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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 22nd April 2018, 06:06 PM   #2481
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

Itís obstruction, then it isnít obstruction because Trumps too dumb to pull off obstruction.

Thanks guys, this is truly fun to read.
Clearly Trump didn't know what obstruction of justice was when he went around asking law enforcement officers to look the other way and then admitting it on National Television with Lester Holt. Bill Clinton went to law school and would know IF you're going to do that, best not broadcast it.

You can argue many things, but even you have to conclude Trump's actions weren't very smart.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 06:31 PM   #2482
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I think Giuliani like Christie and Scaramouchi (sp?) are Trump groupies. They still want to be in the in-crowd. It sounds like Giuliani told Trump he could get the Mueller investigation stopped. Trump is out of lawyer options, and the rest of the story ensues.
I have wondered about the motivations of some of these folks. Are there true believer Trump groupies among his higher level public supporters?

A lot of these folks spit out lies so transparent that it seems unlikely that they could believe the lies themselves. Maybe this is just an artifact of partisan thought. It can displace critical thinking and introspection? Or are these just cynical people who have attained a skill at spitting out partisan blather that various Trump supporting groups want to hear?

A theory is that Christie was payed a crap load to come on board of Trump's campaign. If he did it just for the possibility of a high level appointment he was pretty calm when that didn't happen. I don't have much of a Giuliani theory. I understand I think Trump's idea. Giuliani will serve as an attack dog on Fox News and he will provide support for Trump's craziness from a well know individual, other people will do the day to day lawyer stuff. I don't know what's motivating Giuliani. The money? One more moment of the publicity that he craves? Is Hannity a true believer? He spouts the craziest theories and seems completely uncoupled to the idea that truth is a good thing. Is this just partisan biases or is this well thought out cynicism?
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Old 22nd April 2018, 06:49 PM   #2483
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Originally Posted by davefoc View Post
I have wondered about the motivations of some of these folks. Are there true believer Trump groupies among his higher level public supporters?

A lot of these folks spit out lies so transparent that it seems unlikely that they could believe the lies themselves. Maybe this is just an artifact of partisan thought. It can displace critical thinking and introspection? Or are these just cynical people who have attained a skill at spitting out partisan blather that various Trump supporting groups want to hear?

A theory is that Christie was payed a crap load to come on board of Trump's campaign. If he did it just for the possibility of a high level appointment he was pretty calm when that didn't happen. I don't have much of a Giuliani theory. I understand I think Trump's idea. Giuliani will serve as an attack dog on Fox News and he will provide support for Trump's craziness from a well know individual, other people will do the day to day lawyer stuff. I don't know what's motivating Giuliani. The money? One more moment of the publicity that he craves? Is Hannity a true believer? He spouts the craziest theories and seems completely uncoupled to the idea that truth is a good thing. Is this just partisan biases or is this well thought out cynicism?
Hi, welcome back to the forum.

IMO, Trump appears to have been a social magnate, if you are invited to parties Trump is at, if you know him and can name drop, if you get to hang out with him or are invited to a soiree he's at, you get Brownie points to put in your social hat.

He's very sociable because Trump is looking for the same thing, bragging rights to being the guy everyone wants to be around.

Look at those Fox idiots around him, Kudlow looks ecstatic to be at the big boy's table.

Honeymoons don't last long, Trump ***** on anyone if it is convenient. But some of them, like Christie, come back for more. Both Giuliani and Christie no doubt, have kissed a lot of Trump ass before. I'm sure there has been money falling out of Trump's pockets at strategic moments.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 06:58 PM   #2484
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Clearly Trump didn't know what obstruction of justice was when he went around asking law enforcement officers to look the other way and then admitting it on National Television with Lester Holt. Bill Clinton went to law school and would know IF you're going to do that, best not broadcast it.

You can argue many things, but even you have to conclude Trump's actions weren't very smart.
Which is why he wonít be impeached and certainly not removed from office.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 07:48 PM   #2485
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Originally Posted by davefoc View Post
I have wondered about the motivations of some of these folks. Are there true believer Trump groupies among his higher level public supporters?

A lot of these folks spit out lies so transparent that it seems unlikely that they could believe the lies themselves.

They don't. Not most of them, at least. I'm not so sure about Trump.

Quote:
Maybe this is just an artifact of partisan thought. It can displace critical thinking and introspection?

I think that's a good description of the people they are speaking to.

Quote:
Or are these just cynical people who have attained a skill at spitting out partisan blather that various Trump supporting groups want to hear?

<snip>

No particular skill is required. The last few years have made it clear that when speaking to their right wing-nut supporters they can say almost anything at all with complete impunity. Their intended audience will lap it up. And they don't give a damn about anyone else.

All the deflection that seems to be needed anymore are vague references to "fake news" and the "leebral meedjuh". They don't even bother with defending any claims they make. Just ignore any criticism and continue, or at most ignore and let it drop, and then bring it up again after a little cooling off time* has gone by.

*An interval which seems to be shrinking.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 07:50 PM   #2486
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Originally Posted by davefoc View Post
I have wondered about the motivations of some of these folks. Are there true believer Trump groupies among his higher level public supporters?

A lot of these folks spit out lies so transparent that it seems unlikely that they could believe the lies themselves. Maybe this is just an artifact of partisan thought. It can displace critical thinking and introspection? Or are these just cynical people who have attained a skill at spitting out partisan blather that various Trump supporting groups want to hear?

A theory is that Christie was payed a crap load to come on board of Trump's campaign. If he did it just for the possibility of a high level appointment he was pretty calm when that didn't happen. I don't have much of a Giuliani theory. I understand I think Trump's idea. Giuliani will serve as an attack dog on Fox News and he will provide support for Trump's craziness from a well know individual, other people will do the day to day lawyer stuff. I don't know what's motivating Giuliani. The money? One more moment of the publicity that he craves? Is Hannity a true believer? He spouts the craziest theories and seems completely uncoupled to the idea that truth is a good thing. Is this just partisan biases or is this well thought out cynicism?
Trump doesn't pay well. Christie was supposed to be the VP, and I think that's why he kissed ass. Guiliani probably wants to be Attorney General. Mitt Romney endured public humiliation just for a chance at Secretary of State. Hannity and Limbaugh follow their audiences as much as lead them.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 08:10 PM   #2487
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

Itís obstruction, then it isnít obstruction because Trumps too dumb to pull off obstruction.

Thanks guys, this is truly fun to read.
LOL, nope, that's not how it works; incompetence is no defense for obstruction of justice. Any attempt at obstruction is obstruction, even if it's completely boneheaded.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 09:44 PM   #2488
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
LOL, nope, that's not how it works; incompetence is no defense for obstruction of justice. Any attempt at obstruction is obstruction, even if it's completely boneheaded.
Lol

Sure worked for gross negligence of handling classified material.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 09:57 PM   #2489
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

Sure worked for gross negligence of handling classified material.
The conversation was about obstruction. Whatever standards apply to different laws are different because it isn't the same law.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 10:15 PM   #2490
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

Sure worked for gross negligence of handling classified material.
Lol, that's not what this thread is about.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
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Old 22nd April 2018, 11:15 PM   #2491
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Trump doesn't pay well. Christie was supposed to be the VP, and I think that's why he kissed ass. Guiliani probably wants to be Attorney General. Mitt Romney endured public humiliation just for a chance at Secretary of State. Hannity and Limbaugh follow their audiences as much as lead them.
I don't disagree with anything you said here, but even well informed guessing is not the same thing as knowing. Christie was a key player for Trump. I think he might have been the first main stream supporter at a time when it looked like he might not attract any. Maybe Christie's main motivation as you suggest was being offered the possibility of the VP slot. Before this my impression of Christie was that he was a routine moderate Republican from a state where the more strident conservatives that seem to control the party now couldn't have won. And all of a sudden he is supporting one of the biggest whack jobs ever to run for the presidency. That seems like a big ideological swing. I guess the idea here is that for Christie ideology was never much of a driver and he could change directions in an instant when he saw opportunity. Still I suspect significant money (at least from Christie's perspective) moved in Christie's direction or he wouldn't have done it.

Pence may have been the biggest hypocrite in all this. A big promoter of conservative Christian ideals jumps on board with a wildly dishonest, corrupt and morally decrepit individual because his particular brand of lying seems to be catching on with Pence type voters.

The arc of Giuliani's career is a bit like that of Christie's except that in addition to the transition from moderate Republican to a Republican hyper partisan supporting the most conservative elements in the party he seems to have become a bit mentally off as he has aged.

I don't know of any interviews where any of the men I mentioned above have ever candidly discussed their motivations. If they did it might ruin their careers. But maybe the answer is the one I would prefer not to believe, high level politicians are just very cynical people who are driven by their own self interest.
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Old Yesterday, 03:19 AM   #2492
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I just want to memorialise the fact that logger is now on record as agreeing that Trump's actions haven't been very smart.
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Old Yesterday, 05:36 AM   #2493
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I just want to memorialise the fact that logger is now on record as agreeing that Trump's actions haven't been very smart.
Some of his actions.

Iím also on record posting that he is a rogue. Oh my!
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Old Yesterday, 05:44 AM   #2494
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Some of his actions.
I'd be interested in hearing which of his actions you do consider to be very smart.
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Old Yesterday, 11:42 AM   #2495
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Originally Posted by davefoc View Post
I don't disagree with anything you said here, but even well informed guessing is not the same thing as knowing.
Well, of course. People may not even be aware of their own motivations. Self-deception is a powerful force, and I'd guess it plays a bigger in our actions than most people assume.

Quote:
Christie was a key player for Trump. I think he might have been the first main stream supporter at a time when it looked like he might not attract any. Maybe Christie's main motivation as you suggest was being offered the possibility of the VP slot. Before this my impression of Christie was that he was a routine moderate Republican from a state where the more strident conservatives that seem to control the party now couldn't have won. And all of a sudden he is supporting one of the biggest whack jobs ever to run for the presidency. That seems like a big ideological swing.
But this seems pretty common for Republicans with national ambitions (e.g., governor Romney to presidential candidate Romney). Politicians notoriously become change with the wind. In the case of Giuliani, I think he was friends with Trump for awhile.

Quote:
I don't know of any interviews where any of the men I mentioned above have ever candidly discussed their motivations. If they did it might ruin their careers. But maybe the answer is the one I would prefer not to believe, high level politicians are just very cynical people who are driven by their own self interest.
One that you didn't mention was Newt Gingrich (as detestable as he is ambitious).
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Old Yesterday, 11:45 AM   #2496
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Originally Posted by davefoc View Post
I don't disagree with anything you said here, but even well informed guessing is not the same thing as knowing. Christie was a key player for Trump. I think he might have been the first main stream supporter at a time when it looked like he might not attract any. Maybe Christie's main motivation as you suggest was being offered the possibility of the VP slot. Before this my impression of Christie was that he was a routine moderate Republican from a state where the more strident conservatives that seem to control the party now couldn't have won. And all of a sudden he is supporting one of the biggest whack jobs ever to run for the presidency. That seems like a big ideological swing. I guess the idea here is that for Christie ideology was never much of a driver and he could change directions in an instant when he saw opportunity. Still I suspect significant money (at least from Christie's perspective) moved in Christie's direction or he wouldn't have done it.
Christie's political reputation was in the gutter before the whole Trump bandwagon came rolling along. His name was pretty much worthless in New Jersey and I doubt he had much future in politics. Jumping on board with Trump may have been just a move of desperation.
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