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Tags bigfoot , bill munns , Patterson-Gimlin film

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Old 11th June 2010, 06:31 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by marlborough View Post
Bill Munns has become quite the manure salesman at BFF's. They just love him over there and all his biased and extremely subjective opinions. Despite having no qualifications whatsoever with everything he's doing, the folks just can't get enough.
It seems to me that on the BFF there are less than 6 people who strongly support Bill. Two of them are insane and one is a mod. The rest of the posters seem to have figured him out.
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Old 11th June 2010, 06:39 AM   #42
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Quote:
I just don't get
How anyone could believe in Bigfoot
Why they would want to
I hope most are just in it for the camping trips, and believe in bigfoot hunting being fun.
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Old 11th June 2010, 06:49 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Toke View Post
I hope most are just in it for the camping trips, and believe in bigfoot hunting being fun.
You mean like people who believe in Witchcraft just for the nude sessions?

Okay I guess that could work.
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Old 11th June 2010, 07:38 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by sts75 View Post
Your right the thread is nothing more than a vessel for personal scorn towards this bill chap.
easily recognisable and a perfect example of all that now stinks about this fora, since it has become predominently kids posting, hence my scorn.
If you think this thread is a vessel of scorn, check out this one:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=133244

Ad hom is not always fallacious by default, and scorn is sometimes well earned ..

So, what are your thoughts about this Bigfoot thing, and the PGF in particular ?
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Old 11th June 2010, 07:39 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Ashles View Post
You mean like people who believe in Witchcraft just for the nude sessions?

Okay I guess that could work.
Yes, exactly.

(Well, a bunch of guys around a camp fire drinking beer and telling tall stories, is not quite the same, or as much fun as I imagine sex magic could be.)
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Old 11th June 2010, 08:00 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post

Ad hom is not always fallacious by default, and scorn is sometimes well earned ..
Out of interest, when is Ad Hom as a logical argument not fallacious?

I'm just curious.

I thought the illustration (in someone's sig) went:

Ad Hom: Your argument is wrong because you are ugly
Not an Ad Hom: You argument is wrong and you are ugly

(Not that I'm disagreeing that scorn isn't often well earned. And fun sometimes.)
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Old 11th June 2010, 08:11 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Ashles View Post
Out of interest, when is Ad Hom as a logical argument not fallacious?

I'm just curious.

I thought the illustration (in someone's sig) went:

Ad Hom: Your argument is wrong because you are ugly
Not an Ad Hom: You argument is wrong and you are ugly

(Not that I'm disagreeing that scorn isn't often well earned. And fun sometimes.)
Ad Hom: Your argument is wrong because you are ugly

When youn are trying to argue that you are beautiful.

just sayin'.
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Old 11th June 2010, 09:06 AM   #48
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Argument: I can have any woman I want.

Ad Hom argument: No you can't, because you are ugly .

There are probably not a lot of logical ad hom arguments, but they are there..


( I see Aepervius helped while I was composing.. )
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Old 11th June 2010, 11:15 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by sts75 View Post
Quote marlboruogh opening post.

And to think, I wasted 4 years of my life earning an engineering degree.

What does whining about feeling he has wasted 4 years on an engineering degree have to do with a man in a monkey suit.
Infact what does an engineering degree have to do with a man in a monkey suit.
And you're whining about my post as a result of failing to read its entirety.

Originally Posted by marlborough View Post
You can now add self proclaimed "probability statistician" to his arsenal of alleged professional endeavors that already included engineer, forensic expert and anthropologist.
Bill is a self proclaimed expert on a number of disciplines, including an engineer, despite never attending university for this subject. Hence, if I utilized the Munns' method of academic achievements, I could have saved 4 years of engineering studies.

How it's relevant to a guy in an ape suit, I haven't the slightest clue. But Bill seems to think so. He seems to think the more fictitious credentials he possesses, the better.
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Old 12th June 2010, 10:48 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by marlborough View Post
...He seems to think the more fictitious credentials he possesses, the better.


BTW, the degree joke wasn't in vain, most got it.
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Old 12th June 2010, 11:01 PM   #51
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Odds of a hoax less than 1 in 20000? That's hilarious.

How about the fact that the clowns who filmed it were on a Bigfoot hunting mission? That's not suspicious or anything. I'd love to know what the odds of finding a Bigfoot on a Bigfoot hunting trip are. And on the first day no less.
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Old 13th June 2010, 08:01 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by bozman View Post
Odds of a hoax less than 1 in 20000? That's hilarious.

How about the fact that the clowns who filmed it were on a Bigfoot hunting mission? That's not suspicious or anything. I'd love to know what the odds of finding a Bigfoot on a Bigfoot hunting trip are. And on the first day no less.
I think they claimed they were out there for a week before they got the alleged footage, but I may be mistaken. I know it was not shot on the first day. Educate yourself on the topic.
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Old 20th June 2010, 11:07 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Toke View Post
I hope most are just in it for the camping trips, and believe in bigfoot hunting being fun.
well, 600 of em took a weekend to show their devotion in Ohio, and another big bunch was in Oregon this weekend.
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Old 21st June 2010, 02:08 PM   #54
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Bill Munns Calculates Probability of Patterson/Gimlin film Being faked at 0.00005

I presume this is from a scientific article published in a peer-review journal, with no significant objections he couldn't adequately address during that process.
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Old 21st June 2010, 08:57 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Bill Munns Calculates Probability of Patterson/Gimlin film Being faked at 0.00005

I presume this is from a scientific article published in a peer-review journal, with no significant objections he couldn't adequately address during that process.
Of course. It's from the BFF (Bill's Friendly Forum).
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Old 21st June 2010, 11:03 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Ashles View Post
You mean like people who believe in Witchcraft just for the nude sessions?

Okay I guess that could work.
Wait a minute. Witchcraft has nude sessions?

I might suddenly be developing an interest in Wicca...
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Old 29th June 2010, 02:19 PM   #57
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I find it highly probable that Bill Munns never took a course in probability.
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Old 29th June 2010, 04:50 PM   #58
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Probably not.


Sorry couldn't resist.
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Old 30th June 2010, 07:31 PM   #59
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Seems the thread started out as comedy and 58 posts later that theme is still strong.

Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
I find it highly probable that Bill Munns never took a course in probability.
Oh but he did. Between his daily meetings with Spielberg and Cameron, he read Pat Chris Simmons' new #1 power-read bestseller "Probabilities and You: Zero to Bigfoot In One Minute".
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Old 30th June 2010, 08:37 PM   #60
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Word of advice. Never listed to hysterical cows who invent fictious facts.

I never met Cameron. Haven't talked to Speilberg in 25 years.

My source for my understanding of probability is:

The Life Science Library was a popular series of hardbound books published by Time-Life between 1963 and 1967. Each of the 26 volumes explored a major topic of the natural sciences. They were intended for, and written at a level appropriate to, an educated lay readership. In each volume, the text of each of eight chapters was followed by a "Picture Essay" lavishly illustrating the subject of the preceding chapter. The Consulting Editors of the series were microbiologist Rene Dubos, physicist Henry Margenau, and physicist and novelist C.P. Snow.

Each volume was written by a primary author (or authors) "and the Editors of LIFE". The 26 volumes in the series were:

Matter (1963), by Ralph E. Lapp
Energy (1963), by Mitchell Wilson
Mathematics (1963), by David Bergamini


great book, with a fine section on the elements of probability, and a great discussion of topology too.

As for the "self-proclaimed probability statitician" that's pure BS invented by the feeble minds here because I don't know much about statistics and the work of statistiticians and certainly never "proclaimed" any expertise in such. Guess the feeble minds don't know the difference between probability as a mathematical specialty and statistical analysis, which is a seperate endeavor entirely, and only overlaps with probability in actuarial predictions based on the statistical databases.

But delusional morons do like to let their own fantesies take over their minds, and they invent BS about other people. This thread is a showcase for it.

Seriously, people, why don't you get a life, instead of pouring through mine. I'm not that interesting, that you have to go to all the effort to invent lies about me. Why don't you give that effort to the truth of your own life and accomplishments. it would be time far better spent.

Bill
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Old 30th June 2010, 08:48 PM   #61
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Come on Bill, why don't you tell them how you really feel ?



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Old 30th June 2010, 09:31 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Bill Munns View Post

hysterical cows

fictious facts

pure BS

feeble minds

delusional morons

fantesies take over their minds

BS

get a life

Bill

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Old 30th June 2010, 11:11 PM   #63
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Speaking only for myself, "I like bashing. Cause bashing can make you <record screech>" No wait.
"Bash and bash until it turns to ash, and when it gets up, bash that ash 'til it turns to sh..."
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Old 1st July 2010, 07:34 AM   #64
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Quote:
hysterical cows
Cows are easy prey for a meat eater like sasquatch...
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Old 1st July 2010, 02:51 PM   #65
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I skimmed the thread and didn't notice anyone pointing out the basic flaw of the title. This is not a random situation to which probability applies. You can't point at a video of anything and assign it a probability with any real meaning. The video either was real or faked, but it is in no way random.
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Old 1st July 2010, 02:55 PM   #66
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Bill's target audience couldn't possibly grasp that .. He's banking on it ...( .... Really )
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Old 1st July 2010, 07:33 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Aoidoi View Post
I skimmed the thread and didn't notice anyone pointing out the basic flaw of the title. This is not a random situation to which probability applies. You can't point at a video of anything and assign it a probability with any real meaning. The video either was real or faked, but it is in no way random.
Yup. That's why "calculates probability" is not nearly as accurate as "pulls probability out of thin air".
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Old 2nd July 2010, 05:06 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Parcher, if you drew that yourself, then I am nominating it.


A few reviews of Mathematics by David Bergamini from www.librarything.com

Quote:
A favorite from early childhood; for instance, the chapter on Topology at the end with an illustration of the fixed point theorem. Perhaps the photo of Sammy Eilenberg, mathematician and collector / dealer in Indian Art, lying on his couch, was a subliminal influence too.
MMcM | Sep 24, 2006 |
Quote:
Liked this book when young (before 1974) ( )
michtelassn | Feb 25, 2006 |
Quote:
I cut my teeth on science-for-the-layman with the Time-Life series. Too bad it's not updated once a decade or so. Still a fun read!
kencf0618 | Sep 26, 2005 |
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Old 2nd July 2010, 06:12 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Parcher, if you drew that yourself, then I am nominating it.


[/url]
It reminds me of the Quiznos 'thing' from a few years ago.
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Old 2nd July 2010, 03:18 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by icerat View Post
Interesting that the number of new bigfoot/alien videos is inversely proportional to the number of video cameras in circulation
Yep. Noticed that years ago when tornado videos began to become a lot more common. Tornados, ships sinking, car crashes, plane crashes, other gruesome stuff. Lots more.

Ghosts, UFOs*, Bigfeet, Nessies, Chupachups**, magic, telekinesis***, and so on, still nothing.








* Although films increased, they all turned into IFOs.


** Though why people doubt their existance, I'll never know.


*** See *
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Old 2nd July 2010, 09:09 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
real film, real creature, real monkey suit, real human
Really???
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Old 3rd July 2010, 06:35 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
well, 600 of em took a weekend to show their devotion in Ohio, and another big bunch was in Oregon this weekend.

Yeah, it was a great Conference. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to all the Bigfoot sighting accounts, hearing them directly from the 'eyewitnesses', themselves...in such a friendly, and personable setting.

WOO-HOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
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Old 3rd July 2010, 11:27 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by MrBooglemaumau View Post
Really???
Yes.
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Old 5th July 2010, 01:47 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Parcher, if you drew that yourself, then I am nominating it.

I didn't.

ETA: I guess it's called Fuuuu.
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Old 5th July 2010, 08:48 PM   #75
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Bill,
you lost me at :
Originally Posted by Bill Munns View Post
Word of advice. Never listed to hysterical cows who invent fictious facts.
.....

Bill
what does that even mean? I don't guess it matters, but i'd like to use it as my sig, if you don't mind. I'll give you credit.
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Old 26th September 2011, 09:01 AM   #76
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Bill Munns is now doing video reports on YouTube. The first one shows a 3-D animation of the Patty filming.

I'm not sure what the exposed face makeup thing is supposed to represent in the context of the PGF.
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Old 26th September 2011, 10:03 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Bill Munns is now doing video reports on YouTube. The first one shows a 3-D animation of the Patty filming.

I'm not sure what the exposed face makeup thing is supposed to represent in the context of the PGF.
Does he show how he made up came up with his 0.00005 figure?
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Old 26th September 2011, 10:09 AM   #78
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I think he is showing that to contrast with the living real beast. He put the most obvious hollywood type mask on the 1st frame, and the patty face on the second.

I also get from this, HOW CAN ANYONE POSSIBLY THINK THAT THAT CONTRAPTION IS PART OF PATTY, therefore patty is a real beast.
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Old 27th September 2011, 10:41 AM   #79
Deacondark
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Bill Munns is now doing video reports on YouTube. The first one shows a 3-D animation of the Patty filming.

I'm not sure what the exposed face makeup thing is supposed to represent in the context of the PGF.

At the beginning of his video he shows several examples of his work. Any one of which is infinitely more impressive than Patty. So why is it that he keeps on insisting Patty is real?
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Old 27th September 2011, 12:26 PM   #80
AlaskaBushPilot
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Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
Rationality, absence of faith, demand for evidence - and an air of superiority. They're not mutualy exclusive, after all.

The substance of that 'inane' comment was essentially that a collection of intelligent, articulate, rational people are sitting around on the interwebs discussing bigfoot. Bigfoot doesn't exist - you know that, I know that, I expect most of the people making money off the back of it know that too. Yet here's another thread on it. God probably doesn't exist, space aliens may well exist (though not in the way abductees and corncirclers like to believe) - I probably wouldn't have made the same 'inane' comment in a thread on either. But bigfoot??

The people who believe, meanwhile, won't be here...or if they were, we already know they're not rational, they don't demand evidence and they depend on faith. So the thread can't be for them - nor will it have any impact on the con artists who feed on their gullibility. So what is the purpose of bigfoot threads here? Maybe there's a clue in another one: Speculation
That was an impressive effort at camoflaging an ad Hominem. What do they call it when someone is doing the same thing they criticize in others?

You are also wrong in your assertion no believers come here. Not only do we see Sweaty and Odin as long-timers, but Bill Munns even. You have BFBM who has made some good contributions nevertheless on literature and maps, the site area etc. Then of course there's the Blevinator himself. He made a bigfoot suit but still believes in bigfoot as the reincarnation of some biblical people.

You only need one proof by counterexample. I just gave five. So your whole thesis has been decimated and we are left with an empty ad-hom.

Originally Posted by sts75 View Post
Your right the thread is nothing more than a vessel for personal scorn towards this bill chap.
easily recognisable and a perfect example of all that now stinks about this fora, since it has become predominently kids posting, hence my scorn.
I don't see the Bigfoot posters here as kids. Not that it would matter. You have some kind of hatred of kids, and it manifests itself here? Odd.

Hoaxers for profit commit theft by fraud. Patterson did. He took money from people for showing a film he hoaxed, while insisting it was real.

Munns is a fascinating study, similar to Dr. Merldumb, where they erect this massive wall of pretentious pseudo-science as a smoke-screen for an underlying fraud for money. This kind of con-game evinces a behavior pattern proving they don't believe the hoax themselves, just like Roger Patterson.

For one thing, you have to control the debate. Overwhelm with red herrings, not allow cross-examination, while ignoring elephants in the room.

In Bill Munns' massive tome, he spends not one word on how splicing is concealed by cutting between frames instead of through them. He lies by showing a repair while pretending it to be a splice. You don't purposefully splice through a frame. You splice between them.

Bill Munns has not acknowledged positively that the PGF can be edited by splicing between frames, and he would not be able to detect this unless he had the original himself. This was a massive reel of film for which we have only seconds that remain - Duh! It was edited! So Bill Munns has to make his own definition up for what means by "edited".


I need a formula here that ends up with 1/20,000 as the answer. Does he actually do that?

Last edited by AlaskaBushPilot; 27th September 2011 at 12:30 PM.
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