ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Education
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 25th August 2019, 10:09 PM   #1
Graham2001
Graduate Poster
 
Graham2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,300
California’s proposed new ethnic studies curriculum

If the article linked to below is correct we are looking at a 'Portland African-American Baseline Studies' V2.0



Quote:
”But a current draft of the model curriculum, drawn up by a committee of teachers and academics and headed to the State Board of Education, is an impenetrable melange of academic jargon and politically correct pronouncements. It’s hard to wade through all the references to hxrstory and womxn and misogynoir and cisheteropatriarchy.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/stor...ies-curriculum
__________________
"I need hard facts! Bring in the dowsers!"
'America Unearthed' Season 1, Episode 13: Hunt for the Holy Grail

Everybody gets it wrong sometimes...
Graham2001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 07:14 AM   #2
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,755
I'm not sure what the argument is here:

Quote:
Among other things, the model curriculum lists capitalism with white supremacy and racism as “forms of power and oppression.” OK, but shouldn’t students also hear arguments that capitalism has allowed for an expansion over time of the middle class, or even from those who believe in a laissez-faire, sink-or-swim economy.

Is the point that classes on "laissez-faire, sink-or-swim economy" should also hear arguments listing "capitalism with white supremacy and racism as “forms of power and oppression”"? If that's the case, I'm all for it. Many economy classes are very biased and could benefit considerably from something along those lines.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th August 2019, 01:32 PM   #3
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,575
Originally Posted by dann View Post
I'm not sure what the argument is here:




Is the point that classes on "laissez-faire, sink-or-swim economy" should also hear arguments listing "capitalism with white supremacy and racism as “forms of power and oppression”"? If that's the case, I'm all for it. Many economy classes are very biased and could benefit considerably from something along those lines.
Right, comrade, right.....
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd September 2019, 11:54 PM   #4
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,755
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Right, comrade, right.....

Have you actually never heard about this? An alleged centrist like you?
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th September 2019, 12:54 AM   #5
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,755
OK, so maybe you are afraid of following the link. It linked to this post in another thread:

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Unfortunately that paper focuses on regulatory capture and largely ignores other influences which may have a more insidious effect. In the US one particular rich person is successfully indoctrinating economists with his flawed economic theories:-

Koch Uncovered:
Quote:
In 1974, chair of the Institute for Humane Studies and billionaire businessman Charles Koch said universities “encourage extreme hostility to American business,” and businesses must “[support] only those programs, departments or schools that contribute in some way to our individual companies or to the general welfare of our free enterprise system.

According to Koch’s public tax records, the energy tycoon has donated approximately $95.5 million to Mason since 2005 through the Charles Koch Foundation, his charity organization... Fourth Estate’s investigative team has found that these donations do not come without strings attached.

“At George Mason University, academic research predominantly underwritten by Koch has resulted in professors lobbying on topics related to Koch’s financial interests, including energy issues and state *level politics,”...

One of the lobbyist professors listed in “Koch Brothers’ Higher-Ed Investments Advance Political Goals,” a Center for Public Integrity Article cited by the Unkoch My Campus report, is economics professor Walter Williams. Williams was selected by the 60 Plus Association, a nonprofit funded in part by Koch, to be a member of its “truth squad,” and lobby against Social Security and Medicare expansions....

Some examples of this talent cultivation within IHS can be found in Mayer’s “Dark Money.” Mayer alleges that Charles Koch ordered for “ideology tests” to be done on students at the end of each week to gauge students’ political leanings after seminars at the institute.
And it gets worse:-

Millions of Students Are Quietly Being Taught the Koch Brothers’ Whitewashed Version of Black History
Quote:
Cash-strapped social studies teachers across America have discovered an exciting new resource that provides lesson plans, study materials and even seminars geared toward elementary, middle and high school students.

The lessons are extremely detailed and come with suggestions for activities, multimedia and additional reading. More importantly, unlike many educational tools, most of these materials are provided free of cost. There’s only one catch: It’s right-wing brainwashing

Almost every lesson plan stresses the conservative idea of the limited role of government...
'The rich' certainly are doing their best to perpetuate a systematic bias in economics. And it was going well too, until someone threw a spanner in the works

Quote:
Koch Brothers Very Angry About “Rigged System” That Favors Giant Corporations Over Ordinary People

Donald Trump’s tariffs suddenly have them sounding like a pair of born-again socialists.

In an op-ed in The Washington Post, Charles very earnestly argues that tariffs are bad because, he explains in a passage that prompted me to audibly gasp, they perpetuate a "rigged system" in which moneyed interests use their influence to promote policies that are not in the public interest...

Ignore the fact that the Kochs spent some $250 million in the 2016 election cycle on candidates and causes who will make their business ventures more profitable. Or that their network has announced plans to blow $400 million on the 2018 midterms, including $20 million toward arguing that Paul Ryan's donor-appeasing tax-reform bill is a good thing for voters who are not handsomely compensated corporate board members. Or that the brothers already wrote a $494,000 check to Paul Ryan after the House passed the bill last year.
Not all rich people promote flawed economic theories for their own benefit, but those that do can have much greater influence than unbiased economists.

Quote:
Can anyone imagine an American Picketty?
We do have economists who know what they are talking about, but no one listens to them. We are all either brainwashed with 'free market' ideology or reacting against it (sometimes both at the same time).

Quote:
There is no shortage of public criticism of economics. There is even fundamental criticism about the nature of capitalism and such. What is conspicuously absent is any kind of disciplined skepticism.
Disciplined skepticism is conspicuously absent in most fields. But economics suffers particularly because:-

1. It affects us personally and immediately, therefore,

2. We all have a vested interest in its upkeep so,

3. Everybody thinks they know how to make it better, even though they have no clue, and

4. Even economists aren't sure how it works, because

5. It's largely based on the 'random' behavior of individuals, and

6. Performing experiments on a running economy has ethical and practical problems.

Quote:
In economics I see that there is an incentive to produce good microeconomics which has practical use within companies. But as for macroeconomics, I only see an incentive to produce arguments and not facts
There is an incentive to produce good macroeconomics too, but it's hard. People generally prefer simple easy solutions, even when they are wrong. And unlike easier fields like quantum physics, you can't just trot out a mathematical formula and prove it with a nice simple lab experiment.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th October 2019, 06:26 PM   #6
Roger Ramjets
Illuminator
 
Roger Ramjets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,164
Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
If the article linked to below is correct...
The evidence for its correctness is weak. For example,

Quote:
For example, if students decide they want to advocate for voting rights for undocumented immigrant residents at the school district and city elections, they can develop arguments in favor of such a city ordinance and then plan a meeting with their city council person or school board member.”

No problem with that per se, and community engagement is a fine way to involve students in politics and civic life. But there is no mention here — or just about anywhere in the curriculum — of students who might dare to disagree with the party line.
Someone doesn't seem to know what 'for example' means. It doesn't exclude other possibilities.

But hey, perhaps 'ethnic studies' should consider the values of what is soon to become the largest minority group - overprivileged white males.

Quote:
Among other things, the model curriculum lists capitalism with white supremacy and racism as “forms of power and oppression.” OK, but shouldn’t students also hear arguments that capitalism has allowed for an expansion over time of the middle class, or even from those who believe in a laissez-faire, sink-or-swim economy.
Don't worry, The Times Editorial Board, I'm sure they will discuss it. Then students can decide whether some of them are actually 'very fine people' and empathize with their plight (it's not easy being a money-grubbing racist in today's society - everybody is so PC!).
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.
Roger Ramjets is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th October 2019, 06:12 AM   #7
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,755
I'm awaiting a repeat performance of the striking argument from dudalb:

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Right, comrade, right.....

__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2019, 04:43 PM   #8
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,755
I'm loving the liberal use of the highlighter here
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 05:54 PM   #9
AlaskaBushPilot
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,181
I've written elsewhere about old school apprenticeships, which my kids are doing, and capitalism.

Already at 8 and 9 they are contractors, not wage laborers. They own capital equipment: four-wheeler, snow machine, chain saw, axe, ropes, chains, block and tackle-

So they can sell the product, not work for an hourly wage. Together, they're worth about $300 a day working together in the woods at present.

Hopefully you know, ten years from now when my little construction contractor apprentice has been doing it for 12 years, he can apply for a job at McDonald's or Wal Mart.

We are super confident about their future, and so are they. Because they are not imprisoned in one of those retard factories.
AlaskaBushPilot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Education

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:11 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.