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Tags big cats , cats , cryptozoology , Scotland incidents

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Old 1st August 2009, 09:13 AM   #281
Akhenaten
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Originally Posted by learner View Post
Is that man at the back a "FILF"?

That's more of a personal choice than a matter of definition. Whatever rocks your boat really.

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Old 1st August 2009, 09:29 AM   #282
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Well, well. You guys really put the E into JREF!

I was serious about being glad I hadn't done that at work. Six months ago one of my colleagues was carpeted, as it turned out, he'd been looking at porn on his work computer. On the way home from the disciplinary hearing, he killed himself. The only information I saw about the affair talked about "porn featuring women over 40" and "granny porn".

So it's probably a very sensitive subject with our IT squad.

Rolfe.
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Old 1st August 2009, 09:33 AM   #283
William Parcher
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Make joking now I do not want.
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Old 1st August 2009, 10:47 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
And I'm not really kittening this thread....

http://icanhascheezburger.files.word...role-model.jpg

Rolfe.
Neither am I, Rolfe. Look at the size of that jaguar! Why, it's got one sheep stuck halfway down its gaping maw, and the other is the size of a toy in its ghastly talons! I was lucky that I lived to tell the tale after it spotted me.

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Old 2nd August 2009, 06:24 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The areas outside the part I indicated, as I said before, are intensively farmed by people who COUNT THEIR SHEEP.

Rolfe.
I find this claim remarkable, how can they possibly stay conscious to count them all?
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Old 2nd August 2009, 02:38 PM   #286
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You haven't lived till you find that every time you close your eyes, all you see is a sea of Blackface faces. Trust me.

Rolfe.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 03:20 PM   #287
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I'm unsure if that's sexist, racist or animist.

I was just regaled this evening with a tale of three women who spotted a "Big Cat", running faster than a dog (at the speed of a greyhound) , 600 yards away , in the Peebles area.
(About a night's walk from Rolfe's place).
When I expressed doubts I was assured many things go unreported by farmers in Scotland and that the women were all "intelligent" and that it would be unjust to doubt them because they were female.

This has left me baffled on at least three levels at once.

I congratulate the ladies on their eyesight however.

ETA- Though in no sense expert, I have seen lions (and once a leopard) kill, up close and personal in both Kenya and Tanzania. The leopard kill was , unusually, after dawn and in quite dense bush. The animal was an antelope of some sort, probably a gerenuk, but we couldn't get a clear look. It was killed in a fashion similar to the video clip of the cougar killing the deer- by a sustained grip on the throat leading to suffocation. In this case it was actually held against a rock, with its front hooves off the ground. The cat made no attempt to disembowel it and kept it's hind paws on the ground throughout the 2-3 minutes we watched it.
When it finally moved, the cat leapt up the rock- about 2-3 metres- in a couple of strides, carrying the antelope, which must have weighed at least 30kg.

The lion kills- actually lioness in 2 of three cases I saw, involved 2-3 animals dragging down young zebras by sheer power and weight, while one of them delivered the coup de grace - again by sustained, crushing bite to the throat or windpipe. Not much difference in method, only in the scale of the prey.

Last edited by Soapy Sam; 2nd August 2009 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 04:12 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
You haven't lived till you find that every time you close your eyes, all you see is a sea of Blackface faces. Trust me.

Rolfe.
Have you seen the film 'Black Sheep', Rolfe?
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Old 2nd August 2009, 07:59 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by gtc View Post
I shall definitely be asking her that!
That would be so cool if the owner of the kitty was on TV with the cat in the video.

As far as sheep (and goats) I've raised them for years, and even if you have say 48 of them, or even more, you still can tell when one is missing. Usually you've helped them get born, they have names, you can tell the different individuals from across a pasture at dusk, and a missing sheep or goat is a really big deal.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 03:31 AM   #290
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One of my colleagues from the veterinary investigation near Ayr centre phoned me this morning about an unrelated matter. I discussed the matter of the "mauled" horse with him, and he said he believed the "expert" who pronounced it the work of a big cat was some friend of the owner's who happened to be a vet. Nevertheless this ended up on all the media, including the TV news, with stock photos of pumas and things like that. Nothing was ever said about public alarm, but if you lived near there and had small children, would you be altogether relaxed about that sort of news?

My colleague confirmed that his local farms have not reported any untoward losses, and that, just as here, natural deaths out in the fields are only showing up with the usual carrion bird damage. Again, there isn't enough missing meat to keep a poodle alive.

We're thinking about a polite letter to the Veterinary Record telling our colleagues to engage brain before making such silly pronouncements.

Rolfe.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 05:17 AM   #291
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I just spent half an hour in the post mortem room with the technician, who has just come back from holiday. He was having a good laugh about the whole thing. I remembered that he was born and brought up near where Felicity was found, and asked him about it. He said she was first sighted by an art teacher from his school, who was walking near Fort Augustus. The teacher literally came face to face with the puma, but didn't have a camera. She hurried home to get a camera, but when she got back the puma had vanished. She then did a very detailed drawing from memory of what she'd seen, and the animal was identified as a puma on the basis of that. She had no idea what a "puma" looked like, but because she could draw what she saw, it was possible to identify it. He says the drawing is on display in Fort Augustus. It's believed that Felicity followed the old Wade's military road from there to Cannich.

So you see, even when someone chooses a particularly isolated area to release a big cat, it's not too long before definite presence of big cat is estabilshed.

Rolfe.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 12:10 PM   #292
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Cougar Sighting Hoax in Newark, NJ

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"This is the most extravagant hoax related to cougars that I have ever seen," said Baker. Police tell us the video was originally shot by someone in Wayne in 2007. Police say the animal on it was not a cougar, because it was too short. Barry was charged with falsely reporting an incident. He is scheduled to appear in the town of Arcadia court on August 26th. Calls to his house were not returned.

Story on Cryptomundo.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 03:22 PM   #293
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Incidentally- re the pic of a stuffed "Felicity".
I never yet saw a Traffic Warden in Cannich. It's not the biggest of places.
I'd bet Inverness.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 03:28 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Cool!

I actually investigated the original site of this video. It was filmed by the neighbor of a friend of mine. My friend believed that it was a video of a cougar, and knowing about my interest in the subject, invited me to visit the site of the incident. I, of course, immediately pegged it as a house cat. My friend photographed me standing by the tree that the cat passes in the beginning of the video. He shopped the two images together, using the tree to get the scale right, and admitted that I was right. That 'cougar' is about 12" (~30 mm) tall.

Here's a link to the video -
http://www.klapetzky.com/kitty/kitty.mpg

EDT: By the way, W.P., that's Newark, New York, not Newark, New Jersery.

Last edited by Old man; 3rd August 2009 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Add Content
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Old 3rd August 2009, 04:00 PM   #295
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What's funny about OOPA video's is that there is never any nearby objects than can be used for scale.
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Old 4th August 2009, 01:30 AM   #296
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Not funny at all. If the size was obvious from the pictures, they wouldn't be circulated as alleged "big cats" in the first place.

Given that there don't actually seem to be any real big cats in the locations stated, then obviously pictures of real big cats which are self-evidently big compared to easily-recognisable nearby objects aren't going to appear. So all we have is pictures of moggies with attitude, and these are only going to qualify if they lack appreciable size comparison objects.

Simple, when you think about it.

Rolfe.
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Old 4th August 2009, 01:35 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by Soapy Sam View Post
Incidentally- re the pic of a stuffed "Felicity".
I never yet saw a Traffic Warden in Cannich. It's not the biggest of places.
I'd bet Inverness.

That was my thinking. I've never been to Cannich, but I can read an OS map, and I can visualise it perfectly well. Inverness seems likely, though I couldn't say exactly where.

I think the picture is probably a real publicity stunt got up by the museum. I'm just a bit confused by how old it looks when it must be from about 1985 or so. Still, we must remember that even in 1985 most newspapers were still printing most of their photographs in black and white, so it would be normal for a news photographer to be using black and white film. I think it's that that makes it look older - the actual cars aren't expecially archaic from what I can see of them.

It's also a bit odd that the only place the picture appears on the web is on the BBCS web site - I'd have expected a nice image like that to be traceable.

Rolfe.
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Old 4th August 2009, 01:56 AM   #298
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I just emailed Inverness Museum. Maybe someone there knows.

ETA- in 1975 I spent 8 weeks running the youth hostel in Glen Affric.
Cannich was my Friday night holiday. I was last there about five years ago.
It hadn't changed drastically.

Last edited by Soapy Sam; 4th August 2009 at 02:21 AM.
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Old 4th August 2009, 02:33 AM   #299
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No sign of Marduk now that he's out of the penalty box. Maybe he's gone off to the Forest of Dean to find the panthers - it's only about an hour and a half's drive from where he lives. He better remember to turn west though, not south - south will get him the New Forest, in only about an hour. Where, as we know, there are no "feral sheep".

Rolfe.
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Old 4th August 2009, 04:26 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
It's also a bit odd that the only place the picture appears on the web is on the BBCS web site - I'd have expected a nice image like that to be traceable.
It does seem to be a bit elusive - I'd guess it's a clipping from the Courier or something.

Edit: By the way, doing a Google Image Search for "Felicity Stuffed" is not recommended if you're at work.
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Old 4th August 2009, 08:02 AM   #301
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Panthers in Illinois/Indiana? They got 'em. Black ones too!

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I spoke with a laborer last year, and he and his son had seen what he described as a “black panther” near Iuka, Illinois on their own land.
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My mother lived on a small farm just outside Santa Clause, Indiana in Spencer county. As long as I can remember (I’m 57) she has talked about the panther that would come out of their woods and frolic in the pasture like a kitten. She saw it up close several times when it would pace them while riding their pony. It was definitely not a feral cat. Much, much larger…
Dude. Your mother's town. They don't put an "e" on the end of Claus.


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I saw a black panther in April 2008, northwest of Coatesville, Indiana. It was only 50 yds. from me.
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The thing that bothers me about it is the people reporting it are very credible. These are people you have to put some credence in what they are seeing.
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Old 4th August 2009, 08:07 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
No sign of Marduk now that he's out of the penalty box. Maybe he's gone off to the Forest of Dean to find the panthers - it's only about an hour and a half's drive from where he lives. He better remember to turn west though, not south - south will get him the New Forest, in only about an hour. Where, as we know, there are no "feral sheep".

Rolfe.
nothing worth posting, no reply to my inquiry yet, I am quite familiar with the geography of my home country thanks, south will actually get me in the solent after half an hour, perhaps in future you should stick to geographical pronoucements north of the border. If you like I will happily show you where it is on a map (its just past birmingham)
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Old 4th August 2009, 08:37 AM   #303
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Marduk- as happens, Rolfe lived doon on Albion's Plane for years.

But listen, you two- knock off the squabbling - 'taint worth it and I have no doubt the Lidless Eye of the Darat Lord will be focussed on this thread. So best behaviour , if youse please. It's just a bunch of speculation about puddy tats.
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Old 4th August 2009, 09:49 AM   #304
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I wasn't squabbling, I was attempting to demonstrate I have a sense of humour, nothing I try seems to be going right this week. I need a holiday
Rolfe, anywhere worth camping where you are ?
somewhere without black panthers would be cool thanks
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Old 4th August 2009, 11:02 AM   #305
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Most certainly. People come here on holiday on purpose.

Shame you hadn't any more to say because there were quite a lot of outstanding questions, but do I look like Claus?

Rolfe.
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Old 4th August 2009, 11:17 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I think the picture is probably a real publicity stunt got up by the museum. I'm just a bit confused by how old it looks when it must be from about 1985 or so. Still, we must remember that even in 1985 most newspapers were still printing most of their photographs in black and white, so it would be normal for a news photographer to be using black and white film. I think it's that that makes it look older - the actual cars aren't expecially archaic from what I can see of them.
The car on the left is a (DAF) Volvo 340GL. (1982 - 1991) A Volvo geek could probably pin it down to an actual year or two given the GL badge on the grille, the see-through head rests and the wipers on the head lamps.
The last letter of the registration is S which means it is likely post August 1983.
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Old 4th August 2009, 12:04 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Most certainly. People come here on holiday on purpose.

Shame you hadn't any more to say because there were quite a lot of outstanding questions, but do I look like Claus?

Rolfe.
you look a bit like his cat

but only around the eyes

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Old 4th August 2009, 12:34 PM   #308
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Marduk, cute picture! I think you are too new to know, but we had a poster called Claus who was always demanding EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE and EVIDENCE. Plus, he claimed he would *KILL* anyone he saw on a plane with a gun. Naturally we hope he was kidding since this would include air marshals, but who knows.
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Old 4th August 2009, 03:18 PM   #309
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I was thinking of the "Larsen list" TM.

There are quite few questions I asked Marduk that are still hanging there suggestively....

Rolfe.
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Old 5th August 2009, 10:02 PM   #310
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http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comi...cblackcat2.png
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Old 6th August 2009, 05:16 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Here's a little conundrum for the Bigfooters. The above photo isn't "real", of course. It portrays Felicity after her death and appointment with the taxidermist. I'm just curious about the provenance. I'm inclined to believe it might be as real as the Cottingley Fairies - that is, not manipulated. I think it's perfectly possible they took the stuffed cat into a street, put her on a bench, and photographed her with a couple of interested onlookers, as a publicity stunt for the museum or something.

However, it could be photoshopped. And I'm not sure where the background is, but it looks more likely to be Inverness than Cannich. The apparent age of the picture seems deceptive. Felicity didn't die till the mid-1980s as far as I know, so the whole picture can't be older than that. I think the use of black and white film (or is it a colour pic rendered in black and white?) makes it appear older than it really is. Or has someone photoshopped a picture of the late Felicity on to an older photograph? A car nut might be able to date the models on display in the car park.

I'm just curious, as I can't find the provenance of the image beyond its presence on the British Big Cats web site, where Marduk took it from.

Anybody know anything about it?

Rolfe.
Going by the angles of the shadows from the women's feet, I would expect to also see the top of the shadow of the cat's back, so I'd suspect the cat has been added in on a background pic, as you posit.
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Old 6th August 2009, 06:29 AM   #312
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Depends on the angle of the sun, though. I don't think there's enough information in the photo for me to tell - though of course you know a lot more about photography than me.

I thought it was most probably just a "Cottingley Fairies" job, done to publicise something, possibly an event at the museum. Easy enough to carry the stuffed puma out into the car park and set up that picture. I just find it a little odd that there's no other reference to it on the internet, though I can find plenty other pictures of the stuffed exhibit, indoors, in colour.

It's a fun image, anyway.

Rolfe.
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Old 6th August 2009, 06:43 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Depends on the angle of the sun, though. I don't think there's enough information in the photo for me to tell - though of course you know a lot more about photography than me.
It's not about photography - just observation.

Look at the feet of the women. You can see the shadow of their legs going off toward the top right of the image.

Now, one woman is standing next to the bench that the cat is 'sitting' on. The bench is therefore not too far forwards to see any shadow of anything on top of it, although the level of the bench itself would probably be just too low to reach where the image starts. There is no shadow along the bottom of the photograph which is where I would expect to see the shadow of something sitting higher than the level of the bench itself, which is reasonably low, by all appearances. The bench shadow should/could even intersect the feet of the older woman standing next to the bench, so perhaps the bench has also been added in.
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Old 6th August 2009, 09:40 AM   #314
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You know, I think you're right! The bit that's struck me is the absence of any shadow from the left-hand legs of the bench. Surely that should be visible on the pavement?

This is definitely Felicity, there are other pictures of her as a stuffed exhibit. She seems very rigid and stiff on the bench, but that's to be expected as this is a stuffed animal, not a real one, so it won't conform to the surface it's sitting on. It's a fun image, and not actually impossible or even really implausible, it just seems to me there's something odd about it.

I wonder if that's actually Inverness in the background?

Rolfe.
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Old 6th August 2009, 10:48 AM   #315
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Some more car geekiness - the cars are, clockwise from the one nearest - SAAB 900, Volvo 340GL, Datsun Cherry and Ford Sierra. All of these cars are 82-84 vintage. The Volvo has the last 2 letters FS which means it was registered in Edinburgh after August 1983. The Volvo (and I love this bit) has right hand drive style windscreen wipers and quarterlight door mirrors which weren't introduced until the "1984" model. The Volvo was therefore purchased between September 1983 and September 1985.

For classic car fans, the rarest of these vehicles today is the Datsun Cherry although that's primarily because they rotted away so fast.


Carry on.
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Old 6th August 2009, 05:25 PM   #316
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You get the "Geek of the Month" award.
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Old 7th August 2009, 02:11 AM   #317
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The car dates are all absolutely right for the time Felicity would have been emerging from the taxidermy. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some wag had put her on a bench in the car park during the process of transferring the exhibit to the museum, and snapped the photo.

There's just something about it that doesn't look right.

Rolfe.
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Old 8th August 2009, 01:52 AM   #318
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Someone called Di Francis is being interviewed on Radio 4 at the moment, on "Saturday Live". She's apparently been tracking big cats in the UK for 30 years. She seems to think that the sightings are of 3 species previously unknown to science. A big cat, a "Kellas cat", and a rabbit-headed cat.

They had Simon King on the same programme, who makes his living filming wildlife, and he politely dismissed the idea of undiscovered big cats roaming the British countryside, apart from the few known examples released into the wild when the laws about keeping exotic species changed.
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Old 8th August 2009, 06:14 AM   #319
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Er, the Kellas cat isn't unknown to science. It's a wildcat species, isn't it Rolfe?
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Old 8th August 2009, 07:46 AM   #320
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I don't know much about that really. Everything described in those links is small, not enormously bigger than a domestic cat. Thus, if they exist, they aren't going to be pulling down horses or even sheep. They'd live on birds, rodents and rabbits.

Some of the links talk about domestic cat/wildcat hyprids, but so far as I know such hybrids are common and nothing special - the main concern is that too much of the apparent wildcat population has domestic cat genes in there. The stories sound more like aberrant black cats, possibly with some sort of pathology going on. There's a lot of rubbish about something with a fibrous skull, which if true suggests chronic kidney failure. (I once had a patient called Widget who had the most bizarrely-shaped skull because of chronic renal disease - after he died we preserved the skull as a teaching specimen.)

Until a qualified veterinary pathologist does a post mortem on one of these and declares it to be something unusual, I'd peg them as just big black cats and a lot of transmogrification.

Rolfe.
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