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Tags bigfoot , cryptozoology , mufon , ufos

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Old 12th November 2009, 06:32 AM   #121
fleabeetle
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
There is no way in hell that this forum will be able to show you that the paranormal Bigfoot does not exist. You've lurked here and BFF long enough to know about the best that skepticism can come up with.

One thing we do have in common. We both would say that if BF exists as a F&B creature, it should have been biologically confirmed by now (body, body part, bones, etc). Because it has never at any time yielded any flesh or bone in any manner - it really isn't out there.

I think at this moment you are the only person posting on JREF who believes in the paranormal Bigfoot. We've had others but they got banned.
As in reply to AMM -- sorry for long silence -- "stuff getting in way".

Well... I realise that -- to paraphrase the BFF posting guidelines -- I shouldn't expect, here, to find many in my camp; but, WP, I sense from you, something pretty-well next door to hatred. It isn't reciprocal: since discovering JREF, I've enjoyed your posts and admired your learning -- irrespective of our different takes on things.

Hope that I'm wrong -- that you're responding, somewhat vigorously, to the contents of my head, rather than... Anyhow...
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Old 12th November 2009, 08:54 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by fleabeetle View Post
WP, I sense from you, something pretty-well next door to hatred. It isn't reciprocal: since discovering JREF, I've enjoyed your posts and admired your learning -- irrespective of our different takes on things.

I don't feel any hatred. It's more like, "Again? You mean there is yet another person who thinks that Bigfoot is a paranormal entity?"

Quote:
I shouldn't expect, here, to find many in my camp;

You will find paranormal believers on this forum. There are probably more of them posting on subjects other than Bigfoot. You might even find ghost believers who think that Bigfoot is totally mythical. Paranormal Bigfooters? As I said, they come and go. I think we may also have some resident F&B Bigfooters who also think that ETs are visiting our planet.

I'm not sure what the fallback position would be if skeptical talk (JREF) somehow did convince a paranormal Bigfooter that they are wrong. Would they retreat to "Ok then. It's simply a flesh animal after all."? Or, do they go all the way to "Bigfoot ain't out there as an entity in any form. Pure myth."?
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Old 12th November 2009, 11:02 PM   #123
AtomicMysteryMonster
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Originally Posted by fleabeetle View Post
In general -- sorry about no response for so long -- "things intervened".
Not a problem.

Quote:
(I was largely, and likely ill-advisedly, jesting about the red panda "job".)
Oops. The sad thing is, plenty of people have made similarly bizarre arguments in complete seriousness around here.

Quote:
Most interesting presentation (a few of the links given proved unavailable, at least to me).
Crud. That material is somewhat old and might have been since taken down, so you might want to try running the non-working stuff through archive.org

Quote:
Some BF proponents are, from what I have (skimming-wise, I admit) read on Net sites, learned about this aspect of the matter – however sound or unsound their premises / conclusions might be – and could, it would seem, eloquently argue their corner, re specific track examples.
Here are the basic type of responses I've gotten:

"Okay, so sometimes bears tracks can resemble Bigfoot tracks. So what?"

"Nobody could mistake a bear track for a Bigfoot track!"

"Those don't match!"

"Overlaid bear tracks are obvious and could never be misidentified."

"Could a bear overlay tracks like that for _____ miles?"

"There's no way [Respected Bigfoot proponent] could make that mistake. Besides, they're much more qualified than you are"

and finally...

[Proponent tries to change subject]

Quote:
The material here, falls short of selling me on the certainty or near-certainty, of ALL “Bigfoot” tracks encountered, being the result of misidentification.
Well, I was going to pipe in about hoaxers, but...

Quote:
If the only evidence for BF’s existence given by proponents, were the tracks (i.e. no sighting reports), I’d be much inclined to be convinced that it was, invariably, bears or other creatures (including hoaxers); but of course, that is getting into plain silly realms – whilst people can be very strange, it’s reasonable to opine that there would not be many passionate Bigfoot believers, if the whole idea rested solely on the footprints.
While I agree that sightings and visual material (such as the Patterson Gimlin film) do play a big role in roping people into Sasquatch belief, I feel that it is the idea of the creature that keeps them believing. I once saw an OnDemand video from Paranormal TV featuring a bunch of proponents in the wilderness on an "expedition." Every noise in the woods became "evidence" of Bigfoot to them and every bush had a Bigfoot hiding behind it.

I'm also reminded of how Ivan Sanderson got suckered by some hoaxed non-Bigfoot tracks. Despite the hoaxers only creating tracks, sightings reports trickled in.

Come to think of it, a similar comparison could be made with the idea that alien spacecrafts create crop circles...

Quote:
To be frank, probably nothing. In my perception, a great deal of the time people opine what they want to opine,and -- if same, is their bent -- rope in logical argument after the event, to support their already-chosen view. (If one's clever enough at logic-chopping, one can make a cogent case for or against anything.) Folk's being "converted" via such logical argument, is fairly rare. Once again -- feeling this way, I am, likely, on JREF under false pretences.
Well, at least you're honest about it.
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Old 13th November 2009, 11:19 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I think we may also have some resident F&B Bigfooters who also think that ETs are visiting our planet.
May?

SweatyYeti's STS-48 Shuttle Mission UFO thread.

SweatyYeti's Martian Civilization Evidence Thread
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Old 13th November 2009, 11:46 AM   #125
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It is unfortunate the Bigelow is mixed up with the UFO crowd. They have had some success with their spacecraft and it looked like they were headed in the right direction for space tourism.
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Old 14th November 2009, 12:34 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I don't feel any hatred. It's more like, "Again? You mean there is yet another person who thinks that Bigfoot is a paranormal entity?"
Fine, and my thanks. Apologies for my thin-skinned-ness -- no wonder I don't fit in very well on BFF.

Quote:
You will find paranormal believers on this forum. There are probably more of them posting on subjects other than Bigfoot. You might even find ghost believers who think that Bigfoot is totally mythical. Paranormal Bigfooters? As I said, they come and go. I think we may also have some resident F&B Bigfooters who also think that ETs are visiting our planet.

I'm not sure what the fallback position would be if skeptical talk (JREF) somehow did convince a paranormal Bigfooter that they are wrong. Would they retreat to "Ok then. It's simply a flesh animal after all."? Or, do they go all the way to "Bigfoot ain't out there as an entity in any form. Pure myth."?
In general – there are any number of permutations / combinations re “what is, or might be, what”. There are some who entertain the possibility of there being both purely-flesh-and-blood Bigfoots (in habitats where such could conceivably exist); and paranormal / spectral ones (e.g., as reported occasionally in the UK, my country – which is one of the least likely places on earth, to support an undiscovered breeding population of flesh-and-blood giant ape-men.)

I am in the main, the classic “woolly ‘don’t-know’ “ who is the despair of those who run opinion-polls. Am not a passionate believer in “paranormal Bigfoot” – just feel that this seems the least unlikely, of several definitely-unlikely scenarios – but who knows? Perhaps the explanation is yet another one, so far unconceived of by anyone on earth?
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Old 14th November 2009, 12:54 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by AtomicMysteryMonster View Post
Crud. That material is somewhat old and might have been since taken down, so you might want to try running the non-working stuff through archive.org
Will give that a try, time and opportunity allowing. Hopes for success, rather low -- I don't do too well with computers. (One of various ways in which I likely belong more in 1409, than 2009.)

Quote:
Here are the basic type of responses I've gotten:

"Okay, so sometimes bears tracks can resemble Bigfoot tracks. So what?"

"Nobody could mistake a bear track for a Bigfoot track!"

"Those don't match!"

"Overlaid bear tracks are obvious and could never be misidentified."

"Could a bear overlay tracks like that for _____ miles?"

"There's no way [Respected Bigfoot proponent] could make that mistake. Besides, they're much more qualified than you are"

and finally...

[Proponent tries to change subject]
Some proponents' propoundings are feeble, as you illustrate, I'm sure. Re the footprint issue, others strike me as having done their homework very well. Whether what they present, is actually "nonsense erudition" (in parallel terms to learned and diligently-worked-at calculations re the extraction of sunbeams from cucumbers) -- to be candid, figuring that out for myself, from the abundant material available, would be a long, arduous project from which I'd likely shrink.

Quote:
While I agree that sightings and visual material (such as the Patterson Gimlin film) do play a big role in roping people into Sasquatch belief, I feel that it is the idea of the creature that keeps them believing. I once saw an OnDemand video from Paranormal TV featuring a bunch of proponents in the wilderness on an "expedition." Every noise in the woods became "evidence" of Bigfoot to them and every bush had a Bigfoot hiding behind it.

I'm also reminded of how Ivan Sanderson got suckered by some hoaxed non-Bigfoot tracks. Despite the hoaxers only creating tracks, sightings reports trickled in.

Come to think of it, a similar comparison could be made with the idea that alien spacecrafts create crop circles...
There are certainly a lot of Bigfoot believers / proponents, who are decidedly odd in the way you cite (no doubt they’re mostly, perfectly normal / functional in other aspects of their lives) – not least, in the thing of their seeing “Bigfoot behind every bush”; but being strangely timorous about actually following up, supposed first-hand experience of the creature: which according to the lore, while not over-keen on humans, almost always stops short of actual physical violence toward them. Conclusion is unavoidable, that for a lot of people it IS largely about playing elaborate head-games with themselves / each other. My feeling, though, is that even if 90%-plus of it is basically dross and nonsense; seemingly enough keeps on happening, to suggest that SOMETHING in it all, may be real or “semi-real”.
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Old 21st November 2009, 09:51 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by fleabeetle View Post
Some proponents' propoundings are feeble, as you illustrate, I'm sure.
Sorry for the late reply! I should note that I was focusing on "rebuttals" and left out the positive feedback I got from a few proponents. In fact, that (and other skeptical info provided by myself) moved them to a fence-sitting or skeptical view on the existence of Bigfoot.

Quote:
Re the footprint issue, others strike me as having done their homework very well.
Which arguments/what people would that be?

Quote:
There are certainly a lot of Bigfoot believers / proponents, who are decidedly odd in the way you cite (no doubt they’re mostly, perfectly normal / functional in other aspects of their lives) – not least, in the thing of their seeing “Bigfoot behind every bush”;
I agree, but that wasn't quite the point I was trying to make. I was trying to provide examples of people believing in something (Bigfoot, alien crafts making prints in fields, giant penguins, etc.) without actually seeing anything other than prints.

Quote:
My feeling, though, is that even if 90%-plus of it is basically dross and nonsense; seemingly enough keeps on happening, to suggest that SOMETHING in it all, may be real or “semi-real”.
You might want to Google the phrase "homicide gremlin"...
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Old 7th February 2016, 08:06 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
Well, there is certainly an element of plausibility. Ball lightening has been created in lab conditions with high voltage electricity and silica. I guess this could happen in an area with high silica soils struck by lightening, but I doubt high tension power lines wold be a factor. Unless they're so old that they are falling apart and arcing all over the place.
Just watched the James Randi documentary on Netflix and it reminded me about this pegusus award Randi (I felt) unfairly attributed to Skinwalker.

Yes to answer your question, the power lines appear to be acting faulty and arcs have been witnessed. There is a loud crackling noise unlike any I have ever heard at any powerline elsewhere (I'm not a powerline expert or even technician, but it because clear something is being overloaded or not operating correctly there). Could it be reacting with the silica? its plausible... Something out there unique really is happening, and I'm open to wherever the truth may lead.

All the great scam artists were put to the test and proven to be hoaxes. This one has never been put to any unbiased test (other than by Bigelow's scientists....well I guess they came in with a bias). My last trip out there was in October and I had several typical unexplainable encounters. The Ranch is still active. Also I've recently learned the agencies involved with Bigelow in regards to a government contract to study the ranch were the Department of Defense and the Department of Navy. The two apparently were at odds and it was not a collaborative effort. I hate pointing out this tidbit as I have ZERO tangible evidence to prove this piece of knowledge (other than personal conversations I've had with people I'm now convinced worked on this project during the NIDs time period) Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (the reborn NIDs division at Bigelow Aerospace) now handles all studies at the ranch. Since the Obama administration the government contracts were cancelled and security/researchers, and administrators have been scaled back significantly in hiatus of the contracts renewal. Bigelow may be a BILLIONAIRE but he didn't become one by being a fool, he was utilizing the goverments money to fund the research. Furthermore it worked out for the government as they were not directly funding a paranormal project soas not to be held accountable, they were funding Bigelow Aerospace a private organization that is not required to turn over any paperwork to the American public regarding its private corporate activities.

Last edited by skinwalker; 7th February 2016 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 30th May 2017, 10:58 AM   #130
William Parcher
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NASA partner Robert Bigelow says he is 'absolutely convinced' aliens are currently living on Earth

Originally Posted by The Independent
One of NASA’s partners has said that he is “absolutely convinced” aliens exist – and that they are living on Earth right now.

Robert Bigelow, an entrepreneur who is working closely with NASA on future space missions, has suggested that he knows that our planet has an alien presence that is “right under our noses”.

Mr Bigelow made the announcement during an episode of the show 60 Minutes that focused on his work with the space agency...

“There has been and is an existing presence, an ET presence,” Mr Bigelow said. “And I spent millions and millions and millions – I probably spent more as an individual than anybody else in the United States has ever spent on this subject.”

Reporter Lara Logan then asked if Mr Bigelow thought it was “risky” to say that he believes such things. He said that he doesn't care what people think because it wouldn't “change the reality of what I know”...
Whacked out woo dude is a billionaire developer. Oh, and Bigfoot on his property and Skinwalkers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-a7763441.html
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Old 30th May 2017, 11:02 AM   #131
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What the hell ever happened to Atomic Mystery Monster?
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Old 30th May 2017, 02:35 PM   #132
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What happened when Tiktaalik went to the ranch? I wanted to hear a first hand account of how a skeptic turned into a believer.
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Old 31st May 2017, 09:16 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
NASA partner Robert Bigelow says he is 'absolutely convinced' aliens are currently living on Earth


Whacked out woo dude is a billionaire developer. Oh, and Bigfoot on his property and Skinwalkers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-a7763441.html
He's more living proof having a bunch of money doesn't make you smarter no matter how many times you count it.
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Old 31st May 2017, 11:32 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
He's more living proof having a bunch of money doesn't make you smarter no matter how many times you count it.
Couple of geniuses discussing this individual over at the BFF on the "Abandoned" thread.
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Old 31st May 2017, 02:08 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by fleabeetle View Post
As in reply to AMM -- sorry for long silence -- "stuff getting in way".

Well... I realise that -- to paraphrase the BFF posting guidelines -- I shouldn't expect, here, to find many in my camp; but, WP, I sense from you, something pretty-well next door to hatred. It isn't reciprocal: since discovering JREF, I've enjoyed your posts and admired your learning -- irrespective of our different takes on things.

Hope that I'm wrong -- that you're responding, somewhat vigorously, to the contents of my head, rather than... Anyhow...
The contents of your head have no bearing on anything unless they are proven in an absolute manner. BF has nothing to support it except made up feces
and sad mental beliefs without reason for those beliefs.
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Old 1st June 2017, 12:40 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
He's more living proof having a bunch of money doesn't make you smarter no matter how many times you count it.
I find it odd that people give credence to random rich fellas who believe in aliens, lol. Many people seem to believe in such things, yet if you're rich, well-known, or have some sort of important job, people give you credence for believing in weird things.

"I know this bloke who says he saw a ghost, he's a policeman, too."

I've never got why people are so floored by this kind of thing.
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Old 4th April 2018, 08:46 PM   #137
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If anyone still has interest in this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9_Xt8JvBIc
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Old 8th April 2018, 08:53 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by bryan View Post
Bigelow has not only started working with MUFON, but they have hired field teams to respond to "U.F.O. incidents" with Bigelow funded air travel, vehicles, and "response equipment" to document reported U.F.O. sightings, and collect "Evidence".
Many of the U.F.O. nuts that have been involved in MUFON are now bragging about how they are professional U.F.O. Investigators.
Bigelow has also been a supporter of the Denver E.T. Commission and all of it's supporters.
When you look at the people involved it is a mix of related groups working as different companies (Bigelow, MUFON,The Disclosure Project, The Orion Project, CsETI, U.F.O. ThinkTank, and many more)
It all comes down to believers trying to prove something without any evidence.
Steven Hawiking said it best "I am discounting reports or U.F.O.'s. Why would they appear only to cranks and weirdos? If there is a government conspiracy to suppress the reports and keep for itself the scientific knowledge the aliens bring, it seems to have been a singularly ineffective policy so far".
That's not very objective, opened minded or critical of you. Is name calling the best you got?
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Old 8th April 2018, 11:52 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
That's not very objective, opened minded or critical of you. Is name calling the best you got?
Steven Hawking is unavailable for a reply.
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Old 8th April 2018, 12:02 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Steven Hawking is unavailable for a reply.
Stephen
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Old 8th April 2018, 02:28 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Stephen
Him too.
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Old 8th April 2018, 10:39 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Him too.
Steven isn't really much of a thinker but he is a pretty fine sprinter...
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Old 11th April 2018, 10:49 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
He's more living proof having a bunch of money doesn't make you smarter no matter how many times you count it.
We've got ample proof of that occupying the White House.
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Old 12th April 2018, 08:31 PM   #144
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I've read the book about the Skinwalker Ranch; I will say it was an entertaining and enjoyable read because while I don't subscribe to theories of the paranormal, I do find stories involving UFOs that are clearly not "alien spaceships", and monsters that are clearly not "missing link" ape-men, and other such high strangeness to be vastly more interesting than run-of-the-mill woo.

I will say that I see people on the internet putting far too much into the "skinwalker" thing, far more than does Bigelow himself (or Knapp, at least). In the book the mention of skinwalkers and their Navajo/Ute connection is brought up and explained, but as more of a framing device - that is, it seems to me that Knapp is suggesting the local Indian population he alleges avoids the ranch because they "know about" the weird stuff that supposedly happens on it, have attributed the phenomena to a "skinwalker" because that's the best explanation they could come up with that fits their worldview. Whatever Knapp and Bigelow believe is responsible for the goings-on, it seems pretty clear they don't believe it actually involves bad Native medicine-men.
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Old 13th April 2018, 07:33 PM   #145
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For the record, I met Bigelow in the late 1990's. Back then I was a CT/UFO/ Purveyor of Woo, and in walks this guy to my store where I worked in the hobby section. The Area 51 Lazaar UFO had just been released by Testors to compliment their line of speculative "Black Project Aircraft", which they had a lot of success with back then starting with the "F-19" kit, which flew off the shelves.

Anyhoo, this guy (Bigelow ) is in the model section, and he asks me about the UFO kit (which I'd already built), and the conversation drifted to UFO's. When he found out I was a believer he just went on and one about all kinds of stuff; some which I'd heard, and some I had not.

He ended up buying something, and he paid with his credit card, and later when his team bought Skinwalker Ranch I remembered the name.

I don't know why I feel like I have to tell you all this other than he was a nice guy, and I think that if he wants to spend his money hiring real scientists to research his beliefs I say more power too him.
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Old 28th June 2018, 07:04 PM   #146
HarryHenderson
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I've read the book about the Skinwalker Ranch; I will say it was an entertaining and enjoyable read...<brevity snip>...Whatever Knapp and Bigelow believe is responsible for the goings-on, it seems pretty clear they don't believe it actually involves bad Native medicine-men.
I think the simple fact it was nicknamed Skinwalker Ranch™ gave it that extra something to become more mainstream. "WTF is a Skinwalker? IDK but it sounds mean and nasty." Had they left the name (say) The Sherman Ranch Mysteries, likely nobody would have given a **** about it.
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