ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 10th May 2018, 01:58 AM   #161
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 59,055
Someone lost an earring. Did you do anything at all to work out who had lost it? Or did you just leave it there for the restaurant staff to maybe vacuum up or lose?
__________________
Wake up, you cardboard.
- Pixie of Key
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2018, 05:07 AM   #162
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,506
Did you tell the staff about the earrings?

They would think one of your party left them there.

Did you say "Hey these earrings fell from the ceiling, they are not ours"?


"We all saw the earrings"
Did you all see them fall? or did you all see them after someone said 'hey look at these earrings that fell from the ceiling."?
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2018, 02:48 PM   #163
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 83,822
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
No one lost any jewelry. Once we ruled out a falling insect, we checked our ears.
The never ending "more details I didn't mention at first because I hadn't thought about it".
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2018, 02:53 PM   #164
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 59,055
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The never ending "more details I didn't mention at first because I hadn't thought about it".
Also known technically as "confabulation". When details are missing from explicit memory, the brain will just make stuff up that seems appropriate.
__________________
Wake up, you cardboard.
- Pixie of Key
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2018, 06:47 PM   #165
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,174
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Did you tell the staff about the earrings?

They would think one of your party left them there.

Did you say "Hey these earrings fell from the ceiling, they are not ours"?


"We all saw the earrings"
Did you all see them fall? or did you all see them after someone said 'hey look at these earrings that fell from the ceiling."?
No, as far as I know no one told the staff. I saw the second earring fall, Gena to my left saw it fall. I don't think Laura to my right saw it. Annie Ruth on Becky's left saw the second earring fall. Teresa was on Becky's right so I doubt she would see it fall.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2018, 06:49 PM   #166
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,174
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The never ending "more details I didn't mention at first because I hadn't thought about it".
I mentioned earlier on that I thought it was a bug at first. I wouldn't be telling the story if someone was missing the earring.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2018, 04:10 AM   #167
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 20,425
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
I mentioned earlier on that I thought it was a bug at first. I wouldn't be telling the story if someone was missing the earring.
You didn't actually check to see if anyone in the restaurant was missing an earring, or reported one missing. You didn't turn them over to staff for the "lost and found" box.

If you lost an earring, you'd want whoever found it to make an effort.

You apparently just left them on the table.

Did the restaurant ask you about the earrings you left there?

What do you think the bus person thought when they found the earrings while clearing the table?
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2018, 05:41 AM   #168
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 18,672
None of this ever happened, so the focus on detail seems superfluous.
carlitos is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2018, 06:50 AM   #169
Chanakya

 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 788
Let me channel my inner Holmes, or my inner Marple (I know, that last sounds kind of lame, but think of it as consciously striking a blow against deeply-entrenched-within-our-psyche patriarchy!), and ask, complete with inscrutable expression while looking up thoughtfully from behind my pipe (just a pretend-pipe, I don’t smoke) -- or, if you prefer, from behind my knitting needles :

Jodie, how clean was this restaurant?

Not just a ‘yes, clean enough’, or a ‘no, not particularly’, or a “didn’t notice”, but as detailed and graphic a description as you can think of, but entirely focusing on the cleanliness angle.
Chanakya is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2018, 07:14 AM   #170
Chanakya

 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 788
Okay, Jodie, not to stretch this play-acting over much! That is, I’d greatly enjoy extending my Holmes (or Marple) impersonation for a day or two, but I realize that in trying to answer my question, you might end up taking a great deal of time and effort to write out a very detailed post, in jotting down your impression about the restaurant as I requested. And it would be inconsiderate of me to get you to waste your time like that, just for my own entertainment.

So let me cut to the chase already. It isn’t anything particularly insightful, although who knows, perhaps, it’s a long enough shot but just perhaps, this might be the answer.

Here’s what I was thinking. If the place is not a well-kept place, if it’s the exact opposite of spick-and-span, and if, further, it is kept open (windows open, no airconditioning -- I don’t know if you’ve mentioned which city you’re in? Holmes with his eidetic memory would remember, and if I were a more committed Holmes play-actor I’d re-read the thread carefully to find out, but I’m neither) -- then it is possible that there are, well, creatures, in there.

What “creatures”? Nothing dramatic, and certainly you won’t get them in any well-maintained place. Say lizards?

Again, Holmes would know if lizards have jaws that are strong enough to pick up a small ear-ring. And a really committed Holmes-pretender would already do the research, and consult Moriarty Google to find out if lizards’ jaws do have the necessary strength, and also if they are known, if they’ve been observed, to ever do this sort of thing. But again, I’m neither, so I’ll just note these as ‘things to look up by anyone who’s interested enough in exploring this particular possibility’.

The idea is, might a lizard have picked up an ear-ring, and gone up to the ceiling with it, and dropped it from there?

Again, it might have done this once, but twice from the exact same spot would be too much of a coincidence, right? Well no, not if lizards make nests. (I don’t know if they do that, and again, I’m too lazy to look it up. And yes, I know, it would be an exceptionally dirty and ill-kept restaurant that housed not just lizards but actual lizard nests -- that is, if lizards do make nests at all, especially nests up there at the ceiling).

And it doesn’t have to be just lizards, anything else of this nature might do. I can’t think of anything else, but perhaps others can? No, not birds, that would be going too far! Not even a demented restaurateur would run a place that has birds flying around inside it! But you get the idea, right? Some creepy crawly creature, perhaps a lizard, perhaps with a nest somewhere up there at the ceiling, where it squirrels away its small treasures (yeah, right, speaking of “squirreling”, why not squirrels? Perhaps the place might have squirrels, just one or two would do, not necessarily a whole roomful of them), and sometimes those treasures, earrings in this case, drop down from the nest up above.

All right, I know you guys looked up, and would have seen a nest. Might the nest have been just a small way off, close by but far enough that you wouldn’t notice it unless you were specifically looking for it? And the squirrel or lizard (or whatever) very close to it and en route to it or something, when it dropped the earrings on your group? (And after inadervertently dropping its precious cargo, it would scuttle away immediately from there, either to try and retrieve it, or for whatever other reason that might light up in its lizar/squirrel brain. So you wouldn't see said lizar/squirrel either.)



Like I said, long shot -- that is why I didn’t feel justified in getting you to waste time on a long post describing the restaurant, and have instead wasted time myself over it instead (no, not "wasted" really, truth to tell I enjoyed playing Holmes/Poirot/whatever over this) -- long shot, but for all you know if could be true.

What do you think?
Chanakya is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2018, 07:46 AM   #171
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 20,425
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
None of this ever happened, so the focus on detail seems superfluous.
It helps to show that perhaps the memory of the event isn't very accurate. Over time, the repeated discussion of the details reveals flaws in the story / story line.

Normally if I saw an earring on a restaurant floor, I'd do one of two things.

A - Pretend I don't see it.

B - Make some effort towards reuniting it with it's owner such as pointing it out to the waitress, or picking it up and asking around, or taking it to the front to turn in as found.

I can't imagine why I'd pick it up and then just leave it on my table.

Most likely, I'd go with A, unless the earring looked expensive.
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2018, 08:51 AM   #172
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,559
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The never ending "more details I didn't mention at first because I hadn't thought about it".
It'll get more amazing each time.
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"01010100 00110100 01110110 01101101 00110111 01100111 01010010 00110110 00001101 00001010"

Said the robot gleefully as he went on his rampage.
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2018, 08:56 AM   #173
Cervelo
Graduate Poster
 
Cervelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,455
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It helps to show that perhaps the memory of the event isn't very accurate. Over time, the repeated discussion of the details reveals flaws in the story / story line.

Normally if I saw an earring on a restaurant floor, I'd do one of two things.

A - Pretend I don't see it.

B - Make some effort towards reuniting it with it's owner such as pointing it out to the waitress, or picking it up and asking around, or taking it to the front to turn in as found.

I can't imagine why I'd pick it up and then just leave it on my table.

Most likely, I'd go with A, unless the earring looked expensive.
Keep in mind, this is the same person that claims to have seen a cougar attack a deer in a backyard of Edisto Island S.C. , and didn't see any reason to report it to authorities....go figure

Last edited by Cervelo; 11th May 2018 at 08:58 AM.
Cervelo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2018, 07:11 AM   #174
Chanakya

 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 788
Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Moriarty

Oops, I meant Mycroft, not Moriarty!

That kind of blooper tends to spoil the effect, when it is someone like Holmes you're trying to channel!
Chanakya is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2018, 07:38 AM   #175
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,915
Bigfoot tossed it after having a smoke with a panther in SC. Then they went for a late lunch at a diner where footie locked the panther in the rest room by telepathically latching the door.

Then, Abe Lincoln walked in . . .
__________________
This is not the America I know and love. We're better than this.

Chesley B. Sullenberger III
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2018, 07:50 AM   #176
P.J. Denyer
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,573
Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Bigfoot tossed it after having a smoke with a panther in SC. Then they went for a late lunch at a diner where footie locked the panther in the rest room by telepathically latching the door.

Then, Abe Lincoln walked in . . .
It's the only reasonable explanation.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2018, 05:22 PM   #177
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,174
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
You didn't actually check to see if anyone in the restaurant was missing an earring, or reported one missing. You didn't turn them over to staff for the "lost and found" box.

If you lost an earring, you'd want whoever found it to make an effort.

You apparently just left them on the table.

Did the restaurant ask you about the earrings you left there?

What do you think the bus person thought when they found the earrings while clearing the table?
These were really inexpensive earrings that didn't match. At the time it happened we were the only customers left in the restaurant so there was no one to ask about the earrings.

A far as I know, no one heard from the restaurant. I have no idea what the bus person might have thought about a pair of cheap unmatched earrings left laying on the table.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2018, 05:23 PM   #178
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,559
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
These were really inexpensive earrings that didn't match. At the time it happened we were the only customers left in the restaurant so there was no one to ask about the earrings.

A far as I know, no one heard from the restaurant. I have no idea what the bus person might have thought about a pair of cheap unmatched earrings left laying on the table.
He undoubtedly thought what I do, 17th-dimensional travelers.
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"01010100 00110100 01110110 01101101 00110111 01100111 01010010 00110110 00001101 00001010"

Said the robot gleefully as he went on his rampage.
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2018, 05:25 PM   #179
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,174
Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Keep in mind, this is the same person that claims to have seen a cougar attack a deer in a backyard of Edisto Island S.C. , and didn't see any reason to report it to authorities....go figure
Of course you're confused, you only told half the story.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2018, 05:36 PM   #180
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,174
Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Okay, Jodie, not to stretch this play-acting over much! That is, I’d greatly enjoy extending my Holmes (or Marple) impersonation for a day or two, but I realize that in trying to answer my question, you might end up taking a great deal of time and effort to write out a very detailed post, in jotting down your impression about the restaurant as I requested. And it would be inconsiderate of me to get you to waste your time like that, just for my own entertainment.

So let me cut to the chase already. It isn’t anything particularly insightful, although who knows, perhaps, it’s a long enough shot but just perhaps, this might be the answer.

Here’s what I was thinking. If the place is not a well-kept place, if it’s the exact opposite of spick-and-span, and if, further, it is kept open (windows open, no airconditioning -- I don’t know if you’ve mentioned which city you’re in? Holmes with his eidetic memory would remember, and if I were a more committed Holmes play-actor I’d re-read the thread carefully to find out, but I’m neither) -- then it is possible that there are, well, creatures, in there.

What “creatures”? Nothing dramatic, and certainly you won’t get them in any well-maintained place. Say lizards?

Again, Holmes would know if lizards have jaws that are strong enough to pick up a small ear-ring. And a really committed Holmes-pretender would already do the research, and consult Moriarty Google to find out if lizards’ jaws do have the necessary strength, and also if they are known, if they’ve been observed, to ever do this sort of thing. But again, I’m neither, so I’ll just note these as ‘things to look up by anyone who’s interested enough in exploring this particular possibility’.

The idea is, might a lizard have picked up an ear-ring, and gone up to the ceiling with it, and dropped it from there?

Again, it might have done this once, but twice from the exact same spot would be too much of a coincidence, right? Well no, not if lizards make nests. (I don’t know if they do that, and again, I’m too lazy to look it up. And yes, I know, it would be an exceptionally dirty and ill-kept restaurant that housed not just lizards but actual lizard nests -- that is, if lizards do make nests at all, especially nests up there at the ceiling).

And it doesn’t have to be just lizards, anything else of this nature might do. I can’t think of anything else, but perhaps others can? No, not birds, that would be going too far! Not even a demented restaurateur would run a place that has birds flying around inside it! But you get the idea, right? Some creepy crawly creature, perhaps a lizard, perhaps with a nest somewhere up there at the ceiling, where it squirrels away its small treasures (yeah, right, speaking of “squirreling”, why not squirrels? Perhaps the place might have squirrels, just one or two would do, not necessarily a whole roomful of them), and sometimes those treasures, earrings in this case, drop down from the nest up above.

All right, I know you guys looked up, and would have seen a nest. Might the nest have been just a small way off, close by but far enough that you wouldn’t notice it unless you were specifically looking for it? And the squirrel or lizard (or whatever) very close to it and en route to it or something, when it dropped the earrings on your group? (And after inadervertently dropping its precious cargo, it would scuttle away immediately from there, either to try and retrieve it, or for whatever other reason that might light up in its lizar/squirrel brain. So you wouldn't see said lizar/squirrel either.)



Like I said, long shot -- that is why I didn’t feel justified in getting you to waste time on a long post describing the restaurant, and have instead wasted time myself over it instead (no, not "wasted" really, truth to tell I enjoyed playing Holmes/Poirot/whatever over this) -- long shot, but for all you know if could be true.

What do you think?
Anoles and Skinks are the only lizards I ever see her in SC that walk up walls. I've never seen them on ceilings or carrying anything like an earring in their mouths while scaling walls much less ceilings. I don't think it's likely that kind of lizard could get down from the ceiling, and down the wall, before we would have seen it, much less carry an earring up to the ceiling to drop down on us, or near us, twice.....that's what I think. It was a smooth plaster ceiling indoors with A/C, I don't think a squirrel would go unnoticed either.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd

Last edited by Jodie; 12th May 2018 at 05:37 PM.
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2018, 05:40 PM   #181
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,174
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It helps to show that perhaps the memory of the event isn't very accurate. Over time, the repeated discussion of the details reveals flaws in the story / story line.

Normally if I saw an earring on a restaurant floor, I'd do one of two things.

A - Pretend I don't see it.

B - Make some effort towards reuniting it with it's owner such as pointing it out to the waitress, or picking it up and asking around, or taking it to the front to turn in as found.

I can't imagine why I'd pick it up and then just leave it on my table.

Most likely, I'd go with A, unless the earring looked expensive.
Annie Ruth picked it up after the second earring fell on Becky because she didn't see what initially fell on the floor the first time, neither did I.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2018, 05:43 PM   #182
Cervelo
Graduate Poster
 
Cervelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,455
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Of course you're confused, you only told half the story.
Not at all...let's hear some fabrication or as you say the other half of the story.
Cervelo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2018, 05:44 PM   #183
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 18,713
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
A far as I know, no one heard from the restaurant. I have no idea what the bus person might have thought about a pair of cheap unmatched earrings left laying on the table.
The staff knew where they came from. They came from the lost-and-found drawer before they tossed them at you.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2018, 09:25 PM   #184
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,174
Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Not at all...let's hear some fabrication or as you say the other half of the story.
No need, anyone interested can read it in the original thread.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2018, 09:27 PM   #185
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,174
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
The staff knew where they came from. They came from the lost-and-found drawer before they tossed them at you.
That didn't happen according to the three coworkers sitting at the table facing towards the room.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2018, 06:02 AM   #186
Cervelo
Graduate Poster
 
Cervelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,455
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
No need, anyone interested can read it in the original thread.
As always, your claim you back it up. But this is a great example of a woo peddler tactic. They not only shift the burden of proof but then can't be bothered with supporting their baseless claims within the discussion.
Oh and by the way, this is another great example of your flawed memory, there is no "original" thread about you seeing a cougar attack a deer in a backyard, on an island in South Carolina, and not reporting this to authorities. That "Jodie Story" was part of a thread about the Eastern Cougar being declared extinct.
But maybe you should start one it would be fascinating to hear the complete story and your reasoning for not reporting a quite dramatic and dangerous situation to authorities.

Last edited by Cervelo; 13th May 2018 at 06:22 AM.
Cervelo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2018, 06:40 AM   #187
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,174
That discussion would be off topic for this particular thread, Cervelo. If you want to revisit my cougar sighting then feel free to post a new thread about it to rehash the story.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd

Last edited by Jodie; 13th May 2018 at 06:41 AM.
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2018, 09:00 AM   #188
Cervelo
Graduate Poster
 
Cervelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,455
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
That discussion would be off topic for this particular thread, Cervelo. If you want to revisit my cougar sighting then feel free to post a new thread about it to rehash the story.
Not off topic at all its another great example of the behaviour that woo peddlers engage in. Just as with your earring story it starts off as a baseless/basic fantastical claim, and the story grows and grows with each challenge or suggestion.
It's a very disingenuous ploy used to play the game, seek attention or just jerk people around, who knows....but it's fun to watch the gyrations of the woo peddlers, keep up the predictable "good" work!
Cervelo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2018, 09:18 AM   #189
P.J. Denyer
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,573
Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Not off topic at all its another great example of the behaviour that woo peddlers engage in. Just as with your earring story it starts off as a baseless/basic fantastical claim, and the story grows and grows with each challenge or suggestion.
It's a very disingenuous ploy used to play the game, seek attention or just jerk people around, who knows....but it's fun to watch the gyrations of the woo peddlers, keep up the predictable "good" work!
Yeah, but at least that one isn't as banal as finding an old earring on the floor, a bathroom door swinging shut or tissues not being gravity proof.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2018, 04:03 PM   #190
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,174
It is what it is, I notice banal incongruities, so shoot me.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2018, 05:22 AM   #191
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,506
Jodie,

I'd suggest you go with this explanation:

A bug fell off the ceiling hitting your friend in the arm.
When you looked to see what it was, the bug had scurried away, and there were already two earrings on the floor.
This restaurant doesn't vaccuum often, or missed it.

Your brain assumed the earrings sitting on the floor were what had fallen, because there was no longer a bug in the logical landing area.
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2018, 06:08 AM   #192
Chanakya

 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 788
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Anoles and Skinks are the only lizards I ever see her in SC that walk up walls. I've never seen them on ceilings or carrying anything like an earring in their mouths while scaling walls much less ceilings. I don't think it's likely that kind of lizard could get down from the ceiling, and down the wall, before we would have seen it, much less carry an earring up to the ceiling to drop down on us, or near us, twice.....that's what I think. It was a smooth plaster ceiling indoors with A/C, I don't think a squirrel would go unnoticed either.

Fair enough. You are the one who’s seen the restaurant, and if on reflection you feel that a lizard or a squirrel couldn’t possibly have entered there and gone around unnoticed, then that’s that. We have no option but to bid fond goodbye to the Squirrel Hypothesis. Oh well, it was a long shot at best!

This then would be the second of Holmes’s unsolved cases (Watson records just one in his memoirs, if I recall correctly), and probably the very first of Marple’s. ‘The Case of the Earrings’ remains unsolved.
Chanakya is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2018, 06:25 AM   #193
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 20,425
Why pick up, off the floor, a really inexpensive earring in an empty restaurant, just to do nothing at all with it, or about it?

Also, the very first and most logical explanation for an earring landing on your table, is that someone threw it at you, yet you don't seem to have pursued this at all, even slightly. You don't even ask the staff about it at all. Basically, you don't react to it much.

You claim to have ruled out someone throwing them at you, but you don't explain how you did that. It seems like you just decided, based on the "trajectory" of something that landed in front of you out of the blue. How you saw the trajectory of it is beyond me, since it was totally unexpected.

Do you think it's a coincidence that the earring(s) did not land when the food was on the table and they might have landed in the food?
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2018, 06:28 AM   #194
Cervelo
Graduate Poster
 
Cervelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,455
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
It is what it is, I notice banal incongruities, so shoot me.
Another member had posted this in a thread with another "Jodie Story" which may have well had been the same **** different day. My apologies for not being able to credit the member, but it sums up this behaviour very well, the victim ploy is a new twist!

"It's as if you are a singularly fantastic presence on the planet. I'm skeptical of virtually everything that you say. You talk about yourself all the time here, so the arguments are drawn onto you rather than the object of your claims. It tests the forum guideline of "attack the argument, not the arguer" because you force the argument to be about you based on personal anecdotal experience."

The part that's fascinating to me about this type of behavior from the woo peddler is posting such drivel on a skeptical fourm. It's one thing to be a Bigfooter, UFOer, Ghost Hunter, Past Lifer and spend your time on those fourms role playing or practicing your delusional thinking, but quite another to appear to pretend to seek the truth, on a skeptics fourm.

Last edited by Cervelo; 14th May 2018 at 06:43 AM.
Cervelo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2018, 06:28 AM   #195
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 20,425
It's interesting that in the Good-N-Plenty and earring incidents, we have claims of noticing the trajectory of objects that landed out of the blue among people.

In the one case, the trajectory is said to prove the object was thrown.

In the other, the trajectory is said to prove the object was not thrown.
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2018, 06:32 AM   #196
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
 
Hellbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 12,754
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It's interesting that in the Good-N-Plenty and earring incidents, we have claims of noticing the trajectory of objects that landed out of the blue among people.
Well, I can definitely notice the trajectory this thread is taking.



ETA: And it appears to be accompanied by a descending pitch whistling sound....
Hellbound is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th May 2018, 07:20 PM   #197
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,174
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Why pick up, off the floor, a really inexpensive earring in an empty restaurant, just to do nothing at all with it, or about it?
I would not have connected the two events just sitting at the table on my own. When the earring fell on Becky's arm Annie Ruth looked to see what had fallen on the floor previously since she didn't find the ink pen she originally assumed made the noise. She found a non matching earring on the floor and assumed that was what made the noise after the second earring fell on Becky.

Quote:
Also, the very first and most logical explanation for an earring landing on your table, is that someone threw it at you, yet you don't seem to have pursued this at all, even slightly. You don't even ask the staff about it at all. Basically, you don't react to it much.
No, I just sat there and watched it all unfold.

Quote:
You claim to have ruled out someone throwing them at you, but you don't explain how you did that. It seems like you just decided, based on the "trajectory" of something that landed in front of you out of the blue. How you saw the trajectory of it is beyond me, since it was totally unexpected.
Yes I did, I had my back to the room but the three people sitting across from me did not. I'm accepting what they say happened that there was no one near us that could have thrown the earrings.

Quote:
Do you think it's a coincidence that the earring(s) did not land when the food was on the table and they might have landed in the food?
Not really, the dishes were still on the table and hadn't been cleared yet when it happened.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th May 2018, 07:43 PM   #198
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,174
Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Another member had posted this in a thread with another "Jodie Story" which may have well had been the same **** different day. My apologies for not being able to credit the member, but it sums up this behaviour very well, the victim ploy is a new twist!

"It's as if you are a singularly fantastic presence on the planet. I'm skeptical of virtually everything that you say. You talk about yourself all the time here, so the arguments are drawn onto you rather than the object of your claims. It tests the forum guideline of "attack the argument, not the arguer" because you force the argument to be about you based on personal anecdotal experience."

The part that's fascinating to me about this type of behavior from the woo peddler is posting such drivel on a skeptical fourm. It's one thing to be a Bigfooter, UFOer, Ghost Hunter, Past Lifer and spend your time on those fourms role playing or practicing your delusional thinking, but quite another to appear to pretend to seek the truth, on a skeptics fourm.
I am seeking the truth. I'm willing to put up with a certain amount of scorn in the process otherwise I wouldn't stay. The problem isn't me IMO, it's your tendency to vacillate depending on who you happen to be interacting with at any given moment. Either way I appreciate your fascination with my "Jodie Stories" regardless of which way the wind is blowing this year or the next.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th May 2018, 10:26 PM   #199
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 10,578
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
I am seeking the truth.
But there simply isn't sufficient information available to determine the truth. You might have been able to gather sufficient information at the time but you didn't, and it's certainly impossible now. All you, and we, can do is speculate about what further information might have been gathered if you had bothered to look for it.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th May 2018, 05:39 AM   #200
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
 
Hellbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 12,754
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
But there simply isn't sufficient information available to determine the truth. You might have been able to gather sufficient information at the time but you didn't, and it's certainly impossible now. All you, and we, can do is speculate about what further information might have been gathered if you had bothered to look for it.
This. Definitely this. This is the case for most of the "unexplained" phenomena that believers keep coming back to: it's unexplained because no one bothered to get the required information at the time.

I've told my ghost story on here several times, and it's a case in point. It was at my grandmother's funeral. We were at the grave site, and had just finished the ceremony. She was buried at a country church, and there were woods and pastures around the cemetery behind it. It was dusk, and the family was all standing around talking, and we saw what appeared to be a woman, all white, walking back and forth at the top of a nearby hill, under a tree. She would disappear and reappear occasionally. We were all convinced it was some sort of ghost. That is until I went and took a closer look. I climbed through the fence into the pasture, and walked towards the hill.

It turned out to be a cow. The cow was mostly black, except for it's front legs and a strip across it's front shoulders, which were white. With the fading light, the black parts weren't visible. When the cow walked sideways to us, the white parts looked like a woman walking. When it faced towards or away from us, the white parts disappeared.

The point of the story is, if no one had investigated further at the time, no one would have accepted "cow" as the explanation. It would never have crossed my mind, either. When we don't have full information, we can't really exclude all the possible mundane explanations. Unexplained does NOT equal unexplainable, especially when we don't have complete data.
Hellbound is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:49 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.