.

Donna Summers & Barbara Streisand - Enough is Enough!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5i2Dj5YO3Q
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:34 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Why are so many people hung up over the selfies? What if the cops who posed for selfies had less hostile crowds, and the mad dogging weekend warriors were the ones who got overwhelmed? I don't have any evidence either way, but it's not obvious to me what happened.

During BLM, obviously, there were cops who took a knee. Later on they'd beat the **** out of protestors. That could be the case here as well.
Somewhere around here is a video of a cop waving the insurrectionists through those bike rack barriers; he needs to be gone, and right quick.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:38 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I watched the video where the woman was shot and went down. One of the trumpers could be heard yelling "why did they have to shoot her?".

It's all fun and games until the cops don't understand that your coup attempt is just innocent LARPing :rolleyes: .
Ultimate entitlement; these idiots really, really imagined they had every right to violently enter the Capitol, and put everyone there in danger because their dear leader said it was fine. There have to be consequences for these morons.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:45 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Why are so many people hung up over the selfies? What if the cops who posed for selfies had less hostile crowds, and the mad dogging weekend warriors were the ones who got overwhelmed? I don't have any evidence either way, but it's not obvious to me what happened.

During BLM, obviously, there were cops who took a knee. Later on they'd beat the **** out of protestors. That could be the case here as well.
Because the selfies were taken on the Capitol grounds. It was illegal for those people to be on Capitol grounds. Those cops were taking selfies with people in the process of actively committing a crime.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:48 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I ask because Elizabeth from Tennessee admitted that she was attempting to have a revolution.
Presumably Elizabeth does not speak for all Animaniacs and much less the Warner siblings: Yakko, Wakko, and Dot. Surely they are innocent!
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:50 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Probably not too relevant but the policeman was also a Trump supporter.

He died fighting the same people the man he supports inspired.
Not that your story isn't believable....

But do you have a reference to show that that was the case (that the policeman was a Trump supporter)? I've tried googling it, but just come up with general articles about the riot.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:51 AM   #309
Regnad Kcin
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Nope. Already on Ebay.
It's stolen property. I'd expect the listing removed any moment.

ETA: ninja'd by rdaneel
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Old 8th January 2021, 11:04 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Is there any evidence at all that she was executed?
No. There's no evidence that she was executed.

It's bad that she was shot but that officer was protecting a retreat route for legislators as well as access to the locations where they were retreating to. She was one person breaking through but it would have reasonably looked to that officer like if she had she broken through a mob would have followed her.

Now you have a mob with access to legislators and Pence. No one should want that particular situation to happen and, in fact, at that moment that officer's job was precisely to avoid that situation. Taking a chance of that happening would have risked being an extremely poor choice (to make a gross understatement).
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Old 8th January 2021, 11:10 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Not that your story isn't believable....

But do you have a reference to show that that was the case (that the policeman was a Trump supporter)? I've tried googling it, but just come up with general articles about the riot.
https://heavy.com/news/brian-sicknick/

His twitter account has a picture of Trump's plane. I think they locked the account.
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Old 8th January 2021, 11:13 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Somewhere around here is a video of a cop waving the insurrectionists through those bike rack barriers; he needs to be gone, and right quick.
I've got to wonder if that's a real cop, or if real, not an actual Capitol Police cop.

He's all by himself. He's running toward the barricades with no other cops around. His uniform doesn't look like what the Capitol Police were wearing.

It's also possible that he is waving somebody in the crowd forward, not meaning the entire crowd. e.g. going to find a medic and get them in.

Investigators will be able to figure out some of those answers. If he really is a Capitol Police officer it should be possible to ID the guy and yes, if he is doing what he appears to be doing he will at least be fired and probably be charged.
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Old 8th January 2021, 11:15 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
I am a Canadian yet I think I have found the perfect song that should sum up what Americans should be thinking about Trump right now.

Donna Summers & Barbara Streisand - Enough is Enough!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5i2Dj5YO3Q
I prefer "They Are Coming To Take Me Away,Ha Ha" by Napoleon the 14th.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-lJZiqZaGA
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Old 8th January 2021, 11:18 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I've got to wonder if that's a real cop, or if real, not an actual Capitol Police cop.

He's all by himself. He's running toward the barricades with no other cops around. His uniform doesn't look like what the Capitol Police were wearing.

It's also possible that he is waving somebody in the crowd forward, not meaning the entire crowd. e.g. going to find a medic and get them in.

Investigators will be able to figure out some of those answers. If he really is a Capitol Police officer it should be possible to ID the guy and yes, if he is doing what he appears to be doing he will at least be fired and probably be charged.
I've seen a slightly longer video that wasn't any more informative; I'd like to think that the cops was waving for other cop to follow him, but . . .
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Old 8th January 2021, 11:57 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I would disagree. I think no one deserves to be executed. The description of climbing through a window does not sound like she was an immediate threat to life. It should have been possible to subdue her using non lethal force. I do note the responsible officer has been suspended.

I understand the 'emotional' issue, the violation some US citizens feel. But this was a few protesters who broke into a public building. This happens all the time. They did not even organise a sit in! They did not line people up against the wall and shoot them; that is what happens in real coups.

Shooting demonstrators in the streets is what happens in third world countries, the outcome of the policing here was good one person shot is one too many. I am not sure what happened to the police officer who died, all that is said it was injuries occurring during the protest, this might mean he fell down stairs. Perhaps someone here knows the nature of his injuries?

That does not mean I support Trump or these right wing nut cases, I would politically be a Saunders supporter. But even right wing nut cases should not be shot down. Police violence does not become right when it is against your political opponents.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-brexit-debate
She was part of a mob. Including people like this:
ErI1ne4XMAICBGy.jpg

It's entirely justified violence to shout at a mob to fall back, and then when one tries to come into the room you're sheltering potential hostages, to fire a single shot.

The protestors were not playing. Some were just idiots, but enough were full on terrorists.
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Old 8th January 2021, 12:12 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
https://heavy.com/news/brian-sicknick/

His twitter account has a picture of Trump's plane. I think they locked the account.
That heavy article has a link to a video that I had not previously seen of the police getting overwhelmed at one of the barricades.

https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/st...an-sicknick%2F
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Old 8th January 2021, 12:42 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I would disagree. I think no one deserves to be executed. The description of climbing through a window does not sound like she was an immediate threat to life. It should have been possible to subdue her using non lethal force. I do note the responsible officer has been suspended.

I understand the 'emotional' issue, the violation some US citizens feel. But this was a few protesters who broke into a public building. This happens all the time. They did not even organise a sit in! They did not line people up against the wall and shoot them; that is what happens in real coups.

Shooting demonstrators in the streets is what happens in third world countries, the outcome of the policing here was good one person shot is one too many. I am not sure what happened to the police officer who died, all that is said it was injuries occurring during the protest, this might mean he fell down stairs. Perhaps someone here knows the nature of his injuries?

That does not mean I support Trump or these right wing nut cases, I would politically be a Saunders supporter. But even right wing nut cases should not be shot down. Police violence does not become right when it is against your political opponents.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-brexit-debate
No one should be "executed" but that isn't what happened. An armed mob mounted an insurrection on the Capitol while our political leaders were conducting the transition of power. And a police officer defending that process shot a member of that mob.

What do you think they should do? Open the doors and end democracy?

I'm a peaceful guy, but there is always a point when you have to stand up.
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Old 8th January 2021, 12:51 PM   #318
Planigale
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Is there any evidence at all that she was executed?
I suppose this all depends on definitions. Merriam-Webster 'a putting to death especially as a legal penalty'. She was deliberately put to death. If she was climbing through the window she was of no immediate threat to anybody. Was she armed? I don't know, does anyone here? I still rest with the issue that non-lethal force was available. The potential of what someone else might do is not justification for killing another person. Killing her to discourage others is not a justification for homicide. I would be happy to substitute 'homicide', 'murder', 'kill'.

I do recognise that many of these people were armed. I think the second amendment is stupid and this is a direct consequence of the second amendment, indeed one can say this was the justification for the second amendment. But a key thing (one that one can hear in every dubious shooting of a black man by a LEO) "once you draw your weapon like that, you have to defend yourself with deadly force." No, a police officer drawing a weapon does not mean that by merely drawing his weapon he is justified in using it.

I think posters here do not know what terrorism is. Terrorists would have roamed the corridors shooting everyone they saw, terrorists do not target. This was not terrorism. They were not a radical political group who took hostages and entered into negotiations, they were not political activists who occupied the capitol with a lock in. I have heard no report that a single shot was fired by these rioters*. (I may be wrong and if so I anticipate a stream of corrections.) They stole a podium.

If police officers (or anyone else) were assaulted then the individuals concerned should be prosecuted. I do not defend attacking a police officer with an extinguisher (I have not seen a report of this, but I am sure that the poster who said this knows this as a fact, and I accept this). But this does not justify killing other people.

These maybe horrible neo-nazi scum but they need their rights defended in the same way as every other human.

I think it is deeply sad the police officer died, however it happened. I think it is sad that others died who perhaps might not have had there not been a riot. I am not sad a weirdo right wing Trumpist woman died, but I still thinking shooting her in the face when she was climbing in through a window was unnecessary. I know 'stand your ground' is a US thing, but I do not think this is a reason for killing someone.

ETA
* Within the capitol

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Old 8th January 2021, 12:54 PM   #319
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“But this was a few protesters who broke into a public building.”

That can’t be serious, right?
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Old 8th January 2021, 12:57 PM   #320
timhau
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
“But this was a few protesters who broke into a public building.”

That can’t be serious, right?
That sounds like a couple of youngsters breaking into the local branch library.
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