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Tags Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Mueller investigation , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 21st February 2019, 05:21 AM   #361
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Does it actually count as politics if, for example, Mueller already had firm evidence that Trump and co were willing foreign assets and continued to be willing assets, but hadn't finished investigating a bunch of other crimes that were turned up in the course of the investigation? In such a case, I definitely wouldn't consider it "political" to ship off a bunch of the other crime investigations to those who would more normally hold jurisdiction for investigating those crimes and present the firm evidence at hand. It's not so much that that the motivations to do so are "political" so much as upholding "national security."
It's always seemed that Mueller is doing a very thorough job - as is to be expected when the target of an investigation is the most powerful man in the world. I find it hard to imagine that Mueller would then attempt to bring such a case without even interviewing all the key witnesses.
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Old 21st February 2019, 05:38 AM   #362
Aridas
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It's always seemed that Mueller is doing a very thorough job - as is to be expected when the target of an investigation is the most powerful man in the world. I find it hard to imagine that Mueller would then attempt to bring such a case without even interviewing all the key witnesses.
To be clear, I'm not arguing that it's happening. Rather, that it's plausible. With that said... to give some context to this objection, I think I'll poke at NBC News.

Quote:
The third possibility — and one that I suggest is growing more likely by the day — is that evidentiary developments in the investigation may have moved the president from being a “subject” of the investigation to being a “target.” If this is the case, then Department of Justice policies would strongly argue against using a grand jury subpoena to compel the president to testify.
Also...

Quote:
One other pattern has emerged that could provide additional insight. Several of the individuals indicted were not subpoenaed prior to being charged. For example, Paul Manafort (obviously a target) was not subpoenaed to the grand jury; he was indicted. Rick Gates was not subpoenaed to the grand jury; he was indicted. Alex van der Zwaan was not subpoenaed to the grand jury; he was indicted. Of course, this pattern doesn’t prove that Stone, Kushner, Don Jr. or the president are targets of Mueller’s investigation or that they will be indicted.
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Old 21st February 2019, 05:38 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
But is that because Mueller is done, or because Barr's shut it down?
If it shuts down, it's because Barr shut it down. Mueller has indictments on the way, lots of redacted information in current filings relating to as-yet unknown indictments, and just a few weeks ago reserved another six months of grand jury time. He won't be done for a while.

Last edited by Beelzebuddy; 21st February 2019 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 21st February 2019, 05:44 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
If it shuts down, it's because Barr shut it down. Mueller has indictments on the way, lots of redacted information in current filings relating to as-yet unknown indictments, and just a few weeks ago reserved another six months of grand jury time. He won't be done for a while.
The House would have the authority to acquire all of the documentation and continue these investigations, would they not?
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Old 21st February 2019, 05:54 AM   #365
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
To be clear, I'm not arguing that it's happening. Rather, that it's plausible.
I didn't say it was impossible, just that given what we know it was unlikely.
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Old 21st February 2019, 07:58 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Mueller likes his Friday's ... and this is the last one in February.

Felony Friday predictions, anyone?


I'm hoping for Erik Prince and the Qatari Investment Authority to be indicted.
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Old 21st February 2019, 08:27 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
The House would have the authority to acquire all of the documentation and continue these investigations, would they not?
Yeah, but I wouldn't put much faith in them. I'd expect everyone they call to immediately start claiming executive privilege for everything.


Thinking more about it, it's possible that I've got it backwards. Could be Mueller has wanted to make a move for a while, but knew his boss would classify the report and sit on it.

Consider his bosses have been Sessions, who is literally a coconspirator, Rosenstein, who was already caught up in the obstruction case, and what's his name, the fraud guy. Mueller's charged with producing a singular report. One. So he couldn't issue anything preliminary, or they'd have said "there you go that's the report, we'll take it into advisement, thanks." But maybe he trusts Barr enough to do the right thing, and doesn't need to stall anymore.
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Old 21st February 2019, 08:45 AM   #368
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Rosenstein has to step down in order to become a witness.
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Old 21st February 2019, 11:10 AM   #369
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Is Stone going to join his buddy Manafort behind bars? In court today he could see his bail revoked because he ignored gag order.
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Old 21st February 2019, 11:24 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Rosenstein has to step down in order to become a witness.
And we saw when that happened, Trump immediately replaced him with a toady. This may be the first real opportunity Mueller's had.
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Old 21st February 2019, 11:30 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Is Stone going to join his buddy Manafort behind bars? In court today he could see his bail revoked because he ignored gag order.
I think it's a fair possibility, given that even after issuing the apology and being called back into court he was still badmouthing the judge on social media.
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Old 21st February 2019, 11:33 AM   #372
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Am I the only one who thinks this guy looks like Bert from Sesame Street?
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Old 21st February 2019, 11:51 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Is Stone going to join his buddy Manafort behind bars? In court today he could see his bail revoked because he ignored gag order.
If Stone gets put into jail because of his big, fat, lying mouth, then such a thing could not possibly happen to a nicer guy.
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Old 21st February 2019, 11:54 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
If Stone gets put into jail because of his big, fat, lying mouth, then such a thing could not possibly happen to a nicer guy.
So Stone is a nice guy? Hmmm. No wonder Trump likes him.
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Old 21st February 2019, 12:03 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
So Stone is a nice guy? Hmmm. No wonder Trump likes him.
Well, ...

In a way, Stone is very nice guy. After all, Stone and his wife were swingers some years ago, so so who knows what they actually did in order to make Trump happy.
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On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool."
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Old 21st February 2019, 12:03 PM   #376
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Wonder if Stone is trying for an insanity plea...

"Wasn't me posting those comments, your honour. It was my friend, that giant white rabbit named Harvey, sitting just over there." [points at court clerk]
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Old 21st February 2019, 12:05 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Wonder if Stone is trying for an insanity plea...

"Wasn't me posting those comments, your honour. It was my friend, that giant white rabbit named Harvey, sitting just over there." [points at court clerk]
...who then scurries away into a nearby bush.
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Old 21st February 2019, 01:15 PM   #378
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Stone has had another go at the judge in a fund raising email to his 'fans'

He accused the judge of being biased because she’s an “Obama-appointed Federal Judge” and accusing her of wanting to place a gag order on him so he “cannot raise the money necessary to mount a vigorous legal defense.”
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Old 21st February 2019, 01:20 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Stone has had another go at the judge in a fund raising email to his 'fans'

He accused the judge of being biased because she’s an “Obama-appointed Federal Judge” and accusing her of wanting to place a gag order on him so he “cannot raise the money necessary to mount a vigorous legal defense.”
So he might have to *gasp* pay his own legal fees? The horror!
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Old 21st February 2019, 01:26 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Wonder if Stone is trying for an insanity plea...

"Wasn't me posting those comments, your honour. It was my friend, that giant white rabbit named Harvey, sitting just over there." [points at court clerk]
Can you prove that it wasn’t?
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Old 21st February 2019, 02:03 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Is Stone going to join his buddy Manafort behind bars? In court today he could see his bail revoked because he ignored gag order.
Not just ignoring the gag order, but insulting the judge in the process.
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Old 21st February 2019, 02:05 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Wonder if Stone is trying for an insanity plea...

"Wasn't me posting those comments, your honour. It was my friend, that giant white rabbit named Harvey, sitting just over there." [points at court clerk]
That only works if your name is Jimmy Stewart...
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Old 21st February 2019, 02:11 PM   #383
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The IRS mope who leaked Michael Cohens' SARS to Michael Aventatti was just charged with a felony.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/21/polit...n-tax-returns/
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Old 21st February 2019, 02:21 PM   #384
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No Jail for Stone, but now the gag order on his case is total.
Taking bets as to how long until he screws up again.
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Old 21st February 2019, 02:24 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Not just ignoring the gag order, but insulting the judge in the process.
One could argue he was threatening the judge as well not to mention undermining the judicial process.

But he's lucky, the judge didn't revoke his bond. But she did revise the gag order. Now, he is under a full gag order.

Ninja'd by dudalb
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Last edited by acbytesla; 21st February 2019 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 21st February 2019, 02:50 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
But he's lucky, the judge didn't revoke his bond. But she did revise the gag order. Now, he is under a full gag order.
I think its for the best.

I think Stone belongs in jail, but if his bale was revoked he could claim martyrdom. At least being out and free, its harder for him to complain about unfair treatment. (I'm sure he probably will, just that its a little less believable.)
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Old 21st February 2019, 03:05 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
That only works if your name is Jimmy Stewart...
and if there is a rabbit.
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Old 21st February 2019, 03:26 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I think its for the best.

I think Stone belongs in jail, but if his bale was revoked he could claim martyrdom. At least being out and free, its harder for him to complain about unfair treatment. (I'm sure he probably will, just that its a little less believable.)
It's kind of hard to complain from jail. Also, this guy is going to claim martyrdom regardless. But I don't think that other than the choir anyone is going to believe him.

It will be interesting though to see how long It will be before he breaks the gag order.
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Old 21st February 2019, 03:36 PM   #389
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Didn't Stone complain that there were threats he would be raped in prison?
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Old 21st February 2019, 03:44 PM   #390
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https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1098675635201937408

Quote:
Not days. Not “as early as next week,” per yesterday’s reports.

Now it’s “weeks”?

“The new attorney general, William P. Barr, is preparing for the special counsel to deliver a report in coming weeks...”

(h/t ⁦@lrozen⁩)
Article embedded in tweet.
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Old 21st February 2019, 03:45 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Didn't Stone complain that there were threats he would be raped in prison?
One look at Nixon would probably deter them.
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Old 21st February 2019, 03:48 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
In Ari Melber's "The Beat" today, it was mentioned that, this afternoon, trolleys of file boxes were being wheeled out of the offices of the Special Counsel.

Is Mueller taking steps like the Obama Administration did in the last few days of his Presidency, and Andrew McCabe did just after Comey's firing, to prevernt all the evidence being disappeared by Trump and his supporters on the Hill.
Watergate prosecuting attorney Jill Wine-Banks said near the end of the Watergate investigation they started taking files home with them to protect them from Nixon and his cronies.
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Old 21st February 2019, 03:50 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
One look at Nixon would probably deter them.
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Old 21st February 2019, 03:51 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I think its for the best.

I think Stone belongs in jail, but if his bale was revoked he could claim martyrdom. At least being out and free, its harder for him to complain about unfair treatment. (I'm sure he probably will, just that its a little less believable.)
I think the martyrdom factor is why the Judge did not throw his butt in the clink.
But if he violates this gag order, which I would be willing to bet he will,he will end up in the slammer.
BTW he can't complain about the new gag order unless he wants to go to jail since that would be a violation of the order
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Old 21st February 2019, 03:53 PM   #395
Fast Eddie B
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Didn't Stone complain that there were threats he would be raped in prison?
I would never wish that on anyone. Seriously.

But I did want to see the judge revoke his bail. Schadenfreude and all that!
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Old 21st February 2019, 04:00 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
In Ari Melber's "The Beat" today, it was mentioned that, this afternoon, trolleys of file boxes were being wheeled out of the offices of the Special Counsel.

Is Mueller taking steps like the Obama Administration did in the last few days of his Presidency, and Andrew McCabe did just after Comey's firing, to prevernt all the evidence being disappeared by Trump and his supporters on the Hill.
This is interesting: The Palmer report re 'is Mueller really ready to report':
Quote:
We know that in the past, the White House has leaked information to the press that they wanted to be true, as if it were true. For months, they said Mueller would be done by November of 2018, then after November passed, they declared he would be all done by January of 2019. This tactic employed by the White House, of leaking what they want to happen, is oddly similar to a tactic Donald Trump used in a meeting described by Andrew McCabe.

McCabe described how Trump said that he had heard that McCabe was part of the “resistance” against Jim Comey. Trump laid out a whole story for McCabe, describing how he (Trump) had heard McCabe was one of the people in DOJ that had been loyal to Trump. None of what Trump was saying was true, but that was not the point. By the time Trump was finished speaking, all McCabe had to do was say yes, in agreement with Trump’s narrative, and McCabe and Trump would have had an understanding.
On the 'maybe he's done' side:
Quote:
However, it is just as likely that Mueller will actually be finished with and deliver something to Barr next week. The evidence we know about to support this includes the files and boxes being moved from the special counsel’s office, and the number of staff that have finished their details with Mueller, and returned to their regular jobs at DOJ.
That's a promising sign as is removing files from Trump's access.
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Old 21st February 2019, 04:03 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by BadBoy View Post
...
I really think if they are going to get Trump himself, it will be by other means (Tax returns or other unlawful stuff) - but after he is no longer the pres.
I do hope they are holding stuff back until Trump can no longer pardon his kids and himself.
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Old 21st February 2019, 04:05 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
This seems incredibly unlikely. He literally just subpoenaed Brittany Kaiser within the last 7 days. He only received copies of major players' testimony to Congress (including various bits of perjury) last week. Manafort hasn't been sentenced and, facing the real possibility of dying in prison, may decide to cooperate after all. Corsi has yet to be indicted. None of Trump's children have been interviewed. And so on.

In other words, if the investigation is really coming to an end then what that means is that it's being shut down, not that Mueller is in any way finished.

But let's take this with the same pinch of salt that we've had to take every other report of it shutting down.
Do you mean passed on to other prosecutors or shut down while incomplete?
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Old 21st February 2019, 04:08 PM   #399
Fast Eddie B
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I do hope they are holding stuff back until Trump can no longer pardon his kids and himself.
As far a federal crimes, can’t he pardon them for future prosecutions?

I thought that’s what Ford did with Nixon.

The saving grace is there are plenty of state charges they can still be prosecuted for.
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Old 21st February 2019, 04:28 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
One could argue he was threatening the judge as well not to mention undermining the judicial process.

But he's lucky, the judge didn't revoke his bond. But she did revise the gag order. Now, he is under a full gag order.

Ninja'd by dudalb
The only gag that will work is a physical one.
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