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Tags donald trump , mental illness issues , psychiatry incidents , psychiatry issues , Trump controversies

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Old 14th March 2019, 04:51 PM   #1481
theprestige
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
First person to quote me saying that Trump is "restrained and moderate" gets a free pizza.
Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
And I’ll throw in a beer.


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Put me down for a dozen boutique donuts.
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Old 14th March 2019, 06:42 PM   #1482
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The interesting thing about "Tim Apple" is that he also called Marillyn Hewson "Marillyn Lockheed", so it's part of a pattern. That one flew under the radar at the time because (wait for it)... his critics preferred back then to react to his having equated stealth technology with invisibility. (I really didn't see a big deal about that one myself; people who actually work with those planes every day use that kind of metaphor every day. It doesn't mean thinking the planes are actually invisible.)

Notice that the only things he ever ran (and cared about, so the USA doesn't count), have always had his name on them. Maybe he's using that as his model for how to connect companies with their owners or CEOs in his mind.

Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
First person to quote me saying that Trump is "restrained and moderate" gets a free pizza.
Ya, his supporters definitely don't generally claim that. They admit he has no restraint and say that's what makes him so great, because they associate restraint with fakery, so not only is everybody with restraint fake, but the only person around without it is the only person around who's not fake.
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Old 15th March 2019, 02:03 AM   #1483
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Related: "Are Politicians Psychopaths?"
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Old 15th March 2019, 05:47 AM   #1484
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Put me down for a dozen boutique donuts.
So you guys identify yourselves as Trump apologists even while acknowledging that he's nowhere close to "restrained and moderate?"
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Old 15th March 2019, 05:53 AM   #1485
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
So you guys identify yourselves as Trump apologists even while acknowledging that he's nowhere close to "restrained and moderate?"
I feel like a lot of our conversations would have been a lot more productive if you had figured this out and acknowledged it two years ago.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:15 AM   #1486
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I feel like a lot of our conversations would have been a lot more productive if you had figured this out and acknowledged it two years ago.
So you see yourself as a Trump apologist? You know that's not a compliment, right?
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:29 AM   #1487
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
So you guys identify yourselves as Trump apologists even while acknowledging that he's nowhere close to "restrained and moderate?"
Straw men and "gotcha" moments really have no place on a skeptics forum. If the posters in this thread would engage honestly, we'd be in a much better place.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:12 AM   #1488
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Straw men and "gotcha" moments really have no place on a skeptics forum. If the posters in this thread would engage honestly, we'd be in a much better place.

Trump is a clear and present danger to America and the world. Anybody who enables or rationalizes him is no better.

Another take from a non-shrink:
Quote:
Trump’s obvious mental instability and emotionally erratic behavior has reached a harrowing new depth. They need to be addressed by our political leadership with the same urgency as the myriad investigations into his crimes. This has to begin now before it’s too late. He will clearly do and say whatever it takes to secure his status, and it’s the presidency alone that’s keeping him out of federal prison. He’s at least competent enough to understand this, and he might be crazy enough to do anything to avoid accountability. We’re in new territory. There is no road map, and what we do now will determine whether Trump is the last Trump, or possibly the first of many Trumps along the not-so-lengthy journey into a permanent form of lunatic authoritarianism. It’s time to take his madness seriously now before he levels-up again.
https://www.salon.com/2019/03/06/som...es-about-that/
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:31 AM   #1489
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Quote:
it’s the presidency alone that’s keeping him out of federal prison
He avoided federal prison for 70 years but now it's only the presidency that keeps him out. Similarly, Dr. Lee thought that most non-trumpy people would have been caught up in the mental health system by now. They have constructed a Dr. Evil cartoon and are bayoneting this straw man for all it's worth.

Quote:
....possibly the first of many Trumps along the not-so-lengthy journey into a permanent form of lunatic authoritarianism
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:55 AM   #1490
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
He avoided federal prison for 70 years but now it's only the presidency that keeps him out. Similarly, Dr. Lee thought that most non-trumpy people would have been caught up in the mental health system by now. They have constructed a Dr. Evil cartoon and are bayoneting this straw man for all it's worth.
During his 70 years as a small-time hustler, he did little to attract major legal scrutiny (although he was associated with literally thousands of civil law suits, including the Trump. U. scam). The Presidency is a uniquely different league. Just as somebody can drive drunk for 70 years unhindered and finally get locked up after he runs over schoolkids in a crosswalk, Trump has been revealed. His words, his thinking, his behavior speak for themselves; nobody needs to build a straw man.
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Old 15th March 2019, 10:28 AM   #1491
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Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness', say psychiatry experts at Yale... Pt 2

Now you’re redefining “small time hustler” to mean something else, so add “special pleading” to the list. Every time I leave my home I see the word “Trump” in 20 foot high letters on a 90 story building. The Apprentice was near the top of the ratings for years.

Last edited by carlitos; 15th March 2019 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:41 AM   #1492
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And
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Now you’re redefining “small time hustler” to mean something else, so add “special pleading” to the list. Every time I leave my home I see the word “Trump” in 20 foot high letters on a 90 story building. The Apprentice was near the top of the ratings for years.
Nonetheless, the inescapable fact remains. Trump *currently* is in legal jeopardy. However he may have skated by previously is moot. Right now, *at this moment*, the only thing keeping him from being haled before a court is his position. He wants things to stay that way--unless he can make it all just go away.

How he might try to make permanent his invulnerability, or to make it all go away is what concerns many observers.

Last edited by Lurch; 15th March 2019 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:05 PM   #1493
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I don't think Trump believes he could possibly go to jail. After all, he has not been held responsible for anything he's done in his life. Either Daddy took care of things (bonespurs, bailing him out of financial problems), he's paid off people (McDougall, S. Daniels, etc), had his lawyers work out deals where he hasn't had to admit guilt (profiling renters ) or he has settled out of court (Trump U). Trump believes he will never be held accountable for anything he does because he's a "stable genius" who can outwit and outplay everyone else.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:01 PM   #1494
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Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
That's not relevant if you are trying to normalize Trump as just like other politicians.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:02 PM   #1495
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Straw men and "gotcha" moments really have no place on a skeptics forum. If the posters in this thread would engage honestly, we'd be in a much better place.
Care to name names and post quotes?
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:06 PM   #1496
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I'll pass. I don't think that you two are arguing honestly at this point, and I'm just dropping out.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:26 PM   #1497
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
So you see yourself as a Trump apologist? You know that's not a compliment, right?
I've been engaging in Trump apologetics since before the election.

I know you have a low opinion of people who do that, but I'm not going to change my position just because you have uncomplimentary things to say about me. Especially if the uncomplimentary thing you come up with is "Trump apologist". I'm sure that term has all sorts of unpleasant baggage for you, but it's not actually a compelling counter argument for me. Your baggage is your problem, not mine.

I mean, you only just now realized that someone could do Trump apologetics without subscribing to the "restrained and moderate" idea. Even though xjx388 has been saying varitions of that consistently throughout this thread. And what's your reaction to this discovery? Not new understanding and a shift in tone. No, instead, your reaction is to lash out, to threaten me with your disapproval, because I don't exhibit Correct Thought.

Last edited by theprestige; 15th March 2019 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 15th March 2019, 02:50 PM   #1498
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I'll pass. I don't think that you two are arguing honestly at this point, and I'm just dropping out.
You two?

If you think I'm not arguing honestly then you are wrong, simple as that. And I don't need points, I've been right from the start and that POV has only been reinforced.
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Old 15th March 2019, 02:55 PM   #1499
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Care to name names and post quotes?
Bob001 first.
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Old 15th March 2019, 05:34 PM   #1500
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Now you’re redefining “small time hustler” to mean something else, so add “special pleading” to the list. Every time I leave my home I see the word “Trump” in 20 foot high letters on a 90 story building. The Apprentice was near the top of the ratings for years.

You've drunk the Kool-Aid. The ratings for Apprentice/Celebrity Apprentice plummeted after the first two seasons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ap...#Controversies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Celebrity_Apprentice

And have you actually counted those stories? Trump's been known to "adjust" the numbers.
Quote:
Then there is the Trump World Tower on the East Side, built in 2001, which enraged antagonists as varied as Walter Cronkite (whose views it blocked) and the United Nations (whose height it dwarfed). At 90 stories and 900 feet — actually 70 and 843, according to Buildings Department records — the World Tower was once billed as the “tallest residential tower in the world,” until it was overtaken by a skyscraper in Dubai, prompting Mr. Trump to switch to a less easily fact-checked superlative: “most luxurious.”
.....
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/02/n...r-heights.html
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Old 16th March 2019, 12:34 AM   #1501
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That's not relevant if you are trying to normalize Trump as just like other politicians.
It's not relevant if you are not aware of warmongering of previous Presidents, including Bush and Obama.
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Old 16th March 2019, 02:43 PM   #1502
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Straw men and "gotcha" moments really have no place on a skeptics forum. If the posters in this thread would engage honestly, we'd be in a much better place.
You mean like this?
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Anyone who has ever read the reviews on Amazon can see how unlike "peer review" they can be.


Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Now you’re redefining “small time hustler” to mean something else, so add “special pleading” to the list.
Typical. Toss out a supposed fallacy and don´t ever explain why you think it is applicable. Sure, you could turn it about and claim it´s so self-explanatory as to not need it, but that´s not necessarily the case and therefore if you were actually interested in honest debate and claiming the high-ground, you´d have no problem in clarifying the point. Otherwise, your concern trolling is laid bare for all to see.


Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
It's not relevant if you are not aware of warmongering of previous Presidents, including Bush and Obama.
We´re all aware of the previous war-mongering. So what? What´s your point here?
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Old 16th March 2019, 02:47 PM   #1503
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Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
It's not relevant if you are not aware of warmongering of previous Presidents, including Bush and Obama.
I am well aware of Bush and Obama and all the warmongering from both of them.

But neither one had a pathological personality disorder.
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Old 16th March 2019, 05:26 PM   #1504
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I am well aware of Bush and Obama and all the warmongering from both of them.



But neither one had a pathological personality disorder.


How do you know? That’s a genuine question.


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Old 16th March 2019, 08:34 PM   #1505
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
How do you know? That’s a genuine question.
You know goddamn well how I know. Go re-read the first 10 pages.

The reason you don't is because you think reading about psych diagnoses on the net makes you knowledgable and in your case it doesn't.
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Old 16th March 2019, 08:52 PM   #1506
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
How do you know? That’s a genuine question.


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The more correct statement SG could have posited is that the other ("warmonger") Presidents didn't *demonstrate* or *evince* a pathology. Trump certainly does. Whether genuine or a put-on, the effect would seem to be the same.

In the end, why obsess over *precisely why* someone is bad at their job? The results are what ultimately matter when it comes down to either retaining the incumbent or tossing him out.

Trump defenders are supporting a monumental incompetent of staggering proportion, and one who looks out for himself, not his 'employer'. They are approving what would get the humblest underling in any organization the pink slip in a NY second. Most peons have at most a 6-month probationary period. POTUS gets 4 years. And this one would require more than a lifetime due to that calcified block between his ears.
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Old 16th March 2019, 08:55 PM   #1507
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
How do you know? That’s a genuine question.


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Neither of them displayed any evidence of any such disorder, nor did anyone who worked with them, including their political adversaries, report or any observations of any such apparent disorder or disability.

Is that better?

Also, what is Tapatalk and why do you keep telling us you use it?
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Old 16th March 2019, 11:11 PM   #1508
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
How do you know? That’s a genuine question.

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I'd describe it as a knee jerk reaction question rather than a 'genuine' one. A question which you could have answered yourself if you had given it two seconds of thought first.
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Old 17th March 2019, 02:02 AM   #1509
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
How do you know? That’s a genuine question.


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He tells lies when they don't matter to anyone other than him and where everyone can see he's a liar. He certainly gives a good impression of a compulsive liar.

ETA, that's the short answer
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Old 17th March 2019, 02:27 AM   #1510
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Trump is a textbook compulsive liar, since he lies even if there is absolutely no reason to do so.
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Old 17th March 2019, 12:52 PM   #1511
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You know goddamn well how I know. Go re-read the first 10 pages.

The reason you don't is because you think reading about psych diagnoses on the net makes you knowledgable and in your case it doesn't.


You don’t know if they did or not because you’ve never met them. Plain and simple. Just as you don’t know whether or not Trump is mentally ill. You might have an educated guess and that’s fine, but you simply don’t know.


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Old 17th March 2019, 01:17 PM   #1512
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The reason you don't is because you think reading about psych diagnoses on the net makes you knowledgable and in your case it doesn't.
How does this work, then? The Yale Group publishes their diagnosis online (among other places), and we read about it. But it doesn't actually make us knowledgeable? What's the point, then?

Same thing with your posts. We're reading what you have to say about psych diagnoses online, but if it doesn't make us knowledgeable, why bother? Why should we assume your arguments are any more informative than those of the APA, or the Yale Group?

Or was that just a personal attack on xjx?
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Old 17th March 2019, 01:24 PM   #1513
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Trump is a textbook compulsive liar, since he lies even if there is absolutely no reason to do so.
Except when he's telling the truth because you need it for your narrative.

Take that Access Hollywood clip, for example. Was he literally telling the truth? Or was he figuratively telling the truth? Or was he just lying to try to fit in to a Hollywood culture of sexual exploitation?

Show me someone who says that Trump is a pathological liar who lies about everything all the time whether it benefits him or not, and I'll show you someone who takes it as an article of faith that he was telling the truth about "pussy grabbing".
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Old 17th March 2019, 02:00 PM   #1514
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Except when he's telling the truth because you need it for your narrative.
Claiming that somebody is a compulsive liar and lies even when he doesn't need to is not the same as saying that literally everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie.

Quote:
Take that Access Hollywood clip, for example. Was he literally telling the truth? Or was he figuratively telling the truth? Or was he just lying to try to fit in to a Hollywood culture of sexual exploitation?
So either he is somebody who sexually assaults women or he thinks it is impressive to pretend to be somebody who sexually assaults women. I guess the latter is better than the former, but it's still not good.

Can you explain why he lied about the "Tim Apple" thing? He misspoke. It's recorded for all to see and yet instead of holding his hand up for a really trivial mistake, he lied. Why?
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Old 17th March 2019, 02:13 PM   #1515
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
Claiming that somebody is a compulsive liar and lies even when he doesn't need to is not the same as saying that literally everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie.


So either he is somebody who sexually assaults women or he thinks it is impressive to pretend to be somebody who sexually assaults women. I guess the latter is better than the former, but it's still not good.

Can you explain why he lied about the "Tim Apple" thing? He misspoke. It's recorded for all to see and yet instead of holding his hand up for a really trivial mistake, he lied. Why?
The evidence is that both are true. He did think it impressive - like a teenage boy with the emotional maturity of a two-year old. Lots of women have also said that he has sexually assaulted them.

And yes, the Tim Apple thing is a very good example. His lame attempt to cover it up and keep coming back to it is very odd if you think he's not abnormal.

I was going to say that he says whatever he thinks makes Trump look good, but because he's so self-centred he often can't tell the difference between what makes him look good, and what makes him look like a creep - like a teenage boy with the emotional maturity of a two-year old.
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Old 17th March 2019, 02:16 PM   #1516
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
You don’t know if they did or not because you’ve never met them. Plain and simple. Just as you don’t know whether or not Trump is mentally ill. You might have an educated guess and that’s fine, but you simply don’t know.
Round and round the mulberry bush...
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Old 17th March 2019, 09:34 PM   #1517
xjx388
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Round and round the mulberry bush...
Dodge.

You have said you know because you are an FNP. You know because it’s obvious. You know because these professionals have said it. You know because he has all the DSM criteria.

None of that counts as knowing. It counts as you making a guess. An informed guess. A guess based on the evidence as you see it. I don’t even begrudge you having that opinion as a layperson (and please stop trying to claim expertise). I even agree with it. All that is really a red herring.

Mental health professionals publicly stating an educated guess as a professional opinion? That’s the real problem here.


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Old 17th March 2019, 09:48 PM   #1518
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Dodge.
Yeah right.

Give it up dude, now you're just floundering.

Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
You have said you know because you are an FNP. You know because it’s obvious. You know because these professionals have said it. You know because he has all the DSM criteria.
Yes. Yes. Yes. And Yes.

So where's the friggin' dodge?

Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
None of that counts as knowing. It counts as you making a guess. An informed guess. A guess based on the evidence as you see it. I don’t even begrudge you having that opinion as a layperson (and please stop trying to claim expertise). I even agree with it. All that is really a red herring.

Mental health professionals publicly stating an educated guess as a professional opinion? That’s the real problem here.
Sorry, you calling it a "guess" doesn't make it so. It's like the flu vaccine argument I hear every year, claiming the formula is a "guess" when it's based on careful monitoring of the genetic drift of the influenza virus by worldwide sampling.

You either don't understand the diagnostic criteria and how the evidence Trump has NPD is overwhelming, or, you're still digging your heels in when you should have conceded about 30 pages ago.
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Old 18th March 2019, 06:49 AM   #1519
xjx388
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Yeah right.



Give it up dude, now you're just floundering.



Yes. Yes. Yes. And Yes.



So where's the friggin' dodge?
Your whole argument is a dodge. You just admitted to a really bad argument based on appeals to authority, irrelevant claims of expertise, circular arguments and insulting those who disagree with you. No actual science to back you up.



Quote:
Sorry, you calling it a "guess" doesn't make it so. It's like the flu vaccine argument I hear every year, claiming the formula is a "guess" when it's based on careful monitoring of the genetic drift of the influenza virus by worldwide sampling.



You either don't understand the diagnostic criteria and how the evidence Trump has NPD is overwhelming, or, you're still digging your heels in when you should have conceded about 30 pages ago.

What a horrible analogy. The flu vaccine isn’t a wild guess, but it is a valid statistical analysis that isn’t always right. The goal of vaccination against the flu is to try and reduce the number of people who get ill. This year’s interim estimate of flu vac effectiveness is about 47%. Those numbers are backed by actual scientific methodology. We can know how effective it is.

We know nothing about the effectiveness of identifying dangerous people by an analysis of public domain information. There is no data to go by whatsoever. So yeah, it’s a guess.


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Old 18th March 2019, 08:16 AM   #1520
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The evidence just piles up:
Quote:
Other U.S. presidents have decried horror abroad as an affront to values shared among liberal democratic allies, but Trump has made no major address to mourn those gunned down last week as they worshiped at mosques in New Zealand. He has not condemned the professed white-supremacist motives of the accused killer.

Instead, Trump has spent the past few days, including the hours before and after the church service, rallying his most loyal supporters around his nationalist agenda against illegal immigration, attacking a familiar list of perceived enemies and adding new ones, all while casting himself as a victim of unfair attacks.

It was a weekend of nonstop grievances from the leader of the free world.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...?noredirect=on
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