ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Closed Thread
Old 8th January 2019, 06:12 PM   #2441
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down An insanely stupid and irrelevant "electrostaticly removed" question

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
One wonders if the charged dust is being both electrostaticly removed from the consolidated surface and accelerated in an electric field?
More from Sol88's insane electric comet playbook.

An insanely stupid and irrelevant "electrostaticly removed" question emphasizes Sol88's electric comet insanity.
The charged dust in comet coma is charged by the solar wind and radiation as in the papers Sol88 has cited.

If this is a question about his electric comet insanity and he does not know the answer, it is an "insanely stupid" question.
If this is a question about the mainstream, it is a "insanely irrelevant" question.
The question may be both insanely stupid and insanely irrelevant .

In either case it is an insane question because there is no evidence of an electric field reaching down to the surface of the nucleus. During low activity (no jets as he promised!), the electric fields between charged dust particles theoretically can eject dust to form the coma. The coma than stops that process by shielding the nucleus.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 06:20 PM   #2442
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down "god of the gaps" stupidity which becomes insane when all Sol88 has deluded fantasies

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
But you did read Comet Dust?
More from Sol88's insane electric comet playbook.

"god of the gaps" stupidity which becomes insane when all Sol88 has is set of deluded fantasies.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 06:35 PM   #2443
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Insanity about ambipolar electric fields emphasizes Sol88's electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Regardless if you say or not ambipolar electric fields are causing the jets on comets.
More from Sol88's insane electric comet playbook.

Insanity about ambipolar electric fields emphasizes Sol88's electric comet insanity.
It is the coma that has ambipolar electric fields. They are inside the coma. They are transient, small scale and possibly extremely weak fields.

We observe that comets jets are made of gases, dust grains and ice grains.
Sublimation of icy aggregates in the coma of comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko detected with the OSIRIS cameras on board Rosetta

A child can see that comet jets do not emit much light - they reflect sunlight because they go dark in the shadows of the night side .

The insanity is lying about Sol88's electric comet insanity which has no jets on comets . What he does have is an insane delusion of impossible, invisible and magic electric discharges. Electric discharges are flows of ions or electrons not gases, dust grains and ice grains.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 06:48 PM   #2444
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down An absurd "barrage of sublimation rules" lie emphasizes the electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
But I cannot discusses any further because every time I brought up Double Layers, Birkeland currents and charge separation it’s met with a barrage of sublimation rules therefore none of the electric comets is real.
More from Sol88's insane electric comet playbook.

An absurd "barrage of sublimation rules" lie emphasizes Sol88's electric comet insanity.
Whenever Sol88 brings up his ignorant delusions and even insanity about "Double Layers, Birkeland currents and charge separation", I and other posters reply with textbook physics unrelated to sublimation !
Those ignorant delusions and even insanity is part of which makes Sol88's electric comet insane.

Sol88 has an ignorant delusion that double layers exist at comets when textbook electromagnetism and plasma physics says otherwise. Turbulent magnetic fields as produced by the colliding solar wind and coma destroy layers of charges, i.e. DLs. Sol88 claims structures that are too big to be DLs as DLs.

Sol88 has an ignorant delusion that Birkeland currents exist at comets when they have only been detected at Earth.

Sol88 has the insane delusion that the phrase "charge separation" does magic and the previous stupidity that it is something new for comets or posters do not know about it (comas are plasma!).

Last edited by Reality Check; 8th January 2019 at 06:51 PM.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 06:59 PM   #2445
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Admits to "god of the gaps" stupidity persisting for the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Which is why I started this thread 10 years ago.
More from Sol88's insane electric comet playbook.

Admits to "god of the gaps" stupidity persisting for the last 10 years .
We know now that Sol88 cannot support his electric comet insanity because it is obviously and physically insane. Sol88 is left with Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy), insults, lies.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 07:04 PM   #2446
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays the actually insane "mainstream scientists are coming round" lie card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
But, hey mainstream scientists are coming round, even if armchair crusaders don’t.
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays the actually insane "mainstream scientists are coming round" lie card.
No mainstream scientist is insane enough to think that comets are rocks blasted from planets; by electric discharges between planets; including in recent times; jets are electrical discharges, etc.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 07:09 PM   #2447
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays a basically lie about my posts card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
It’s a rock discharging in the solar electric field.
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays a basically lie about my posts card.
A good thing is that this is the truth about Sol88's electric comet insanity for once! But his recent posts have been about the irrelevant ambipolar electric field and electrostatic electric fields between charges dust particles.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 07:14 PM   #2448
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his insanely irrelevant and ignorant question card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Where are all the extra electrons attached to the dust coming from, jonesdave116?
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his insanely irrelevant and ignorant question card.

The solar wind is full of electrons! The coma is a plasma - more electrons! !

However a possible answer for the negatively charged dust grains detected at 67P is that we do not know where they came from. My impression is that astronomers did not expect dust to collect electrons.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 07:17 PM   #2449
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his insult science and posters card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Simpleton science at its very best.
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his insult science and posters card
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 07:29 PM   #2450
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his gibberish, lies, and delusions card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
It’s filimentry, dear Watson. ...
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his gibberish, lies, and delusions card
Rational people believe in any science because they learn and understand the evidence and theory behind that science. Rational people believe that comets are made of ices and dust because they learn and understand the evidence for this.
Rational people who do not want to learn and understand the evidence and theory behind science, trust people who have learned and understood the science, e.g. textbook authors.

The "filimentry" idiocy looks like the insane Thunderbolts cult dogma that anything that looks filamentary in astronomy images is a Birkeland current.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 07:33 PM   #2451
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,802
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Just for reality checks list.

Electric fields are required for the electric comet.
Were you able to add to your list?

If not be champ if you could.

Charge separation, electric fields, Field aligned currents

If you’d like to round it.

__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 07:35 PM   #2452
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "repeat an insane and irrelevant question again and again" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
You are starting to believe in a non negligible ambipolar electric field at comet 67P?
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "repeat an insane and irrelevant question again and again" card
The insanity starts with Sol88 knows that a non negligible ambipolar electric field at comet 67P was detected. It continues with the basic plasma physics that any plasma can have a ambipolar electric field as he knows. The stupidity of merely writing "non negligible ambipolar electric field" meaning it has something to do with Sol88's electric comet insanity when there is no ambipolar electric field there.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 07:39 PM   #2453
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "abysmally ignorant lies about science" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
There both the same.
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "abysmally ignorant lies about science" card
Plasma is a conducting, partially ionized gas.
Electric discharges are the sudden flow of charges caused by the breakdown of an insulating medium.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 07:48 PM   #2454
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "lie about the insanity he supports" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
As SAFIRE. Has found out.
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "lie about the insanity he supports" card
SAFIRE is the insanity that the Sun is externally powered which anyone with a few brain cells can understand makes the Sun collapse (Astronomy 101: Stars are stable via a balance between thermal pressure and weight which requires an internal heat source).
The SAFIRE insanity has no solar wind such as that at comets. The SAFIR insanity has not found that plasma is the same as discharges.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 07:52 PM   #2455
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "lie about the electric comet insanity" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
But they are not irrelevant and jd116 is kicking up a stink on no viable mechanism.
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "lie about the electric comet insanity" card
The electric fields that Sol88 is obsessing with are irrelevant to Sol88's electric comet insanity because it does not have them. It has an solar electric field.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 07:54 PM   #2456
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "lie about sceince" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Electric fields should not even exist in space plasmas, according to some.
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "lie about science" card
Space plasmas have separated charges and will have interior electric fields.
Space plasmas have ions and electrons and will have interior ambipolar electric fields due to their different mobility.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 07:56 PM   #2457
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Because they do, it’s a game changer.
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "lie about science" card
The electric fields in space plasma are decades old science.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 08:00 PM   #2458
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "lie about science" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Now, models will have take into account plasma circuits, charge seperation, electric fields... you know garden variety plasma physics and electrical engineering.
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "lie about science" card
The models of space plasma already include textbook plasma physics !
Utter stupidity that electrical engineering is about plasma physics or vice versa.

Last edited by Reality Check; 8th January 2019 at 08:42 PM.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 08:10 PM   #2459
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "obviously idiotic and slightly insane question" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
What level of plasma understanding are you?
...
Just so I know how proceed!
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "obviously idiotic and slightly insane question" card
Sol88 is so abysmal ignorant about plasma that he does not know its basic properties. That makes the question slightly insane because proceeding will just get his electric comet insanity, not any actual plasma physics.
  • Plasma conducts so no electric discharges through it.
  • Plasma is quasi neutral and the Debye length gives a limit to the scale of effects.
  • Plasma has ions and electrons with different mobility thus the ambipolar electric field inside plasma.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 08:22 PM   #2460
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "emphasizes his electric comet insanity" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Not sure but we are seeing at 67P as well.

Ions and electrons (negatively charged dust).
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "emphasizes his electric comet insanity" card
Sol88 admits that he cannot explain the motion of ions and electrons at 67P using his electric comet insanity.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 08:28 PM   #2461
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "irrelevant and stupid question" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
What sign is the field jonesdave116?
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "irrelevant and stupid question" card
It is Sol88's electric comet insanity so it is Soll88 who must answer questions about it. For example: What sign do you think it is, if it is accelerating ions outward, and retarding electrons?

Last edited by Reality Check; 8th January 2019 at 08:29 PM.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 08:33 PM   #2462
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "irrelevant and stupid question" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
How do the mainstream do it?
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "irrelevant and stupid question" card
How the mainstream does anything is irrelevant to Sol88's electric comet insanity.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 08:41 PM   #2463
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "lie about science" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Well, they do “run” together don’t they.
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "lie about science" card.
Lukraak_Sisser wrote:
Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
So, the very core of the model you claim to represent, a massive solar electric field, is something you have no clue about as to how it would work.
Nor apparently have given any thought as to how the physics would apply differently in space except where our spacecraft are.
Remember if positive and negative charges were to run in the same direction in an electric field ALL of our electronics would instantly fail.

And your answer is 'gee, plasma must by really funky, rather than, maybe there is no massive magical electric field'
The science is that positive and negative charges cannot run in the same direction in an electric field for the simple reason that F = qE where F is the force, q is the charge and E is the electric field. An electric field gives opposite forces for opposite charges .
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 02:34 AM   #2464
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,802
Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "obviously idiotic and slightly insane question" card
Sol88 is so abysmal ignorant about plasma that he does not know its basic properties. That makes the question slightly insane because proceeding will just get his electric comet insanity, not any actual plasma physics.
  • Plasma conducts so no electric discharges through it.
  • Plasma is quasi neutral and the Debye length gives a limit to the scale of effects.
  • Plasma has ions and electrons with different mobility thus the ambipolar electric field inside plasma.

Dude, we going right back to the start again?

Give me your run down on the field aligned currents (Birkeland currents) in operation at 67P and how that to the above statements.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 03:44 AM   #2465
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,757
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Were you able to add to your list?

If not be champ if you could.

Charge separation, electric fields, Field aligned currents

If you’d like to round it.

No, you need planetary rock, and you need discharges. You have neither, therefore your model has failed. You need OH instead of H2O, therefore your model fails. You don't need thousands of tonnes of ice to be excavated by an impact. Therefore your model fails. Et cetera. You failed. Get over it.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 03:51 AM   #2466
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,757
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Good, I’m happy with the knowledge you know the DC is caused via ion/electron-neutral collisions and there may only possibly be an ambipolar electric field at at 67P but none at Halley.

Could I hazard a guess and say this would be true, no ambipolar electric field at Tempel 1, Wild 2, Borelly, Hartley 2 and Giacobini–Zinner?
Irrelevant. Plenty of volatiles seen at those comets, and thousands of tonnes of ice excavated at one of them, and shed loads floating around another. Fail. And which of those comets has the most elliptical orbit? Halley. Therefore you fail again. That is a long list of fail, isn't it? Care to address it?
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 03:59 AM   #2467
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,757
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Just for reality checks list.

Electric fields are required for the electric comet.
And are present in stronger form at asteroids and inactive comets. What does that tell you?
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 04:59 AM   #2468
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,802
Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
And are present in stronger form at asteroids and inactive comets. What does that tell you?
Tells me you are completely ignorant.

THE ROLE OF ELECTRIC FIELDS IN THE COMETARY ENVIRONMENT

Quote:
Polarization electric fields in the cometary environment are shown to influence both the cometary plasma and the fine cometary dust. In the first part of this paper we will consider the role of the ambipolar electric field on the dynamics and thermodynamics of the cometary ionosphere. In particular, it will be shown that this field would both decelerate and cool the plasma in the outer cometary ionosphere. It is shown that a shock possibly develops in the plasma flow due to this deceleration. In the second part of the paper .'c will consider the consequences of electrostatic charging of the cometary dust. It will be shown that while the consequences are minimal within the cometary ionosphere, they are substantial outside. It will be shown that the convec- tional electric field in the inflowing solar wind (both outside and inside the outer shock), as well as the Coulomb drag of this plasma on the charged dust, will significantly affect the dynamics of the lower end of the dust mass spectrum.
We see it at comets, why don’t we see it at active asteroids?

Oh, wait, never mind we do.

Quote:
In this review presented at the Royal Society meeting, ‘Cometary science after Rosetta’, I present an overview of studies of small solar system objects that exhibit properties of both asteroids and comets (with a focus on so-called active asteroids). Sometimes referred to as ‘transition objects’, these bodies are perhaps more appropriately described as ‘continuum objects’, to reflect the notion that rather than necessarily representing actual transitional evolutionary states between asteroids and comets, they simply belong to the general population of small solar system bodies that happen to exhibit a continuous range of observational, physical and dynamical properties. Continuum objects are intriguing because they possess many of the properties that make classical comets interesting to study (e.g. relatively primitive compositions, ejection of surface and subsurface material into space where it can be more easily studied, and orbital properties that allow us to sample material from distant parts of the solar system that would otherwise be inaccessible), while allowing us to study regions of the solar system that are not sampled by classical comets.
Asteroid–comet continuum objects inthe solar system

So, what is the difference?

Comets were once thought of as mostly ice, you know, but mainstreams understanding has been evolving toward mostly rock since visiting a few comets over the last couple years.

Moot point anyway as asteroids have more h2o than comets. This was one of the first findings from Rosetta. Rosetta Spacecraft's Comet Water Discovery: What It Means for Earth
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

Last edited by Sol88; 9th January 2019 at 05:05 AM.
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 05:53 AM   #2469
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,757
Quote:
So, what is the difference?
The difference is that the vast majority of asteroids are not surrounded by a coma. And they have stronger fields. Just as 67P would have had when it was LEAST active. Try to understand that, and stop talking rubbish.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 05:56 AM   #2470
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,757
Quote:
evolving toward mostly rock since visiting a few comets over the last couple years.
Nope, no rock ever detected at a comet. Density = ~ 530 kg/m3. What is the density of asteroids?
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 12:42 PM   #2471
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "god of the gap/false dichotomy insanity/abysmal ignorance" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Well at comet 67P we have both ions and negatively charged dust coming from the nucleus.
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "god of the gap/false dichotomy insanity/abysmal ignorance" card.
It is not a surprise to people who can think that the complex, turbulent interaction of the solar wind and comet coma will move charges outward from the nucleus. One "twist" in the magnetic fields pushes positive coma ions outward to be detected by Rosetta. A different "twist" in the magnetic fields pushes negative coma dust particles outward to be detected by Rosetta.

Last edited by Reality Check; 9th January 2019 at 12:45 PM.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 12:52 PM   #2472
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "lies about science" card and makes it insane as usual

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Do we see ions coming from the nucleus, yes.

Do see negatively charged dust coming off the nucleus in jets, yes.
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "lies about science" card and makes it insane as usual.
We see ions in the coma moving outward from the nucleus as expected for ions in a turbulent plasma.
An insane "negatively charged dust coming off the nucleus in jets" lie. We detected beams of negatively charged nanograins in the coma going both inward and outward.

Last edited by Reality Check; 9th January 2019 at 01:05 PM.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 01:08 PM   #2473
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "insanely irrelevant question about the mainstream" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
How jonesdave116 in the mainstream sublimating Dirtysnowball?
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "insanely irrelevant question about the mainstream to derail from his electric comet insanity" card
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 01:19 PM   #2474
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "insane lies about science and comets" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Think you’ll find that’s impossible.
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "insane lies about science and comets" card
The first insanity is the "dust" lie. What was detected was nano-grains of ice or dust.

The next insanity is that Sol88 has cited a paper stating the processes producing these nano-grains of ice or dust many times !
Negatively charged nano-grains at 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko
Quote:
In this paper we review the processes that can explain the energization and the directionality of the observed nano-dust populations.
To prevent an insane rant abut gas-drag- this is the gas in the coma dragging the dust.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 01:26 PM   #2475
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "insane lies about science and comets" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Sublimation is untenable.
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "insane lies about science and comets" card
Only insanely stupid or ignorant people would deny the massively well tested properties of ices which includes that they sublimate under the appropriate conditions. It is utterly insane to write that it is untenable that ice (H2O), dry ice (CO2), or methane ice (CH4) will not sublimate on comets.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 01:29 PM   #2476
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,802
Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "lies about science" card and makes it insane as usual.
We see ions in the coma moving outward from the nucleus as expected for ions in a turbulent plasma.
An insane "negatively charged dust coming off the nucleus in jets" lie. We detected beams of negatively charged nanograins in the coma going both inward and outward.
Oh, beams

Keep going rc, your doing a fantastic job. I think you and jonesdave116 should have a little talk.

Seems to be hung up on some old high school electrostatic explanations of ions only being able to go one way electrons the other.

You know simplistic stuff.

Sounds like you have more of a grasp of the complexities.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

Last edited by Sol88; 9th January 2019 at 01:34 PM.
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 01:51 PM   #2477
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "insane belief in obvious insanity about stars" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
I’d most probably look at the ES model of the Sun...
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "insane belief in obvious insanity about stars" card
Insane if only because Sol88 has been told the Astronomy 101 physics that stars need an internal power source to be stable many times.
SAFIRE insanity in addition to his electric comet insanity.
Insane because Sol88 links to a web site listing obvious delusions from Ralph Juergens from 1972 in a crank newsletter .
Immanuel Velikovsky was not deluded enough to fall for Juergens' insanity: "He adhered to internal thermo-nuclear fusion as the secret of the Sun’s radiation"
The page ends with a list of criticisms which omits that Juergens turns the Sun into a white dwarf! The other obvious insanity of the electric sun "we would expect the positively charged sun to repel positively charged protons, and attract negatively charged electrons" but both charges travel away from the Sun !
Tim Thompson (an actual astronomer), “On the ‘Electric Sun’ Hypothesis“ about Donald Scott's Electric Sun insnaity.
The vastly ignorant and deluded about the physics of stars Donald Scott had a "rebuttal" at his web site page (link broken). That was the stupidity of citing an unsupported comment from the insane and documented liar Wal Thornhill.

Last edited by Reality Check; 9th January 2019 at 01:52 PM.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 01:55 PM   #2478
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "insane lies about science" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...postulate that a gas discharge tube would be a good starting point to go from.
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "insane lies about science" card
Gas discharge tubes are not stars !
SAFIRE insanity in addition to his electric comet insanity.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 02:00 PM   #2479
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "insane lying questions about comets" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Well how far does the comet tail extend? Does it remain coherent over these distances? if so why?
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "insane lying questions about comets to derail from his electric comet insanity" card
Sol88 has been utterly deluded about comets for at least 12 years now but must know the basic facts about comets such as tail lengths.
Sol88's usual insanity of asking about mainstream cometary science.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2019, 02:09 PM   #2480
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,927
Thumbs down Sol88 plays his "insane questions about posters knowledge" card

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Do you know much about double layers and Birkeland currents? or indeed what there is an ambipolar electric field at 67P?
Sol88's insane electric comet playbook of ignorance, delusions, idiocy (god of the gaps/false dichotomy/irrelevant mainstream citations), insults, lies.

Sol88 plays his "insane questions about posters knowledge to derail from his electric comet insanity" card
This is that insanity that we have to know mainstream physics when Sol88's electric comet insanity has not physics in it ! Insane and ignorant delusions from the Thunderbolts cult and Sol88 are not physics.

This is the insanity of implying other posters are not able to read and understand the many citations of double layers, Birkeland currents and the ambipolar electric field in this thread.
We know that Sol88 has completely fallen for the obvious insanity in his electric comets. Sol88 is totally unable to read or understand the many citations of double layers, Birkeland currents and the ambipolar electric field in this thread. That does not apply to other posters in this thread.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:10 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.