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Tags 9/11 , 9/11 conspiracy theories , 9/11 truthers , truthers

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Old 4th May 2020, 06:22 PM   #321
Roger Ramjets
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
"The 9/11 attacks changed everything. Suddenly the world’s sole superpower was fully mobilized against Arab and Muslim terrorist movements, especially those connected with the Middle East. Sharon’s close Neocon political allies in America used the unexpected crisis as an opportunity to seize control of America’s foreign policy and national security apparatus..."

Of all the false-flag attacks, 9/11 is the easiest to discern.
Then help me out, because I can't discern it. Where is the evidence that the 9/11 attacks were a false flag operation.
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Old 5th May 2020, 03:46 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Then help me out, because I can't discern it. Where is the evidence that the 9/11 attacks were a false flag operation.
If it was a pre-planned false flag operation, how could it have been unexpected?
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Old 5th May 2020, 06:12 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Then help me out, because I can't discern it. Where is the evidence that the 9/11 attacks were a false flag operation.
There is no evidence and only exist in the minds of CTs.
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Old 5th May 2020, 11:55 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Then help me out, because I can't discern it. Where is the evidence that the 9/11 attacks were a false flag operation.
From what I've been able to gather, it's a long list of supposed incongruities which sound impressive when recited in toto, but collapse (no pun intended) when examined individually by experts. Wishful thinking takes the true believers the rest of the way. Basically the same quality of evidence that exists for the faked moon landing fantasy.
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Old 5th May 2020, 11:58 AM   #325
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My favorite take came from someone on Twitter who said that people who believe in CTs like 911 Truthers do have never had the pleasure of being a Project Manager for a medium or large company.
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Old 5th May 2020, 12:04 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
My favorite take came from someone on Twitter who said that people who believe in CTs like 911 Truthers do have never had the pleasure of being a Project Manager for a medium or large company.
Of course not, for then the CTs would have to think and plan and then supervise the execution of the plan.
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Old 6th May 2020, 12:58 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
From what I've been able to gather, it's a long list of supposed incongruities which sound impressive when recited in toto, but collapse (no pun intended) when examined individually by experts.
It's worth mentioning that most, if not all, of these supposed incongruities are simply made up. There's a dangerous tendency to respond to 9/11 truthers asking questions like "How do you explain the fact that [x] happened on 9/11" with an attempt at explaining why [x] isn't implausible enough to imply a massive conspiracy, when in fact the true, and simpler, answer is almost always "[x] didn't, in fact, happen on 9/11." It's been described as 9/11 conspiracy theories being not just wrong, but fractally wrong; they tend to be wrong when viewed at any level of detail, from overview to minutiae.

Dave
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Old 6th May 2020, 07:33 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
It's worth mentioning that most, if not all, of these supposed incongruities are simply made up. There's a dangerous tendency to respond to 9/11 truthers asking questions like "How do you explain the fact that [x] happened on 9/11" with an attempt at explaining why [x] isn't implausible enough to imply a massive conspiracy, when in fact the true, and simpler, answer is almost always "[x] didn't, in fact, happen on 9/11." It's been described as 9/11 conspiracy theories being not just wrong, but fractally wrong; they tend to be wrong when viewed at any level of detail, from overview to minutiae.

Dave

Seems like a common thread of all CTs, make up stories that fit a CT but none of the stories really happened in that manner.
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Old 6th May 2020, 10:49 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
My favorite take came from someone on Twitter who said that people who believe in CTs like 911 Truthers do have never had the pleasure of being a Project Manager for a medium or large company.

Define "Project Manager"
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Old 6th May 2020, 12:04 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Define "Project Manager"
Originally Posted by bknight View Post
Of course not, for then the CTs would have to think and plan and then supervise the execution of the plan.
Already done that. And that would apply to you as well.
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Old 6th May 2020, 07:10 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
“Ron Unz writes” - any thinking reader would stop right there, and so I did.
Ignorance isn't always bliss.

Steve Sailer has remarked on how it is now fashionable, amongst the denizens of the Left, to be ignorant on many topics. Political correctness is a war on noticing things you aren't suppose to notice. This attitude seems to be quite common with the commenters here.

Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
A Neo-Nazi thinks Jews did 9-11? Shocked, shock I say!
Almost anyone can be a Nazi today. It is just like being a "racist", just tell some truths that Liberals don't like and Boom - Nazi. What is the criteria for being a Nazi today?

Wearing Polos = Nazi
Having blonde hair = Nazi
Being white = Nazi
Being a black conservative woman = Nazi *
Being opposed to our wars in the Middle East = Nazi **
Believing there are only two genders = Nazi ***
Believing in Freedom of Speech = Nazi ***

*See Candace Owens
** See Newsweek on Tucker Carlson
*** See any college campus

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
We have a Nazi-sympathizing 9/11 truther in our midst, which is somewhat peculiar when you consider that the Nazis may have been the first to come up with the idea of flying suicide planes into New York skyscrapers.

https://likoed.nl/2007/09/the-nazi-r...oed-nederland/
Wow, the Nazi Party (NSDAP) has not been around since 1945 but somehow they are responsible for or dreamt up the 9/11 attacks. I believe Hitler was probably reacting to the fire-bombing of Dresden more than he was planning or wanting a 9/11 style attack on America.

But when it comes to suicide attacks with airplanes no one has the Japs beat; not Al-Qaeda, ISIS nor Hezbollah. I believe there were almost 3,000 kamikaze attacks by the Japs on the US Navy in WWII. But we can't talk about them being crazy fanatics anymore because they are a non-white ethnic group; you know the word, stigma.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Then help me out, because I can't discern it. Where is the evidence that the 9/11 attacks were a false flag operation.
Because there are so many moving parts to 9/11 this makes it much easier to discern its false-flag nature compared to a simple bombing. It was really a Sloppy Joe inside job. But we all know the evidence; the demolition of WTC7, the destruction of WTC 1 and 2; and the people celebrating the attacks as it happened, known affectionately as the 'Dancing Israelis'.

Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
My favorite take came from someone on Twitter who said that people who believe in CTs like 911 Truthers do have never had the pleasure of being a Project Manager for a medium or large company.
Comparing a Project Manager for a medium or large company to the inner workings of the Mossad is ridiculous. In my prior comment I mentioned how I came across a bit of information that I had not been aware of until recently. It was from Ron Unz's American Pravda series on Mossad assassinations.

"... plans were put into motion for the huge bombing of an entire Beirut sports stadium using tons of explosives during a January 1st political ceremony,...But Sharon’s political enemies learned of the plot and emphasized that many foreign diplomats including the Soviet ambassador were expected to be present and probably would be killed, so after a bitter debate, Prime Minister Begin ordered the attack aborted. A future Mossad chief mentions the major headaches they then faced in removing the large quantity of explosives that they had already planted within the structure."

I found this revealing because it shows a precedent for large scale false-flag attacks where explosives are surreptitiously placed in a structure or building.

Ron Unz: "I think that this thoroughly documented history of Israeli major false-flag terrorist attacks, including those against American and other Western targets, should be carefully kept in mind when we consider the 9/11 attacks..."

Yep.
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Old 7th May 2020, 01:17 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Define "Project Manager"
If you have to ask, you've never been one.

Dave
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Old 7th May 2020, 01:19 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
It's worth mentioning that most, if not all, of these supposed incongruities are simply made up. There's a dangerous tendency to respond to 9/11 truthers asking questions like "How do you explain the fact that [x] happened on 9/11" with an attempt at explaining why [x] isn't implausible enough to imply a massive conspiracy, when in fact the true, and simpler, answer is almost always "[x] didn't, in fact, happen on 9/11."
Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
But we all know the evidence; the demolition of WTC7, the destruction of WTC 1 and 2; and the people celebrating the attacks as it happened, known affectionately as the 'Dancing Israelis'.
Thank you, the first and third of those are pretty much perfect examples.

Dave
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:09 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Ignorance isn't always bliss.

Steve Sailer has remarked on how it is now fashionable, amongst the denizens of the Left, to be ignorant on many topics. Political correctness is a war on noticing things you aren't suppose to notice. This attitude seems to be quite common with the commenters here.
Poisoning the Well

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Almost anyone can be a Nazi today. It is just like being a "racist", just tell some truths that Liberals don't like and Boom - Nazi. What is the criteria for being a Nazi today?

Wearing Polos = Nazi
Having blonde hair = Nazi
Being white = Nazi
Being a black conservative woman = Nazi *
Being opposed to our wars in the Middle East = Nazi **
Believing there are only two genders = Nazi ***
Believing in Freedom of Speech = Nazi ***

*See Candace Owens
** See Newsweek on Tucker Carlson
*** See any college campus
Bunch of Strawmen

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Wow, the Nazi Party (NSDAP) has not been around since 1945 but somehow they are responsible for or dreamt up the 9/11 attacks.
Another Strawman.

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
I believe Hitler was probably reacting to the fire-bombing of Dresden more than he was planning or wanting a 9/11 style attack on America.
Irrelevant.

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
But when it comes to suicide attacks with airplanes no one has the Japs beat; ... But we can't talk about them being crazy fanatics anymore because they are a non-white ethnic group; you know the word, stigma.
Guess who the Japanese were allied with?
How would you characterize the ruling ideology that led to Japan invading China and parts of Southeastern Asia?

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Because there are so many moving parts to 9/11 this makes it much easier to discern its false-flag nature compared to a simple bombing.
Bare assertion.

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
But we all know the evidence; the demolition of WTC7, the destruction of WTC 1 and 2; and the people celebrating the attacks as it happened, known affectionately as the 'Dancing Israelis'.
Assuming the consequent

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Comparing a Project Manager for a medium or large company to the inner workings of the Mossad is ridiculous.
How do you suppose Mossad does projects?
Or would you prefer to compare Mossad to a small company?

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
In my prior comment I mentioned how I came across a bit of information that I had not been aware of until recently. It was from Ron Unz's American Pravda series on Mossad assassinations.

"... plans were put into motion for the huge bombing of an entire Beirut sports stadium using tons of explosives during a January 1st political ceremony,...But Sharon’s political enemies learned of the plot and emphasized that many foreign diplomats including the Soviet ambassador were expected to be present and probably would be killed, so after a bitter debate, Prime Minister Begin ordered the attack aborted. A future Mossad chief mentions the major headaches they then faced in removing the large quantity of explosives that they had already planted within the structure."

I found this revealing because it shows a precedent for large scale false-flag attacks where explosives are surreptitiously placed in a structure or building.

Ron Unz: "I think that this thoroughly documented history of Israeli major false-flag terrorist attacks, including those against American and other Western targets, should be carefully kept in mind when we consider the 9/11 attacks..."

Yep.
You repeated bare assertion by this Mr. Unz.
Now where is some of this pesky stuff we call "evidence" 'round here?



Oh look - I quoted practically everything you wrote - and all of it is either fallacious outright, irrelevant, or not supported by evidence.
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Old 7th May 2020, 03:23 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Comparing a Project Manager for a medium or large company to the inner workings of the Mossad is ridiculous.
I’m inclined to agree, but what do the Mossad have to do with 9/11?
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Old 7th May 2020, 03:26 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
We have a Nazi-sympathizing 9/11 truther in our midst, which is somewhat peculiar when you consider that the Nazis may have been the first to come up with the idea of flying suicide planes into New York skyscrapers.

https://likoed.nl/2007/09/the-nazi-r...oed-nederland/
Not as peculiar as Nazi sympathizers denying the Holocaust...
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:56 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Almost anyone can be a Nazi today. It is just like being a "racist", just tell some truths that Liberals don't like and Boom - Nazi. What is the criteria for being a Nazi today?

Wearing Polos = Nazi
Having blonde hair = Nazi
Being white = Nazi
Being a black conservative woman = Nazi *
Being opposed to our wars in the Middle East = Nazi **
Believing there are only two genders = Nazi ***
Believing in Freedom of Speech = Nazi ***

*See Candace Owens
** See Newsweek on Tucker Carlson
*** See any college campus
That's an interesting leap.

A smart person would have simply pointed out Unz is half-Jewish, and cannot be a Nazi no matter how hard he defends them.

Quote:
Wow, the Nazi Party (NSDAP) has not been around since 1945 but somehow they are responsible for or dreamt up the 9/11 attacks. I believe Hitler was probably reacting to the fire-bombing of Dresden more than he was planning or wanting a 9/11 style attack on America.
Not what he said, and Dresden was a central railway hub.

Quote:
But when it comes to suicide attacks with airplanes no one has the Japs beat; not Al-Qaeda, ISIS nor Hezbollah. I believe there were almost 3,000 kamikaze attacks by the Japs on the US Navy in WWII. But we can't talk about them being crazy fanatics anymore because they are a non-white ethnic group; you know the word, stigma.
Japs? Who calls them Japs anymore? That's right - racists.



Quote:
Because there are so many moving parts to 9/11 this makes it much easier to discern its false-flag nature compared to a simple bombing. It was really a Sloppy Joe inside job. But we all know the evidence; the demolition of WTC7, the destruction of WTC 1 and 2; and the people celebrating the attacks as it happened, known affectionately as the 'Dancing Israelis'.
And yet after 19 years there is no proof of anyone other than Al Qaeda involved.

Thanks for playing.


Quote:
Comparing a Project Manager for a medium or large company to the inner workings of the Mossad is ridiculous. In my prior comment I mentioned how I came across a bit of information that I had not been aware of until recently. It was from Ron Unz's American Pravda series on Mossad assassinations.
Please describe - in detail - the inner workings of Mossad, and how it is different from a medium or large company. While you're at it, detail the CIA, MI6, and FSB's inner workings as well so we can all bask in your vast knowledge of covert agencies.
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Old 7th May 2020, 06:26 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
You repeated bare assertion by this Mr. Unz.
Now where is some of this pesky stuff we call "evidence" 'round here?

Oh look - I quoted practically everything you wrote - and all of it is either fallacious outright, irrelevant, or not supported by evidence.
Ron Unz was relaying information from the book Rise and Kill First by New York Times reporter Ronen Bergman.

- WINNER OF THE NATIONAL JEWISH BOOK AWARD IN HISTORY
- NAMED ONE OF THE BEST BOOKS OF THE YEAR BY The Economist • The New York Times Book Review • BBC History Magazine • Mother Jones • Kirkus Reviews
- “Leading any list of notable nonfiction books—Jewish or not—must be Ronen Bergman’s Rise and Kill First, a massive and extravagantly well-sourced history of the use of the tool of assassination by Israel’s intelligence services. . . . One’s mouth is often agape with amazement, even shock, while reading.”—Haaretz
- “Ronen Bergman has set out in incontestable detail the history and scale of Israel’s use of extrajudicial killing as an instrument of defense and foreign policy. His material is stark and sensational, but he steers a steady course through it, even pausing along the way to debate the effectiveness and morality of his subject. The result is a compelling read whatever your point of view.”—John le Carré

If you wish to say that this book is entirely fictional then I suppose you are free to do so. But as ignorance and incuriosity reign supreme among the Skeptics, anything that challenges their existing worldview is instantly dismissed with "no evidence."

I mentioned one incident which seemed germane to 9/11; the plot for a huge bombing of an entire Beirut sports stadium.

You also commented on Ron Unz's "bare assertion" regarding the history of Israeli/Zionist terrorist attacks against US and western targets. Would you classify these events as "bare assertions" or historical events:

- The 1946 bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem by Zionist militants dressed as Arabs, which killed 91 people and largely destroyed the structure.
- The famous Lavon Affair of 1954, where Israeli agents launched a wave of terrorist attacks against Western targets in Egypt, intending to have those blamed on anti-Western Arab groups.
- In 1967, Israel launched a deliberate air and sea attack against the U.S.S. Liberty, intending to leave no survivors, and ultimately killing or wounding over 200 American servicemen.
- The Zionist assassinations of Britain’s Lord Moyne Walter Guinness in 1944.
- The Zionist assassination of U.N. Peace Negotiator Count Folke Bernadotte.

Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
I’m inclined to agree, but what do the Mossad have to do with 9/11?
The natural response to seeing the events of 9/11 would be shock and horror. If you go back and watch the coverage from that day that is exactly what you see. Except there was one small group of people that seemed elated by the event; happy and joyous. These people have become known as the Dancing Israelis.

"A homemaker living near Liberty State Park, Jersey City, New Jersey sees three men behaving strangely on a nearby roof and alerts the authorities. This homemaker, who has given only her first name Maria, is called by a neighbor shortly after the first plane has hit the WTC and is told about the impact. She has a view of the WTC from her apartment building so she gets her binoculars and watches the disaster. However, she also notices three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. Maria will later recall, “They seemed to be taking a movie.” They are taking video or photos of themselves with the WTC burning in the background. But what strikes Maria is their expressions: “They were like happy, you know… They didn’t look shocked to me. I thought it was very strange."

"The FBI issues a BOLO (be on lookout) bulletin for three suspicious men who were seen leaving the New Jersey waterfront minutes after the first hijacked plane hit the WTC...Five Israelis are arrested for “puzzling behavior” related to the WTC attacks. Shortly after an FBI lookout bulletin was issued for a van with the words “Urban Moving Systems”...The FBI will later conclude at least two of the five are Mossad agents and that all were on a Mossad surveillance mission. The FBI interrogates them for weeks."
History Commons

Amazing, members of the Mossad have foreknowledge of and are celebrating the 9/11 attacks on America as they happen. That is just the kind of behavior we expect from our "greatest ally" in the Middle-East.
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:43 PM   #339
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1. Mossad is cool.
2. Attacking the US, their most important ally, would be a mistake.
3. They likely passed along intelligence about an upcoming attack to the US which was ignored, a number of foreign agencies did the same thing.

4. Nothing the US has done since 9/11/2001 has made Israel any more secure. In fact, our wars have put Iran's striking ability closer to Israel than it was in 2001.
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Old 7th May 2020, 09:22 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
...
Amazing, members of the Mossad have foreknowledge of and are celebrating the 9/11 attacks on America as they happen. That is just the kind of behavior we expect from our "greatest ally" in the Middle-East.
Prove it...
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Old 8th May 2020, 02:43 AM   #341
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Again...what does Mossad have to do with 9/11?
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Old 8th May 2020, 04:43 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Ron Unz was relaying information from the book Rise and Kill First by New York Times reporter Ronen Bergman.

- WINNER OF THE NATIONAL JEWISH BOOK AWARD IN HISTORY
- NAMED ONE OF THE BEST BOOKS OF THE YEAR BY The Economist • The New York Times Book Review • BBC History Magazine • Mother Jones • Kirkus Reviews
- “Leading any list of notable nonfiction books—Jewish or not—must be Ronen Bergman’s Rise and Kill First, a massive and extravagantly well-sourced history of the use of the tool of assassination by Israel’s intelligence services. . . . One’s mouth is often agape with amazement, even shock, while reading.”—Haaretz
- “Ronen Bergman has set out in incontestable detail the history and scale of Israel’s use of extrajudicial killing as an instrument of defense and foreign policy. His material is stark and sensational, but he steers a steady course through it, even pausing along the way to debate the effectiveness and morality of his subject. The result is a compelling read whatever your point of view.”—John le Carré
That doesn't answer the question of what and where the evidence is for Unz' remarks. Why did you quote Unz and not Bergman? I have a suspicion that Unz might cherry-pick and take stuff from Bergman's book out of context. It's your burden to lift the evidence.

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
If you wish to say that this book is entirely fictional ...
Oh don't Strawman me before I even start speaking on the issue! Do you think I would not spot your transparently fallacious shenanigans?

I have no time to continue reading such pervasively dishonest diatribes.

Let me know if and when you decide to debate honestly.
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Old 8th May 2020, 07:24 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
That doesn't answer the question of what and where the evidence is for Unz' remarks. Why did you quote Unz and not Bergman? I have a suspicion that Unz might cherry-pick and take stuff from Bergman's book out of context. It's your burden to lift the evidence.


Oh don't Strawman me before I even start speaking on the issue! Do you think I would not spot your transparently fallacious shenanigans?

I have no time to continue reading such pervasively dishonest diatribes.

Let me know if and when you decide to debate honestly.
Don't hold your breath.
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Old 20th May 2020, 07:07 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
Again...what does Mossad have to do with 9/11?
Members of the Mossad were seen celebrating the 9/11 attacks and filming the event. They were picked up by the police and taken into custody. The were held and questioned by the FBI for 71 days. The FBI released a report on the incident. Here are some of the more memorable passages:

From the FBI report: “…one of the males appeared to be taking still photographs and video of the other males with the WTC in the background. All of the males appeared to be jovial in that they smiled, hugged one another, and gave “high fives“.

Film obtained from the 35mm camera of one of the detainees was later developed and processed by the Newark Division. The photos clearly corroborate [Blank’s] statements in that the Israelis are visibly happy on nearly all of the photgraphs.”

A former Urban Moving Systems employee later contacted the Newark Division with information indicating that he had quit his employment with Urban Moving Systems due to high amount of anti-American sentiment present among Urban’s employees. The former employee stated that an Israeli employee of Urban had even once remarked, ‘Give us twenty (20) years and we’ll take over your media and destroy your country.

So why are Israelis and Mossad members so exuberant over the 9/11 attacks? Any reasonable person (i.e. non-skeptics) would find this highly suspicious.

Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
That doesn't answer the question of what and where the evidence is for Unz' remarks. Why did you quote Unz and not Bergman? I have a suspicion that Unz might cherry-pick and take stuff from Bergman's book out of context. It's your burden to lift the evidence.

Oh don't Strawman me before I even start speaking on the issue! Do you think I would not spot your transparently fallacious shenanigans?.
I quoted Ron Unz when he wrote, "I think that this thoroughly documented history of Israeli major false-flag terrorist attacks, including those against American and other Western targets, should be carefully kept in mind when we consider the 9/11 attacks..."

You replied, "You repeated bare assertion by this Mr. Unz."

So I asked if the events(King David Hotel bombing, USS Liberty attack etc) detailed by Ron Unz were "bare assertions" or historical events. You did not answer this question.

Regarding the the plan to bomb an entire Beirut sports stadium, you can find an article about it here:

The remarkable disappearing act of Israel’s car-bombing campaign in Lebanon

From the article:

"According to the plan, several trucks loaded with about two tons of explosives were to be stationed around a Beirut theater where the PLO leadership planned to have dinner in December. “One massive explosion would eliminate the entire PLO leadership,” Bergman writes. The idea was abandoned (Bergman gives no explanation as to why) and immediately replaced with an even more ambitious (and potentially destructive) scheme. Code-named Olympia 2, it would take place on January 1, 1982. The target: a Beirut stadium where the PLO planned to celebrate the anniversary of its founding.

Ten days prior to the attack, agents recruited by Dagan positioned large amounts of explosives under the VIP dais where the Palestinian leaders would be sitting, all of them “remotely controlled detonation device.” That was not all however. “At one of the unit’s bases three miles from the border,” Bergman explains, “three vehicles – a truck loaded with a ton and a half of explosives and two Mercedes sedans with 550 pounds each – had been prepared.” On the day of the celebration, “three Shiite members of the Front for the Liberation of Lebanon from Foreigners” would drive these vehicles and park them outside the stadium. “They would be detonated by remote control about a minute after the explosives under the dais,” the author writes, “when the panic was at its height and the people who had survived were trying to get away,” before adding: “The death and destruction were expected to be “of unprecedented proportions, even in terms of Lebanon,” in the words of a very senior officer of the Northern Command.
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Old 20th May 2020, 08:28 PM   #345
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K. Even if we generously assume that is all true, it means nothing. Sunni Islamist terrorists planned and carried out 9/11.
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Old 20th May 2020, 10:03 PM   #346
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This is the best write-up of the "Dancing Israelis" from a non-antisemitic source:

https://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885&page=1

Quote:
Steven Gordon, the attorney for the five Israeli detainees, acknowledged that his clients' actions on Sept. 11 would easily have aroused suspicions. "You got a group of guys that are taking pictures, on top of a roof, of the World Trade Center. They're speaking in a foreign language. They got two passports on 'em. One's got a wad of cash on him, and they got box cutters. Now that's a scary situation."

But Gordon insisted that his clients were just five young men who had come to America for a vacation, ended up working for a moving company, and were taking pictures of the event.

The five Israelis were held at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, ostensibly for overstaying their tourist visas and working in the United States illegally. Two weeks after their arrest, an immigration judge ordered them to be deported. But sources told ABCNEWS that FBI and CIA officials in Washington put a hold on the case.

The five men were held in detention for more than two months. Some of them were placed in solitary confinement for 40 days, and some of them were given as many as seven lie-detector tests.
In short, the FBI gave them the treatment.

Quote:
Eventually, The Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in New York, reported the FBI concluded that two of the men were Israeli intelligence operatives.

Vince Cannistraro, a former chief of operations for counterterrorism with the CIA who is now a consultant for ABCNEWS, said federal authorities' interest in the case was heightened when some of the men's names were found in a search of a national intelligence database.
So let's say they're Mossad. So what?

Quote:
Under this scenario, the alleged spying operation was not aimed against the United States, but at penetrating or monitoring radical fund-raising and support networks in Muslim communities like Paterson, N.J., which was one of the places where several of the hijackers lived in the months prior to Sept. 11.

For the FBI, deciphering the truth from the five Israelis proved to be difficult. One of them, Paul Kurzberg, refused to take a lie-detector test for 10 weeks — then failed it, according to his lawyer. Another of his lawyers told us Kurzberg had been reluctant to take the test because he had once worked for Israeli intelligence in another country.
Weird, because the FBI was also spying on those targets too.

Anyway, the Dancing Israelis has been put to bed 18 years ago.
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Old 21st May 2020, 04:27 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post

A former Urban Moving Systems employee later contacted the Newark Division with information indicating that he had quit his employment with Urban Moving Systems due to high amount of anti-American sentiment present among Urban’s employees. The former employee stated that an Israeli employee of Urban had even once remarked, ‘Give us twenty (20) years and we’ll take over your media and destroy your country.
Well, that's not far off now.
How is that Israeli plan going? Is there any free media left in America? Has the US been destroyed yet?
Any signs of the Evil Jewish Plan To Do Evil Things Because Evil And Jewish at all?
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Old 21st May 2020, 07:59 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
... So why are Israelis and Mossad members so exuberant over the 9/11 attacks? Any reasonable person (i.e. non-skeptics) would find this highly suspicious. ...
You mean like when JFK was killed the neo-NAZI idiot kid in the class expressed himself standing up and exposing his bigotry and hate inspired by his parents biases and hate.

You think everyone like the USA? How did the Mossad the enemy of UBL, get UBL to do 9/11? Easy, UBL promised to kill Americans. Mossad did not have to do anything.

Now you think idiots were celebrating death, and that is proof for a false flag, which was done by UBL who promised to do it? What great logic you have, the logic of fantasy. All you have to do is quote mine and cherry pick your way to BS - you are good at it but fail to realize "Any reasonable person (i.e. non-skeptics)" and skeptics know your full of BS. Maybe you need to be more skeptical of your fantasy side.

You post BS, and fail to make a point. You can't say what you want to say because it is so far into fantasy and nonsense. oops, you said it by quoting other people?

Do you have any thing to say?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 06:43 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Do you have any thing to say?
*crickets*
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Old 25th May 2020, 06:45 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
K. Even if we generously assume that is all true, it means nothing. Sunni Islamist terrorists planned and carried out 9/11.
The only basis for believing that Sunni Islamist terrorists carried out the 9/11 attacks is that the government said so. We can go by the adage, "Trust but verify". but when we attempt to verify the story falls apart.

The media-intelligence complex (MIC) also stated that Saddam Hussein was in league with bin Laden; that he was producing massive amounts of WMD; that he was working on a nuclear program; that Mohamed Atta had met with Iraqi intelligence in Prague for the purpose of obtaining Anthrax etc.

On the eve of the Iraq Attaq President Bush had stated, "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

Yet after the invasion all these WMDs seemed to just disappear into the ether.

The same thing occurred after 9/11; the FBI was looking for all these Islamic terror cells all over the country but none ever seemed to turn up. But without making much of an effort at all, the American government quickly rounded up and detained some 60 Israeli and Mossad agents. And the only ones arrested because they were seen celebrating the 9/11 attacks were Israelis, not Muslims.


Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
This is the best write-up of the "Dancing Israelis" from a non-antisemitic source:
I was quoting from the FBI report on the detained Israeli agents. The only thing that makes it "anti-semitic" is that it is true information which contradicts the official narrative promulgated by the MIC. The story was put to bed, yes, but a better way of saying it is that that the story was memory-holed. Any piece of information that can't be made consistent with the official narrative will be dumped down the drain like it never happened at all.

How many people remember this incident?

Ron Unz writes, "Just a month after the 9/11 attacks, two Israelis were caught sneaking weapons and explosives into the Mexican Parliament building, a story that naturally produced several banner-headlines in leading Mexican newspapers at the time but was greeted by total silence in the American media. Eventually, under massive political pressure, all charges were dropped and the Israeli agents were deported back home."

I was still able to locate a small article on this event from Diario de México,

Translated from Spanish:
Bomb in San Lázaro Two arrested, one a foreigner Were carrying attaché case with explosives and grenades, Carrying guns, were arrested by guards

THERE was uproar in the Chamber of Deputies, provoked by the arrested of two individuals, presumed to be of Israeli origin, who were carrying a high power gun and an attaché case with nine grenades, three magazines with 53 cartridges and C-4 explosives, considered to be highly powerful. The arrested men who said they were called Salvador Gerson Sunke, of Mexican nationality, and Sar ben Zui, who said he was a colonel of the Israeli special forces, remained in custody for over three hours in the legislature building, during which they said nothing, before they were interviewed by officials of the Public Prosecutor's office (PGR) who removed them from the Legislature Palace, concealed in hoods, and placed them under arrest
."

Apparently they had been carrying Pakistani passports. Nevertheless, this incident was quickly forgotten about.


Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Well, that's not far off now.
How is that Israeli plan going? Is there any free media left in America? Has the US been destroyed yet?
Any signs of the Evil Jewish Plan To Do Evil Things Because Evil And Jewish at all?
"The former employee stated that an Israeli employee of Urban had even once remarked, ‘Give us twenty (20) years and we’ll take over your media and destroy your country."
FBI report

It sounds like some of those Israeli agents may have been perusing the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.

Ron Unz has remarked on how much America has decayed since 9/11; insolvency (5 trillion dollar debt ballooning to 20 trillion plus) declining life expectancy; the opioid epidemic, crumbling infrastructure etc.

Ron Unz, "The endless American wars soon unleashed have already cost us many trillions of dollars and set our nation on the road to bankruptcy while killing or displacing many millions of innocent Middle Easterners...Our traditional civil liberties and constitutional protections have been drastically eroded, with our society having taken long steps toward becoming an outright police state...Partly as a consequence, almost no other nation [Israel] in the world has so enormously improved its strategic and economic situation during the last seventeen years, even while a large fraction of the American population has become completely impoverished during that same period and our national debt has grown to insurmountable levels. A parasite can often grow fat even as its host suffers and declines."

That pretty much sums up our fake news century so far.
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Old 26th May 2020, 12:13 AM   #351
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Nobody cares what Ron Unz thinks. He is a nutjob.

Quote:
The media-intelligence complex (MIC) also stated that Saddam Hussein was in league with bin Laden; that he was producing massive amounts of WMD; that he was working on a nuclear program; that Mohamed Atta had met with Iraqi intelligence in Prague for the purpose of obtaining Anthrax etc.

On the eve of the Iraq Attaq President Bush had stated, "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.
And this is a shining example of why 911 Trutherism is dangerous. Anyone who tells you Al Qaeda was part of a larger conspiracy is a liar, and racist.

Members of the Bush Administration, like every 911 Truther, latched onto rumors and cherry-picked information to to bolster their idiotic theory that Saddamn was behind 911, and justify invading Iraq. Just as Unz cherry-picks information information to bolster his anti-Israeli world view (because he has daddy issues).

Unz is no different that the Bush Administration. He a bigoted fool who appeals to racist morons.
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Old 26th May 2020, 03:56 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
The only basis for believing that Sunni Islamist terrorists carried out the 9/11 attacks is that the government said so.
No, it isn't. That is absolutely untrue, and to say so just displays willful ignorance.

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
We can go by the adage, "Trust but verify". but when we attempt to verify the story falls apart.
OK, great. Let's do that.

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
The media-intelligence complex (MIC) also stated that Saddam Hussein was in league with bin Laden; that he was producing massive amounts of WMD; that he was working on a nuclear program; that Mohamed Atta had met with Iraqi intelligence in Prague for the purpose of obtaining Anthrax etc.
This is about the pretext for the Iraq invasion, not about the guilt of Al Qaeda.

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
On the eve of the Iraq Attaq President Bush had stated, "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
Not relevant, as noted above.

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Yet after the invasion all these WMDs seemed to just disappear into the ether.
Not relevant, as noted above.

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
The same thing occurred after 9/11; the FBI was looking for all these Islamic terror cells all over the country but none ever seemed to turn up.
Utter bilge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ates_post-9/11


Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
But without making much of an effort at all, the American government quickly rounded up and detained some 60 Israeli and Mossad agents.
Citation needed.

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
And the only ones arrested because they were seen celebrating the 9/11 attacks were Israelis, not Muslims.
There are Israeli Muslims, you know.

So, you have failed in your stated objective of examining the common narrative.
Nothing you have said here disproves the involvement of Al Qaeda.
Thus, the common narrative stands.

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post

Ron Unz writes, "
Ron Unz.
Yeah, he's credible.
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Old 26th May 2020, 07:10 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
...
The media-intelligence complex (MIC) also stated that Saddam Hussein was in league with bin Laden; that he was producing massive amounts of WMD; that he was working on a nuclear program; that Mohamed Atta had met with Iraqi intelligence in Prague for the purpose of obtaining Anthrax etc.

On the eve of the Iraq Attaq President Bush had stated, "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
...
Thanks for bringing or our attention an important case in which the mainstream media figured out that what the government claimed was WRONG:

You see, where I live, in Germany, it was commonly accepted - because main stream media had investigated and found the claims to be highly dubious - that the Bush administration, perhaps best remembered in personam Colin Powell presenting before the UN Security Council, was mistaken at best, plainly lying at worst, about Iraqi WMD. Also, by that time not even the US administration claimed any longer that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11. Why? Because that claim had been thoroughly discredited by mainstream media.

You would be right if you claimed that the media reported the false US government claims - and that some media, perhaps mostly those ideologically close to the GOP, even believed them for a while. But all the time, there was also competing narratives, such as the one by the UN Security Council's own weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq (Hans Blix, Scott Ritter), or such as Al Qaeda's own admissions and last wills, as published by mainstream media in the Middle East and also reported by western mainstream media.

As time wore on, as more and more facts came to light, as actual, able investigative journalists did their hard work, the falsehoods that we all today know to have been false were pointed out as false - by the mainstream media.

We did NOT learn this from antisemtic conspiracy fantasists and late-comers like you.
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Old 27th May 2020, 02:44 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
The only basis for believing that Sunni Islamist terrorists carried out the 9/11 attacks is that the government said so.
Not sure if you're lying, or just wrong.

Thing is, we have many non-government sources pointing to that. The passenger manifests didn't come from government sources, for example; they came from a private company. Jarrah's girlfriend is not a government source either. The 9/11 Commission Report contains lots of footnotes, many of which contain sources that are not from the government.

Why don't you verify the sources of the 9/11 Commission Report, for example? That'd be a big step towards a real verification of whether Sunni Islamist terrorists carried out the 9/11 attacks.

And once you've verified them, try to reconcile that with your view.
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