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Tags centrism , neoliberalism , progressivism , socialism

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Old 6th March 2019, 11:37 AM   #81
dudalb
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If the Dems goes the "We Don't Need No Stinking Centrist" route, Trump will be easily relected. There is no vast hidden "Progressive" vote out there like some people think.
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Old 6th March 2019, 12:04 PM   #82
varwoche
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
If the Dems goes the "We Don't Need No Stinking Centrist" route, Trump will be easily relected. There is no vast hidden "Progressive" vote out there like some people think.
It's not impossible for Bernie to beat Trump, depending on the economy and mood swings of the dimwitted electorate. In addition to his "normal" supporters, he can draw Trump supporters who are drawn to an angry, white, anti establishment dude. It's high risk though.

Of course, Bernie has no better chance of implementing universal health care than any other candidate, that being zero percent chance.
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Old 6th March 2019, 12:10 PM   #83
dudalb
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
It's not impossible for Bernie to beat Trump, depending on the economy and mood swings of the dimwitted electorate. In addition to his "normal" supporters, he can draw Trump supporters who are drawn to an angry, white, anti establishment dude. It's high risk though.

Of course, Bernie has no better chance of implementing universal health care than any other candidate, that being zero percent chance.
Point is that candidates more moderate then Bernie have a much better chance of getting Trump out of office.
And IMHO that should be the single biggest concer in 2020. Trump consituties a clear and present danger to Democracy in the US. That overrides everything else.
And the problem with UHC is that though most Americans want it, they strongly disagree about how to implement it.
I predict that whatever UCH plan eventually happens, it is going to be different then any other UCH out there. It will have to provide the individual with a huge amount of choice...choice is very important to most Amercans. They love the ability to "go to the shop across the Street".
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Old 6th March 2019, 01:21 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
If the Dems goes the "We Don't Need No Stinking Centrist" route, Trump will be easily relected. There is no vast hidden "Progressive" vote out there like some people think.
I am constantly reminded of how American Liberals and American conservatives view themselves in very similar lights.

They often seem to think they have the silent majority(the hidden voters you mention)
The often see themselves as constantly losing.
They often see themselves as the undercutting themselves by infighting and backbiting within the ranks but see the other side as basically united.
They generally see their elected officials as spineless and knuckling under to the other side or see elected officials as RINOs or I supposed DINOs. I haven't seen dino's used(weird because its way better than RINO) but I've definitely seen Dem Politicians criticized for being too centrist.

Varwoche has a point about Bernie though, he probably can draw away some of Trumps vote. Its hard to say what the best bet is for the dems. A more left leaning firebrand candidate would probably poach some of Trumps voters but they might alienate more moderate voters. A moderate(in tone) centrist might get the vote of the 10-20% of Republican voters that are nearly as horrified by Trump as the left. Those voters are much more likely to vote than the angry working class types that Trump attracts.

I'm not sure if I could vote for bernie honestly, a left wing populist vs a right wing populist, I might just choose a third party in that election.

Last edited by ahhell; 6th March 2019 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 6th March 2019, 10:07 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No. The consensus is that social media is a toxic dump and you shouldn't look to it for information about anything.

And Bernie Sanders calls himself a socialist. I'm OK with taking him at his word.

If you keep yelling at that cloud it might eventually go away.


Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The best way to get the best results for the most people is to put someone in charge who knows what's best, and empower them to summarily execute anyone who gets in the way of that goal.

Think of it as applied Darwinism. Two generations of this program, and humanity would consist almost entirely of people committed to the cause.

The good news is that we can count on a plucky teenage girl to start the revolution and win The Hunger Games.


Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
If we're talking presidential candidates, Sanders is possibly an actual socialist at heart, but he is running on a progressive social democrat platform.

All the others are neolibs.

Okay, what differentiates them from Bernie?
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Old 6th March 2019, 11:01 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
If you keep yelling at that cloud it might eventually go away.
Are you under the impression that Ziggurat wants social media to go away? Because thatís no where implied in anything he said. He only suggested that you would be better off not using it, which doesnít require its nonexistence. It only requires you to turn off your phone (and maybe go outside), which is entirely possible and not even particularly difficult.
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Old 6th March 2019, 11:59 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
If you keep yelling at that cloud it might eventually go away.
Is Trump the cloud in this analogy? Because your yelling is not working, Travis.
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Old 8th March 2019, 05:39 AM   #88
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I don't like allowing misinformation to spread and stand unchallenged. That is why I came to this place so long ago, to do battle with conspiracy theorists.
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Old 8th March 2019, 05:49 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I don't like allowing misinformation to spread and stand unchallenged. That is why I came to this place so long ago, to do battle with conspiracy theorists.
Sounds good on paper. The problem occurs when you assign excessive weight to random bozos on the internet, and when you irrationally extrapolate, and when you paint with a broad brush in response. And when you're stewing in antagonism more so than standing for truth and justice.
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Old 8th March 2019, 09:59 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Okay, what differentiates them from Bernie?
Look up their history.
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