WTF has happened to 'skepticism' - Page 7

Paul2 · 4th July 2019, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by tanabear

This is quite a convoluted explanation. There are two things here. One, there was a conspiracy, if you wish to use that term, by high-ranking officials in the US government and elsewhere to sell the Iraq war to the American people. Two, what they were selling was a conspiracy theory about Iraq, WMD and links to Al-Qaeda. It is this conspiracy theory that I am referring too. This conspiracy did not exist. Saddam Hussein was not in league with Osama bin Laden to transfer WMD which could lead to mushroom clouds over American cities.

Sure.

Cosmic Yak · 5th July 2019, 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by tanabear

What exactly is a weak conspiracy theory? Is this a new Skeptic term? It was not only the lies about WMD, but it also included falsehoods about Saddam's links to Osama and Al-Qaeda. This false narrative was widely believed by the American people. This would seem like a strong conspiracy theory to me. Plus, it led to the complete decimation of an entire country. This seems a lot more consequential than someone wondering if the moon landings were faked.

Is this really what they had in mind?

"The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door -- this intense grid -- and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting".
Frank DeMartini, WTC Project Manager

A white paper in the files of the Port Authority state,

"The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707—DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact."

So "fully loaded", "large jetliner" and "600mph" implies small planes, not fully loaded and traveling slow. Skeptics are best at semantics.

Of course, to say that the buildings "collapsed" is really a misnomer. The official explanation is "crush-down crush-up."

So you are admitting that the highly loaded term "conspiracy theory" is meant only to apply to people questioning official narratives. Thus a "conspiracy theory" is not necessarily a false belief, it is just a contrary one to the powers that be.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=70154

Roboramma · 6th July 2019, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

If something can't be solved with skepticism, don't get upset when people use skepticism on it at the skepticism forum. This is a forum devoted to the means, and not about achieving some end.

If someone on the hammer forum goes to the louve and starts smashing things with a hammer, I think other people on the hammer forum can reasonably ask him why he's doing that. Saying "hammers are good at smashing stuff" isn't a good reason, no matter where he happens to be.

Anyway, this exchange between us began with you saying:

Quote:

Is skepticism meant to have a purpose? And if you desire to solve problems, you should be on a problem solving forum and not a skepticism forum.

And yes, my claim is that every act of skepticism has a purpose. Examining that purpose can offer insight.

BobTheCoward · 6th July 2019, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Roboramma

If someone on the hammer forum goes to the louve and starts smashing things with a hammer,

Then it is good that we are not talking about hammering outside of the hammer forum.

TragicMonkey · 6th July 2019, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

Then it is good that we are not talking about hammering outside of the hammer forum.

Can it be? Is the whole perplexingly frustrating body of your work meant solely with the grand purpose of leading here, to this, to the declaration that it has now come upon us: it's Hammer Time? And that we can't touch this?

Roboramma · 6th July 2019, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

Then it is good that we are not talking about hammering outside of the hammer forum.

I have no idea what this comment is supposed to mean.

BobTheCoward · 6th July 2019, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Roboramma

I have no idea what this comment is supposed to mean.

You talked about someone smashing things at the Louvre. No one mentioned taking hammering outside the hammer forum. So any point based on the Louvre is moot.

JoeMorgue · 6th July 2019, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

You talked about someone smashing things at the Louvre. No one mentioned taking hammering outside the hammer forum. So any point based on the Louvre is moot.

There is no goddamn "hammer forum" in the real world. There's no part of life where going "I'm just not going to look into whether or not this is true" is a good thing.

I await whatever intentionally dense nonsense your character is gonna vomit out.

BobTheCoward · 6th July 2019, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

There is no goddamn "hammer forum" in the real world. There's no part of life where going "I'm just not going to look into whether or not this is true" is a good thing.

I await whatever intentionally dense nonsense your character is gonna vomit out.

This forum is a hammer forum

JoeMorgue · 6th July 2019, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

This forum is a hammer forum

Yes because there's still a lot of people who have to be told "Stop believing in made up crap."

Roboramma · 7th July 2019, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

You talked about someone smashing things at the Louvre. No one mentioned taking hammering outside the hammer forum. So any point based on the Louvre is moot.

I thought the hammer forum, like this one, was meant to be populated by real people. Persumably those real people are talking about hammers. So one of them goes to the Louve and starts hammering things. Then he comes on the hammer forum and talks about his choice of hammer for that job.

Some people on the hammer forum might say he made a poor choice of hammer because, for instance, a larger one would be more efficient. Someone else might say actually it would be better if he had chosen a nerf hammer because then he'd have done less damage to the art.

You seem to think that the first comment is acceptable but the second is not, and I can't understand how you delineate hammer discussions in order to make that distinction.

Furthermore, even if you can explain some coherent way to limit the discussion in that way, I don't think it's worthwhile to do so with respect to skepticism.

BobTheCoward · 7th July 2019, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by Roboramma

I thought the hammer forum, like this one, was meant to be populated by real people. Persumably those real people are talking about hammers. So one of them goes to the Louve and starts hammering things. Then he comes on the hammer forum and talks about his choice of hammer for that job.

Some people on the hammer forum might say he made a poor choice of hammer because, for instance, a larger one would be more efficient. Someone else might say actually it would be better if he had chosen a nerf hammer because then he'd have done less damage to the art.

You seem to think that the first comment is acceptable but the second is not, and I can't understand how you delineate hammer discussions in order to make that distinction.

Furthermore, even if you can explain some coherent way to limit the discussion in that way, I don't think it's worthwhile to do so with respect to skepticism.

I'm fine with both discussions. The limits of hammer's is an acceptable subject on the hammer forum. I object to non hammer proposals to fix the paintings.

theprestige · 7th July 2019, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Yes because there's still a lot of people who have to be told "Stop believing in made up crap."

No there aren't, and even if there were, this forum isn't the place for it.

You're making up crap, and then believing in the crap you make up. I'd tell you to stop, but what would be the point?

JoeMorgue · 7th July 2019, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

No there aren't, and even if there were, this forum isn't the place for it.

You're making up crap, and then believing in the crap you make up. I'd tell you to stop, but what would be the point?

Cool story bro.

Butter! · 7th July 2019, 08:00 AM

I honestly have no idea what anyone is talking about anymore.

I'm skeptical that my brain is still working correctly.

Roboramma · 7th July 2019, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I'm fine with both discussions. The limits of hammer's is an acceptable subject on the hammer forum. I object to non hammer proposals to fix the paintings.

So you are okay with discussions about the purpose of hammers as it applies to their application.

So it seems your answer to this question:

Quote:

Is skepticism meant to have a purpose?

Is yes.

And

Quote:

And if you desire to solve problems, you should be on a problem solving forum and not a skepticism forum.

This is clearly nonsense.

BobTheCoward · 7th July 2019, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Roboramma

So you are okay with discussions about the purpose of hammers as it applies to their application.

So it seems your answer to this question:

Is yes.

And

This is clearly nonsense.

Just because a discussion of purpose occurs does not mean it has a purpose.

And I don't understand the nonsense thing.

Darat · 8th July 2019, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by isissxn

I honestly have no idea what anyone is talking about anymore.

I'm skeptical that my brain is still working correctly.

Thats because you like me are hammered!

Darat · 8th July 2019, 03:21 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

Just because a discussion of purpose occurs does not mean it has a purpose.

And I don't understand the nonsense thing.

Oh such a feeder line.....

Hevneren · 8th July 2019, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by isissxn

I honestly have no idea what anyone is talking about anymore.

I'm skeptical that my brain is still working correctly.

I'm afraid they're actually demonstrating what's happened to 'skepticism'

Major Major · 8th July 2019, 04:26 AM

Originally Posted by ArchSas

You underestimate the CTers. I've run into several Titanic-related conspiracy theories in the past. IIRC, the main ones are: 1) That the Titanic never actually sank; White Star was committing insurance fraud by sinking the Olympic, which had already been damaged, and 2) That J.P. Morgan intentionally had the ship sunk to kill business rivals; I think that one is actually part of the Qanon CT now, so it might be somewhat popular now, considering how that crapshow has grown.

I think the latest popular one was that the Bankers had the ship sunk to kill several opponents of a Federal Reserve Bank.

Safe-Keeper · 8th July 2019, 05:12 AM

Have you also noticed that if you compare images of the Titanic sinking from hitting an ice berg, and of ships sinking from being torpedoed, some of them sink in exactly the same way? Obvious proof the Titanic loss was a controlled sinking!!11

Belz... · 8th July 2019, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by tanabear

What exactly is a weak conspiracy theory? Is this a new Skeptic term?

What is a nice new house? Is this a new realestate term?

Roboramma · 8th July 2019, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

Just because a discussion of purpose occurs does not mean it has a purpose.

Maybe, but in general human actions have a motivation. If skepticism is good it's good because it's useful to achieving some ends, so when theprestige says that your skepticism creates rather than solves problems that seems like a valid criticism to me, and I suspect most people.

You may consider skepticism to be an ends in itself, but if so I'm curious what ever lead you to that viewpoint.

Butter! · 8th July 2019, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

What is a nice new house? Is this a new realestate term?

Dave Rogers · 8th July 2019, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

There is no goddamn "hammer forum" in the real world.

Ahem.

Dave

BobTheCoward · 8th July 2019, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Roboramma

Maybe, but in general human actions have a motivation. If skepticism is good it's good because it's useful to achieving some ends, so when theprestige says that your skepticism creates rather than solves problems that seems like a valid criticism to me, and I suspect most people.

You may consider skepticism to be an ends in itself, but if so I'm curious what ever lead you to that viewpoint.

I'm not interested in solving problems with skepticism. And until this is international solve-problems forums, I'm in the right place.

ahhell · 8th July 2019, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

Ahem.

Dave

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

There is no goddamn "hammer forum" in the real world. There's no part of life where going "I'm just not going to look into whether or not this is true" is a good thing.

I await whatever intentionally dense nonsense your character is gonna vomit out.

Haven't you learned yet, never say never on the internet because somewhere sometime, if it can exist on the internet there are probably more than one.

Butter! · 8th July 2019, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I'm not interested in solving problems with skepticism. And until this is international solve-problems forums, I'm in the right place.

Are you like this in real life?

Tony99 · 8th July 2019, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by isissxn

Are you like this in real life?

And a real hoot at parties...if French postmodern philosophy is your idea of a fun party.

I'll be wearing my "Chicks dig poststructuralist" t-shirt.

The Common Potato · 8th July 2019, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

It's an English thing implying someone is of a lower class "commoner" as distinct from aristocratic I suppose. It has become to mean someone of low social status, education, and intelligence, from my understanding.

I recall one Mrs Slowcome (not sure of spelling here), in the series "Are you being served", used to refer to folk as common or dead common, in a derisive manner.

Tally Ho! chaps. Ex-public school bod, here. I come from Lancashire originally, and I suppose I used to have quite a pronounced accent, when I first went to school. A bloke in my year (Paul Young's record producer, these days) decided that all Northerners ate "n'owt but chip butties" - Chip Butty stuck as a nickname.

I sort of accidentally came across The Common Potato as a username a few years ago. As well as sounding a bit like "The Commentator", it has that personal meaning.

You're right, of course, about "common". Doesn't Hyacinth Bucket deserve a mention? Of course, it's quite permissible to call someone common who really isn't. It's an English banter thing.

Thor 2 · 8th July 2019, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by The Common Potato

Tally Ho! chaps. Ex-public school bod, here. I come from Lancashire originally, and I suppose I used to have quite a pronounced accent, when I first went to school. A bloke in my year (Paul Young's record producer, these days) decided that all Northerners ate "n'owt but chip butties" - Chip Butty stuck as a nickname.

I sort of accidentally came across The Common Potato as a username a few years ago. As well as sounding a bit like "The Commentator", it has that personal meaning.

You're right, of course, about "common". Doesn't Hyacinth Bucket deserve a mention? Of course, it's quite permissible to call someone common who really isn't. It's an English banter thing.

Well Tally Ho back then!

Phew! So you're not going to flay me alive for looking down on common folk.

Butter! · 8th July 2019, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Tony99

And a real hoot at parties...if French postmodern philosophy is your idea of a fun party.

I'll be wearing my "Chicks dig poststructuralist" t-shirt.

"For a good time, you kant beat deconstructionism!"

Hevneren · 8th July 2019, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I'm not interested in solving problems with skepticism. And until this is international solve-problems forums, I'm in the right place.

Sorry, but this isn't the 5-years-olds-asking-why forum. Questioning almost everything isn't the same as skepticism.

Venom · 8th July 2019, 05:08 PM

Now drink this hemlock, Bob.

BobTheCoward · 8th July 2019, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Hevneren

Sorry, but this isn't the 5-years-olds-asking-why forum. Questioning almost everything isn't the same as skepticism.

Good thing I don't question everything, then.

arthwollipot · 8th July 2019, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I'm not interested in solving problems with skepticism. And until this is international solve-problems forums, I'm in the right place.

What are you interested in, then?

Chanakya · 8th July 2019, 07:00 PM

To be fair, Bob's probably not the only one. There are plenty of apparently endless -- and apparently pointless -- argument-fests we see here, which you read in horrified fascination, thinking "WTF!", before shrugging and saying "Different strokes ..."

Heck, I've even caught myself at it. Got sucked into some discussion, then after a while wondering why on earth I care at all.

Of course, we can draw two possible lessons from this thought. The first would be to remain self aware about one's motivations, instead of thoughtlessly burrowing through some rabbit hole just because one's happened to poke one's head inside one. The second is to give up entirely on such self-awareness (or else, to compartmentalize, and to indulge in rabbit-hole-burrowing just for the heck of it).

Clearly Bob favors the latter. But equally clearly, Bob's not the only one to do that, albeit he is the only one to actually admit to it.

Roboramma · 8th July 2019, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I'm not interested in solving problems with skepticism. And until this is international solve-problems forums, I'm in the right place.

What use do you see skepticism as having for you?

I think that's an important question in order to analyse whether or not you are doing it in a way that's tailored to those aims, whatever they may be.

Venom · 8th July 2019, 08:18 PM

A plus, if indeed there is any, is Bob's apparently unemotional approach to every issue, something I've tried to be mindful of.

To get back on topic of the TS, emotional arguments can have some place in skeptical analysis, but it's best to leave them on the back burner, especially for sensitive issues, else you end up with the mess you see in the politics and social issues sections.

4th July 2019, 05:44 PM	#241
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,584	Originally Posted by tanabear This is quite a convoluted explanation. There are two things here. One, there was a conspiracy, if you wish to use that term, by high-ranking officials in the US government and elsewhere to sell the Iraq war to the American people. Two, what they were selling was a conspiracy theory about Iraq, WMD and links to Al-Qaeda. It is this conspiracy theory that I am referring too. This conspiracy did not exist. Saddam Hussein was not in league with Osama bin Laden to transfer WMD which could lead to mushroom clouds over American cities. Sure.
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,584	__________________ It's nice to be nice to the nice. Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell

5th July 2019, 02:17 AM	#242
Cosmic Yak Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand. Posts: 3,889	Originally Posted by tanabear What exactly is a weak conspiracy theory? Is this a new Skeptic term? It was not only the lies about WMD, but it also included falsehoods about Saddam's links to Osama and Al-Qaeda. This false narrative was widely believed by the American people. This would seem like a strong conspiracy theory to me. Plus, it led to the complete decimation of an entire country. This seems a lot more consequential than someone wondering if the moon landings were faked. Is this really what they had in mind? "The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door -- this intense grid -- and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting". Frank DeMartini, WTC Project Manager A white paper in the files of the Port Authority state, "The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707—DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact." So "fully loaded", "large jetliner" and "600mph" implies small planes, not fully loaded and traveling slow. Skeptics are best at semantics. Of course, to say that the buildings "collapsed" is really a misnomer. The official explanation is "crush-down crush-up." So you are admitting that the highly loaded term "conspiracy theory" is meant only to apply to people questioning official narratives. Thus a "conspiracy theory" is not necessarily a false belief, it is just a contrary one to the powers that be. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=70154
	__________________ Fortuna Faveat Fatuis

6th July 2019, 05:48 AM	#243
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 14,237	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward If something can't be solved with skepticism, don't get upset when people use skepticism on it at the skepticism forum. This is a forum devoted to the means, and not about achieving some end. If someone on the hammer forum goes to the louve and starts smashing things with a hammer, I think other people on the hammer forum can reasonably ask him why he's doing that. Saying "hammers are good at smashing stuff" isn't a good reason, no matter where he happens to be. Anyway, this exchange between us began with you saying: Quote: Is skepticism meant to have a purpose? And if you desire to solve problems, you should be on a problem solving forum and not a skepticism forum. And yes, my claim is that every act of skepticism has a purpose. Examining that purpose can offer insight.
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

6th July 2019, 08:29 AM	#245
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,425	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward Then it is good that we are not talking about hammering outside of the hammer forum. Can it be? Is the whole perplexingly frustrating body of your work meant solely with the grand purpose of leading here, to this, to the declaration that it has now come upon us: it's Hammer Time? And that we can't touch this?
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

6th July 2019, 06:13 PM	#246
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 14,237	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward Then it is good that we are not talking about hammering outside of the hammer forum. I have no idea what this comment is supposed to mean.
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

6th July 2019, 06:36 AM	#244
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,204	Originally Posted by Roboramma If someone on the hammer forum goes to the louve and starts smashing things with a hammer, Then it is good that we are not talking about hammering outside of the hammer forum.

6th July 2019, 06:15 PM	#247
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,204	Originally Posted by Roboramma I have no idea what this comment is supposed to mean. You talked about someone smashing things at the Louvre. No one mentioned taking hammering outside the hammer forum. So any point based on the Louvre is moot.

6th July 2019, 06:49 PM	#248
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,569	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward You talked about someone smashing things at the Louvre. No one mentioned taking hammering outside the hammer forum. So any point based on the Louvre is moot. There is no goddamn "hammer forum" in the real world. There's no part of life where going "I'm just not going to look into whether or not this is true" is a good thing. I await whatever intentionally dense nonsense your character is gonna vomit out.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

6th July 2019, 06:51 PM	#249
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,204	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue There is no goddamn "hammer forum" in the real world. There's no part of life where going "I'm just not going to look into whether or not this is true" is a good thing. I await whatever intentionally dense nonsense your character is gonna vomit out. This forum is a hammer forum

6th July 2019, 06:53 PM	#250
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,569	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward This forum is a hammer forum Yes because there's still a lot of people who have to be told "Stop believing in made up crap."
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

7th July 2019, 02:00 AM	#251
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 14,237	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward You talked about someone smashing things at the Louvre. No one mentioned taking hammering outside the hammer forum. So any point based on the Louvre is moot. I thought the hammer forum, like this one, was meant to be populated by real people. Persumably those real people are talking about hammers. So one of them goes to the Louve and starts hammering things. Then he comes on the hammer forum and talks about his choice of hammer for that job. Some people on the hammer forum might say he made a poor choice of hammer because, for instance, a larger one would be more efficient. Someone else might say actually it would be better if he had chosen a nerf hammer because then he'd have done less damage to the art. You seem to think that the first comment is acceptable but the second is not, and I can't understand how you delineate hammer discussions in order to make that distinction. Furthermore, even if you can explain some coherent way to limit the discussion in that way, I don't think it's worthwhile to do so with respect to skepticism.
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

7th July 2019, 04:46 AM	#252
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,204	Originally Posted by Roboramma I thought the hammer forum, like this one, was meant to be populated by real people. Persumably those real people are talking about hammers. So one of them goes to the Louve and starts hammering things. Then he comes on the hammer forum and talks about his choice of hammer for that job. Some people on the hammer forum might say he made a poor choice of hammer because, for instance, a larger one would be more efficient. Someone else might say actually it would be better if he had chosen a nerf hammer because then he'd have done less damage to the art. You seem to think that the first comment is acceptable but the second is not, and I can't understand how you delineate hammer discussions in order to make that distinction. Furthermore, even if you can explain some coherent way to limit the discussion in that way, I don't think it's worthwhile to do so with respect to skepticism. I'm fine with both discussions. The limits of hammer's is an acceptable subject on the hammer forum. I object to non hammer proposals to fix the paintings.

7th July 2019, 05:30 AM	#253
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,513	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Yes because there's still a lot of people who have to be told "Stop believing in made up crap." No there aren't, and even if there were, this forum isn't the place for it. You're making up crap, and then believing in the crap you make up. I'd tell you to stop, but what would be the point?

7th July 2019, 06:51 AM	#254
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,569	Originally Posted by theprestige No there aren't, and even if there were, this forum isn't the place for it. You're making up crap, and then believing in the crap you make up. I'd tell you to stop, but what would be the point? Cool story bro.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

7th July 2019, 08:00 AM	#255
Butter! Rough Around the Edges Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Deep Storage Posts: 7,250	I honestly have no idea what anyone is talking about anymore. I'm skeptical that my brain is still working correctly.

7th July 2019, 05:37 PM	#256
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 14,237	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I'm fine with both discussions. The limits of hammer's is an acceptable subject on the hammer forum. I object to non hammer proposals to fix the paintings. So you are okay with discussions about the purpose of hammers as it applies to their application. So it seems your answer to this question: Quote: Is skepticism meant to have a purpose? Is yes. And Quote: And if you desire to solve problems, you should be on a problem solving forum and not a skepticism forum. This is clearly nonsense.
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

7th July 2019, 05:42 PM	#257
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,204	Originally Posted by Roboramma So you are okay with discussions about the purpose of hammers as it applies to their application. So it seems your answer to this question: Is yes. And This is clearly nonsense. Just because a discussion of purpose occurs does not mean it has a purpose. And I don't understand the nonsense thing.

8th July 2019, 03:20 AM	#258
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,841	Originally Posted by isissxn I honestly have no idea what anyone is talking about anymore. I'm skeptical that my brain is still working correctly. Thats because you like me are hammered!
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

8th July 2019, 03:21 AM	#259
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,841	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward Just because a discussion of purpose occurs does not mean it has a purpose. And I don't understand the nonsense thing. Oh such a feeder line.....
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

8th July 2019, 04:18 AM	#260
Hevneren Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 289	Originally Posted by isissxn I honestly have no idea what anyone is talking about anymore. I'm skeptical that my brain is still working correctly. I'm afraid they're actually demonstrating what's happened to 'skepticism'
Hevneren Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 289

8th July 2019, 04:26 AM	#261
Major Major Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 371	Originally Posted by ArchSas You underestimate the CTers. I've run into several Titanic-related conspiracy theories in the past. IIRC, the main ones are: 1) That the Titanic never actually sank; White Star was committing insurance fraud by sinking the Olympic, which had already been damaged, and 2) That J.P. Morgan intentionally had the ship sunk to kill business rivals; I think that one is actually part of the Qanon CT now, so it might be somewhat popular now, considering how that crapshow has grown. I think the latest popular one was that the Bankers had the ship sunk to kill several opponents of a Federal Reserve Bank.

8th July 2019, 05:12 AM	#262
Safe-Keeper Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norway Posts: 10,389	Have you also noticed that if you compare images of the Titanic sinking from hitting an ice berg, and of ships sinking from being torpedoed, some of them sink in exactly the same way? Obvious proof the Titanic loss was a controlled sinking!!11
	__________________ "He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs "If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig

8th July 2019, 05:21 AM	#263
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 91,292	Originally Posted by tanabear What exactly is a weak conspiracy theory? Is this a new Skeptic term? What is a nice new house? Is this a new realestate term?
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

8th July 2019, 06:10 AM	#264
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 14,237	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward Just because a discussion of purpose occurs does not mean it has a purpose. Maybe, but in general human actions have a motivation. If skepticism is good it's good because it's useful to achieving some ends, so when theprestige says that your skepticism creates rather than solves problems that seems like a valid criticism to me, and I suspect most people. You may consider skepticism to be an ends in itself, but if so I'm curious what ever lead you to that viewpoint.
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

8th July 2019, 07:46 AM	#265
Butter! Rough Around the Edges Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Deep Storage Posts: 7,250	Originally Posted by Belz... What is a nice new house? Is this a new realestate term?

8th July 2019, 07:50 AM	#266
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD Posts: 32,361	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue There is no goddamn "hammer forum" in the real world. Ahem. Dave
	__________________ There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021

8th July 2019, 08:25 AM	#267
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,204	Originally Posted by Roboramma Maybe, but in general human actions have a motivation. If skepticism is good it's good because it's useful to achieving some ends, so when theprestige says that your skepticism creates rather than solves problems that seems like a valid criticism to me, and I suspect most people. You may consider skepticism to be an ends in itself, but if so I'm curious what ever lead you to that viewpoint. I'm not interested in solving problems with skepticism. And until this is international solve-problems forums, I'm in the right place.

8th July 2019, 08:29 AM	#268
ahhell Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 3,402	Originally Posted by Dave Rogers Ahem. Dave Originally Posted by JoeMorgue There is no goddamn "hammer forum" in the real world. There's no part of life where going "I'm just not going to look into whether or not this is true" is a good thing. I await whatever intentionally dense nonsense your character is gonna vomit out. Haven't you learned yet, never say never on the internet because somewhere sometime, if it can exist on the internet there are probably more than one.
ahhell Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 3,402

8th July 2019, 08:32 AM	#269
Butter! Rough Around the Edges Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Deep Storage Posts: 7,250	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I'm not interested in solving problems with skepticism. And until this is international solve-problems forums, I'm in the right place. Are you like this in real life?

8th July 2019, 10:31 AM	#270
Tony99 Muse Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Austin Posts: 869	Originally Posted by isissxn Are you like this in real life? And a real hoot at parties...if French postmodern philosophy is your idea of a fun party. I'll be wearing my "Chicks dig poststructuralist" t-shirt.

8th July 2019, 11:34 AM	#271
The Common Potato Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: The Scunthorpe Problem Posts: 369	Originally Posted by Thor 2 It's an English thing implying someone is of a lower class "commoner" as distinct from aristocratic I suppose. It has become to mean someone of low social status, education, and intelligence, from my understanding. I recall one Mrs Slowcome (not sure of spelling here), in the series "Are you being served", used to refer to folk as common or dead common, in a derisive manner. Tally Ho! chaps. Ex-public school bod, here. I come from Lancashire originally, and I suppose I used to have quite a pronounced accent, when I first went to school. A bloke in my year (Paul Young's record producer, these days) decided that all Northerners ate "n'owt but chip butties" - Chip Butty stuck as a nickname. I sort of accidentally came across The Common Potato as a username a few years ago. As well as sounding a bit like "The Commentator", it has that personal meaning. You're right, of course, about "common". Doesn't Hyacinth Bucket deserve a mention? Of course, it's quite permissible to call someone common who really isn't. It's an English banter thing.
	Last edited by The Common Potato; 8th July 2019 at 11:37 AM.

8th July 2019, 02:16 PM	#272
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,588	Originally Posted by The Common Potato Tally Ho! chaps. Ex-public school bod, here. I come from Lancashire originally, and I suppose I used to have quite a pronounced accent, when I first went to school. A bloke in my year (Paul Young's record producer, these days) decided that all Northerners ate "n'owt but chip butties" - Chip Butty stuck as a nickname. I sort of accidentally came across The Common Potato as a username a few years ago. As well as sounding a bit like "The Commentator", it has that personal meaning. You're right, of course, about "common". Doesn't Hyacinth Bucket deserve a mention? Of course, it's quite permissible to call someone common who really isn't. It's an English banter thing. Well Tally Ho back then! Phew! So you're not going to flay me alive for looking down on common folk.
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

8th July 2019, 02:34 PM	#273
Butter! Rough Around the Edges Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Deep Storage Posts: 7,250	Originally Posted by Tony99 And a real hoot at parties...if French postmodern philosophy is your idea of a fun party. I'll be wearing my "Chicks dig poststructuralist" t-shirt. "For a good time, you kant beat deconstructionism!"

8th July 2019, 05:05 PM	#274
Hevneren Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 289	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I'm not interested in solving problems with skepticism. And until this is international solve-problems forums, I'm in the right place. Sorry, but this isn't the 5-years-olds-asking-why forum. Questioning almost everything isn't the same as skepticism.
Hevneren Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 289

8th July 2019, 05:08 PM	#275
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,888	Now drink this hemlock, Bob.