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Old 8th January 2021, 07:42 AM   #1
Trebuchet
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What did Trump & Supporters expect on Jan 6?

Did he and they really think they could overturn the election results? That threatening Congress would keep him in power? That Pence would declare him the winner? I don't get it.
Oh, I'm certain they had many different ideas -- all of them wrong. But what, especially, did Trump think was going to happen?
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:47 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Did he and they really think they could overturn the election results? That threatening Congress would keep him in power? That Pence would declare him the winner? I don't get it.
Oh, I'm certain they had many different ideas -- all of them wrong. But what, especially, did Trump think was going to happen?
He doesn't really care. Reading excerpts from people that have dealt with him for years, he loves chaos. He pits one side against the other. He did it in business, he did it with his staff.

What the protesters thought - well it seems that most of their thoughts would be better on a bumper sticker. "Take our country back", "Revolution", "This is our house", blah blah blah. There really is not thought as you or I would recognize it.
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:54 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
What the protesters thought - well it seems that most of their thoughts would be better on a bumper sticker. "Take our country back", "Revolution", "This is our house", blah blah blah. There really is not thought as you or I would recognize it.


Yeah, this. Listen to some of the interviews with these people. They're not "thinking", they're living out some fantasy where just being The Good Guys (so they think) means they effortlessly win in a swell of patriotic music. It's revolution as taught by bad TV shows, movies and video games. The opposition are just a bunch of extras or NPCs that exist only to die as soon as the Big Damn Heroes show up to claim all the glory and sex.

In so much as they "thought" anything, they thought the Democratic lawmakers would really be a bunch of "soy-boys" who would melt away in the face of their manliness, and let the Republicans vote to reject the election.
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:55 AM   #4
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The answer to the first three questions is "Yes." The answer to the last question is "These suckers are going to make me President for Life!"

Trump should be tried for treason, convicted and hanged in public.
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:55 AM   #5
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The mob absolutely would have lynched members of Congress had they got their hands on them. A well placed shot at the doors put a stop to that.
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:56 AM   #6
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1. Get into the chambers while congressmen and congresswomen are still inside.

2. Shout Trump propaganda at them for hours.

3. ???

4. Trump is re-elected.


Number 3 might involve violence.
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:58 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
He doesn't really care. Reading excerpts from people that have dealt with him for years, he loves chaos. He pits one side against the other. He did it in business, he did it with his staff.

What the protesters thought - well it seems that most of their thoughts would be better on a bumper sticker. "Take our country back", "Revolution", "This is our house", blah blah blah. There really is not thought as you or I would recognize it.
I'm beginning to think that ex-member Interesting Ian might have been right about the existence of P-Zombies, incapable of conscious thought, only capable of reaction to input.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:00 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The mob absolutely would have lynched members of Congress had they got their hands on them. A well placed shot at the doors put a stop to that.
That and the actions of SOME of the Capitol Police, who did their duty and defended. They should be lauded, while the scum police who opened barriers, gave directions to offices, posed for selfies and even ran away should spend the next ten years in prison for being accessories.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:02 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Olmstead View Post
1. Get into the chambers while congressmen and congresswomen are still inside.

2. Shout Trump propaganda at them for hours.

3. ???

4. Trump is re-elected.


Number 3 might involve violence.
That gallows outside was functional. Some of them had plans to use it.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:04 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Did he and they really think they could overturn the election results? That threatening Congress would keep him in power? That Pence would declare him the winner? I don't get it.
Oh, I'm certain they had many different ideas -- all of them wrong. But what, especially, did Trump think was going to happen?
I don't claim to know what, if anything, goes on under that hairpiece, but let's remember that Trump is really a one-trick pony. He's used to getting his way through intimidation. Just as when he had to deal with small-time contractors and other little people, his first instinct was to sue. With little people, it unfortunately pretty much works even if you have no case; at the very least, it intimidates them into settling because they know they can't afford to go toe-to-toe with an alleged billionaire in courts.

With states and the federal government, this obviously doesn't work; it doesn't help that his law team consists entirely of incompetent nuts and clowns, but going against an entity with bottomless pockets is tough enough even if you do have a case, and he didn't.

So, really the only options are blackmail and (threats of) violence. Apparently whatever hooks he has on Graham etc. weren't enough, so it had to be violence. I have trouble reasoning any further, but don't forget that so far he has never had to deal with the consequences of his dirty stuff before.

As for the morons who stormed the Capitol, I don't have a clue. Sure, they got in for a while, but when it comes to overtaking the government, you couldn't take friggin' Liechtenstein with that bunch.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:05 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Did he and they really think they could overturn the election results? That threatening Congress would keep him in power? That Pence would declare him the winner? I don't get it.
Oh, I'm certain they had many different ideas -- all of them wrong. But what, especially, did Trump think was going to happen?
No. All of that was just a pretext to override democracy and install Trump again.

Trump calculated if he could just get Pence to refuse to certify, then he could just carry on by force, with the National Guard and the armed forces still under his command.

None of them really believes the election was rigged.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:06 AM   #12
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There are at least two different individuals who came with zip tie restraints. At least some weren't just there for a rowdy party in the capitol, they wanted to take hostages.

FBI is looking for a pipe bomber that was photographed. A truck was found with rifles and ammo.

Quote:
Many have asked. I have referred Male #2's name and details to the @FBI
and will not be naming him right now.

However, I believe you should know that his bio includes:
-longtime security clearance
-graduate of a military academy
-Senior officer's rank at retirement
https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status...89098697003008

Pics in link

One of the men with ziptie restraints was also photographed leaving Pelosi's office.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:06 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
That gallows outside was functional. Some of them had plans to use it.
I have little doubt that if the mob had gotten their hands on, say, Ilhan Omar, America would have had its first lynching of the millennium. Probably streamed live on social media.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:07 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The mob absolutely would have lynched members of Congress had they got their hands on them. A well placed shot at the doors put a stop to that.
I watched the video of the woman being fatally shot. After she goes down, one of the putschers yells "why did they have to shoot her?!".

They had stormed the Capitol, guns drawn, and were trying to force their way into the legislative complex. Both the house speaker and vice president in the building and under threat. I'm surprised only one of the Trumpers was shot.

Whoever expected this to be looked at as just a show of force or another innocent protest, that they would prance around inside the Capitol taking selfies for then to go home and have a beer in the backyard... sound about as deluded as your average Trumpkin, when I think about it.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:09 AM   #15
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Like this from the 2:20 mark:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:09 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Did he and they really think they could overturn the election results? That threatening Congress would keep him in power? That Pence would declare him the winner? I don't get it.
Oh, I'm certain they had many different ideas -- all of them wrong. But what, especially, did Trump think was going to happen?
I had the same thought, what was their plan, and have come to the conclusion, they didn't have one. My theory is they thought they would storm the capitol, Trump would then enact something, and they would be celebrated as patriots, or something. My guess is they thought Trump was waiting on them to act, so he could act, and then something.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:11 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
...snip.., you couldn't take friggin' Liechtenstein with that bunch.
Yeah but only because they have a bolt on their front door....
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:15 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
I don't claim to know what, if anything, goes on under that hairpiece, but let's remember that Trump is really a one-trick pony. He's used to getting his way through intimidation. Just as when he had to deal with small-time contractors and other little people, his first instinct was to sue. With little people, it unfortunately pretty much works even if you have no case; at the very least, it intimidates them into settling because they know they can't afford to go toe-to-toe with an alleged billionaire in courts.

With states and the federal government, this obviously doesn't work; it doesn't help that his law team consists entirely of incompetent nuts and clowns, but going against an entity with bottomless pockets is tough enough even if you do have a case, and he didn't.

So, really the only options are blackmail and (threats of) violence. Apparently whatever hooks he has on Graham etc. weren't enough, so it had to be violence. I have trouble reasoning any further, but don't forget that so far he has never had to deal with the consequences of his dirty stuff before.

As for the morons who stormed the Capitol, I don't have a clue. Sure, they got in for a while, but when it comes to overtaking the government, you couldn't take friggin' Liechtenstein with that bunch.
I think even that is more thinking than Trump does. If he wants something and he can’t have it he sulks, he shouts, he smashes things, he “not rape rape” rapes his wife. And that is all he can do, the tactics you mention like the sueing is what others do to give him what he wants.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:16 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I watched the video of the woman being fatally shot. After she goes down, one of the putschers yells "why did they have to shoot her?!".

They had stormed the Capitol, guns drawn, and were trying to force their way into the legislative complex. Both the house speaker and vice president in the building and under threat. I'm surprised only one of the Trumpers was shot.

Whoever expected this to be looked at as just a show of force or another innocent protest, that they would prance around inside the Capitol taking selfies for then to go home and have a beer in the backyard... sound about as deluded as your average Trumpkin, when I think about it.
I believe the first door to the left in that hallway (along with all the other doors to the left) opens up into the House Chamber where representatives were sheltering.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:18 AM   #20
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Trump believed that his mob would scare Republicans in the Senate and Pence into breaking Constitutional Law.
And I believe that he succeeded in scaring most Republicans even now: just like Raffensberger and others received death threats, so will all Republicans who said they would object but didn't.
And Pence better invest in some Home Security.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:18 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I watched the video of the woman being fatally shot. After she goes down, one of the putschers yells "why did they have to shoot her?!".

They had stormed the Capitol, guns drawn, and were trying to force their way into the legislative complex. Both the house speaker and vice president in the building and under threat. I'm surprised only one of the Trumpers was shot.

Whoever expected this to be looked at as just a show of force or another innocent protest, that they would prance around inside the Capitol taking selfies for then to go home and have a beer in the backyard... sound about as deluded as your average Trumpkin, when I think about it.
Well, one problem is that for a while now we've not met force with force. You can go back to takeover of the BLM facilities in Nevada by Cliven Bundy. And the fallout from Waco and Ruby Ridge, and we've become a bit too gun-shy against sedition.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:19 AM   #22
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I wonder how the movie played in his head.

The noble patriots would storm the building and find those craven, cowardly vote-stealers red handed, doubtless plotting their communist takeover. Confronted with their crimes by We-the-people, the traitors would break down, confess and open a cupboard out of which would tumble twenty million stolen Trump votes.

And he may well think he would have gotten away with it if his invasion force had been the organised, disciplined, clean-cut, lantern-jawed heroes he hoped for and not the shambolic, disorganised "low class" clowns he actually got.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:21 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
I had the same thought, what was their plan, and have come to the conclusion, they didn't have one. My theory is they thought they would storm the capitol, Trump would then enact something, and they would be celebrated as patriots, or something. My guess is they thought Trump was waiting on them to act, so he could act, and then something.
What they all had in common was a belief that the election was stolen.

How? By whom? Shadowy figures passing USB sticks, and sneaking fake ballots into counting centers, and stashing fake ballots under tables, and all sorts of nefarious ways, none of which were supported by truth. It was a whole mob of people who had one thing in common. They were all denying reality.

Suddenly, reality was that blood was gushing from a dying woman. It really put a damper on the festivities.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:21 AM   #24
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Trump initially ran, and his really hard core base supported him, on a platform of entertainment- US politics as just another reality-TV show. What they expected on Nov 3 was renewal for another season full of exciting episodes. What they expected on Jan 6 was the network (so to speak) caving to their demand for that new season.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:22 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The mob absolutely would have lynched members of Congress had they got their hands on them. A well placed shot at the doors put a stop to that.
Absolutely. That officer was protecting elected officials lying prone in the aisles fearing for their lives.

Who knows what else could have happened? Thankfully someone secured the Electoral College votes before being evacuated. What if the Trumpkins had found them and burned them? That would likely be a symbolic win. If I understand correctly, there are multiple copies in 2 or 3 different places, but still.

If that mob had got their hands on Pence, I am sure they would have killed him. Imagine that. For four years you are MAGA hero #2 Within two short weeks you go from that to being torn apart by a MAGA mob. Some members of that mob tearing Pence apart might even have been wearing Trump/Pence merchandise.

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Old 8th January 2021, 08:28 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
There are at least two different individuals who came with zip tie restraints. At least some weren't just there for a rowdy party in the capitol, they wanted to take hostages.

FBI is looking for a pipe bomber that was photographed. A truck was found with rifles and ammo.



https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status...89098697003008

Pics in link

One of the men with ziptie restraints was also photographed leaving Pelosi's office.
This can’t be forgotten.

We’ve seen all the goofballs running around taking selfies, but there were some very dangerous people among them who had very serious intentions.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:30 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Did he and they really think they could overturn the election results?
Again that's how we use to think back before the post-fact world. That question makes no sense in a post-fact world because it assume the election results are a "fact" that can't be changed.

No. They didn't think they could overturn the election. But that didn't wasn't the point. They wanted to create an alternative narrative where what happened in the election was some kind of debatable opinion instead of an objective fact.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:56 AM   #28
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If DC was open carry and these guys had long guns on their backs, I'm afraid the interior protective services... the guys who actually opened fire... would have been overwhelmed and we'd be reading about congressmen and senators taken hostage and/or murdered, and the country might be heading to civil war. Thats how close to the brink we came two days ago.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:57 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
What they all had in common was a belief that the election was stolen.

How? By whom? Shadowy figures passing USB sticks, and sneaking fake ballots into counting centers, and stashing fake ballots under tables, and all sorts of nefarious ways, none of which were supported by truth. It was a whole mob of people who had one thing in common. They were all denying reality.

Suddenly, reality was that blood was gushing from a dying woman. It really put a damper on the festivities.

I once read a short story in which a teenager takes some martial arts classes and decides to become a costumed vigilante, and he treats the whole thing like he's a character in a video game. He gets into a fight with a mugger and accidentally kills him. The final line is something like "Everything was suddenly very real."
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:57 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I watched the video of the woman being fatally shot. After she goes down, one of the putschers yells "why did they have to shoot her?!".

They had stormed the Capitol, guns drawn, and were trying to force their way into the legislative complex. Both the house speaker and vice president in the building and under threat. I'm surprised only one of the Trumpers was shot.

Whoever expected this to be looked at as just a show of force or another innocent protest, that they would prance around inside the Capitol taking selfies for then to go home and have a beer in the backyard... sound about as deluded as your average Trumpkin, when I think about it.
Were guns drawn? I haven't seen evidence of that.

I don't doubt that there were guns on some of the mob.
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Old 8th January 2021, 08:58 AM   #31
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Trump just whores for attention. And that's one thing he's good at.
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Old 8th January 2021, 09:28 AM   #32
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They'll try it again. Now is the time to badger, bully, threaten, and challenge* politicians to mount heavy and visible security around state and federal sites that could be vulnerable to mobs, organized or semi-organized or wild-grown. The pols are unnerved at the moment, as they should be, and it's in their personal, not just professional, interest to respond.

* That's called democracy. Best form of government in the world. And I'm tired of hearing otherwise.
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Old 8th January 2021, 09:47 AM   #33
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No, no, no. The best form of government is Trumpublic, the classiest, most luxurious show of total chaos and incompetence that other people's money can buy.
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Old 8th January 2021, 09:49 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
He doesn't really care. Reading excerpts from people that have dealt with him for years, he loves chaos. He pits one side against the other. He did it in business, he did it with his staff.

What the protesters thought - well it seems that most of their thoughts would be better on a bumper sticker. "Take our country back", "Revolution", "This is our house", blah blah blah. There really is not thought as you or I would recognize it.
One thing I find remarkable is how Trump (not for the first time, but never more blatantly) lied to the crowd, in capital letters, underlined, and in filigreed font:

We, you and I, all of us together, are going to march up Pennsylvania Avenue to the capitol. That's right, I'm joining you. All of us will hold hands. I will put my arms around whoever's closest. You. Me. Marching. I'll pose for selfies. I'll lead you in song. I'll sign tits with my Sharpie until my hand cramps up. Okay? Ready? On your mark, get set, let's go!

And then he turned on his heels and went to the White House.

Dear Trump supporters: one of the stupidest people on the planet can't get over how he's found a bunch of people stupider than him.
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Old 8th January 2021, 09:55 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
I had the same thought, what was their plan, and have come to the conclusion, they didn't have one. My theory is they thought they would storm the capitol, Trump would then enact something, and they would be celebrated as patriots, or something. My guess is they thought Trump was waiting on them to act, so he could act, and then something.
I think it was exactly this. They (well, many of them) believed that Trump would invoke Martial Law, or dissolve the Congress, or something like that.

I think that they also believed that Trump really had won in a landslide and that the vast majority of Americans were behind them; once the Capitol was taken, resistance would melt and nobody would try to take it back. They were just the heroes that got there first.
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Old 8th January 2021, 09:57 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Were guns drawn? I haven't seen evidence of that.

I don't doubt that there were guns on some of the mob.
Look for videos of the woman being shot, sadly, they're out there, and you'll see someone behind her with some sort of assault* style rifle.
As others have said, my biggest fear was they were going to come upon some senators or congress people and enact a second amendment solution on the spot.






* I don't know jack about guns to have a clue what make it was, but it t'weren't no basic huntin' rifle.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:04 AM   #37
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I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Trump and his patriotic supporters had nothing to do with this attack on the capitol. True red-blooded Americans would never desecrate the sanctity of government buildings. This is obviously the work of America-hating commie libruls, antifa, BLM, muslims, joos, and chy-nah.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:06 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Look for videos of the woman being shot, sadly, they're out there, and you'll see someone behind her with some sort of assault* style rifle.
As others have said, my biggest fear was they were going to come upon some senators or congress people and enact a second amendment solution on the spot.

Those were other cops, who were just a bit too late to the party to be of much use.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:07 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Look for videos of the woman being shot, sadly, they're out there, and you'll see someone behind her with some sort of assault* style rifle.
As others have said, my biggest fear was they were going to come upon some senators or congress people and enact a second amendment solution on the spot.






* I don't know jack about guns to have a clue what make it was, but it t'weren't no basic huntin' rifle.
I believe, those were Capitol Police security with long guns. Some kind of SWAT style unit. But I guess they could've been terrorists in uniform.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:10 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Trump and his patriotic supporters had nothing to do with this attack on the capitol. True red-blooded Americans would never desecrate the sanctity of government buildings. This is obviously the work of America-hating commie libruls, antifa, BLM, muslims, joos, and chy-nah.
A lot of rightwing websites are using exactly this defense. I would guess that one thing neither Trump nor his supporters expected is any need to defend them for doing what they thought needed to be done by denying them the credit they expected for doing it.
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