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Tags 2020 elections , democratic party , presidential candidates

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Old 14th March 2019, 11:14 AM   #1121
Belz...
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Religious overtones.
I hate you.
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Old 14th March 2019, 11:15 AM   #1122
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OK, screw it. "Amen."
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Old 14th March 2019, 11:16 AM   #1123
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How about a simple "You can say that again!"
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Old 14th March 2019, 11:20 AM   #1124
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
How about a simple "You can say that again!"
Religious overtones.
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Old 14th March 2019, 12:22 PM   #1125
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
How about a simple "You can say that again!"
Cliche'd. Also, enables That Guy.

acbytesla has the right idea. Don't be afraid of religious overtones. For one thing, not all religions are theistic, so it won't endanger your atheist credentials.

For another thing, sometimes you want religious overtones. Sometimes you want to convey that combination of formality and conviction. "So say we all" came about because the writers of BSG wanted to get that sense of religious commitment, without using Earthling religious jargon in their !Earth setting.

If "amen" is what works here, then use "amen". Perfectly cromulent expression that well captures the spirit of the moment.
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Old 14th March 2019, 12:51 PM   #1126
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I'm not a theist, but I've been known to invoke a deity, at volume, in bed. Sometimes so have other people.
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Old 14th March 2019, 01:03 PM   #1127
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm not a theist, but I've been known to invoke a deity, at volume, in bed. Sometimes so have other people.
Yeah, but as the Dread Pirate Roberts once pointed out, "my god, what is that thing?!" isn't something you ever really want to hear directed at you.
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Old 14th March 2019, 01:10 PM   #1128
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Yeah, but as the Dread Pirate Roberts once pointed out, "my god, what is that thing?!" isn't something you ever really want to hear directed at you.
We are very different people.
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Old 14th March 2019, 01:15 PM   #1129
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Cliche'd. Also, enables That Guy.

acbytesla has the right idea. Don't be afraid of religious overtones. For one thing, not all religions are theistic, so it won't endanger your atheist credentials.

For another thing, sometimes you want religious overtones. Sometimes you want to convey that combination of formality and conviction. "So say we all" came about because the writers of BSG wanted to get that sense of religious commitment, without using Earthling religious jargon in their !Earth setting.

If "amen" is what works here, then use "amen". Perfectly cromulent expression that well captures the spirit of the moment.
WOW! Twice in the same day you said precisely my sentiments Prestige. Is that the 7th Sign?
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Old 14th March 2019, 05:30 PM   #1130
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Andrew Yang's campaign is running into some white nationalist issues from going to "intellectual dark web" for support.

Quote:
But while entrepreneur Andrew Yang has enjoyed a run of surprised, favorable press since he began raising money and generating interest from gamers, internet trolls, and extremely online individuals, his campaign is now facing an early backlash in the form of leaks, doxing, and an escalating rhetorical battle over who, exactly, owns the remaining male-dominated corners of social media.



But the meme swamps the Yang Gang calls home harbor all sorts of life — some of it far less affable. And the Yang campaign is learning that lesson the hard way. Over the past few days, its deputy chief of staff has become the target of a textbook 4chan harassment campaign. She's been doxed, harassed, and cast as the lead character in an outlandish conspiracy theory about a “Jewish plot” to manipulate 4chan users into sharing pro-Yang content.



Yang’s campaign, for example, has also attracted admirers from the far-right. White supremacist website the Daily Stormer has written about him. White nationalist leader Richard Spencer has enthusiastically tweeted about him. YouTuber James Allsup, another white nationalist, said Yang is the future. 4chan users declared him a savior of the white race for defending American workers.

Yang’s embrace of 4chan started going south earlier this month, after Yang's deputy Chief of Staff Carly Reilly tweeted, “UBI (universal basic income) is feminist.” The remark irked some on 4chan’s Politically Incorrect (/pol/) board, home to some of the community’s more hardcore white nationalists. They lashed out, infiltrated a pro-Yang Discord server, and started leaking screenshots, hoping to destabilize the Yang Gang.

When a pro-Yang Discord member posted a link to Reilly’s Calendly calendar and asked supporters to email her, some 4chan trolls snagged it and doxed her, posting her personal information and circulated a rumor that her former employer, RadicalMedia, was secretly being paid by the campaign to infiltrate 4chan to spread pro-Yang content.
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Old 14th March 2019, 05:40 PM   #1131
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
We really are in the Twilight Zone if Andrew Yang is now considered the white nationalist choice for president.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 14th March 2019, 05:45 PM   #1132
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
We really are in the Twilight Zone if Andrew Yang is now considered the white nationalist choice for president.
White nationalists have a clear ranking of non-white races and Asians tend to top it so they get axed last and it's a plus if they help you get there. They also love Tulsi Gabbard due to her bomb the middle east until its glass foreign policy,
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Old 14th March 2019, 06:11 PM   #1133
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
White nationalists have a clear ranking of non-white races and Asians tend to top it so they get axed last and it's a plus if they help you get there. They also love Tulsi Gabbard due to her bomb the middle east until its glass foreign policy,
Her what...?

Does she really have a foreign policy calling for bombing the Middle East until it's glass?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 14th March 2019, 06:16 PM   #1134
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Her what...?

Does she really have a foreign policy calling for bombing the Middle East until it's glass?
It's a little hyperbole but she's the most pro-drone bombing of any declared candidate in the ME including Trump.
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Old 14th March 2019, 06:18 PM   #1135
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You can think lightning will strike twice in the same place, but i find it unlikely.

2016 isn't 2020. People won't take 2020 for granted. Apathy and overconfidence will not be a factor. If you think people in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin will fall for Trump's BS again where his victories were by the slimmest of threads, be my guest. I think you're dreaming. My bet is that Trump will lose in 2020 and not by 3 million votes, but by 10 million.
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You mean inured by it. I think to a certain degree that is a coping mechanism. But given a choice, I think people will be anxious to return to something less bizarre.

One of the things I heard from people about Trump in 16 was that he would be different after he was in office. But if Trump is different, it's that he is far crazier and far more corrupt than we imagined he could be.

I seriously doubt that apathy and complacency will be an issue. But I've been wrong before.
Don't you think it is ironic that you confidently predict 2020 is even more nailed on as a loss for Trump than 2016, but that Trump only won 2016 because people were over-confident?

Actually, my own view is that Trump was such an unknown in 2016 that there was genuine fear he could completely smash the political system, launch nukes, devastate the economy, close America off from the rest of the world... you name it.

What we have seen hasn't sunk to those depths and it all depends on whether those who took a chance on him are more or less satisfied with what they got and whether he is worth taking a chance on again.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 14th March 2019, 06:27 PM   #1136
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
It's a little hyperbole but she's the most pro-drone bombing of any declared candidate in the ME including Trump.
Is this actually true? And is it the reason she is popular with some far-right groups?

My understanding is that the far-right are against any kind of foreign intervention, preferring "America First" isolationism, and it is her non-interventionist arguments that have gained some sympathy from those circles. Her apparent support of Assad, for example, is seen as an argument against intervention in Syria.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 14th March 2019, 06:31 PM   #1137
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Is this actually true? And is it the reason she is popular with some far-right groups?

My understanding is that the far-right are against any kind of foreign intervention, preferring "America First" isolationism, and it is her non-interventionist arguments that have gained some sympathy from those circles. Her apparent support of Assad, for example, is seen as an argument against intervention in Syria.
It's her alternative to interventions.

Quote:
And it still produces its fair share of bloodshed. Like campaign-era Trump, Gabbard may be against miring the United States in blunderous, short-sighted conflicts that backfire, but she’s more than willing to use America’s military might to go after suspected terrorists around the world (and inevitably kill and maim civilians in the process). In the same Truthout interview, responding to a question about drones, Gabbard said that “there is a place for the use of this technology, as well as smaller, quick-strike special force teams versus tens, if not hundreds of thousands of soldiers occupying space within a country.”

It’s a point she’s repeated again and again. Responding to questions from Honolulu Civil Beat in 2012, Gabbard said that “the best way to defeat the terrorists is through strategically placed, small quick-strike special forces and drones — the strategy that took out Osama Bin Laden.” She told Fox in 2014 that she would direct “the great military that we have” to conduct “unconventional strategic precise operations to take out these terrorists wherever they are.” The same year, she told Civil Beat that military strategy must “put the safety of Americans above all else” and “utilize our highly skilled special operations forces, work with and support trusted foreign partners to seek and destroy this threat.”

“In short, when it comes to the war against terrorists, I’m a hawk,” she told the Hawaii Tribune-Herald last year. “When it comes to counterproductive wars of regime change, I’m a dove.”
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Old 14th March 2019, 06:47 PM   #1138
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Don't you think it is ironic that you confidently predict 2020 is even more nailed on as a loss for Trump than 2016, but that Trump only won 2016 because people were over-confident?

Actually, my own view is that Trump was such an unknown in 2016 that there was genuine fear he could completely smash the political system, launch nukes, devastate the economy, close America off from the rest of the world... you name it.

What we have seen hasn't sunk to those depths and it all depends on whether those who took a chance on him are more or less satisfied with what they got and whether he is worth taking a chance on again.
I disagree. But that is what makes a horse race. A difference of opinion.

Go back and look at Trump's margins in those rust belt states. Note how razor thin they were. For Trump to win again in those states, he cannot lose a single point. Now hard core Trump supporters didn't and are unlikely to abandon Trump but if you think Trump has kept all those votes he got in 2016 you are IMV overly optimistic.

Look at the recent 2018 mid terms and the Blue Tsunami that resulted in 40 house seats being overturned. Were Democrats complacent? No, turnout was huge. And more importantly pretty much all those races were about Trump. Trump's ego wouldn't stand for it being anything but being about him.

That 40 seats flipped is because Trump inspires passion and it isn't the good kind of passion. Trump is the most hated President in my lifetime.
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Old 14th March 2019, 07:34 PM   #1139
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Honestly, I don't think an article from Jacobin magazine is the best source for showing how Gabbard is the most belligerent user of drones, still less that she has a desire to turn the Middle East to glass, still less that such a policy is what attracts her to the far-right.

I think a more likely explanation is that she is broadly anti-war, has naively fallen into trusting arguments that throw up dust on Assad's use of chemical weapons, may even have fallen prey to pro-Russian propaganda, but when grilled on her foreign policy has had to promote the use of drones as an alternative to direct troops-on-the-ground interventions, and has made herself the enemy of mainstream Democrats (who are keen to refer to her as Assad's nomination etc...) as well as the far left who want to pour scorn on any idea that she should be the pacifists' choice, etc...
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 14th March 2019, 07:42 PM   #1140
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I've heard her talk anti-war multiple times. I've seen people criticize her for being anti-war multiple times, including accusing her of being an Asad supporter instead of just against taking sides & thus making Syria worse. I've seen her respond to those criticisms by having to explain to those critics the idea that war is bad.

Not once have I heard her say anything positive about drone attacks. Not once have I even seen her critics accuse her of being pro-drone-attacks. I not only don't believe this fits her real positions, but also don't believe that there are even really people out there claiming it does.
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Old 14th March 2019, 07:46 PM   #1141
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I disagree. But that is what makes a horse race. A difference of opinion.

Go back and look at Trump's margins in those rust belt states. Note how razor thin they were. For Trump to win again in those states, he cannot lose a single point. Now hard core Trump supporters didn't and are unlikely to abandon Trump but if you think Trump has kept all those votes he got in 2016 you are IMV overly optimistic.

Look at the recent 2018 mid terms and the Blue Tsunami that resulted in 40 house seats being overturned. Were Democrats complacent? No, turnout was huge. And more importantly pretty much all those races were about Trump. Trump's ego wouldn't stand for it being anything but being about him.

That 40 seats flipped is because Trump inspires passion and it isn't the good kind of passion. Trump is the most hated President in my lifetime.
IMV there is nothing optimistic about a Trump victory. It is a very pessimistic view. Don't confuse predictions of what I think will happen, with what I want to happen. That's something that I find difficult to understand about American politics. It is almost impossible to find anyone discerning the difference, except perhaps FiveThirtyEight which is why I enjoy listening to them (and who were derided as Trump supporters for having a model that didn't predict a 99.9% chance of Hillary Clinton winning!).

Anyway, I agree that the majorities in the rust-belt states are the key to victory, but it is important to make sure that you don't mess up something so simple as convincing a small number of voters by bringing out a compromised candidate.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 14th March 2019, 07:58 PM   #1142
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You can use "so say we all".
WWG1WGA?




It would be funny if the Dems decided to use that as their slogan! "You can't use that! That's a copyright of Qanon"!


"What copyright"?
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Old 14th March 2019, 08:17 PM   #1143
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I like Tulsi Gabbard.

I'm not a fan of her fans though. Most of em are the "ZOMG America is teh biggest terrorist state evar!" and "RT > corporate media" and less commonly "9/11 was an inside job!"

If Bernie Sanders somehow doesn't get the lead, I may have her for 2020.

Last edited by Venom; 14th March 2019 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 14th March 2019, 08:22 PM   #1144
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I like Tulsi Gabbard.

I'm not a fan of her fans though. Most of em are the "ZOMG America is teh biggest terrorist state evar!" and "RT > corporate media" and less commonly "9/11 was an inside job!"

If Bernie Sanders somehow doesn't get the lead, I may have her for 2020.
Let's face it, when you go on Joe Rogan (as Gabbard and Yang have done), you're bound to pick up a number of crazies. Rogan's always been a bit woo-friendly (less so now than he used to be), and a lot of his guests are from all over the political spectrum and all over the sanity spectrum - he casts a big net, and some of what he drags in isn't pretty to look at.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 14th March 2019, 08:26 PM   #1145
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I like Tulsi Gabbard.

I'm not a fan of her fans though. Most of em are the "ZOMG America is teh biggest terrorist state evar!" and "RT > corporate media" and less commonly "9/11 was an inside job!"

If Bernie Sanders somehow doesn't get the lead, I may have her for 2020.
That's because her fans are actually Russkies.
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Old 14th March 2019, 08:29 PM   #1146
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
IMV there is nothing optimistic about a Trump victory. It is a very pessimistic view. Don't confuse predictions of what I think will happen, with what I want to happen. That's something that I find difficult to understand about American politics. It is almost impossible to find anyone discerning the difference, except perhaps FiveThirtyEight which is why I enjoy listening to them (and who were derided as Trump supporters for having a model that didn't predict a 99.9% chance of Hillary Clinton winning!).

Anyway, I agree that the majorities in the rust-belt states are the key to victory, but it is important to make sure that you don't mess up something so simple as convincing a small number of voters by bringing out a compromised candidate.
There is no such thing as a perfect candidate. Regardless of who the Democrats nominate the GOP will launch a battery of attacks tailored to paint that candidate as unsuitable. They'll be "God forbid, socialist" or too establishment, etc etc etc.

I look back at the so called "dirt" the GOP had on Hillary and chuckle. It was God Damn non-existent . Hillary "deleted" emails turned into something which should have been ho-hum and mundane into something super-nefarious. The GOP's entire mud-slinging campaign was not about actual corruption ...but the possibility of corruption. How amazing is that? Hillary was as clean as my mother's kitchen floor. But she was clueless in battling their attacks. I absolutely believe Hillary would have made a great President. But I also ABSOLUTELY believe she was a terrible candidate. And I use to think Dukakis was bad.

I want the best candidate who will make the best President in 2020. Unfortunately, they are not always the same person.

I feel optimistic in winning in 2020 because it is Donald Trump. If it was another incumbent Republican President, I would be at best hopeful of beating them. Now this doesn't mean it should be taken for granted which I believe was by many in 2016. But those people won't make that mistake again.

I too, hope the Democratic party chooses wisely.
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Old 15th March 2019, 05:47 AM   #1147
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Cliche'd. Also, enables That Guy.

acbytesla has the right idea. Don't be afraid of religious overtones. For one thing, not all religions are theistic, so it won't endanger your atheist credentials.

For another thing, sometimes you want religious overtones. Sometimes you want to convey that combination of formality and conviction. "So say we all" came about because the writers of BSG wanted to get that sense of religious commitment, without using Earthling religious jargon in their !Earth setting.

If "amen" is what works here, then use "amen". Perfectly cromulent expression that well captures the spirit of the moment.
I actually agree, was just running with the gag. Phrases like "Oh my God" and "Amen" have become so common they're mostly secularized now.

Heck, how many people (besides us pedants here) think of religious overtones when someone says "Damn!"?
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Old 15th March 2019, 05:57 AM   #1148
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
WWG1WGA?




It would be funny if the Dems decided to use that as their slogan! "You can't use that! That's a copyright of Qanon"!


"What copyright"?
"Wwg1wga"?
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:08 AM   #1149
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Heck, how many people (besides us pedants here) think of religious overtones when someone says "Damn!"?
About as many who realize what the days of the week are named for.
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:13 AM   #1150
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I've heard her talk anti-war multiple times. I've seen people criticize her for being anti-war multiple times, including accusing her of being an Asad supporter instead of just against taking sides & thus making Syria worse. I've seen her respond to those criticisms by having to explain to those critics the idea that war is bad.

Not once have I heard her say anything positive about drone attacks. Not once have I even seen her critics accuse her of being pro-drone-attacks. I not only don't believe this fits her real positions, but also don't believe that there are even really people out there claiming it does.
I'm not familiar with the source that Stacko linked. Do you doubt this quote...?
Originally Posted by Gabbard
the best way to defeat the terrorists is through strategically placed, small quick-strike special forces and drones — the strategy that took out Osama Bin Laden.
Here is another time she supported drone attacks, although I'm not familiar with this source either.
Originally Posted by Gabbard
I think it’s also important to look at how the use of drones in certain scenarios has saved lives and how, when strategically placed and properly used, [drones] are an asset to national security. I think there is a place for the use of this technology
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:39 AM   #1151
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
About as many who realize what the days of the week are named for.
Well everyone knows they were named for the original seven members of the Beetles!

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Old 15th March 2019, 08:43 AM   #1152
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Well everyone knows they were named for the original seven members of the Beetles!

Thank God It's Yokoday!
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:06 AM   #1153
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Here she's talking about measured use of drone strikes as one component of a responsible foreign policy.

Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I'm not familiar with the source that Stacko linked. Do you doubt this quote...?Here is another time she supported drone attacks, although I'm not familiar with this source either.
This is a reasonable, though still hotly debatable postion. But somehow, Stacko converts Gabbard's nuanced position into this:

Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
White nationalists have a clear ranking of non-white races and Asians tend to top it so they get axed last and it's a plus if they help you get there. They also love Tulsi Gabbard due to her bomb the middle east until its glass foreign policy,
And so now, instead of actually debating the merits of Gabbard's actual policy, y'all have to fight to drag the conversation back to a reasonable starting point. This kind of friction is just a drag on real discussion.

Stacko, what was your plan?
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Old 15th March 2019, 10:49 AM   #1154
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Not thrilled with Cory Booker's call for some kind of Net censorship of racist opinions in wake of NZ Shootings because

A.I am a absolutists when it comes to free speech on the Who Will Watch The Watchers principal
B. Probably technically impossible anyway
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:12 AM   #1155
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Not thrilled with Cory Booker's call for some kind of Net censorship of racist opinions in wake of NZ Shootings because

A.I am a absolutists when it comes to free speech on the Who Will Watch The Watchers principal
B. Probably technically impossible anyway
There's an even simpler answer, that I have advocated for since the 1990s - identification.

If your account at any organisation on the internet isn't linked to your real name and address, you don't get to go on.

As I recall, we used to have things called "telephone directories" that listed almost every person alive and their phone number and street address, but I don't seem to remember it causing too much trouble.

If people know their actual name will attach to their stupid, bigoted or violent comments, they'd be a lot less likely to make them.
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Old 15th March 2019, 04:18 PM   #1156
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
And it might be your guilty conscience telling you to defend yourself against a remark clearly not aimed at you.

Your call.
Well done, TA. Prior to your post I thought that I could respond to any post if I felt moved to do so. Now I know better. Edumacation - it can't be beat.
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Old 15th March 2019, 04:20 PM   #1157
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Biden's guilt isn't an issue - the actual assaults are there to view.
Calling those incidents an "assualt" cheapens the word and does real damage to women who use the word to describe real assaults.
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Old 15th March 2019, 04:24 PM   #1158
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't agree with you on many things Prestige, but I agree with you on this.
Thirded.
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Old 15th March 2019, 04:27 PM   #1159
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
How about a simple "You can say that again!"
You can say that again!
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Old 15th March 2019, 04:36 PM   #1160
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The Washington Post handicaps the race here. You have to slide down a bit to get to the actual table.
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