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Tags bigfoot , Bob Gimlin , Bob Heironimus , Patterson-Gimlin film , Roger Patterson

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Old 21st November 2016, 11:27 AM   #281
DennyT
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one of the lessons of the recent political adventures is that people will just lie and and lie and lie. Their success depends on the ability to do so convincingly. In other words, slick.

Bob H. is not slick. He knows it, everyone knows it. His success in life has depended on working hard ( too hard), keeping his nose clean, his family together, and being honest with other people's money. His lifelong friends will tell you that. He doesnt parrot the same old story on stage to standing ovations; rather, he submits to hostile interviews and gets tripped up, which he readily admits. Is he nuts or a pathological liar? absolutely no evidence of that. Is his character bad? no evidence of that. He's one of those kind of people that, I'll wager, would qualify as a seemingly reliable witness if he lived in Willow Creek and told his story about a bigfoot encounter, a few days or weeks after it happened.

and now... we present, in costume, (drum roll), ...BOB GIMLIN!! and his story of a non-existent ape-man!! He could sell ice to Eskimos (actual statement by a fan)!!
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Old 25th November 2016, 06:13 PM   #282
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I don't know if Roger K is still lurking here, but if he is, I would invite him to give us his No. 1 reason why he doesn't think Bob H. is telling the truth about being the man in the suit. Giving 26 or 51 reasons pretty much means none of them are any good. Gish gallop. So why don't you give us number 1, the very best you have, and if need be we can move on later to no. 2.
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Old 25th November 2016, 06:27 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
I don't know if Roger K is still lurking here, but if he is, I would invite him to give us his No. 1 reason why he doesn't think Bob H. is telling the truth about being the man in the suit. Giving 26 or 51 reasons pretty much means none of them are any good. Gish gallop. So why don't you give us number 1, the very best you have, and if need be we can move on later to no. 2.
Funny you mention Roger, I've been wondering where he's gone. I don't think anyone hated him and I think we waited pretty patiently if not hopefully for him to finally "see the light" that he never saw. Yep, it's definitely his move.
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Old 25th November 2016, 07:46 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
Funny you mention Roger, I've been wondering where he's gone. I don't think anyone hated him and I think we waited pretty patiently if not hopefully for him to finally "see the light" that he never saw. Yep, it's definitely his move.
Being a semi-regular lurker, I often notice both NL and RK lurking on these threads without posting. I wonder whether all of the stuff that gets back to the BFF is being reported by one or both of them...

*cue tense music...*
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Old 26th November 2016, 06:40 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Being a semi-regular lurker, I often notice both NL and RK lurking on these threads without posting. I wonder whether all of the stuff that gets back to the BFF is being reported by one or both of them...

*cue tense music...*
It's true, I do read most of the posts here, but I don't have anything substantive to add, so I don't reply. And I don't bring anything back to the BFF. I rarely post there with my last post on June 5, so if someone is sending ISF tidbits, it isn't me.
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Old 27th November 2016, 10:34 AM   #286
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Things I noticed right away in my first look at the RK Gish Gallop list (Gish was a creationist trying to obfuscate the lack of real evidence for creationism):
1) he overstates the number of issues: re: Bob couldn't recall whether he made one trip or two to Patterson's home to get the suit to fit. This one supposed issue with Bob's statements becomes three, in his mind, and on his list.
2) the triviality of issues is astonishing. See above. This is what he has been working on for 12 years? along with compiling a new index to "The Making of Bigfoot?"
3) he gives lip service to memory loss and contamination, but in actuality doesn't consider them. I don't know how old RK is and what detail he can remember from some adventure 40 years ago, but I'd love to put him to that test, as a lesson to him on the accuracy and precision of serial recall of long-past events.
4) he tries to put "the judicial system" in his corner, as if Bob was a suspect in a recent crime, and is being questioned by the police or cross examined at trial. This is a rhetorical device---sophistry, if you will---and immediately alerts the reader that he is being manipulated by the author. If he wants to use the "recent crime" idea, he should have turned his obsession to the statements and actions of Patterson and Gimlin in the days and weeks after they announced the film. Call Bob Knievel to the stand as a character witness for Gimlin. See if Gimlin's wife will testify. Patterson's wife. What is all this "Horse fell, stirrup bent, impossible time line, tracked 3 miles, three weeks in the woods...." stuff?

At the risk of sounding like Colonel Jessup; What's next? Heironimus' favorite color? Please tell us you have more than what is at the top of your list. It is not the responsibility of the reader to go through your whole list of trivia to find your best argument...it is your responsibility to present it.
A list is not an argument.
At the moment, your list is not only a failure, but IMHO a transparent attempt to manipulate the reader by the Gish Gallop method and rhetorical devices. It may work with the "low-information" believers, but not around here.
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Old 27th November 2016, 12:05 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Being a semi-regular lurker, I often notice both NL and RK lurking on these threads without posting. I wonder whether all of the stuff that gets back to the BFF is being reported by one or both of them...

*cue tense music...*
How does one see who is lurking?
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Old 28th November 2016, 12:07 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
How does one see who is lurking?
You just find them in the list of members at the bottom of the main page and click. They're frequently signed-in and reading these threads but never seem to post anything, which is fair enough if innocent.
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Generic proclamation of positivity:

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Old 28th November 2016, 12:08 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by Northern Lights View Post
so if someone is sending ISF tidbits, it isn't me.
Pinky swear?
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Old 28th November 2016, 06:30 AM   #290
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Knights has not logged in to this forum since October 24th.
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Old 28th November 2016, 09:31 AM   #291
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One doesn't have to log in to "lurk", aka to just read content, correct? So RK could be reading this, correct?
If he doesn't respond, I will PM him.
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Old 28th November 2016, 09:38 AM   #292
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RK seems to have compiled transcripts of everything Bob H has ever said. That is admirable service, in some ways. I have not been able to gain access to this compilation; perhaps he could clarify how to find it.
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Old 28th November 2016, 09:46 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
One doesn't have to log in to "lurk", aka to just read content, correct? So RK could be reading this, correct?
If he doesn't respond, I will PM him.
Correct, but you cannot know that that is happening. Gilbert claimed knowledge of that.
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Old 28th November 2016, 09:52 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
RK seems to have compiled transcripts of everything Bob H has ever said. That is admirable service, in some ways. I have not been able to gain access to this compilation; perhaps he could clarify how to find it.
Possibly here...

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2012/01/...ws-w-o-comment


And here...

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2012/01/...-vs-heironimus
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Old 28th November 2016, 09:54 AM   #295
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More...

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2014/11/...mus-interviews
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Old 29th November 2016, 01:39 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Thanks, I found my way through the malware ads....now if I can just get them autographed....
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Old 30th November 2016, 05:22 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Correct, but you cannot know that that is happening. Gilbert claimed knowledge of that.

I actually said that I often see them logged in and viewing these threads without posting, which NL admitted to doing. Not really "claimed knowledge," more a case of me observing what's happening and guessing the intent.

Not that anything typed up on the BFF bothers me, an adult male with a life, but someone is clearly lurking here to see what's being said, otherwise my name wouldn't have appeared over there at all seeing as I'm not a member.
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Old 1st December 2016, 05:38 PM   #298
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As far as I know, not a single one of the high priests of the cult of bigfootery has ever spoken to Bob H.* I think that says volumes. Possibly not to Greg Long, either.
Sasquatch: Denial Meets Science

*Gimlin has obviously spoken to Bob, in years gone by. But he's more like the Pope
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Old 1st December 2016, 05:44 PM   #299
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You might have to define high priest because Bigfooters have conversed with both of those guys in the past.
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Old 3rd December 2016, 08:48 AM   #300
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I mean Munns, Perez, Murphy, Meldrum, Krantz (obviously), Knights, Moneymaker, Cliffie, Dahinden...?
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Old 3rd December 2016, 09:35 AM   #301
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I think Krantz and Dahinden were dead before Greg Long wrote his book introducing Bob Heironimus to the public. But maybe those guys heard of BH's name in hushed Bigfooter circles.

BH was on at least one web radio show which had callers asking questions. It was hosted by Tom Biscardi (a Bigfoot priest to many back then) and MK Davis was a caller.

I think that GL was once a speaker at a Bigfoot conference, but I don't know if any priests talked to him there.

Biscardi and Davis were Bigfoot priests but they fell from grace. More accurately, they were expelled from the Cult of Bigfootery. Davis should still have some followers now though hidden in a dark corner of the web.
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Old 5th December 2016, 09:10 AM   #302
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BOBO

STEENBURG

MIOSCZINSKI
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Old 5th December 2016, 11:06 AM   #303
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The actual first item on RK's big list is "When was BH first approached about suit wearing?"
RK writes that in MoB, p. 342, Bob said "...July or August..." while in a 2007 interview he said, "...about September..." (!!)
Stop the presses, people!!! 40 years later, Bob doesn't have a old date book to refer to!! String him up!
but, pardon my common sense, here, might well have been August.

Seriously, RK, WTF?
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Old 6th December 2016, 10:27 AM   #304
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I left out John Green, who of course denounced the book and Bob H, and came out with his bogus arm "measurements"; also I left out BFBM, who has denounced his story.
My point is that of those "thought leaders" who have some sort of platform to speak about Bob, and pretend to have some informed opinion, none, to my knowledge, have ever made an attempt to seriously talk to him. I could of course add the heroes of the Basement Footers Forum, past and present, who have gone on and on about Bob's bony proportions without ever seeing him.

Some of this is understandable from the lesser lights/TV entertainers, etc; and certainly Bob has created a lot of data by multiple interviews with Long and other media, but when one attempts to take down a person in print or from some sort of platform of academia or scientific analysis, without attempting actual contact, I have to say it's just cowardice and intellectual fraud.

That said, I do give RK credit for using actual quotes from Bob, although the context is not always clear.
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Old 6th December 2016, 12:52 PM   #305
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A good effort should've been made to get the two Bob's in a room to refute each other's stories, or maybe just to see if they got into a slapping contest. It seems a whole lot could be cleared up by tricking them into the same room and having at it. Get them both to turn up at a certain place with the intention of having a short interview without knowing the other one would also be there, and just see wtf happens. "Let's be 'avin' you, lads!"
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Old 8th December 2016, 10:17 AM   #306
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by contrast, many, if not most of the mainstream and skeptical writers have made it a point to at least try to contact and interview Gimlin.
Just sayin....
The "same room" fantasy is probably never going to happen without some subterfuge, and Gimlin would undoubtedly flee the scene as soon as he realized the situation. That said, it still might happen...
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Old 8th December 2016, 01:11 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
by contrast, many, if not most of the mainstream and skeptical writers have made it a point to at least try to contact and interview Gimlin.
Just sayin....
The "same room" fantasy is probably never going to happen without some subterfuge, and Gimlin would undoubtedly flee the scene as soon as he realized the situation. That said, it still might happen...
If it were up to me I'd trick them into it and would lock them in the ******* room until something worthwhile happened.
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Old 11th December 2016, 11:01 AM   #308
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Another one of the interesting relationships (or non-relationships) in the West Valley community is that between Bob H and Mrs. Patterson. They grew up together. She now lives in a tidy "manufactured home" park only a couple of miles from Bob and Gimlin. Her silence on the subject of the film is even more deafening than that of Mrs. Gimlin. Of course, the bleevers pay no attention to the silence of either one of these women, both of whom know the truth.
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Old 14th December 2016, 11:02 AM   #309
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Bob H. grew up in Tampico, a crossroads community located west of Yakima; he went to school there, and everybody knew everybody. The area is in a broad valley flanked by mostly bald hills, with trees along Ahtanum Creek. It is hard to imagine how the "Bigfoot" of modern folklore would be living around there. Which is exactly how Les Johnson and others felt about the whole hoorah that Patterson ushered in, in 1966, as detailed in MoB. Jerry Lee's old place is only a few feet away from the now-widened and paved road; so close that the old front door had to be abandoned. The entrance is now around back. The cottonwood trees where Patterson built his lookout are still there, about 50 yards from the house. The Western village was in a pasture about 100 yards behind the house. None of the buidlings persist. Farther west the valley narrows rapidly beyond the Tampico crossroads, following the South Fork of the Ahtanum. Patterson's place is uninhabited today, but the buildings are still there, and the pasture where Bob H. learned to walk in the costume. Between Pattersons and Tampico is an old landing strip, on the south side of the road, and it was in the hills above that where the the spring filming was done.
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Old 14th December 2016, 12:11 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
...Patterson's place is uninhabited today, but the buildings are still there, and the pasture where Bob H. learned to walk...
I wonder if while he was learning to walk in that pasture Roger Patterson allowed Bob H. the use of a teething ring and/or an off-road baby walker. It was a special time and they should have had some special equipment.
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Old 16th December 2016, 03:55 PM   #311
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Gerald Aka Jerry Lee Merritt's sister lived next door to the Mondor place where the Pattersons lived as of the mid-60's. Her husband at that time gave Greg Long an interview, anonymously, supposedly. Haha. Long did not always comply with the wishes of those who trusted him. The man was another long time area resident who knew of Patterson's activities and wanted nothing to do with him. Unfortunately Roger burned him on a $700 phone bill. I don't know how much that is in today's money but the family was not well off. They are also the family who witnessed the nearby campfire that Roger claimed to was at Mt. St. Helen. There is more to their story, however.
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
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Old 18th December 2016, 06:45 PM   #312
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Speaking of which, I see that Mt. St. Helens is gearing up for another eruption.
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Old 19th December 2016, 01:53 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
Speaking of which, I see that Mt. St. Helens is gearing up for another eruption.
Yeah, I read about that, although I'm not sure how certain they are of it erupting so soon.

One thing's for sure, it'll be devastating to local life, and wildlife that actually exists, ruling out giant magical monkey-men.
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Old 20th December 2016, 07:04 AM   #314
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Mt. St. Helens eruptions have a devastating effect on Wood Apes. Wait. I mean Mountain Apes. Boogers.
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Old 20th December 2016, 08:20 AM   #315
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Mountain Monkeys.
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Old 20th December 2016, 10:11 AM   #316
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Salt Fork State Park* Simians.

*highest concentration of bigfoots in the world.
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Old 20th December 2016, 01:15 PM   #317
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Hairy Hill-Hominids.




Believe.
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Old 21st December 2016, 04:38 PM   #318
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Peripheral primates
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Old 27th December 2016, 11:17 AM   #319
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The totality of the non-support of the Patterson-Gimlin story by their families and really by anyone in Yakima prior to 2003 is quite impressive, and in contrast with the acceptance of Bob H as an honest guy and the subject of the film.
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Old 12th July 2018, 11:36 AM   #320
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For those of you who donít follow Meldrumís pitiful Relict Hominoid Inquiry, I would call attention to a piece by Murphy (he of the Hancock House PGF picture books) in the Brief Communications Section last year. It is quite odd and quite bad and very outdated. And he says Meldrum (he of the Todd Standing camp) helped him with it!!! It makes me wonder if this is some old thing from like 2006 before Bill Munns got involved.
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