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Old 12th October 2017, 05:47 PM   #161
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Until I see a better source I don't believe "he says" anything at all.
Given that the rant Downey has been accused of making is very pro Trump,and Robert Downey Jr campaigned heavily against Trump in 2016,and has made his contempt for Trump clear on several occasions since the election , combined with the fact that none of the sources for this story seem to be very reputable, I would say there is a 90% chance the story is pure BS.

Which is good news for me. Having Batman turning out be a Sexual Groper is bad enough, without Iron Man becoming a conspiracy theory spouting nut case.
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Last edited by dudalb; 12th October 2017 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 12th October 2017, 07:32 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Flashes of light on the strip in Las Vegas? Get the **** out of here. I can't think of any explanation other than someone shooting a gun.
That was my first thought when this crap story hit my inbox.

The fact that it came from somebody who has been shot at and shot back shocked me, but the CT crap never stops.

My buddy did come around when I mentioned Vegas/Lights/Glass so all's well there but man, I didn't expect something like that being passed along by somebody like him.
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Old 12th October 2017, 08:37 PM   #163
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As the conspiracy theorists here seem so busy maybe they overlooked this, so I'll try asking it again.

If there was more than one shooter and the shooter was not a ghost and was shooting something that shoots bullets, would it not be likely one would find bullet casings? The shooter we know about punched out a window, as I recall. Were other windows punched out? No communication equipment was found in the room of the known shooter, so if there was more than one shooter, did shooting go on after he stopped? If not how did the other shooters know to stop, and why, if they were undiscovered, would they? What about ballistic evidence? Assuming that eventually the bullets recovered from victims and elsewhere are matched to guns, will the conspiracy theorists here accept ballistic evidence? If only guns found with the known shooter are shown to have fired the bullets, will that cut any ice here? I have no doubt the on line nutbars will spin their theories out forever no matter what, because it's easier to blame traitors than to abandon a delusion, but how about folks here?
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Old 12th October 2017, 08:49 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
As the conspiracy theorists here seem so busy maybe they overlooked this, so I'll try asking it again.

If there was more than one shooter and the shooter was not a ghost and was shooting something that shoots bullets, would it not be likely one would find bullet casings? The shooter we know about punched out a window, as I recall. Were other windows punched out? No communication equipment was found in the room of the known shooter, so if there was more than one shooter, did shooting go on after he stopped? If not how did the other shooters know to stop, and why, if they were undiscovered, would they? What about ballistic evidence? Assuming that eventually the bullets recovered from victims and elsewhere are matched to guns, will the conspiracy theorists here accept ballistic evidence? If only guns found with the known shooter are shown to have fired the bullets, will that cut any ice here? I have no doubt the on line nutbars will spin their theories out forever no matter what, because it's easier to blame traitors than to abandon a delusion, but how about folks here?
Well, IF there were a sooper secret, tier 1, black ops, ninja team, odds are they would police their brass. After that, yeah, everything falls apart unless said team includes ninja glaziers, & a Now You See Me II type magician squad to switch out the barrels.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:17 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Given that the rant Downey has been accused of making is very pro Trump,and Robert Downey Jr campaigned heavily against Trump in 2016,and has made his contempt for Trump clear on several occasions since the election , combined with the fact that none of the sources for this story seem to be very reputable, I would say there is a 90% chance the story is pure BS.

Which is good news for me. Having Batman turning out be a Sexual Groper is bad enough, without Iron Man becoming a conspiracy theory spouting nut case.
I suspect that the only way RDJ would make such a statement is if he was high out of his mind and in a standoff with police officers.
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Old 12th October 2017, 11:34 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
As the conspiracy theorists here seem so busy maybe they overlooked this, so I'll try asking it again.

If there was more than one shooter and the shooter was not a ghost and was shooting something that shoots bullets, would it not be likely one would find bullet casings? The shooter we know about punched out a window, as I recall. Were other windows punched out? No communication equipment was found in the room of the known shooter, so if there was more than one shooter, did shooting go on after he stopped? If not how did the other shooters know to stop, and why, if they were undiscovered, would they? What about ballistic evidence? Assuming that eventually the bullets recovered from victims and elsewhere are matched to guns, will the conspiracy theorists here accept ballistic evidence? If only guns found with the known shooter are shown to have fired the bullets, will that cut any ice here? I have no doubt the on line nutbars will spin their theories out forever no matter what, because it's easier to blame traitors than to abandon a delusion, but how about folks here?

Sorry, cannot be much help. I looked, sniffed, didnt swallow, did not draw The Conclusion.
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Old 13th October 2017, 12:42 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Sorry, cannot be much help. I looked, sniffed, didnt swallow, did not draw The Conclusion.
No, no, heaven forbid, you were 'Just Asking Questions' and 'Just Saying' and 'Just Pointing Out Someone Else Asking Questions' after all. Oh, and insinuating that anyone who came up with answers you didn't like or thought the questions were dumb were some sort of apologists for a vaguely defined and nebulous government plot.
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Old 13th October 2017, 01:28 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
No, no, heaven forbid, you were 'Just Asking Questions' and 'Just Saying' and 'Just Pointing Out Someone Else Asking Questions' after all. Oh, and insinuating that anyone who came up with answers you didn't like or thought the questions were dumb were some sort of apologists for a vaguely defined and nebulous government plot.
Well, you see, it's not about actually being right if you're right for the wrong reasons. It's about being wrong, if necessary, for the right reasons. And if your reasons are right enough, you can be as wrong as you like and still claim you're more right than the people who are actually right, but whose reasons are really, really wrong.

It works for politics too, I think.

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Old 13th October 2017, 07:27 AM   #169
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I was looking on Reddit and there was a post from r/The_Donald that popped up. I don't ever look at that sub because it seems like a cesspit, but the post caught my attention:

Quote:
This Is Not A Partisan Issue. There Are 58 Dead Americans & 489 Injured Americans. We Have No Answers. None. No Footage Of The Perp In The Most Heavily Videoed Place In The USA. All We Have Are Timelines That Don't Line Up, Contradicting Stories, Shot Security Guards Who Vanish. We Need Answers NOW
As might be expected, the comments are a big pile of vague conspiracy theories. Some get more specific (the Democrats did this, callously murdering all those people so they could take away our guns!) but overall it's a lot of references to "They". Since this is a group that is united by their support for Trump they don't blame him, but that doesn't mean they don't blame the rest of the government. In particular some of them think the security guard that was shot is secretly a government agent, believe the whole thing was set up by some faction in the government, think that the military needs to take control since they're the only part of the government other than Trump that can be trusted.

They seem to blame Sessions, somehow.

The photos are doctored, there aren't enough photos, that guy looks drugged in the photos. This is a conspiracy just like 9/11, Sandy Hook, Watergate, and the Kennedy assassination. This was an attack by the Muslim Brotherhood, in cooperation with traitors in our government. This was a gun deal with the FBI gone wrong.

The few people that tried to be the voice of reason were downvoted, of course.

Anyway, this group is - in theory - not a CT group. Of course we already knew that there's some overlap between hardcore Trump fans and CT stuff since the campaign ran on "fake news" and fear mongering but it's interesting to see how quickly these kinds of theories are embraced by them.
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Old 13th October 2017, 09:19 AM   #170
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Conspiracy crowd working overtime since Las Vegas shooting

Originally Posted by Las Vegas Review-Journal
The conspiracy crowd took to the internet almost as soon as the gunfire stopped.

Every mass-casualty event attracts its share of crackpots, and the Oct. 1 attack in Las Vegas would be no different.

Shaky cell phone videos of a flashing strobe light became proof of a second shooter.

Sketchy accounts from traumatized tourists fueled narratives of a coordinated terrorist attack and a far-reaching cover-up.

The lack of a clear motive spawned wild claims that Stephen Paddock was a patsy or a spy — or maybe even still alive somewhere.

Already, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said he has seen more conspiracies and misinformation about this investigation than he has in other high-profile cases. The “keyboard tough guys” are out in force, he said.

Some of the stories were created or repeated by unscrupulous websites looking to cash in on the tragedy.

Undoubtedly, the loved ones of those killed in the attack have seen the fake news too, some of it hurtful, even dismissive of what they have lost...

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...vegas-shooting
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Old 13th October 2017, 10:16 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Conspiracy crowd working overtime since Las Vegas shooting




https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...vegas-shooting
Thanks for the link.

I believe that 99% of the CT crowd simply want to produce click-bait and cash in on the tragedy.
They are strictly anti gun-control, not because of some personal conviction, but because they hope fro more bloodshed they can monetize in the future.
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Old 13th October 2017, 11:15 AM   #172
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WAIT, a second skeptic ones!

The lights out of the window has nothing to do with two different gun reports from two different distances...
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Old 13th October 2017, 11:29 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
WAIT, a second skeptic ones!...

Where is he?
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Old 13th October 2017, 11:34 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
WAIT, a second skeptic ones!

The lights out of the window has nothing to do with two different gun reports from two different distances...
Which is shown, where exactly?

The only claim I've heard regarding this is from a completely incompetent, amateurish "audio analysis" from YouTube, which doesn't include anywhere hear the number of factors it would need to come anywhere close to determining this.

Objection: Assumes facts not in evidence.
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Old 13th October 2017, 11:36 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Objection: Assumes facts not in evidence.
After posting that, I realized that's pretty much the argument against everything King of Americas has posted on this board.
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Old 13th October 2017, 01:25 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
ETA; scooped by abaddon I see.
My humble apologies, but when anyone bases their opinion on anything Adams vomits on the internet, then I have to think that person is a gullible fool. It is just daft. All 11 of his points are trivially stupid.
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Old 13th October 2017, 01:40 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
False equivalent. You're trying to act like we're "instantly knowing" everything, rather than "following it until you could draw your conclusion", as you perceive yourself to be doing.

The problem is, you never seem to reach a conclusion. No matter how much evidence accumulates, no matter how many logical refutations of the CTs are provided, you're still JAQing off.

And that's the problem. We don't "instantly know" everything, we just have a far more reasonable standard for what evidence is needed to reach a reasonably likely conclusion.

If everyone in the world acted like you, we'd never get anywhere, on anything.
Re the highlighted- it should be stressed that refusing to reach conclusions is not skepticism, it's the kind of gaping credulity that makes a person the perfect target for folks (like Alex Jones) who sell CTs. Skepticism isn't a position, it's a process, and there's nothing about the process that makes doubt the default to be clung to in the face of reasonably assessed evidence, or requires the doubt to be endlessly nurtured by false equivalencies.

Then there are the folks who proclaim conclusions, but sneer at folks who disagree with them by saying things like "I thought you folks were skeptics!" This is defining skepticism by the conclusion, rather than the conclusion by skepticism. For the birther thing- "Obama was born in the US" is a conclusion- but so is "he wasn't born in the US." Birthers act as if it's not proper to apply skepticism to their idea, or rational to dismiss that conclusion without careful consideration, when the fact is it doesn't take much skepticism or consideration at all. There's a difference between "rational" and "rationalizing"- and the rationalizing is all they have in support of the conclusion they began with anyway.
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Old 13th October 2017, 04:04 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
My humble apologies, but when anyone bases their opinion on anything Adams vomits on the internet, then I have to think that person is a gullible fool. It is just daft. All 11 of his points are trivially stupid.
No apology required. It is remarkable how stupid Adams thinks his readers truly are if he expects them to believe what he puts on his website concerning the Vegas shooting.

Adams also calls himself a gun guy who knows shooting. That may be true, but he's also a whore. He prostitutes himself to convince people that a rifle is difficult to shoot and requires lots of training hit a very large group of helpless targets. The 400 yard distance from the hotel to the concert site was well within the maximum point blank range of an AR-15 zeroed at 200 yards using green tip ammo, although it falls short if using 55 grain bullets.

Literally just point and shoot; the slide fire stock might have thrown him off target though.
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Old 13th October 2017, 06:03 PM   #179
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Having read the deposition of the slip and fall law suit, I have to conclude that this was an attack on Las Vegas itself.

The deposition shows a failure who gambled vast sums of money every day and he never meant a thing. Even though he appears to gave looked at other targets he chose the place where he threw away his life. With his resources, he could gave started a foundation, started a company, done something to establish a legacy. Instead, he threw away his money, even taking his drink into the whale area so he wouldn't have to tip the waitress. What he was attacking was the fact that he never meant anything.
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Old 14th October 2017, 01:48 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
WAIT, a second skeptic ones!
Is there any evidence for this second skeptic?
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Old 14th October 2017, 02:00 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post



I think that is also why Mike Adams made that audio forensics video. You think he believes the FBI cannot do the forensics? No. He knows they are more expert than he would ever be. I think the reason he did that, was his way of exposing or pre-empting, ie to make sure that the audio is publicly put on the table. So he offered his findings to FBI. For all to see. His strategy. So if it were not addressed by FBI, anyone would see a red flag, Anyway, surely they were already on it before he did that.
.
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Perhaps remarks in post 98 will shed light on my view about Mike Adams in this instance.
Firstly, thanks Abaddon for going through Adams' points in detail. Bubba: which of this parade of ignorant and paranoid JAQing-off do you think demonstrate Adams' "expertise" in any relevant field?
What reason does Adams' give for believing that the FBI is likely to suppress evidence, and what effect does he think, or you think, that this display of clueless bandwagonning would have on a supposed cover-up? Any conspiracy that can cold-bloodedly murder and wound large numbers of people is surely unlikely to be swayed by a known loon and fraud posting on YouTube or his own website. It would be nothing to them to kill one more person to avoid exposure. Do you think, Bubba, that Adams is in danger? He himself seems unconcerned: he has not, as far as I am aware, gone into hiding.
You base a large part of your support for Adams on your interpretation of his motives. Beyond wanting to believe that his motives are as you claim do you have anything more to base this on?
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Old 14th October 2017, 05:02 AM   #182
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Mod Warning I have moved posts discussing the birthplace of President Obama to the appropriate thread. Please attempt to keep your conspiracy theories in the correct threads.
Posted By:Agatha
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Old 14th October 2017, 06:53 AM   #183
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Owing to the off topic drift and the moving, I will reiterate a comment made here, that was meant more for this topic. Rumors, some harmful, hurtful and hateful, depend on the kind of responsibility-shucking behavior we see here. The wacko theories and agendas of nut-jobs, dim bulbs and bigots are proliferated with the excuse that they are already out there, and the rumor-monger's facile disavowal of responsibility is always at the ready in the rare event that an actual fact cannot be ignored.

The fake innocence of the irresponsible does not conceal the fact that proliferating gossip and lies is doing the work of the fools and bigots who invent it. To help them worsen our world is not a service. It is a shame.
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Old 14th October 2017, 12:26 PM   #184
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The investigation is still underway. The Las Vegas police brief the press daily with an updated over-view. No "Official Report" has been issued by any of the investigating parties (NVMPD, Clark County Sheriff, FBI, and ATF).

What you're seeing here is the modern CTists working the internet to spread their BS, and cloud the issues.

We know there was no evidence of a second shooter because the police would have a BOLO out for his arrest. We know there wasn't a second shooter because the area was flooded with police during the shooting.
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Old 15th October 2017, 05:56 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
YouTube clips? Okay, let me ask this: Do you know how YouTube compresses audio? Do you know how the devices from which the videos were uploaded gathered audio? Do you even know which devices running which software originally captured the audio? Do you know how well your computer's speakers reproduce sounds across the spectrum? Do you know what software your computer is using to translate the YouTube output to instructions for your speakers? Do you know exactly where the recording devices were located? Do you know the acoustic qualities of the place the recordings were made?

I'm pretty sure that armchair audio analysis is worthless unless all these questions can be answered. Believing that one can listen to a clip on YouTube and know anything about the original sound of an event is the same as the belief that one could watch "The Perfect Storm" and captain a fishing boat.
I sent him a video of the muzzle flashes on the 32nd floor, https://youtu.be/IT43xw-CCvA
and challenged him to verify his analysis. I doubt I hear back from him. Having a know origin point gives him one actual bit of the mountain of data he is missing, but a start.
The only way that an audio analysis would work is if you had a recording device which caught each and every shot. Then count the spent shell casings in the room.
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Old 16th October 2017, 03:26 PM   #186
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Just noticed a truther on youtube mention this,not sure if it's pareidolia or not. Does the shooter have a a tattoo of "13" on his neck as in picture ?http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8000221.html
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Old 16th October 2017, 09:27 PM   #187
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Question

Originally Posted by Azrael 5 View Post
Just noticed a truther on youtube mention this,not sure if it's pareidolia or not. Does the shooter have a a tattoo of "13" on his neck as in picture ?http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8000221.html
I can't tell either, but it's not exactly unheard-of. My roommate in grad school was/is a professional gambler & has a tattoo of a 13 superimposed on a skull/skeletal hand showing a dead man's hand.
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Old 16th October 2017, 11:42 PM   #188
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I just saw a video of a helicopter filming the concert grounds as the police were marking evidence. I did not notice before but the place is covered in AstroTurf with narrow walkways between. Mike Adams is basing his "evidence" on bullets striking the pavement. That makes it really easy...30 shots 8 ground hits, (besides AstroTurf, bullets hit people also). Match them ground hits to the shots which most fits his theory, who knew science was so easy.
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Old 17th October 2017, 02:04 AM   #189
Azrael 5
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Originally Posted by 332nd View Post
I can't tell either, but it's not exactly unheard-of. My roommate in grad school was/is a professional gambler & has a tattoo of a 13 superimposed on a skull/skeletal hand showing a dead man's hand.
Ah but apparently it was missing on the "death photo". Existence of such is news to me.
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Old Yesterday, 10:34 AM   #190
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Alledged picture of shooter's corpse -GRAPHIC!
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/EOt-J3e6l5Q/maxresdefault.jpg
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