[Continuation] The behaviour of US police officers - part 2 - Page 54

gnome · 23rd May 2023, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

I'm conflicted. She knew the rules prior to purchasing the damn thing but in the end nobody stood to lose.

I'm not. When she offered to pay all expenses of backing out, that is taking proper responsibity. There was no vital public interest in killing that particular goat.

Also, the most egregious violation was the police turning over the animal to the other party before it could come to a proper hearing.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

bluesjnr · 24th May 2023, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

I'm not. When she offered to pay all expenses of backing out, that is taking proper responsibity. There was no vital public interest in killing that particular goat.

Also, the most egregious violation was the police turning over the animal to the other party before it could come to a proper hearing.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

My auction, my rules. Read 'em and don't make life hard for yourself.

But yeah, FFS lawmen and auctioneer, get some perspective.

TurkeysGhost · 24th May 2023, 05:06 AM

Kinda seems like any police department with a work load so light that they can go investigate a goat dispute is one that can probably stand to have their budget substantially slashed.

No real crime to look into that you need to kick in doors for what amounts to a small claims dispute? These cops either have terrible discretion, or way, way too much free time on their hands.

bruto · 24th May 2023, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

My auction, my rules. Read 'em and don't make life hard for yourself.

But yeah, FFS lawmen and auctioneer, get some perspective.

I think if someone in the transaction stood to lose something tangible, there would be some ambiguity, but as I recall from some previous discussion on this, the only real rationale here was a kind of life lesson for the kid, which I think came out quite wrong.

TurkeysGhost · 24th May 2023, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by bruto

I think if someone in the transaction stood to lose something tangible, there would be some ambiguity, but as I recall from some previous discussion on this, the only real rationale here was a kind of life lesson for the kid, which I think came out quite wrong.

Probably undermines the folksy spin these organizations are probably trying to put on the meat industry. I can't think of a better way to make a vegan for life than sending armed goons to rip a beloved animal from someone's hands to take to slaughter. Could not make the message "meat is violence" any more explicit.

TheGoldcountry · 24th May 2023, 08:09 AM

I understand the role of 4H- they are trying to teach kids the realities of raising animals for food. But that lesson had been taught- and she realized it wasn't for her. They took it upon themselves to show her and the world that "animals need to be killed!"

As soon as the family was willing to pay restitution, the matter should have been dropped. They were trying to make some kind of "point" and using the girl's pet (and it was, now, a pet) as the tool. They, of course, are the tools. Use it as a teaching moment if you want- "Look what happened here- don't become too attached to an animal!" Instead, they just came off as bullies.

Myriad · 24th May 2023, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by lomiller

Sheriff's deputies from Shasta County, California, Traveled 500 Miles To Seize Girl's Pet Goat for Slaughter

https://reason.com/2023/03/31/police...for-slaughter/

There's also a thread about that story here. The police have a relatively minor role in the dispute, given that the animal was reported to them as stolen property rather than the object of a claimed breach of contract.

JoeMorgue · 24th May 2023, 10:11 AM

Jacksonville man dies after being refused post-heart transplant medication while in jail.

Quote:

Dexter Barry waited 12 years to get a new heart. He saw dozens of doctors, had invasive procedures and moved states to survive. In 2020, his long wait paid off. His new heart allowed him to imagine a healthy life where he could revisit his passion for motorcycles and watch his children grow and flourish in their careers.

But in 2022, after a misdemeanor arrest kept him in jail for two days without his life-sustaining medication, his body rejected the heart.

Barry’s neighbor called 911 in November to complain that Barry, 54, had threatened to beat him up after a weeks-long fight over wifi access. A fight never occurred, but Barry was arrested on a simple assault charge.

Barry told Officer Jacob McKeon at least seven times that he needed to take his anti-rejection medications every day to survive, according to body camera footage that was reviewed by The Tributary. The next morning, according to the court transcript, Barry told Judge Gilbert Feltel the same.

“I am on medication,” Barry told the judge. “I just had a heart transplant, and I haven’t taken my medicine all day since I have been locked up, and I take rejection medicines for my heart so my heart won’t reject it, and I’m almost two years out.”

“OK,” Feltel responded.

The transcript from Dexter Barry’s first-appearance hearing shows him explaining why he needed heart-medication to a judge.

On Nov. 23, Barry died.

He never got his medication, according to his son and a lawyer representing his family. A pathologist hired by the family said he died after his body had rejected the heart he had waited so long for.

https://jaxtrib.org/2023/05/23/i-can...lant-medicine/

TurkeysGhost · 24th May 2023, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Jacksonville man dies after being refused post-heart transplant medication while in jail.

https://jaxtrib.org/2023/05/23/i-can...lant-medicine/

Jails refusing to dispense prescribed medicine and causing avoidable death or other serious health complications is an extremely common fact pattern in the US. Medical neglect is one of our country's favorite ways to torture and kill prisoners.

Checkmite · 24th May 2023, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

My auction, my rules. Read 'em and don't make life hard for yourself.

But yeah, FFS lawmen and auctioneer, get some perspective.

Even the winner of the auction had already agreed to let her keep the goat.

shemp · 24th May 2023, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Jacksonville man dies after being refused post-heart transplant medication while in jail.

https://jaxtrib.org/2023/05/23/i-can...lant-medicine/

Police don't give a **** whether you live or die. They know they'll never be held accountable in this case. The worst that can happen to them individually is that they get fired, and they'll just be rehired quickly somewhere else. But in my book, this was murder.

Edited to add: And, of course, he was Black. He might have gotten that medication if he was White.

quadraginta · 24th May 2023, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

Police don't give a **** whether you live or die. They know they'll never be held accountable in this case. The worst that can happen to them individually is that they get fired, and they'll just be rehired quickly somewhere else. But in my book, this was murder.

Edited to add: And, of course, he was Black. He might have gotten that medication if he was White.

Florida in particular.

By invitation.

And they'll get a signing bonus.

lomiller · 24th May 2023, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

I'm conflicted. She knew the rules prior to purchasing the damn thing but in the end nobody stood to lose.

It's worth noting that in California (and most other states) contracts with minors can more or less be voided at will if the minor changes their mind. This makes sense as minors probably don't understand the full consequences of the rules they are agreeing to.

arthwollipot · 24th May 2023, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost

Kinda seems like any police department with a work load so light that they can go investigate a goat dispute is one that can probably stand to have their budget substantially slashed.

No real crime to look into that you need to kick in doors for what amounts to a small claims dispute? These cops either have terrible discretion, or way, way too much free time on their hands.

You want to have idle officers, because when a disaster happens you want as many of them available to respond as you can. Balancing between sufficient overcapacity to deal with emergencies and a reasonable operating budget is a very difficult process, especially since the needs of both change constantly.

bluesjnr · 24th May 2023, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Even the winner of the auction had already agreed to let her keep the goat.

Not his auction, not his rules.

J. Macfarlane, livestock manager of the Shasta District Fair & Event Center, the state agency that runs the fair likes his rules. He called Long and told her that if she did not return Cedar, he would have her charged with felony grand theft.

jimbob · 25th May 2023, 02:05 AM

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/24/u...boy/index.html

Just another 11 yr old (black) boy who called the police during domestic violence against his mother, getting shot

Quote:

Murry said the officer who arrived at the home “had his gun drawn at the front door and asked those inside the home to come outside.” Murry said her son was shot coming around the corner of a hallway, into the living room.

“Once he came from around the corner, he got shot,” Murry said. “I cannot grasp why. The same cop that told him to come out of the house. (Aderrien) did, and he got shot. He kept asking, ‘Why did he shoot me? What did I do wrong?’” she said.

jimbob · 25th May 2023, 02:05 AM

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/24/u...boy/index.html

Just another 11 yr old (black) boy who called the police during domestic violence against his mother, getting shot

Quote:

Murry said the officer who arrived at the home “had his gun drawn at the front door and asked those inside the home to come outside.” Murry said her son was shot coming around the corner of a hallway, into the living room.

“Once he came from around the corner, he got shot,” Murry said. “I cannot grasp why. The same cop that told him to come out of the house. (Aderrien) did, and he got shot. He kept asking, ‘Why did he shoot me? What did I do wrong?’” she said.

shemp · 25th May 2023, 07:02 AM

3 former Mississippi police officers indicted for murder, manslaughter in death of Black man in custody

Quote:

Three former Jackson police officers were indicted this week on murder and manslaughter charges in connection with the death of Keith Murriel, a 41-year-old Black man who was pinned down and repeatedly shocked with stun guns during a New Year's Eve arrest. A Mississippi grand jury indicted two of the ex-officers on murder charges and the third on a manslaughter charge.

Officials in the state capital of Jackson released body camera footage Wednesday that showed then-officers Avery Willis, Kenya McCarty and James Land struggling to handcuff Keith Murriel as he was apparently stunned numerous times over 10 minutes.

The officers had tackled Murriel while arresting him for allegedly trespassing at a hotel shortly before midnight on Dec. 31, 2022, authorities said.

McCarty and Willis have been charged with second-degree murder, and Land with manslaughter, court records showed. All three were placed on administrative leave after the incident. McCarty was fired in February, and Willis and Land in April. Willis and Land were fired for a policy violation, along with Cazinova Reed, CBS affiliate WJTV reported.

Quote:

The video shows McCarty kneeling with her knee on Murriel's back before Murriel flips around, and the three officers attempt to lock his hands behind his back. The 41-year-old man is seen pleading with officers to stop shocking him with stun guns.

After handcuffing Murriel, officers then laid the man horizontally on the back seat of a patrol vehicle, the video showed. He died after being taken into custody.

Willis' body camera footage showed him talking to another officer after the encounter.

"I hope (he) is asleep. Because if he's asleep, it'll be a good ride," Willis said, using a racial slur to refer to Murriel. "It was funny seeing (his) feet in the air."

pgwenthold · 25th May 2023, 10:00 AM

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/stat...26190509432834

Quote:

An Arizona man who called Border patrol over undocumented immigrants on his property was shot and killed by Border patrol agents

pgwenthold · 25th May 2023, 10:01 AM

Sorry, dupe

carlosy · 30th May 2023, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Florida cop charged after tasing man at gas station, setting him ablaze

Florida sheriff’s deputy has been criminally charged for firing a Taser at a man pumping gas, igniting a fireball that burned nearly three-quarters of his body...

...

Baerga suffered second- and third-degree burns over about 75% of his body, according to his lawyer, Mark NeJame, who said the only parts that weren’t scorched were his masked face, gloved hands and his feet.

His legal team said he has racked up $7 million in medical expenses, which they plan to recoup from the sheriff’s office, according to the news outlet.

“They’re going to cost the taxpayers in Osceola County millions,” NeJame said. “There should be consequences, because how else do we stop this type of activity for happening again?”

https://nypost.com/2023/05/26/florid...-setting-fire/

TurkeysGhost · 30th May 2023, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/stat...26190509432834

Stories like this make you want to believe in cosmic justice.

lomiller · 31st May 2023, 08:14 PM

A few videos that shows the day to day violations of people rights police seemingly commit on a regular basis. Not the major crimes, just the routine ignorance of the law and the way they try and circumvent peoples rights.

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bluesjnr · 31st May 2023, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by lomiller

A few videos that shows the day to day violations of people rights police seemingly commit on a regular basis. Not the major crimes, just the routine ignorance of the law and the way they try and circumvent peoples rights.

All but one of your links are not working. Sorry, I'm too lazy to fix 'em!

shemp · 1st June 2023, 06:27 AM

I find them to all work.

Trebuchet · 1st June 2023, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/stat...26190509432834

Quote:

An Arizona man who called Border patrol over undocumented immigrants on his property was shot and killed by Border patrol agents

Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost

Stories like this make you want to believe in cosmic justice.

Victim was Native American. Agents saw a brown guy coming out of the house where they expected a white guy and figured he was fair game.

lobosrul5 · 1st June 2023, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by lomiller

A few videos that shows the day to day violations of people rights police seemingly commit on a regular basis. Not the major crimes, just the routine ignorance of the law and the way they try and circumvent peoples rights.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

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I mean they aren't "major" as in no one was killed or crippled. But, I do consider kidnapping and false arrest (the WV one is that for sure), and assault with a deadly weapon (tasering without justification), to be very serious crimes. If the FBI would arrest these cops, and the US justice department prosecute them, this **** would stop in a big ass hurry. Its the only way things are going to change. Right now we expect police departments to investigate themselves and its just not going to happen.

bluesjnr · 2nd June 2023, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by shemp

I find them to all work.

As do I.... now. Don't know why only the first one played and the rest just showed the classic"error" message orginally?

jimbob · 2nd June 2023, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

As do I.... now. Don't know why only the first one played and the rest just showed the classic"error" message orginally?

Look at the bottom of the post

Quote:

Last edited by Darat; Yesterday at 11:25 AM. Reason: Correcting yt tag

lomiller · 3rd June 2023, 04:47 PM

Another one...

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lomiller · 4th June 2023, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

Civil rights lawsuit to follow criminal case in death of Christian Glass

This ended up costing Colorado taxpayers $19 million

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...ion-settlement

shemp · 4th June 2023, 02:20 PM

Yep, the taxpayers always end up paying for the actions of these ******* cops.

TurkeysGhost · 5th June 2023, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by shemp

Yep, the taxpayers always end up paying for the actions of these ******* cops.

I mean, the public is ultimately those responsible for allowing these police to continue to operate this way. Cops put a fat thumb on the political scales, but ultimately a sufficiently animated public could reject the status quo and actually rein in their police departments if they wanted to.

Paying out damages is just the cost of doing business.

gnome · 5th June 2023, 07:14 AM

Far more effective than large payouts to supposedly generate public pressure would be things like:

- Altering "qualified immunity" to be not so much an impenetrable shield.
- Making it so if an officer was found to deliberately and significantly abuse their power, they can no longer be employed in law enforcement.
- Ditto for intentional and material falsehoods on police reports.

You can throw all the training sessions you want, but if they have no teeth they accomplish little.

Delphic Oracle · 6th June 2023, 09:51 AM

I still maintain that if the FOP was made the sole liable party for court awarded damages, you'd actually see self-policing.

That last settlement shaving another $80/mo. from your retirement figures creates a natural motive to suppress or remove the "bad apples."

lomiller · 6th June 2023, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

I still maintain that if the FOP was made the sole liable party for court awarded damages, you'd actually see self-policing.

That last settlement shaving another $80/mo. from your retirement figures creates a natural motive to suppress or remove the "bad apples."

Hmm

I'm inclined to say it isn't really the officers fault because it's not really a case of a few "bad apples". There is clearly a systematic issue with how police are being taught to do their jobs. If you watch video's of police interactions the same basic pattern emerges almost every time, this isn't something that will come about because you have a few bad apples, it's something that comes about because police are being trained to operate this way.

Some examples
- look for any excuse to demand ID even when they are not entitled to. Usually this amount to some version of "I think you are suspicious"
- treat refusal to give them your ID as a) suspicious activity, and b) obstruction, even though it's neither.
- look for any excuse to detain people without arresting them, even if they have no lawful reason to detain that person. Usually this amount to some version of "I think you are suspicious"
- use "officer safety" as an excuse for handcuffing and being physical with detainees, even when such actions are clearly not required.
- Anything other then complete submission is treated as resisting arrest, justifying assault even when there is no cause to arrest or even detain the person.
- demand people answer questions even when they have no legal requirement to do so.
- treat refusal to answer questions as a) suspicious activity, and b) obstruction, even though it's neither.
-claim to be "investigating" even when demanding things like ID that have nothing to do with the "suspicious activity" they are investigating. Eg. once you can confirm someone is stopped for a valid reason you don't need to to see their ID to investigate why they stopped there.

What it all amounts to is exerting control over people and looking for an excuse to demand their ID so you can run it though police databases, even though stopping people and demanding their papers is a blatant violation of peoples constitutional rights. And, like I said the pattern is consistent enough that these are clearly things they are being trained to do, not just the result of a few bad apples.

If the officers are being trained to do this, the responsibility really does fall on the government that is training them and ultimately the taxpayers that vote for that government.

lomiller · 9th June 2023, 04:49 PM

Another one here

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The commenter makes the point that the "techniques" used in this stop are part of the training for Kansas State Police. That is

- follow someone
- look for a reason to pull them over, even just a going slightly over the speed limit for a short time,
- extend the stop or conclude the stop but instead of telling them the stop is over they keep it going as a consensual stop
- attempt to either gain access to search the vehicle or just hold the person an bring in dogs to sniff around it

Checkmite · 10th June 2023, 11:14 PM

We have a quartet of officers being fired from the San Jose PD for various acts of genius, such as

Quote:

Detective Ismael Lemus was arrested last year on charges of using a retired patrol car as his personal vehicle without permission. Police sources with direct knowledge of the situation said he is one of the four officers who received termination papers this week.

A second officer is accused of running the license plate of a woman he met at a community event and then later showing up at her door.

The last two officers responded to a domestic violence call and left without making any arrests, sources said. They are facing potential termination because the suspect in that case returned later in the evening and killed the victim.

TurkeysGhost · 12th June 2023, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

We have a quartet of officers being fired from the San Jose PD for various acts of genius, such as

The first example is clearly a case of criminal conduct and probably ought to be treated more harshly than just an HR issue. The second one is arguably criminal as well. Maybe it's too soon to jump to conclusions, but there's a fine tradition of our society treating police criminal acts as simply workplace discipline issues rather than those deserving prosecution.

TurkeysGhost · 13th June 2023, 05:50 AM

Cop who dragged a Philadelphia woman out of her car and beat her during the police riots of 2020 found not guilty, in part because the judge couldn't be sure that this particular cop was one of the several cops who actually struck her, or was just present for the mob beating.

Quote:

Municipal Court Judge Francis W. McCloskey Jr. said at the conclusion of a one-day bench trial that prosecutors had not presented enough evidence to show that then-Officer Darren Kardos struck Rickia Young during the chaotic incident. The episode was captured on video, which was played for the judge, but it also involved scores of other officers who were never charged, and Young did not testify — something the judge said was a significant hurdle in proving that Kardos hit her, or acted in a manner that amounted to a crime.

“There is no on-scene identifying witness,” McCloskey said in describing why he cleared Kardos of charges including simple assault and reckless endangerment.

Prosecutors had argued that Kardos “crossed the line” as he and the other officers sought to regain control of the area around 52nd and Chestnut Streets on Oct. 27, 2020. Protests had erupted there hours after other officers nearby fatally shot 27-year-old Walter Wallace Jr., a Black man who relatives said was experiencing a mental health crisis and had lunged toward police while wielding a knife.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/darren...-20230612.html

23rd May 2023, 11:07 PM	#2121
gnome Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 14,303	Originally Posted by bluesjnr I'm conflicted. She knew the rules prior to purchasing the damn thing but in the end nobody stood to lose. I'm not. When she offered to pay all expenses of backing out, that is taking proper responsibity. There was no vital public interest in killing that particular goat. Also, the most egregious violation was the police turning over the animal to the other party before it could come to a proper hearing. Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
	__________________

24th May 2023, 04:58 AM	#2122
bluesjnr Professional Nemesis for Hire Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Home. Posts: 11,537	Originally Posted by gnome I'm not. When she offered to pay all expenses of backing out, that is taking proper responsibity. There was no vital public interest in killing that particular goat. Also, the most egregious violation was the police turning over the animal to the other party before it could come to a proper hearing. Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk My auction, my rules. Read 'em and don't make life hard for yourself. But yeah, FFS lawmen and auctioneer, get some perspective.
	__________________ "OTP? I don' need no steenkin' OTP!"

24th May 2023, 05:06 AM	#2123
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 34,633	Kinda seems like any police department with a work load so light that they can go investigate a goat dispute is one that can probably stand to have their budget substantially slashed. No real crime to look into that you need to kick in doors for what amounts to a small claims dispute? These cops either have terrible discretion, or way, way too much free time on their hands.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey Last edited by TurkeysGhost; 24th May 2023 at 05:07 AM.

24th May 2023, 07:53 AM	#2124
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 35,364	Originally Posted by bluesjnr My auction, my rules. Read 'em and don't make life hard for yourself. But yeah, FFS lawmen and auctioneer, get some perspective. I think if someone in the transaction stood to lose something tangible, there would be some ambiguity, but as I recall from some previous discussion on this, the only real rationale here was a kind of life lesson for the kid, which I think came out quite wrong.
	__________________ Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi)

24th May 2023, 08:04 AM	#2125
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 34,633	Originally Posted by bruto I think if someone in the transaction stood to lose something tangible, there would be some ambiguity, but as I recall from some previous discussion on this, the only real rationale here was a kind of life lesson for the kid, which I think came out quite wrong. Probably undermines the folksy spin these organizations are probably trying to put on the meat industry. I can't think of a better way to make a vegan for life than sending armed goons to rip a beloved animal from someone's hands to take to slaughter. Could not make the message "meat is violence" any more explicit.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

24th May 2023, 08:09 AM	#2126
TheGoldcountry Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 7,918	I understand the role of 4H- they are trying to teach kids the realities of raising animals for food. But that lesson had been taught- and she realized it wasn't for her. They took it upon themselves to show her and the world that "animals need to be killed!" As soon as the family was willing to pay restitution, the matter should have been dropped. They were trying to make some kind of "point" and using the girl's pet (and it was, now, a pet) as the tool. They, of course, are the tools. Use it as a teaching moment if you want- "Look what happened here- don't become too attached to an animal!" Instead, they just came off as bullies.
	__________________ I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten I sometimes think the Bible was inspired by Satan to make God look bad. And then it backfired on Him when He underestimated the stupidity of religious ideologues. -MontagK505

24th May 2023, 08:36 AM	#2127
Myriad The Clarity Is Devastating Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Betwixt Posts: 20,574	Originally Posted by lomiller Sheriff's deputies from Shasta County, California, Traveled 500 Miles To Seize Girl's Pet Goat for Slaughter https://reason.com/2023/03/31/police...for-slaughter/ There's also a thread about that story here. The police have a relatively minor role in the dispute, given that the animal was reported to them as stolen property rather than the object of a claimed breach of contract.
	__________________ "*Except Myriad. Even Cthulhu would give him a pat on the head and an ice cream and send him to the movies while he ended the rest of the world." - Foster Zygote

24th May 2023, 10:11 AM	#2128
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 45,357	Jacksonville man dies after being refused post-heart transplant medication while in jail. Quote: Dexter Barry waited 12 years to get a new heart. He saw dozens of doctors, had invasive procedures and moved states to survive. In 2020, his long wait paid off. His new heart allowed him to imagine a healthy life where he could revisit his passion for motorcycles and watch his children grow and flourish in their careers. But in 2022, after a misdemeanor arrest kept him in jail for two days without his life-sustaining medication, his body rejected the heart. Barry’s neighbor called 911 in November to complain that Barry, 54, had threatened to beat him up after a weeks-long fight over wifi access. A fight never occurred, but Barry was arrested on a simple assault charge. Barry told Officer Jacob McKeon at least seven times that he needed to take his anti-rejection medications every day to survive, according to body camera footage that was reviewed by The Tributary. The next morning, according to the court transcript, Barry told Judge Gilbert Feltel the same. “I am on medication,” Barry told the judge. “I just had a heart transplant, and I haven’t taken my medicine all day since I have been locked up, and I take rejection medicines for my heart so my heart won’t reject it, and I’m almost two years out.” “OK,” Feltel responded. The transcript from Dexter Barry’s first-appearance hearing shows him explaining why he needed heart-medication to a judge. On Nov. 23, Barry died. He never got his medication, according to his son and a lawyer representing his family. A pathologist hired by the family said he died after his body had rejected the heart he had waited so long for. https://jaxtrib.org/2023/05/23/i-can...lant-medicine/
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

24th May 2023, 11:30 AM	#2129
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 34,633	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Jacksonville man dies after being refused post-heart transplant medication while in jail. https://jaxtrib.org/2023/05/23/i-can...lant-medicine/ Jails refusing to dispense prescribed medicine and causing avoidable death or other serious health complications is an extremely common fact pattern in the US. Medical neglect is one of our country's favorite ways to torture and kill prisoners.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

24th May 2023, 12:34 PM	#2130
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 28,431	Originally Posted by bluesjnr My auction, my rules. Read 'em and don't make life hard for yourself. But yeah, FFS lawmen and auctioneer, get some perspective. Even the winner of the auction had already agreed to let her keep the goat.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

24th May 2023, 12:47 PM	#2131
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Where the Old Man of the Mountain used to stand Posts: 56,733	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Jacksonville man dies after being refused post-heart transplant medication while in jail. https://jaxtrib.org/2023/05/23/i-can...lant-medicine/ Police don't give a **** whether you live or die. They know they'll never be held accountable in this case. The worst that can happen to them individually is that they get fired, and they'll just be rehired quickly somewhere else. But in my book, this was murder. Edited to add: And, of course, he was Black. He might have gotten that medication if he was White.
	__________________ "An empty void is growing between his ears. Distant screams can be heard echoing in the darkness." -- JihadJane UP YOURS! Last edited by shemp; 24th May 2023 at 12:51 PM.

24th May 2023, 01:05 PM	#2132
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 27,276	Originally Posted by shemp Police don't give a **** whether you live or die. They know they'll never be held accountable in this case. The worst that can happen to them individually is that they get fired, and they'll just be rehired quickly somewhere else. But in my book, this was murder. Edited to add: And, of course, he was Black. He might have gotten that medication if he was White. Florida in particular. By invitation. And they'll get a signing bonus.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

24th May 2023, 03:44 PM	#2133
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 13,200	Originally Posted by bluesjnr I'm conflicted. She knew the rules prior to purchasing the damn thing but in the end nobody stood to lose. It's worth noting that in California (and most other states) contracts with minors can more or less be voided at will if the minor changes their mind. This makes sense as minors probably don't understand the full consequences of the rules they are agreeing to.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

24th May 2023, 06:26 PM	#2134
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,520	Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost Kinda seems like any police department with a work load so light that they can go investigate a goat dispute is one that can probably stand to have their budget substantially slashed. No real crime to look into that you need to kick in doors for what amounts to a small claims dispute? These cops either have terrible discretion, or way, way too much free time on their hands. You want to have idle officers, because when a disaster happens you want as many of them available to respond as you can. Balancing between sufficient overcapacity to deal with emergencies and a reasonable operating budget is a very difficult process, especially since the needs of both change constantly.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

24th May 2023, 10:40 PM	#2135
bluesjnr Professional Nemesis for Hire Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Home. Posts: 11,537	Originally Posted by Checkmite Even the winner of the auction had already agreed to let her keep the goat. Not his auction, not his rules. J. Macfarlane, livestock manager of the Shasta District Fair & Event Center, the state agency that runs the fair likes his rules. He called Long and told her that if she did not return Cedar, he would have her charged with felony grand theft.
	__________________ "OTP? I don' need no steenkin' OTP!"

25th May 2023, 02:05 AM	#2136
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 31,011	https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/24/u...boy/index.html Just another 11 yr old (black) boy who called the police during domestic violence against his mother, getting shot Quote: Murry said the officer who arrived at the home “had his gun drawn at the front door and asked those inside the home to come outside.” Murry said her son was shot coming around the corner of a hallway, into the living room. “Once he came from around the corner, he got shot,” Murry said. “I cannot grasp why. The same cop that told him to come out of the house. (Aderrien) did, and he got shot. He kept asking, ‘Why did he shoot me? What did I do wrong?’” she said.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

25th May 2023, 02:05 AM	#2137
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 31,011	https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/24/u...boy/index.html Just another 11 yr old (black) boy who called the police during domestic violence against his mother, getting shot Quote: Murry said the officer who arrived at the home “had his gun drawn at the front door and asked those inside the home to come outside.” Murry said her son was shot coming around the corner of a hallway, into the living room. “Once he came from around the corner, he got shot,” Murry said. “I cannot grasp why. The same cop that told him to come out of the house. (Aderrien) did, and he got shot. He kept asking, ‘Why did he shoot me? What did I do wrong?’” she said.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

25th May 2023, 07:02 AM	#2138
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Where the Old Man of the Mountain used to stand Posts: 56,733	3 former Mississippi police officers indicted for murder, manslaughter in death of Black man in custody Quote: Three former Jackson police officers were indicted this week on murder and manslaughter charges in connection with the death of Keith Murriel, a 41-year-old Black man who was pinned down and repeatedly shocked with stun guns during a New Year's Eve arrest. A Mississippi grand jury indicted two of the ex-officers on murder charges and the third on a manslaughter charge. Officials in the state capital of Jackson released body camera footage Wednesday that showed then-officers Avery Willis, Kenya McCarty and James Land struggling to handcuff Keith Murriel as he was apparently stunned numerous times over 10 minutes. The officers had tackled Murriel while arresting him for allegedly trespassing at a hotel shortly before midnight on Dec. 31, 2022, authorities said. McCarty and Willis have been charged with second-degree murder, and Land with manslaughter, court records showed. All three were placed on administrative leave after the incident. McCarty was fired in February, and Willis and Land in April. Willis and Land were fired for a policy violation, along with Cazinova Reed, CBS affiliate WJTV reported. Quote: The video shows McCarty kneeling with her knee on Murriel's back before Murriel flips around, and the three officers attempt to lock his hands behind his back. The 41-year-old man is seen pleading with officers to stop shocking him with stun guns. After handcuffing Murriel, officers then laid the man horizontally on the back seat of a patrol vehicle, the video showed. He died after being taken into custody. Willis' body camera footage showed him talking to another officer after the encounter. "I hope (he) is asleep. Because if he's asleep, it'll be a good ride," Willis said, using a racial slur to refer to Murriel. "It was funny seeing (his) feet in the air."
	__________________ "An empty void is growing between his ears. Distant screams can be heard echoing in the darkness." -- JihadJane UP YOURS!

25th May 2023, 10:00 AM	#2139
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 21,258	https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/stat...26190509432834 Quote: An Arizona man who called Border patrol over undocumented immigrants on his property was shot and killed by Border patrol agents
	__________________ "As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets

25th May 2023, 10:01 AM	#2140
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 21,258	Sorry, dupe
	__________________ "As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets Last edited by pgwenthold; 25th May 2023 at 10:04 AM.

30th May 2023, 05:43 AM	#2141
carlosy Muse Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 588	Quote: Florida cop charged after tasing man at gas station, setting him ablaze Florida sheriff’s deputy has been criminally charged for firing a Taser at a man pumping gas, igniting a fireball that burned nearly three-quarters of his body... ... Baerga suffered second- and third-degree burns over about 75% of his body, according to his lawyer, Mark NeJame, who said the only parts that weren’t scorched were his masked face, gloved hands and his feet. His legal team said he has racked up $7 million in medical expenses, which they plan to recoup from the sheriff’s office, according to the news outlet. “They’re going to cost the taxpayers in Osceola County millions,” NeJame said. “There should be consequences, because how else do we stop this type of activity for happening again?” https://nypost.com/2023/05/26/florid...-setting-fire/
carlosy Muse Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 588

30th May 2023, 05:44 AM	#2142
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 34,633	Originally Posted by pgwenthold https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/stat...26190509432834 Stories like this make you want to believe in cosmic justice.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

31st May 2023, 11:03 PM	#2144
bluesjnr Professional Nemesis for Hire Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Home. Posts: 11,537	Originally Posted by lomiller A few videos that shows the day to day violations of people rights police seemingly commit on a regular basis. Not the major crimes, just the routine ignorance of the law and the way they try and circumvent peoples rights. All but one of your links are not working. Sorry, I'm too lazy to fix 'em!
	__________________ "OTP? I don' need no steenkin' OTP!"

1st June 2023, 06:27 AM	#2145
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Where the Old Man of the Mountain used to stand Posts: 56,733	I find them to all work.
	__________________ "An empty void is growing between his ears. Distant screams can be heard echoing in the darkness." -- JihadJane UP YOURS!

1st June 2023, 09:32 AM	#2146
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 37,712	Originally Posted by pgwenthold https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/stat...26190509432834 Quote: An Arizona man who called Border patrol over undocumented immigrants on his property was shot and killed by Border patrol agents Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost Stories like this make you want to believe in cosmic justice. Victim was Native American. Agents saw a brown guy coming out of the house where they expected a white guy and figured he was fair game.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

2nd June 2023, 12:07 AM	#2148
bluesjnr Professional Nemesis for Hire Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Home. Posts: 11,537	Originally Posted by shemp I find them to all work. As do I.... now. Don't know why only the first one played and the rest just showed the classic"error" message orginally?
	__________________ "OTP? I don' need no steenkin' OTP!"

2nd June 2023, 12:18 AM	#2149
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 31,011	Originally Posted by bluesjnr As do I.... now. Don't know why only the first one played and the rest just showed the classic"error" message orginally? Look at the bottom of the post Quote: Last edited by Darat; Yesterday at 11:25 AM. Reason: Correcting yt tag
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

4th June 2023, 01:19 PM	#2151
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 13,200	Originally Posted by shemp Civil rights lawsuit to follow criminal case in death of Christian Glass This ended up costing Colorado taxpayers $19 million https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...ion-settlement
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

4th June 2023, 02:20 PM	#2152
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Where the Old Man of the Mountain used to stand Posts: 56,733	Yep, the taxpayers always end up paying for the actions of these ******* cops.
	__________________ "An empty void is growing between his ears. Distant screams can be heard echoing in the darkness." -- JihadJane UP YOURS!

5th June 2023, 04:32 AM	#2153
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 34,633	Originally Posted by shemp Yep, the taxpayers always end up paying for the actions of these ******* cops. I mean, the public is ultimately those responsible for allowing these police to continue to operate this way. Cops put a fat thumb on the political scales, but ultimately a sufficiently animated public could reject the status quo and actually rein in their police departments if they wanted to. Paying out damages is just the cost of doing business.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

5th June 2023, 07:14 AM	#2154
gnome Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 14,303	Far more effective than large payouts to supposedly generate public pressure would be things like: - Altering "qualified immunity" to be not so much an impenetrable shield. - Making it so if an officer was found to deliberately and significantly abuse their power, they can no longer be employed in law enforcement. - Ditto for intentional and material falsehoods on police reports. You can throw all the training sessions you want, but if they have no teeth they accomplish little.
	__________________

6th June 2023, 09:51 AM	#2155
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 6,398	I still maintain that if the FOP was made the sole liable party for court awarded damages, you'd actually see self-policing. That last settlement shaving another $80/mo. from your retirement figures creates a natural motive to suppress or remove the "bad apples."

6th June 2023, 10:48 AM	#2156
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 13,200	Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle I still maintain that if the FOP was made the sole liable party for court awarded damages, you'd actually see self-policing. That last settlement shaving another $80/mo. from your retirement figures creates a natural motive to suppress or remove the "bad apples." Hmm I'm inclined to say it isn't really the officers fault because it's not really a case of a few "bad apples". There is clearly a systematic issue with how police are being taught to do their jobs. If you watch video's of police interactions the same basic pattern emerges almost every time, this isn't something that will come about because you have a few bad apples, it's something that comes about because police are being trained to operate this way. Some examples - look for any excuse to demand ID even when they are not entitled to. Usually this amount to some version of "I think you are suspicious" - treat refusal to give them your ID as a) suspicious activity, and b) obstruction, even though it's neither. - look for any excuse to detain people without arresting them, even if they have no lawful reason to detain that person. Usually this amount to some version of "I think you are suspicious" - use "officer safety" as an excuse for handcuffing and being physical with detainees, even when such actions are clearly not required. - Anything other then complete submission is treated as resisting arrest, justifying assault even when there is no cause to arrest or even detain the person. - demand people answer questions even when they have no legal requirement to do so. - treat refusal to answer questions as a) suspicious activity, and b) obstruction, even though it's neither. -claim to be "investigating" even when demanding things like ID that have nothing to do with the "suspicious activity" they are investigating. Eg. once you can confirm someone is stopped for a valid reason you don't need to to see their ID to investigate why they stopped there. What it all amounts to is exerting control over people and looking for an excuse to demand their ID so you can run it though police databases, even though stopping people and demanding their papers is a blatant violation of peoples constitutional rights. And, like I said the pattern is consistent enough that these are clearly things they are being trained to do, not just the result of a few bad apples. If the officers are being trained to do this, the responsibility really does fall on the government that is training them and ultimately the taxpayers that vote for that government.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

10th June 2023, 11:14 PM	#2158
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 28,431	We have a quartet of officers being fired from the San Jose PD for various acts of genius, such as Quote: Detective Ismael Lemus was arrested last year on charges of using a retired patrol car as his personal vehicle without permission. Police sources with direct knowledge of the situation said he is one of the four officers who received termination papers this week. A second officer is accused of running the license plate of a woman he met at a community event and then later showing up at her door. The last two officers responded to a domestic violence call and left without making any arrests, sources said. They are facing potential termination because the suspect in that case returned later in the evening and killed the victim.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

12th June 2023, 04:22 AM	#2159
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 34,633	Originally Posted by Checkmite We have a quartet of officers being fired from the San Jose PD for various acts of genius, such as The first example is clearly a case of criminal conduct and probably ought to be treated more harshly than just an HR issue. The second one is arguably criminal as well. Maybe it's too soon to jump to conclusions, but there's a fine tradition of our society treating police criminal acts as simply workplace discipline issues rather than those deserving prosecution.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey Last edited by TurkeysGhost; 12th June 2023 at 04:38 AM.