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Old 4th December 2007, 02:22 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
Just like if a person "Thinks" that their neighbor is stealing their mail. It is NOT the job of the victim to prove it, it is the victim's job to call authorities who form and investigation.[/b]
Except in this instance there has been an investigation, there is tons of video of the guy picking up his own mail, there is plenty of scientific and eyewitness evidence to show the guy accused was never anywhere near the mailbox at the time of the alleged thefts, and it turns out the guy making the accusation has a personal grudge against the accusee, and has been institutionalized for mental problems in the past.

At that point, it's no longer the job of the authorities to do a second investigation just to humor the crazy guy.

Hey, YOU chose the analogy. I'm just making it fit the situation.
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Last edited by Drudgewire; 4th December 2007 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:24 PM   #42
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Drudge:

GMTA

Or, in our case, MMTA

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Old 4th December 2007, 02:27 PM   #43
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Well, I have read various translations of the entire article from several different sources (mostly Truth sites), and did my own, and I can say two things:

1. The translation in the linked Blog is garbage.

2. The meaning of the article is shrouded in the mysteries of Italian politics. It seems to be mostly an attack on Silvio Berlusconi?

I don't give it much credence one way or the other in any event.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:31 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Tokorona View Post
No, it was an example, and since that is your viewpoint, why do you post here? Go call the authorities.
I don't need to. I am sure they have already been called time and time again.

OK...and as for "proof" that the official story was a haox...chew on these.

"I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described," said John Farmer, a former New Jersey attorney general who led the staff inquiry into events on September 11, in an August 2006 interview.

Hamilton listed a number of reasons why the commission was set up to fail, including the late start of the Commission and the very short deadline imposed; the insufficient funds, 3 million dollars, initially allocated for conducting such an extensive investigation (later the Commission requested and received additional funds, but the chairs still felt hamstrung); the many politicians who did not want the Commission formed; the continuing resistance and opposition to the work of the Commission by many politicians, particularly those who did not wish to be blamed for any of what happened; and the denial of access by various agencies to documents and witnesses. "So there were all kinds of reasons we thought we were set up to fail."

I could keep quoting and quoting and quoting...but it will just make this thread long and off topic.

Let's get back on topic here. This thread was about Ex Italian Prez remember. Please don't TRY to get me to give a theory, as I have none.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:32 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Huntsman View Post
Drudge:

GMTA

Or, in our case, MMTA

Hell yeah son.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:35 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
This is where the problem is.

Everyone is so busy working, trying to pay bills, make sure their kids get fed and make it to soccer practice, it's really hard to get everyone together.

Millions are going to have their adjustable mortgage rates skyrocket. The price of gas and food and everything has risen. You have to work harder just too keep afloat.

It will happen...just when, nobody knows.
Lame argument and here's why.

In late December and early January hundreds of thousands of people, who are in the exact same situations you mentioned above, will pack their bags in the houses who's ARMs have jacked through the roof, put the kids you mentioned in a car, burn gallons and gallons of gas, spend hundreds (in some cases thousands) of dollars on food. Why?

So they can go to Bowl games.

Many will go to these games to watch their old school play football. Many will do it just because they are fans, they didn't go to the school, hell some didn't even go to college.

Truth seekers claim, at best, our government is lying about the murder of 3,000 fellow citizens, or at worst, murdered those 3,000 themselves.

You yourself said
Quote:
Give it a rest already and help us try and fix this government already.
and then you post the above as an excuse of why "truth seeker" types can't be bothered to leave their houses, go to DC or Ground Zero and demand the truth?

As I stated in the beginning, lame.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:38 PM   #47
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Now it's time "I" ask a question.

What will it take? Who has to come out and say;

"The official story is a lie"?

The Media
Dick Cheney
Nancy Pelosi
Hitlary Clinton
Jack Webb
Inspector Gadget
Secret Squirrel

What is the one event when you people will finally say;

OK, sorry, we were wrong and it's now time we do something to change things.

What is that event, or person, that will open your eyes?

Last edited by Astute Perspicuous; 4th December 2007 at 02:41 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:43 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
Now it's time "I" ask a question.

What will it take? Who has to come out and say;

"The official story is a lie"?

The Media
Dick Cheney
Nancy Pelosi
Hitlary Clinton
Jack Webb
Inspector Gadget
Secret Squirrel

What is the one event when you people will finally say;

OK, sorry, we were wrong and it's now time we do something to change things.

What is that evet, or person, that will open your eyes?
Proof that the official story is a lie.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:44 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
Now it's time "I" ask a question.

What will it take? Who has to come out and say;

"The official story is a lie"?

The Media
Dick Cheney
Nancy Pelosi
Hitlary Clinton
Jack Webb
Inspector Gadget
Secret Squirrel

What is the one event when you people will finally say;

OK, sorry, we were wrong and it's now time we do something to change things.

What is that evet, or person, that will open your eyes?
Actually, any of them... along with paperwork, unbiased testimony which supports them, or physical evidence that proves their point. Again, we're skeptics... give us REAL evidence and we'll follow it.

Of course, we've been waiting six years for a shred of it and haven't gotten any yet.

Now back atcha, what would it take for you to be convinced that everything your side spouts is speculative horsecrap with no basis in reality and despite anything else that has made this administration a total bust they didn't blow up the twin towers or allow it to happen?
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Last edited by Drudgewire; 4th December 2007 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:44 PM   #50
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You should change your username for "obtuse pernicious".
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:44 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
Proof that the official story is a lie.
and that proof would be?
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:45 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
You should change your username for "obtuse pernicious".

Let the name calling begin...

I love you too
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:48 PM   #53
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It is very bizarre.

It is not a quote of Cossiga, but of Cossiga "quoting" an article due to appear.

In the original article in the Corriere della Serra, Cossiga is quoted as saying that "A quanto mi è stato detto domani o dopo domani la più potente catena quotidiani-periodici del nostro Paese dovrebbe dare le prove, con uno scoop eccezionale ..."

Meaning: "I have been told that tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, the most powerful press-group of our country will prove, in an exceptional scoop ...", followed by the claim that OBL's last audio has been fabricated in Milan at the instigation of Berlusconi, and later the "inside job" claim.

If you read carefully, Cossiga claims that a press-group will reveal it.

The article in Corriere della Serra is from november 30, so the "exceptional scoop" should have appeared by now.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:49 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
and that proof would be?
Something more than the oft-trumpeted CTer smoking guns that turn out to be maifestations of ignorance.

Like CTers trumping the Italian politician's CT stance based on a very poor translation of a small part of a foreign article...a pre-judgement accepted because it fits with bias, instead of waiting for all the facts to come in.

Last edited by Hellbound; 4th December 2007 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:50 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
This is where the problem is.

Everyone is so busy working, trying to pay bills, make sure their kids get fed and make it to soccer practice, it's really hard to get everyone together.

Millions are going to have their adjustable mortgage rates skyrocket. The price of gas and food and everything has risen. You have to work harder just too keep afloat.

It will happen...just when, nobody knows.


Priceless. Freedom is only worth wittering away about endlessly on the internet.

What's the tipping point? How many americans does this incredible conspiracy have to kill before it's worth getting off your arse and doing something?

Can you put a number on it?
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:50 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
The article in Corriere della Serra is from november 30, so the "exceptional scoop" should have appeared by now.
Oopsie. vv
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-lapman describing every twoofer on the internet
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:52 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
Everyone is so busy working, trying to pay bills, make sure their kids get fed and make it to soccer practice, it's really hard to get everyone together.

I guess these folks had no responsibilities

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Old 4th December 2007, 02:52 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by uk_dave View Post


Priceless. Freedom is only worth wittering away about endlessly on the internet.

What's the tipping point? How many americans does this incredible conspiracy have to kill before it's worth getting off your arse and doing something?

Can you put a number on it?

237,742
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:54 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
237,742
Oh well, you're safe then.

Pleased to see you don't take the imaginary conspiracy seriously.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:54 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
and that proof would be?
For starters the people you mentioned saying "it was a lie" and having the documentation to back it up.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:55 PM   #61
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Firestone:

"The article in Corriere della Serra is from november 30, so the "exceptional scoop" should have appeared by now."

The exceptional scoop was the Osama audio, and the audio did mention Berlusconi, for the first time.

I need a primer on Italian Politics

Last edited by The Big Dog; 4th December 2007 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:57 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by bynmdsue View Post
I guess these folks had no responsibilities

http://www.historicaldocuments.com/M...tonPhotoAA.jpg
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:59 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by bynmdsue View Post
I guess these folks had no responsibilities

http://www.historicaldocuments.com/M...tonPhotoAA.jpg
And it was a Wednesday.

http://www.number-one.org/~rigg/dlr0164.htm
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:00 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
For starters the people you mentioned saying "it was a lie" and having the documentation to back it up.
Try reading "Without Precedent" Lee Hamilton & Thomas Kean
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:00 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
Hahahaha, great shot of two 9/11 cover-up signs in the middle of a massive anti-war rally.

Man, you're still new to this whole concept of evidence that doesn't need quotation marks around the word, aren't you?
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:01 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
Looks like an anti-war rally, with a few twoofers.
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:01 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Firestone:

"The article in Corriere della Serra is from november 30, so the "exceptional scoop" should have appeared by now."

The exceptional scoop was the Osama audio, and the audio did mention Berlusconi, for the first time.
No, the article in the Corriere della Serra appeared after the release of the audio.
The scoop was supposed to be that the Bin Laden-audio was fabricated in Milan by Berlusconi's cronies.
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:02 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
Yes, a few people carrying truth seeker signs joined a peace protest march. Once again, lame.
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:06 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
Try reading "Without Precedent" Lee Hamilton & Thomas Kean
In the words of the commission’s co-chairmen, this is the compelling inside story of how the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States—more commonly known as the 9/11 Commission—managed to succeed against all odds in producing a report that made clear what went wrong and why.

http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/d...=9780307263773
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:07 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Drudgewire View Post
Actually, any of them... along with paperwork, unbiased testimony which supports them, or physical evidence that proves their point. Again, we're skeptics... give us REAL evidence and we'll follow it.

Of course, we've been waiting six years for a shred of it and haven't gotten any yet.

Now back atcha, what would it take for you to be convinced that everything your side spouts is speculative horsecrap with no basis in reality and despite anything else that has made this administration a total bust they didn't blow up the twin towers or allow it to happen?

You didn't answer. If you would be so kind as to do so.
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:10 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
No, the article in the Corriere della Serra appeared after the release of the audio.
The scoop was supposed to be that the Bin Laden-audio was fabricated in Milan by Berlusconi's cronies.
While the article may have appeared after the release of the audio, there is no doubt that the ex-pres's comments were made BEFORE the release (in fact I think he called it a video, and he said the Silvio had not contacted his successor, and the report ends noting "In realtà è giunta a Berlusconi la solidarietà per il governo di Vannino Chiti, ministro per i Rapporti con il Parlamento." Which I take to mean that Berlusconi had contacted him and expressed his "solidarity" with the new government).
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:11 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
In the words of the commission’s co-chairmen, this is the compelling inside story of how the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States—more commonly known as the 9/11 Commission—managed to succeed against all odds in producing a report that made clear what went wrong and why.

http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/d...=9780307263773
Not to mention that Hamilton clearly states here that he doesn't believe the American government was behind 9/11:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:19 PM   #73
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Sorry, double.
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:23 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
While the article may have appeared after the release of the audio, there is no doubt that the ex-pres's comments were made BEFORE the release (in fact I think he called it a video, and he said the Silvio had not contacted his successor, and the report ends noting "In realtà è giunta a Berlusconi la solidarietà per il governo di Vannino Chiti, ministro per i Rapporti con il Parlamento." Which I take to mean that Berlusconi had contacted him and expressed his "solidarity" with the new government).
Sorry to disagree again.

There is really no doubt that Cossiga is talking about the already released audio (which he indeed calls video), and annouces a coming scoop.
Cossiga explicitly says that Al Jazeera has already broadcasted the message: "...un videomontaggio realizzato negli studi di Mediaset a Milano e fatto giungere alla rete televisiva islamista Al Jazira che lo ha ampiamente diffuso."

The last paragraph of Cossiga's quote is:

"Per questo - conclude Cossiga - nessuna parola di solidarietà è giunta a Silvio Berlusconi, che sarebbe l'ideatore della geniale falsificazione, né dal Quirinale, né da Palazzo Chigi né da esponenti del centrosinistra!"

Meaning: "For this reason [9/11 being an inside job]- concludes Cossiga - no show of solidarity with Berlusconi [who is treathened in the audio by Bin Laden], the maker of this fake audio will come from the president, the prime minister or others from the centre-left".

The Corriere della Serra concludes: "In realtà è giunta a Berlusconi la solidarietà per il governo di Vannino Chiti, ministro per i Rapporti con il Parlamento."

Meaning: "In reality, minister Vannino Chiti, minister for the relations with the parliament, has expressed, in the name of the governement, his solidarity with Berlusconi."
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Last edited by Firestone; 4th December 2007 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:24 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
Not to mention that Hamilton clearly states here that he doesn't believe the American government was behind 9/11:

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I AGREE
A truther providing evidence that directly blows his own point out of the water? Well that has to be a first.
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:25 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
Not to mention that Hamilton clearly states here that he doesn't believe the American government was behind 9/11:

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I AGREE
I agree 100%...The US Gov "was not" behind 9/11.

International Bankers owe no loyalty to any certain country.
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:26 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
I agree 100%...The US Gov "was not" behind 9/11.

International Bankers owe no loyalty to any certain country.
And yet an awful lot* of you seem to think they give their loyalty to Israel.




*"awful lot" based on percentage of twoofers who use the term "international bankers." In the real world there aren't an "awful lot" of you.
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"You post a lie, it is proven 100% false, you move the goalposts and post yet another lie and it continues on around till we're back to the original lie as if it will somehow become true if it's re-iterated again. The same misquotes over and over again. The same hindsight bias, appeals to authority, etc."
-lapman describing every twoofer on the internet

Last edited by Drudgewire; 4th December 2007 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:28 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
Now that, was friggin' lame. Three twoofer signs poked into a scene of tens of thousands.

But then I recall hearing that this would be a new twoofer tactic. Says a lot about what you think your support level is, Astute.
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:31 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Drudgewire View Post
And yet an awful lot* of you seem to think they give their loyalty to Israel.




*"awful lot" based on percentage of twoofers who use the term "international bankers." In the real world there aren't an "awful lot" of you.
I am not one of those. I can't speak for the people who think such a thing as I believe if it suited them (The Bankers) they would wipe any country off the map including Israel.

Last edited by Astute Perspicuous; 4th December 2007 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:33 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
Since when did it become OUR job to provide "evidence"?

All we are trying to say is that the "official" story is a complete hoax and a "real" investigation is needed.

That is the purpose of a "real" investigation and not the whitewash that was carried out before.
Who do you think should investigate 9/11? Some names, if you don't mind...

Last edited by CHF; 4th December 2007 at 03:34 PM.
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