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Tags bigfoot , bill munns , Patterson-Gimlin film

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Old 12th June 2013, 10:49 AM   #361
mustbeso
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
"Never trust anything that'd eat its own **** and **** its own mother."

ETA:

So dogs have no fear of bears, or humans, but they instinctively fear footie? And bigfoot enthusiasts buy this?
Bigfooters buy most everything, litterally and figuratively. The idea that bigfoot is almost absolutely nocturnal is my favorite footerism after that whole phonetic language nonsense. By claiming nocturnalism, thermal images are automatically given more weight as evidence and you don't have to screw around with those costumes and such. The John Green thermal is my personal favorite. he not only didn't need a costume, he just filmed himself.
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Old 12th June 2013, 10:54 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by Northern Lights View Post
My thermal was during a BFRO expedition (tale for another thread).

Northern Minnesota is where I've had the most luck. Heading up on Thursday for the weekend for some primitive camping and squatching with a group of friends.
Please post the thermal when you find time.

Thanks
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Old 12th June 2013, 12:08 PM   #363
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Yeah, White Lady was so scared among all those bigfoot tracks and scent...practically dragged John Green out of the area...
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

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Old 12th June 2013, 05:09 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
Please post the thermal when you find time.

Thanks
And post up some of that Minnie Bigfoot evidence as well.
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Old 12th June 2013, 05:55 PM   #365
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Stop being rude. Let's take a look at the evidence.
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Old 12th June 2013, 06:03 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
Stop being rude. Let's take a look at the evidence.
That's what I'm asking for.
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Old 12th June 2013, 06:08 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
Stop being rude. Let's take a look at the evidence.
Good idea, let's.
























































































Nope.
Still hasn't changed my mind....
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Old 13th June 2013, 01:14 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Northern Lights View Post
...He doesn't claim that Sasquatch exists, but in his latest breakdown at the Texas Bigfoot Conference, he does state that PGF is not a man in a costume...
Hmmmm. Bill Munns says it's not a man, and it's not a beast. That could mean only one thing. He's being held captive in a Turkish prison and he can't talk freely.

Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Good idea, let's.

<crickets>

Nope.
Still hasn't changed my mind....
Good one!
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Old 13th June 2013, 01:59 PM   #369
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Maybe hes joining the bigfoot-is-human camp, therefore Patty isn't a man in a suit she's just a big, ugly woman.
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Old 15th June 2013, 06:50 PM   #370
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I would love for Bill Munns to reach his funding target and actually make his movie. I would furthermore love for it to strike such a response in the mainstream that folks outside of the BFF and other communities to start spouting about how real Bigfoot must be. The reason I want this to happen is in the hope that this response to his movie would provoke an equally serious skeptical analysis of the PGF. I mean once it is out there and main stream, so to speak, surely some qualified skeptical response would finally follow? I am fairly tired of Footers dancing around and claiming no one can recreate the costume. That is one of their favorite cult mantras and I am tired of it. But personally I lack the experience or skills or even resources, and well desire, to do this myself. So I just kind of have to sit back and listen to them while the skeptical response remains fairly absent, at least as far as efforts to recreate the event.

So if the movie finally provokes some one to finally pick up the gauntlet and say let's put this to bed, that would be most welcome. I find it hard to believe that with proper incentive and resources that the PGF cannot be debunked. I just think no one, so far, in the skeptical camp with the necessary skills and resources has cared enough to do so. Perhaps his "academy award" worthy movie, would actually provoke a response that he most certainly would not welcome?
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Old 15th June 2013, 06:56 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
I would love for Bill Munns to reach his funding target and actually make his movie. I would furthermore love for it to strike such a response in the mainstream that folks outside of the BFF and other communities to start spouting about how real Bigfoot must be. The reason I want this to happen is in the hope that this response to his movie would provoke an equally serious skeptical analysis of the PGF. I mean once it is out there and main stream, so to speak, surely some qualified skeptical response would finally follow? I am fairly tired of Footers dancing around and claiming no one can recreate the costume. That is one of their favorite cult mantras and I am tired of it. But personally I lack the experience or skills or even resources, and well desire, to do this myself. So I just kind of have to sit back and listen to them while the skeptical response remains fairly absent, at least as far as efforts to recreate the event.

So if the movie finally provokes some one to finally pick up the gauntlet and say let's put this to bed, that would be most welcome. I find it hard to believe that with proper incentive and resources that the PGF cannot be debunked. I just think no one, so far, in the skeptical camp with the necessary skills and resources has cared enough to do so. Perhaps his "academy award" worthy movie, would actually provoke a response that he most certainly would not welcome?
There's no obligation for skeptics to even lift a finger. The obligations are entirely on the believers and supporters to show that their evidence, whatever it may be, is legitimate. That includes the PGF.

Besides that, proof of the PGF being a hoax would have just about zero influence on believers. Any money or time spent trying to dissuade believers and profiteers, is wasted.

That includes the time I spend at JREF, even though I really have no intentions of influencing believers.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 15th June 2013, 07:16 PM   #372
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I understand there is no obligation to respond to the PGF. I was more thinking of incentive. If his movie was a serious success, which I doubt anyway, but let's pretend that it was for a moment, then surely there would be money to be made in debunking such a popular notion? Hollywood loves to respond to successfull movies with either copy cats or counter points. I think a serious response to last year's Documentary of the Year would give some studio enough incentive to pay some one to give it another look through. That's of course predicated upon his movie actually being made, and it being successful.
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Old 15th June 2013, 07:34 PM   #373
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I would have to agree that it's up to proponents to prove their side. Skeptics don't have to prove anything at this point because Bigfoot is not known to exist. But with that being said, I think dmaker's point is that the PGF could use an analysis that will prove it's a hoax just to put an end to the never-ending controversy. There's the thing about how believers will keep on believing, but I don't think it's so much the case with the PGF as it is with some of the other stuff in Bigfootery. A problem I see with this though, is that there is a general lack of interest in debunking the film. I also think it can't be done, but I guess that's more of a personal opinion
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Old 15th June 2013, 07:40 PM   #374
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Yes, I was hoping that a successful pro PGF film might create an interest in finally debunking it.
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Old 15th June 2013, 07:52 PM   #375
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I can't recall a successful debunking TV show...or a show that gave debunking much air time...

There's almost zero interest in debunking beliefs.

In fact, I think it's seen as being a poor sport or sour grapes, etc.

Mythbusters is about as close as it ever got, and that's pretty weak.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

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Old 15th June 2013, 08:01 PM   #376
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At this point, I would welcome even Mythbusters..
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Old 15th June 2013, 08:04 PM   #377
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And to be clear, I think there has been some great debunking of the PGF done here, I just would love for it to get the same stage that Munns wants to create for his "research".
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Old 15th June 2013, 08:49 PM   #378
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The ultimate debunking of the PGF is that there is no bigfoot monkey anywhere, ever. Nor will there be, ever.

Lots of folks are playing pretend; some of them know they're playing, some not The difference between the two is negligible due to lack of monkey. But, this lack of monkey will do nothing to deter the monkey believers and the monkey exploiters in their efforts to promote the pretend monkey.
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Old 15th June 2013, 09:04 PM   #379
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I agree, but the PGF remains such a strong touchstone amongst Footers that it would be great if someone could finally just debunk their Rosetta Stone and knock that particular wind out of their sails once and for all and have some sort of qualified response to it that even the Sweaty Yetis of the world would have to concede would be so field levelling that the rest of it would just crumble under it's own tacky weight.
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Old 15th June 2013, 09:29 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
I agree, but the PGF remains such a strong touchstone amongst Footers that it would be great if someone could finally just debunk their Rosetta Stone and knock that particular wind out of their sails once and for all and have some sort of qualified response to it that even the Sweaty Yetis of the world would have to concede would be so field levelling that the rest of it would just crumble under it's own tacky weight.
Look at it this way: even if someone somewhere were able to definitively debunk the PGF, enthusiasts will still point to the "thousands" of alleged sightings, which, as anecdotes, are impossible to debunk other than to say "cool story bro'." The follow up question to this cool story is "well, where's the monkey?"

There will never be an biological answer, ever; not from the nitwits at NAWAC nor the boobs at BFRO, nor from the ubiquitous habituators. Still though, there will be campfire stories for the exploiters to exploit and the believers to believe, and the rest of us to wonder just whotf is who.

But never, ever will there be the monkey.
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Old 15th June 2013, 09:37 PM   #381
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^^ Well said and true enough. Totally agree.
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Old 15th June 2013, 09:56 PM   #382
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It's possible that Bigfoot may actually fade away over time. Technology is improving rapidly enough that I think there might soon come a time where there is no doubt whether the monkey exists or not.

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Old 15th June 2013, 10:13 PM   #383
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OS, I am sure that Footers would put that doubt at 0.00005 percent that BF is not real. Now if that number has certain stink to it, it's because I pulled it out my !@#

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Old 15th June 2013, 10:58 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
It's possible that Bigfoot may actually fade away over time. Technology is improving rapidly enough that I think there might soon come a time where there is no doubt whether the monkey exists or not.

That day happened long ago, except for with footers. Real animals leave real animal sign. Follow the evidence. Everything bigfoot lead to men hoaxing/pranking/lying. There is your bigfoot.
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Old 15th June 2013, 11:22 PM   #385
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What's most amazing to me is this thread has nearly 400 replies and countless more views.
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Old 15th June 2013, 11:35 PM   #386
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Old 16th June 2013, 12:16 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
The ultimate debunking of the PGF is that there is no bigfoot monkey anywhere, ever. Nor will there be, ever.

Lots of folks are playing pretend; some of them know they're playing, some not The difference between the two is negligible due to lack of monkey. But, this lack of monkey will do nothing to deter the monkey believers and the monkey exploiters in their efforts to promote the pretend monkey.
As long as belief in monkey = money the monkey will never die.
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Old 16th June 2013, 06:41 AM   #388
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"Debunking" PGF episodes were already made. Footers will say they are not valid because... Well, basically because the conclusion is "not real", and they don't want to hear this.

Now, look at (pseudo)History and Discovery channel's grid. You'll see plenty of ancient aliens, hidden archeology, ghosts, doomsday prophecies, bible-is-truth stuff. How many shows can we see that actually show these things are utter crap? Why? Because truth about these subjects will not sell. People don't like to watch their beliefs being questioned and shown false.

Case in point- 2012 Maya doomsday. How many shows were aired, cabled, whatever, actually questioning the whole nonsense? And now, we are in 2013. How many excuses have we seen from History channel? Why not a "The 2012 Maya Doomsday Scam" documentary, interviewing the failed prophets and book authors? Why not show how people were fooled?

Reason 1: Won't sell because people don't like to be shown wrong about their beliefs, even when it all too obvious, inescapable.
Reason 2: Truth is, show producers and TV executives were part of the scam. At the moment they decided to promote and profit from 2012 Maya doomsday scheme, they became part of it.

Same is valid with bigfoot. Producers of "pro-bigfoot" shows are part of the scam. TV executives accepting to show them are parts of the scam. Footers will follow whatever snake oil salesmen like Moneymaker, Munns and Meldrum say that will keep the flame of belief alive. There's little profit in debunking.
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Old 16th June 2013, 07:45 PM   #389
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I think the clear red neon sign that Patterson hoaxed the PGF is that absolutely no further efforts were made in the spot to find Patty or signs of Patty. Patterson/Gimlin make no effort at a search, and no one else does, either. The spot was vacated immediately and basically abandoned.

Laverty happened to already be in the area, and he does take a few pictures, but no one else even bothers to look for the site for more than a week.

Imagine that. They don't even try to find the place, let alone try to track down Patty.

It's not like they weren't familiar with the area or didn't have the means.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 16th June 2013, 08:28 PM   #390
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I can recall BobG saying in a documentary that they rode through the area for many miles sometime after the encounter without ever coming across evidence. He also said there was a smell in the air just before the encounter which I found very interesting because all of this is important information that hasn't been written on the internet

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Old 16th June 2013, 08:59 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
I can recall BobG saying in a documentary that they rode through the area for many miles sometime after the encounter without ever coming across evidence. He also said there was a smell in the air just before the encounter which I found very interesting because all of this is important information that hasn't been written on the internet
I recall none of that said anywhere around the time of the encounter, nor do I recall reports of said trip.

I don't doubt that it may have been said many years later.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

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Old 17th June 2013, 04:38 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
I can recall BobG saying in a documentary that they rode through the area for many miles sometime after the encounter without ever coming across evidence. He also said there was a smell in the air just before the encounter which I found very interesting because all of this is important information that hasn't been written on the internet
Important why?

Because people have been walking hundreds of millions of miles around bigfoot territory for hundreds (or thousands, depending when you start the clock) of years and not a single reliable bit of evidence has been brought forward?

Because it shows a scammer retrofitting his tale according to newer versions of bigfoot lore?

Or it is important because it matches your beliefs, making you feel that cozy confirmation feeling?

You are being fooled by Munns, by Meldrum, by the top- and mid ranking footer "elite". Just like you've been fooled by Melba's scam.
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Old 17th June 2013, 04:40 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
I can recall BobG saying in a documentary that they rode through the area for many miles sometime after the encounter without ever coming across evidence. He also said there was a smell in the air just before the encounter which I found very interesting because all of this is important information that hasn't been written on the internet
The most important information of all is that there ain't no such creature as Patty.

Guy in suit.
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Old 17th June 2013, 06:51 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
I can recall BobG saying in a documentary that they rode through the area for many miles sometime after the encounter without ever coming across evidence. He also said there was a smell in the air just before the encounter which I found very interesting because all of this is important information that hasn't been written on the internet
Bob G has lots of different versions.
In less polite society - that is what people call lying.
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Old 17th June 2013, 07:05 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
I can recall BobG saying in a documentary that they rode through the area for many miles sometime after the encounter without ever coming across evidence.
No. Patterson occasionally wrote that they tracked Patty for 3.5 miles after seeing her. But when that scenario has been asked of Gimlin he says no. He says they didn't track or try to follow her for miles. But he also won't come right out and say that Patterson lied. And the faithful believers won't ask the question so that Gimlin has no choice other than to say that Roger lied.

But none of that matters anyway. Hoaxers tell lies about their hoax.

It's true that the behavior of P&G was and is that of hoaxers. But as a believer, you are not in that realm of thinking.
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Old 17th June 2013, 07:12 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
I can recall BobG saying in a documentary that they rode through the area for many miles sometime after the encounter without ever coming across evidence. He also said there was a smell in the air just before the encounter which I found very interesting because all of this is important information that hasn't been written on the internet
As time goes by his memory gets more and more detailed.
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Old 17th June 2013, 07:14 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Bob G has lots of different versions.
In less polite society - that is what people call lying.
He just refuses to restrict him self to reality.
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Old 17th June 2013, 07:16 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
No. Patterson occasionally wrote that they tracked Patty for 3.5 miles after seeing her. But when that scenario has been asked of Gimlin he says no. He says they didn't track or try to follow her for miles. But he also won't come right out and say that Patterson lied. And the faithful believers won't ask the question so that Gimlin has no choice other than to say that Roger lied.

But none of that matters anyway. Hoaxers tell lies about their hoax.

It's true that the behavior of P&G was and is that of hoaxers. But as a believer, you are not in that realm of thinking.
A hoaxer is just a liar who's willing to put a little effort into it.
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Old 17th June 2013, 07:19 AM   #399
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Recently he firmly said that he has no recollection whatsoever of holding a camera. But then who is holding the camera filming Patterson?

One nice thing is that if Gimlin slips into dementia with advancing age... the believers will never notice.
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Old 17th June 2013, 07:26 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
No. Patterson occasionally wrote that they tracked Patty for 3.5 miles after seeing her. But when that scenario has been asked of Gimlin he says no. He says they didn't track or try to follow her for miles. But he also won't come right out and say that Patterson lied. And the faithful believers won't ask the question so that Gimlin has no choice other than to say that Roger lied.

But none of that matters anyway. Hoaxers tell lies about their hoax.

It's true that the behavior of P&G was and is that of hoaxers. But as a believer, you are not in that realm of thinking.
Ah...I didn't realize that OS was talking about the tracking story.

The tracking story is part of the original incident, so even if it were true, it wouldn't be a return visit to follow up on the encounter.

As we all know, it amounts to about 7 miles of traveling in very rough country on horseback, the first half of which would be pretty slow if you were trying to follow tracks...the second half of which would still be slow...

And of course, Titmus says Patty was just sitting on the hill right there, watching them...
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