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Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , Michael Cohen , Trump controversies

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Old 27th February 2019, 02:07 PM   #201
Skeptic Ginger
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Mara Liasson NPR just now: The GOP Congressmen are playing to Trump not necessarily to their base. "Look at me, see how loyal I am."

Trump worship is so bizarre. I think Pence may very well be that enamored with Trump rather than faking it.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:07 PM   #202
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Is there some prize we could nominate Cohen for?
Maybe this?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cong...nal_Gold_Medal
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:07 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Wait, wait, wait. Let me get this straight because i absolutely 100% do NOT want to misinterpret or misrepresent your position.

Is Cohen a liar:

Yes___

No____

I strive for clarity. Looking forward to your honest answer.
If someone can substantiate their claims now, who cares if they are at other times liars?
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:08 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It is fun to see how people torch themselves into pretzels to

1. ignore the actual nonsense I was replying to and
2. evade the question.

Folks, Cohen pled guilty to lying to Congress and is testifying before Congress today. It is OK, you can actually go ahead and say with firm conviction:

MICHAEL COHEN IS A LIAR.

It is fine, this is not a shades of grey thing or nuance.

Go ahead you can say it:

MICHAEL COHEN IS A LIAR.
Yeah, for some odd reason, the biggest liar in US political history surrounded himself with liars. Fortunately for them, that's just a process crime.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:08 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
relevant? uh oh, now someone is going to come in here and declare that you are guilty of confoirmation bias, and others are going to pollute the thread with navel gazing
Have you ever lied?

If so, you are a liar.

And, yes, you have told lies, because you are human like the rest of us.

Did Cohen tell lies today?
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:10 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Is there some prize we could nominate Cohen for?
Maybe this?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cong...nal_Gold_Medal
You think Congress ought to give a medal to someone who admitted lying* to Congress and is going down the river for it in a couple of months. Fascinating.

*and by lying I am taking into account the length and breathe of human existence where humans are infinite bits of grey on a sliding scale from being to nothingness.... namaste.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:14 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It is fun to see how people torch themselves into pretzels to

1. ignore the actual nonsense I was replying to and
2. evade the question.

Folks, Cohen pled guilty to lying to Congress and is testifying before Congress today. It is OK, you can actually go ahead and say with firm conviction:

MICHAEL COHEN IS A LIAR. AND TRUMP IS A LIAR.

It is fine, this is not a shades of grey thing or nuance.

Go ahead you can say it:

MICHAEL COHEN IS A LIAR. AND TRUMP IS A LIAR.
AND TRUMP IS A LIAR.

Yes Cohen has lied. Everyone knows that. We also KNOW that he has lied for the President and at his direction. But we also know that Trump is a liar. Actually a much bigger liar. In fact, Trump cannot EVER be trusted to be telling the truth. He has demonstrated almost on a daily basis that nothing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is too trivial or too important that Trump won't lie about.

So to suggest that Cohen is lying today and that we should dismiss his words because he contradicts Trump is truly pathetic.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:14 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
If so, you are a liar.
...


Did Cohen tell lies today?
CONFIRMATION BIAS!

All these posts about humans having lied at some point are quite hilarious, given that we are talking about a guy that admitted lying to Congress and is now testifying before congress

SENSATIONAL!

Cohen lied openly and repeatedly today.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:16 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
AND TRUMP IS A LIAR.

Yes Cohen has lied. Everyone knows that. We also KNOW that he has lied for the President and at his direction. But we also know that Trump is a liar. Actually a much bigger liar. In fact, Trump cannot EVER be trusted to be telling the truth. He has demonstrated almost on a daily basis that nothing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is too trivial or too important that Trump won't lie about.

So to suggest that Cohen is lying today and that we should dismiss his words because he contradicts Trump is truly pathetic.
HOW DARE YOU CRITICISE BIG BROTHER YOU DOUBLEPLUS UNGOOD CRIMETHINKER!
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:16 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Folks, Cohen pled guilty to lying to Congress and is testifying before Congress today. It is OK, you can actually go ahead and say with firm conviction:

MICHAEL COHEN IS A LIAR.
Important note: the lie he was found guilty of telling was that Trump did nothing wrong.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:17 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
relevant? uh oh, now someone is going to come in here and declare that you are guilty of confoirmation bias, and others are going to pollute the thread with navel gazing
Try to focus: What did he lie about today?

You've reposted one claim that he was angry about not getting a White House job, but there is no evidence that's true -- he remained 100% loyal to Trump until he got charged -- and it isn't relevant anyway.

Then you reposted Assange's claim that he's never spoken to Roger Stone. But we already know Stone was actually in contact with an intermediary, and we know it wouldn't be unusual for Stone to lie about talking directly to Assange. So, even if Assange is telling the truth, that wouldn't disprove what Cohen said about what he heard Stone say on the speakerphone.

Did he lie about those checks and financial records? It looks like those point to a crime, one way or another.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:17 PM   #212
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You know guys, best way to deal with a troll is not to deal at all.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:30 PM   #213
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No one has really answered the question, lots of dodges, including a magnificent one that calls me a troll for pointing out a convicted liar is a liar.

Michael Cohen: ‘I Have Lied, But I Am Not a Liar’

Lied today about not wanting to work in the White house, the comments about the emails and roger Stone, oh hell, just go back and read my excellent posts in this thread
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:31 PM   #214
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The Southern District of New York & Special Counsel’s Office, here’s what their prosecutors have said about him.

SDNY: “His instinct to blame others is strong.”

SCO: Cohen’s lies were “deliberate and premeditated.”

Sounds like a bit of conformation bias there folks. I read it in a thread for skeptics.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:32 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
One thing Cohen just said rings absolutely true.

'Mr Trump would never hit Melania, never. He's not that type of a person'

I believe this is 100% true. From my personal experience, its one of the key aspects of narcissistic behaviour that they NEVER use physical violence to control people; they are much too cunning to do that - physical violence leaves marks, and marks can be photographed as evidence.
Except when Trump was divorcing Ivana.

I agree, Cohen was convincing. But keep in mind domestic abusers very often are good at hiding it. But there's no evidence the elevator recording was for sale so it probably didn't happen. And there's enough bad about Trump without speculating about something that has no actual evidence (since Ivana).
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:33 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Wait, wait, wait. Let me get this straight because i absolutely 100% do NOT want to misinterpret or misrepresent your position.

Is Cohen a liar:

Yes___

No____

I strive for clarity. Looking forward to your honest answer.
False Dichotomy, no one lies 100% of the time, and no one tells the truth 100% of the time.

If you demand that anyone that has ever lies is a liar, then by that standard everyone on the planet bar those under 2 who can't speak, are liars.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:34 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
For the first time ever, a person convicted of lying to Congress, is sitting there lying to congress.

While that is going on, The President signs a 21 Billion Dollar trade agreement with Vietnam, and tries to end the Korean War.

Enjoy your show.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:35 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Mara Liasson NPR just now: The GOP Congressmen are playing to Trump not necessarily to their base. "Look at me, see how loyal I am."

Trump worship is so bizarre. I think Pence may very well be that enamored with Trump rather than faking it.
I am not sure I totally buy that. I will apply Occam's Razor, and say they are appealing to their base who they think are loyal Trump followers. I am skeptical of complex psychogical explanations when a much more plausible ,simple one is around.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:36 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
One thing Cohen just said rings absolutely true.

'Mr Trump would never hit Melania, never. He's not that type of a person'

I believe this is 100% true. From my personal experience, its one of the key aspects of narcissistic behaviour that they NEVER use physical violence to control people; they are much too cunning to do that - physical violence leaves marks, and marks can be photographed as evidence.
Yeah, until they stab them to death leaving 213 wounds.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:36 PM   #220
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A lot of whistling past the graveyard by the Trumpers here, I think.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:36 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
False Dichotomy, no one lies 100% of the time, and no one tells the truth 100% of the time.

If you demand that anyone that has ever lies is a liar, then by that standard everyone on the planet bar those under 2 who can't speak, are liars.
Bingo, that is another vote for ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I had no idea whatsoever the mental gymnastics one must execute to avoid answering whether answering a person convicted for lying is a liar.

I gotta tell you, people could take this thread and write a book about it.

It will be titled: "Just Admit the God Damn obvious and move on for crying out loud."
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:37 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
False Dichotomy, no one lies 100% of the time, and no one tells the truth 100% of the time.

If you demand that anyone that has ever lies is a liar, then by that standard everyone on the planet bar those under 2 who can't speak, are liars.
Even Trump isn't lying on occasion. Not that he tells the truth on purpose.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:38 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
And your proof that he is currently lying to congress is what?


Ah yes, Vietnam... the country the U.S. could have been trading with for a long time had Trump decided to stay in the TPP, but he chose not to.

So, thanks for, what, fixing something you broke in the first place I guess.

Yes, good effort. We know he's probably going to end up being conned (as he was after the last meeting). But we can at least give him a gold star for [feigned] effort.
ftfy

Or maybe that should say "imagined effort" since Trump almost certainly believes he is taking actions that have an effect.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:40 PM   #224
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Cohen to the GOP

“I did the same thing you’re doing now for ten years… the people who do what I did and follow Trump blindly will follow the same fate I did”
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:42 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Cohen to the GOP

“I did the same thing you’re doing now for ten years… the people who do what I did and follow Trump blindly will follow the same fate I did”
Uh huh, except the whole tax fraud from 2012-2016 that implicates his wife as well, and caused him to go into full sniveling rat mode to cover up their crimes.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:43 PM   #226
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Gosar: “You’re a pathological liar, you don’t know truth from falsehood.”

Cohen: “Are you referring to me, or the president?”


Cohen has already been sentenced. His statements have been corroborated by the Special Counsel. He cannot reduce his prison time by testifying before congress. If he lies, he would actually increase his prison time (a good example being Manafort’s current predicament).
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:43 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
No one has really answered the question, lots of dodges, including a magnificent one that calls me a troll for pointing out a convicted liar is a liar.

Michael Cohen: ‘I Have Lied, But I Am Not a Liar’

Lied today about not wanting to work in the White house, the comments about the emails and roger Stone, oh hell, just go back and read my excellent posts in this thread
Michael Cohen has lied many times, and admitted this.

Michael Cohen does not always lie.

In this regard Michael Cohen is no different than any other person
The main difference between Michael Cohen's lies and the lies of most other people is that Michael Cohen's lies have a serious impact on USA politics.

Any statements that Michael Cohen has made today that are backed up by documented evidence. These are demonstrably not lies.

Calling Cohen a liar serves no purpose beyond inflating your own ego in your own eyes.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:44 PM   #228
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AOC had some very specific and incriminating questions about Trump's tax evasion. She did a good job, IMO.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:45 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Bingo, that is another vote for ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I had no idea whatsoever the mental gymnastics one must execute to avoid answering whether answering a person convicted for lying is a liar.

I gotta tell you, people could take this thread and write a book about it.

It will be titled: "Just Admit the God Damn obvious and move on for crying out loud."
It's another vote for the world is not black and white.

A person can lie about one part of their life, and tell the truth in all the rest, does that make them a liar? Does it make them untrustworthy or unbelievable?

Some people can lie about things they have done, but when caught will tell the truth. Does that make them a liar? Does it make them untrustworthy or unbelievable?

Merely saying someone lied about something and thus we can simply declare that they are a liar and nothing that they say is believable is nothing more than an ad hominem fallacy attack. But you wouldn't be caught using a fallacy argument, right?
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:46 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post

Calling Cohen a liar serves no purpose beyond inflating your own ego in your own eyes.
'k

READ: Michael Cohen's plea agreement

Not kidding you folks are really entertaining TBD this afternoon.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:48 PM   #231
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For his ego, Trump had a straw purchaser bid up his portrait so it would sell for the most money. Then Trump paid the bidder back out of the Trump Foundation charity.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:51 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
rat
You understand this term is reserved for those who tell the truth about their fellow criminals, right?
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:53 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
You understand this term is reserved for those who tell the truth about their fellow criminals, right?
You understand that i have already expertly and with actual legal citations nuked that false comment from orbit, right?
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:56 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Bingo, that is another vote for ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I had no idea whatsoever the mental gymnastics one must execute to avoid answering whether answering a person convicted for lying is a liar.

I gotta tell you, people could take this thread and write a book about it.

It will be titled: "Just Admit the God Damn obvious and move on for crying out loud."
Here, I'll throw the bone:

Yes, Cohen is a liar.

Happy now?

Now let's have a fun test, and determine who has not
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:57 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
'k

READ: Michael Cohen's plea agreement

Not kidding you folks are really entertaining TBD this afternoon.
Context my friend. Quote my complete statement or quote nothing. Respond to my complete statement or keep quiet.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:58 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You understand that i have already expertly and with actual legal citations nuked that false comment from orbit, right?
No-one here understands that. No-one.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:59 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Here, I'll throw the bone:

Yes, Cohen is a liar.

Happy now?

Now let's have a fun test, and determine who has not
Non-sequitur response in 3,2.1....
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Old 27th February 2019, 03:03 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
keep quiet.
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Old 27th February 2019, 03:04 PM   #239
dudalb
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You have two battles going on
The legal battle
The battle for public opinion.
Different rules apply to both.
And I think Trump is losing the public opinion battle except for his base.
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Old 27th February 2019, 03:04 PM   #240
beren
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
On the other hand, Cohen just denied under oath having ever been in Prague, and he also said he never met with Russians on his 2016 trip elsewhere in Europe.

That little tidbit just nuked the Steele report grift from orbit.

Wow, what a terrible day for resistance grifters.
It certainly dents that specific part of the dossier, and I will be very skeptical of that specific report unless a see some sort of hard evidence.

Still, since the dossier is a collection of humint, and each part is not reliant ont he others and there is no claim that it is all true or all false, merely a summary of reports that Steele has heard, this does nothing to affect any other part of it.

But you already knew that and jsut can't admit it.
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